Do employers want to hire student-athletes?
I am currently an NCAA Division I Student-Athlete studying Economics and Finance. I have tried everything to break into the trading world and regularly search the internet for entry level trading jobs. I play baseball at school, have a 3.6 gpa, and got a 1350 on my SAT's. I know that I don't go to an Ivy League School and that the job market is bad, but I still thought that I would be able to land a job in trading (hopefully in a trading program or as an assistant trader.) Throughout college all I have heard is that employers love candidates that play sports. It doesn't seem that way to me, maybe employers don't want to hire Student-Athletes and I should take it off my resume? I have applied to every investment bank, prop firm, and hedge fund that I can think of. Any suggestions??
That doesn't sound like what's holding you back...maybe post your resume and network more. Find other athletes on wallstreet and reach out to them.
Yeah dude... trading is practically built for athletes... not sure what the issue is that's holding you back, but if I had to guess I'm almost sure it's networking. A perfect example is monty... he played baseball and is in trading so clearly he is someone you should know... This shit isn't rocket science.
Do you go to a target or non-target? Are there any alums that play baseball that are on the street (in any position not only trading) that you can talk to? You need to network if you haven't already.
Assuming you are a Junior, correct? A little more info would be helpful.
I go to a non target. I've tried reaching out to baseball alumni but never seem to run into any that are in trading. Even tried searching for alumni on linkedin but didnt have any success. I'm a senior in college and starting to get a little desperate...
A lot of Chicago trading firms hire athletes. They pay more and there's generally no networking involved. That's probably the smarter route.
JJC/Brady4MVP should have more info for you on the Chicago prop shops. And if you get an offer there and manage to stay in the trading business, why would you ever want to leave for an NYC firm that will pay you less?
Post your CV so we can take a look if there is anything that is not right. Being a D1 student is never a hinderance.
Banks LOVE athletes!! Listing your athletic experience in your resume is like a fourth field next to education, experience, and additional. They're all over Wall Street...simply because they know how to take pressue and are usually more efficient/have better time-management skills. Double-check your resume or networking/interviewing skills!!
Was not aware of this... sounds good to me!!!
and Illiniprogrammer i'm looking for a spot in nyc because that's where i'm from.... Every phone interview i get seems to revolve around the HR person asking how hard i throw and ends there.
Maybe if you show her how 'hard' you throw, she'll forward your resume
It also depends a lot on what school you attend. No, you don't need to go to Ivy League school, but you need to go to a reputable university... Is your school in the top 30 or so? If you go to Illinois, Notre Dame, Michigan, Texas, UNC, etc... you should be money... but it could be a different story if you're at some no name school. No one cares if you play ball if you are at like Southern Mississippi Christian Random State
Any flagship state school- or even the secondary flagship school (IE: UWM, UIC) is plenty good for 90% of the prop shops. Even the Chicago city colleges like DePaul and Roosevelt get some folks hired into prop trading. It's less about what you've done and more about what you might be able to do that gets you hired.
College Athletes and Buyside Recruiting (Originally Posted: 01/31/2010)
Does being a D1 college athlete help in the PE recruiting process? I'm talking standard path -- graduate, two years in banking, then buyside. How do you have it on your resume? My athletic experience played a significant role in my college experience and would like to keep it on my resume, but want to know if it'll do anything for me in recruiting.
Many people will include right under education a section for their D1 athletic experience. You should already have this in your resume. It's definitely a plus if you have it, combined with a strong resume.
Where did/do you play? Curious if your SN has anything to do with your school.
Do D3 sports carry any weight?
It doesn't. I'd prefer to keep where and what I played to myself. I played a sport that was, arguably, the most time-consuming sport in college. LOTS of hours.
I'd guess division doesn't really matter (?), though I'm sure D1 just naturally gets more interest than D3 (not meaning to sound like a jerk).
D1 experience will certainly help with buyside recruiting, but not as much as it did in banking. Banking requires (among other things) pure stamina without sacrificing performance and recruiters will eat up your stories about 5 hour training days while balancing classes and exams and social activities. I remember plenty of BB interviewers asking nothing but my athletic experience. Buyside firms, not so much. While they will still value certain aspects of your experience such as leadership (if you were captain for example), comfort in social settings (true for most athletes), and potentially rich alumni network, be prepared to talk much more about your work experience.
No offense taken, I don't think I could play two D1 sports anyways.
