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Your user name isn't "boothorbustunlessIgetintoCBS" is it??
Go with your gut!!
Good call. I was pretty dead-set on Booth, also got waitlisted, but ended up going in a different direction after some consideration.
Congrats! Can't go wrong with either school. The only distinct advantage of CBS would be the location, so it will be easier to network and do interviews. Either way, they are both awesome for IBD.
The location in NYC can be a curse as well, especially for someone looking to do IBD. It basically means that your networking/recruiting will be nonstop -- you'll simply never get a break.
If you want to live and work in Chicago, pick Booth.
If you want to live and work in New York, pick Columbia. It's going to be a hard choice though. Personally, my family is from the city, and since I'm close to them, I'd pick Columbia for anything besides HBS or Wharton. (I would find it hard to go to Stanford.)
Columbia has a number of regional advantages for NYC; whether that gives you an absolute advantage over Chicago for banking in Manhattan is a bit more debatable. Chicago has a reputation for taking a more quantitative approach to problems and doing things differently than the Northeastern schools.
Chicago is a bit of an outlyer in the M7 in terms of culture. It is more conservative but in a nonconformist kinda way. It produces graduates who are sometimes a little geeky and who usually do not take themselves very seriously. And despite these handicaps, then they seem to stumble into roles as CEOs, portfolio managers, and nobel prize winners, often trying to play it off as some Mr. Magoo-like event that happened by accident. This drives coastal folks crazy, and this culture attracts a different set and culture of MBA students.
Columbia on the other hand is a much more classical M7 school that will give you a much more classical northeastern pedigree. It produces a lot of CEOs and successful bankers. But there is this sense that seems to pervade the school that it stands in the shadow of Harvard and Wharton, and that can give some folks a chip on their shoulder.
My personal choice would be Booth over Columbia, probably over the rest of the M7 too, but that's the kind of person I am. I drive a rusty Honda. I laugh when I watch Rodney Dangerfield driving over a golf course while some angry Bostonian shouts curses at him. I read more greek myths about hubris than arete. I believe in a world where the first will be last and the last will be first. I don't worry too much about graduating incomes because I know most of it is geographical PPP more than anything else. I enjoy the fact that I think differently than everyone else, and I wear my odd quirks with dignity and pride, along with a wry grin.
For someone like me, Chicago is the obvious choice; it's the only school in the M7 with a culture that fits. For a typical New Yorker, it's a bit more complicated, and for many Northeasterners, CBS is the obvious choice.
Visit both campuses and trust your gut. Think about who you are, what your values are, and whether you want any of that to be different in two years. And be happy. Getting off Booth's waitlist and having to choose between it and Columbia is a high-quality problem.
i like this
Very well put IP, thanks for the insight and perspective. +SB for you
I would definitely go for Booth unless you had to be in New York.
I might just be meeting the wrong kids, but I have been seriously underwhelmed by the students at/from CBS. They have been less bright than people from the other M7s (is Columbia even considered M7 anymore?) and have worse social skills/EQ than any group of relatively accomplished people I have ever met. I have been seriously impressed by Booth people, and would very likely have chosen Booth over Wharton if I didn't need to be on the east coast for family reasons.
Really? I have not been less impressed by columbia than booth/kellogg/sloan. I think each school has its strengths and unique culture, but honestly i just don't see a big difference in terms of caliber of students. After HBS/Stanford and Wharton to a slightly lesser extent, the rest of the M7 is pretty comparable.
Maybe it's an irrational reaction (and certainly based on too small a sample size).
when I was applying, something I appreciated at Wharton (despite the commonly held opinion that its students are prone to douchiness) was that the students seemed confident enough in their own intelligence and abilities and in those of their classmates that they could more easily be collaborative and not engage in silly pissing contests over everything. I got much of the same sense from Booth. The Columbia students I have met have seemed less confident and thus more prone to a kind of petty sharkiness. Even those students at CBS who I think very highly of have remarked on this shortcoming in their community.
No doubt much of this could be off-base, and perhaps, even if its all true, Columbia's relative advantages in New York finance may outweigh the negatives.
for ibanking, you cannot really go wrong either way. One thing that might help is that you need to less off campus recruiting here at Booth (I am a student), relative to the networking when living in New York - could be good or bad - if you have a finance background, it is probably extraneous networking. if you are a career switcher, it might make more sense to network and try to add a personal touch to the interviewing process.
Also - recruiting for NY from Booth is pretty easy, not sure if the coverse is true though (lots of the Chicago offices basically come to Booth first, then Kellogg for finance related positions)
let me know if you have other questions.
also to add . i dont' know why this happened, but one of my mentors (he was from CBS) counseled me to take Booth when I was talking to him about the schools I applied to.
Not sure why - he is doing pretty well in banking coming out of CBS
Booth hands down if you want to do IBD.
Yes, Columbia is in NYC, but that also means significantly more networking since you are right there.
Booth and Wharton are the two best finance schools in the world. If you want to do banking, this should be an easy decision. Go to the better school which also happens to kill it in IBD.