I think CharmWithSubstance has it right. Unlike recruiting at banks which is primarily fit and places a heavy emphasis on your academic accomplishments, PE recruiting is focused almost singularly on your intelligence and your work experience. While participating in college athletics obviously doesn't hurt and can differentiate you on the personality side, that alone won't give you the leg up in PE recruiting that it did in undergrad. We have a very structured recruiting process at my PE shop and I'd say that only 10-15% of our process is used to assess areas outside of work experience and intellectual aptitude. That doesn't mean drop sports from your resume and add more banking bullets, it just means that your interviews will carry far more weight than your resume.
Agree with previous comments. It can only help so definitely put it. Clearly investment banking will be a lot more excited by your athletic experience than PE. I still remember some dude from my MBA program landing a summer internship at MS while being absolutely incompetent or barely "average" but having previously played football at a high level (XFL, AFL) clearly helped him to get in... but don't worry there is a justice: at the end of the summer they didn't sign him... ;-)
I think that many MDs enjoy having ahtletes in their teams for many reasons, not just because of the fact that a good physical presence is always great when pitching but because high level ahtletes have all already demonstrated their willingess to make some sacrifices to achieve performance, they usually have great mental and good team spirit while being very competitive. a great investment banker ! ;-)
The only sport that takes up more time than football, would be wrestling, but going by your screen name, Im guessing you played football, maybe for an Ivy, which is still not true 1A
^? Football isn't even close to the top in terms of time commitment.
I would have to disagree with you there....
I did not play football, did not go to an Ivy, did play a sport that took up a ridiculous amount of time, and it was D1.
crew is my guess. although why we're playing this guessing game is beyond me. good luck with your buyside recruiting - from what I know, it's mostly based on your work experience, not much about your college experience.
Agreed -- stupid guessing game. And it wasn't so much that I was hoping to rely on my college experience in buyside recruiting. I was just wondering if college athletics would play a role in the process and whether I should have it on there or not.
Also, since I guess it doesn't really matter, I played baseball.
No matter what the sport, if you're in D1, chances are you're putting in 5+ hours a day through a combination of conditioning, weight training, and practicing your sport. I have yet to meet an athlete that does less than 4. So, the point is, that marginal difference hardly matters - 1/2 of your college life or more will be spent on the sport. Baseball does have a ridiculously long season though...
Well, this has gotten slightly off topic...
My question is, how do PE firms gauge intelligence? Is it focused on undergrad institution, undergrad GPA, test scores and how the interviewee conveys his/her experience and understanding of finance? Is it more heavily-weighted towards one or the other? Would an exceptional GMAT (750+) help ease the concerns of the other measurables (SAT, GPA)?
Sorry for the loads of questions. I just feel I was successful in ibd interviews out of UG because I understood what they were looking for -- I now need to switch gears to what buyside firms are looking for coming out of your analyst years.
Jim,
I suggest you don't worry about this so much. Just like recruiting at banks, it is entirely dependant on the individuals reviewing your resume and interviewing you. Some people care about GPA, some people don't. I will say that in general, your ability to speak to your experience in banking will be the #1 driving force as to whether or not you get the offer. You almost can't prep for PE interviews at all, mostly because if you haven't learned what you need to know while you work as an analyst, it is unlikely you'll be able to "figure it out" a few weeks before you interview. Interviewers can tell if you're someone who "gets it" or not.
Why are athletes so vaunted on Wall Street? (Originally Posted: 09/04/2013)
is it more of a social club thing, or there are actually qualities that occur more in athletes than non-athletes? Why are there times when an athletes with not much intellect beats out the guy who genuinely is interested in finance?
sports people are winners. people like winners. winners like other winners. sports people have to show determination and commitment, people like these qualities. people like talking about sport, sports people are good at talking about sport. etc.....
Many athletes in college put in pretty damn long hours, even off season could be 20+ hours in addition to all of their class. It teaches hard work, teamwork, dealing with failure, and time management. I'd take a 3.5 gpa athlete that is personable over a 3.9 guy with no real extracurriculars, despite the athlete having a lower "intellect" like you say. I've done both college sports and other college extracurriculars, sports definitely take more of your free time. Also, you just need a minimum level of intellect to do this job, you don't need to be a genius, just smart enough, after that things like teamwork and social skills matter much more than whatever advanced math classes you took.
this
I was a Division 1 athlete in college and I agree with BigSwingingDave's post. I also think one thing you also have to keep in mind is that the mentality that many athletes possess causes them to seek performance-focused professions, so you will likely see many athletes in high finance. In addition, athletes tend to build stronger social networks than the average person (not always, of course) which provides an advantage in many cases.