CBS for IBD, Chicago for IM
http://poetsandquants.com/2011/11/16/mckinsey-doubles-mba-hires-at-duke…
to discount all you haters saying chicago over columbia for ibd
Based on your criteria, Chicago Booth is the obvious choice.
Seeing CBS in a more positive light while you were WL'd was just rationalization and emotion-management in case you had to go to CBS. Everyone does it, but best to be aware of it. It's clear that Booth is the one you wanted. They want you now. Go for it.
What? No. Chicago is 1160 and Columbia is around 550 per class with 150 for j term, they're the same size classes. You should know this lol
So not "twice as big" but nearly 40% larger.
the j termers arent going for banking theyre entrepreneurs or consultants going back. NEXT ARGUMENT?!
BTW - aren't you going to Yale? Why so defensive of CBS?
Edit: I just noticed that Citi and GS are the only banks on that list with a material difference in the number of hires. Not exactly irrefutable evidence that CBS is far superior.
ill agree there are other intangibles and that if you lived in nyc always then booth would be more fun and different since youd experience a new city, the curriculum at booth is more fun and the facilities are better. however, columbia is definitely considerably stronger for IBD -- maybe on par with wharton in terms of recruiting. anyone who would say chicago is above columbia for IBD is off. dont know how much the ranking matters for IBD seeing as everyone will be coming from top 15 schools, youll have people from darden johnson etc in your class as well as the HBS and wharton people
im not defensive of CBS im playing devils advocate and pointing out everyone saying that chicago>CBS for investment banking is wrong so you can make a more well informed decision.
if you want to do IBD youre pretty much married to nyc unless youre doing energy in NYC or tech in san fran (some retail/consumer groups there too i heard)
sure but for the most part if you want to do M&A im semi doubting their heads for M&A are in chicago or the groups that you want to focus on.
and why do you want to go to a MM if youre paying top dollar for an mba?
There are things about boutique/MM that appeal to me - less bureaucracy, flat structure, ability to more quickly carve out a niche/expertise. I'm not really looking to do 2 years then jump to PE, so the BB brand matters less to me than it does to undergrads for example.
Anyway - I hear your arguments and i think they have some validity for the most part, it's really just a question of degree of difference between the two and weighing each of the factors. I'm definitely not complaining about having to make the decision.
man, the difference between both schools are very slim. However, you should not look into IBD recruitment stats to make a decision. The fact is that if you are capable of landing an IBD gig out of CBS, then there is no reason why you couldn't land one out of Booth,
So you have to use other factors to decide: 1. Five years from now, someone asks you where you went to school. What brand would make you happier. Some people dont care about this. I do. (for me in this category Columbia is the winner) 2. Any significant difference in curriculum? (I think Booth is better, but some might argue otherwise) 3. quality of life. After all you will spend 2 years there. Where do you think you will enjoy more your time. Booth's students seem nicer and with less of an inferiority complex but campus location sucks.
After going through this process I realized that I care very much about point 1. You will learn pretty much the same in all M7 schools. Some are more rigorous than others but between Booth and CBS there isn't much difference. When people ask me where I am going I cant help it but to answer with a big smile because I feel happy and proud of where I am going. I THINK in your case I would pick Columbia for the brand recognition.
I know a few that applied to CBS and they all had complains about the admission office and stuff like that. I must say that I do feel CBS is a "machine" that produces Branded MBAs and it doesn't care much about their students. Hwever, I would still pick CBS.
(disclaimer I applied to Booth and did not apply to CBS due to their crappy loan policy for int'ls). Attending MIT this fall :)
I was lucky enough to be surrounded by people from different M7 schools when I was making my decision. Got waitlisted at both schools I applied to, and had to decide where to use my silver bullet (Director reaching out on my behalf) - couldn't do both.
Looked around and asked myself who I wanted to be more like as a manager, partner, etc - think it's a great way, in addition to those outlined above, to make your decision.
There's no need to slice and dice the stats. Both programs are feeders for IB, both are good enough to get you interviews at any and every bulge bracket bank in New York and elsewhere. Neither school has a distinct advantage over the other (or any other top 10 school). Once you get into any top school it's just up to you to dedicate yourself to your goal and actually get the job. Go wherever you feel most comfortable. For you it's Chicago.
Aren't they pretty much equal in NYC IBD placement? I'd choose depending on where I'd like to live for 2 years -- New York vs Chicago.
Agree with some of the other sentiments here. A slight numbers advantage in placement for CBS means very little when both place so many people each year. Go where you think you have the best chance to succeed as a person, learn a lot, and meet the people you want in your network for the rest of your career. Both are great names, but if one name carries more weight in your eyes like someone said, then that could be a differentiator too.
I would go with Booth if I were you, simply because you mentioned that you would like to be away from NY for a couple of years, you like the faculty, curriculum, and facilities better at Booth, and frankly, your interests all along seem to have told you Booth.
Good luck with the decision. Can't go wrong either way.
Thanks for everyone's insight. I ultimately chose Booth.
Great choice. Congrats
Couldn't go wrong with either choice; still happy you chose Booth. Congrats!
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