I disagree with the negative academic stereotype that was mentioned earlier.I am not sure how diverse the sample of athletes these stereotypes were based upon, but most of my friends who were athletes on various teams had very high GPAs and spent the majority of their time studying when not at practice or competing. Of course there are athletes who are not the brightest, but I don't recall ever seeing the average GPA across all sports drop below 3.3 when it was released internally by the AD each semester. Naturally, you will get plenty with 3.7+ at a normal D1 school with a few hundred athletes.
Never really understood the obsession with athletes. Some of the dumbest people in my school are athletes and I wouldn't hire them with a 10 foot pole. From personal experience, it's the "nerdy" people who are able to contribute & learn faster - they finish their work at 1/2 the speed and 2x the quality. At the end of the day, what you're doing is a job that has to be done quickly and accurately.
Also, the people who scream the loudest about social skills tend to be those who do shitty in school and use it as a self-justification (aka. who cares about my own bad grades? they don't matter anyways).
Dude, are you serious? The problem folks in investment banking groups I have been in are the non-athlete nerd types. Sure, they might make great analysts but one thing you will learn when you get to the desk is that this industry has a major problem with folks that do really well at the lower levels of IB (think modeling and producing pitch materials) who hit the wall when they are expected to deliver in a client facing roll. The analyst job is very demanding, but the ratio of qualified applicants to open spots is very high. Finding someone who can be successful as an analyst and junior associate as well as make the transition to what IB is actually about (i.e. going in front of the clients and bringing in business) is extremely hard to do. Athletes with good grades tend to fit this mold very well.
Someone else mentioned it before, but one thing these folks have experience at is public failure. That is a totally different animal than getting a poor grade on a test or research paper. Did you ever read about your less-than-stellar midterm in the campus newspaper? Well, someone who fumbled the football on a potentially game-winning drive has.
I played Division I sports (a real sport, think football/baseball/basketball) and majored in engineering. The demands of going to class all day, then going to practice and finally hitting the books into the wee hours is just about the perfect training program for IB. Think about it......
Athletes are perceived as people who are winners & have accomplished. Like it or not, it's great for the group/desk's PR & they do have interesting stories to tell, which clients will eat up. I've worked with two former NFL players, great guys & jokesters with superb people skills, but not necessarily the brightest nor the most profitable or efficient within the group.
Big cities are similar to college. Always something to get into if you want to. Bankers love students who have a track record of making sacrifices to take on more commitment and work while everyone else parties and sleeps in. A very successful friend of mine played soccer in college and besides leading other young men, he got up and ran at 6:30am 4 times a week for over half the school year.
Did you mean professional athlete or non professional athlete? Professional athlete in Wall Street. I haven't heard any of them.
Grant Hill works in mezz. Wayne Chrebet is on a desk somewhere in NYC. I had a former Orlando Magic/ Notre Dame player working on my floor in a better role than I had. While he was bumping Shaq I was studying acctg/finance and he still managed to outplace me. And everyone on the floor rode his dick like you'd imagine because he played in the league.
They can handle long hours and are fun individuals to talk to.
So glad my 2 brothers chose medicine & tech as a career instead of Wall Street. At least those two fields are meritocratic - reward & promotion are based almost solely on your quality of work. I'd take Zuckerberg/Jerry Yang/Bill Gates (nerds) over some random jock MD any day of the week to run a business.
"Random jocks" don't make MD.
You can be smart and play sports.
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2011/news/companies/1104/gallery.fortune…
@ Beretta
Sounds like you're in the wrong industry.
This forum is deluded as usual, same deal with the military thread.
The best employees, particularly at the low levels, are nerds. Nerds do what they are asked, they do it efficiently, and effectively, and have nothing else to do so they can work long hours. Jocks and vets just aren't as bright.
Hours don't mean shit. This isn't physical labor, it's toiling away on Excel and PowerPoint. Nerds know all the keyboard shortcuts and formulas.
At the low levels presentation skills and communication skills are irrelevant. At the higher levels there's just so much more competition that there's hardly a dearth of candidates with good communicative ability.
If you're hiring someone to cold call clients, then I'd take a jock any day of the week over a nerd. But for cranking out slide decks and models and all that, well, nerdy stuff, then you'd be much better suited with a nerd on your team.
Not really, I got a 3.1 in undergrad, wouldn't call myself a geek. If it makes you feel as though you're winning this argument by calling me a geek go ahead. By the way, anecdotes aren't evidence. Like I said before there are anomalies, but it doesn't make sense whatsoever to screen for this criteria in a job that is better suited to qualities that a nerd would possess.
p.s. not all geeks are good at being geeks, similarly with sportsmen
Nerd and an underachiever. Deadly combo.
Also, I think it is pretty safe to assume you have never actually been on the hiring side of the picture, mostly because you have no idea what qualities are actually important in a potential hire (even entry-level).
I was top 5% in my undergrad class the entire 4 years (in a STEM field), and I'll tell you right now the "good athletes + good GPA" combo is rare. Most athletes at my school (a good target) are dumb as bricks. I have beaten out athletes in final rounds and I refuse to believe this stereotype, as portrayed above, that somehow nerds cant have social skills (although, I wouldn't consider myself a complete nerd).
This is quickly becoming one of the more hilarious threads as of late
Gotta love how this thread went to the extremes. Not every dude going into banking was an Alabama center who majored in gym class. Plenty of lacrosse, track, baseball, and other non-pro sports bound people who are also smart enough for finance. And to all those people who are arguing so intensely that they beat out dumb jocks to get into finance and that nerds > everyone else in finance need to get a grip. Finance is a job that should be done by high school graduates. Knowing excel short cuts isn't rocket science. Doing basic algebra in a spread sheet isn't impressive. Get over yourself.
And who defines smart? I'd rather have a conversation with a liberal arts grad than an engineering grade even though we usually shit on the liberal arts kids. The definition of smart varies.
People hire athletes because it is fucking hard work. Getting good grades in school really isn't ball busting. And at the end of the day you are still pounding away on a key board late at night.
So much h8teraid on this site. Honestly, it is pretty telling of who comprises membership on this site. Posts like this, posts on how many women a girl has slept with, posts on drug tests, etc etc.
There is a serious disconnect between what skills you guys think first-year analysts in finance need and what they actually do. Ibankers are Excel/accounting monkeys, yes anybody can do their job, but it's only the nerds that spend their time memorizing shortcuts and how to adjust for whatever non-recurring expense.
Unique skills that athletes have don't come to fruition in most entry-level roles in finance. That is my point, not whatever you attempt to misrepresent it as.
I'm not saying I was smarter than those jocks and calling me a nerd just makes you look pathetic, frankly I don't care as I don't come here seeking the approval of all you hotshot analysts.
Telling me to get over myself? Y'all need to get over yourselves thinking Ibanking or consulting or whatever is it you do is some tough feat of strength that only an athlete has the mental fortitude to get through.
How many banks have templates. A bunch are outsourcing this shit to India. This memorizing short cuts isn't intelligence, it is rote memorization and time on the board.
Just never shocks me how threads like this turn out. Comical.
The athletes who are getting hired on wall street are vaunted because they have the same or slightly lower GPA as the rest of the analyst class yet they basically had an additional full-time job that required them to represent their university at all times in a positive manner, were encouraged to do outreach for their communities, have a high threshold for hard work, do not quit easily, can handle emotional setbacks, and know what it is like to work as part of team. Sure, not all of them possess these traits and some non-athletes have them in spades. It's another way to filter people, just like GPA, that is imperfect. Apparently they have decided that this is a worthwhile way to screen potential applicants.
lots of angry betas on this site, for sure
Beta city in here right now. Being a college/pro athlete is a great way to show that you have outstanding work ethic and can perform at a high level. Isn't that what an employer wants?
Also, athletes tend to do well in sales. Can't tell you how many ex-athletes I know on the floor
Yeah, I just have this to say: if you been known to play a sport (as the sportsmen are wont to do...), then Wall Street knows that you play a sport. It's that simple, and that's the bottom line. If you disagree with this post, you're a pleb.
When I interview a bunch of candidates for a position I just hire whomever is most swole.
Out of curiosity, how are ex-coaches perceived? I'm a college student and a varsity position coach with the local high school football team.
Beat it nerd... either FRAT or SPORT
This is my opinion but I have seen it play out many times, might apply to the trading floor more than the IB bullpen: What some of what I read above misses is that athletes haven't only put in the 4 years at university, they started when they were 7,8,9,10 years old. They go to practice without fail, no matter how shitty they are feeling, they take long trips on weekends (winter sports there were days when you don't even see the sun when its tourney time), they suffer humiliating defeats are expected to bounce back, they work in a very heirarchical system and find spaces to use their talent. Then comes high-school, same routine, school gets slightly harder so they find time to prioritize and learn how to focus (my highest grades were always in season) - for better or for worse they also do well socially, get laid/are popular etc, which reinforces self esteem and social ability. Then onto college when usually only they best of the best from each high-school usually continue onto be cometitive - again the long hours that no else is facing (most other people spend the time partying, getting high or discussing the meaning of existence). Athletes know about committment/dedication, loyalty, they know how to put in work for the long haul - combine that with someone who has smarts/high gpa and you are more likely to find a solid employee than take a chance on a kid who just has a high GPA (who might have those same qualities but hasn't signaled it anyway so far). These are the reasons I would lean towards athletes.
ok in review I should have read all the posts before writing my post than after. But you know, athletes gotta stick out for each other.
How prominent are athletes on wall street? (Originally Posted: 11/30/2014)
I read here that athletes are loved a lot on wall street when it comes to recruiting. How true is this statement?
Does it vary a lot depending on the department they are in? For example so far I see that there seem to be more athletes in stuff like PWM compared to IBD (which seems to attract more technical people imo). But that is only what I see and may not be an accurate reflection of what is actually going on.
What about stuff like S&T or PE? Does this happen just in the US or does it also apply to Europe/Asia?
Anyone got any information to share?
Doesnt quite apply for Asia in my opinion.
There are athletes in Asia?
It's like you've never heard of ping pong or Starcraft. Ignorant people like you make me sick.
The strain of working in the finance industry lends itself well to athletes. As an former college athlete I am comfortable with not asking myself how I feel or if I want to do x,y or z. I just put my head down and perform the work asked of me.
Athletes (Originally Posted: 08/14/2008)
How much does being a college athlete help in the recruiting process for IBD? Do top banks look highly upon athletes?
know about BB, but I applied to an internship position this summer and got an email the next day for an interview. I guess the MD was surprised my GPA was so high considering I played at the collegiate level for two years. Im sure it says something about your commitment.
It definitley can't hurt you. People who are not into sports would just not care much. But it's like with everything else, if your interviewer is into sports or your particular sport then it can be a great conversation topic. I think the key is that you have a great GPA alongside with your athletics. That certainly shows that you are competitive, have good time management skills and have interest in things outside of school.
Banks are not looking to hire "dumb-jocks". But if everything else important is there, being an athlete just like being good-looking --and there seems to be a correlation-- is a bonus (esp. if you are a guy and get interview by a female MD ...men are not the only pigs... :)
Also, some sports will be more valued than others; but ultimately it'll come down to the biases of whoever reads your resume. Rugby players like rugby players; fencing nerds like fencing nerds, etc...
Anything that shows commitment and stamina is good. Being in top shape entering IB is almost a necessity, because by the end of the gig, you'll be fat and malnourished.
i think it will help you alot. it shows commitment, teamwork, and endurance. at least in terms of IBD, since the work isnt that intellectual, these characteristics are probably than just being smart.
I played a sport all 4 years of college and it helped in my first job but only by chance. The VP I worked for was also in same conference I played in. It helped in that job but not so much since.
It shows a lot about the person but no more so then someone that was in a club or had a good leadership role in college.
especially at notorious jock banks like Lehman. i'm pretty sure over 50% of my school's football team went there after. plus usually athletes are pretty cool and stand out on the resume vs the usual finance nerd.
It makes a big difference if you're in D1. Being in a sport like football, baseball, or basketball carries more weight than being on crew, tennis, or soccer (unless interviewer did one of those sports).
Also I think there are a lot of networking events with banks that are exclusive to D1 athletes.
i work at LB and played baseball. Lots of former sports people here
What specific firms actively seek d1 athletes for IBD? (Originally Posted: 09/22/2010)
D1 athlete. at masters now. straight out of Ugrad. 3.8 gpa. virtually useless lib arts ugrad maj w/ zero internships but very high athletics performance. Want to know what firms specifically look to hire me for IBD>>???
He said D1 ATHLETE, not D1 lacrosse player.
ok so sure, of course, no bank says "find me an athlete," got it;
I'm wondering what firms just happen to have a bunch of former athletes....people say lehman was filled with them, that MS has a bunch, etc...
of course I'm going to want every possible edge given the dearth of finance background I have, like if MS hires a bunch of athletes for S&T, I'm going to play that up.
I realize I said IBD earlier, but just par exemplar
I worked at lehman and yes they had a ton.. my desk of 13 had like 9
OP, your ignorance is amusing.
this totally backfired.
i can picture lehman now, putting all the interns in head locks, drinking protein shakes, and giving each other high fives
no wonder they are no longer with us
Were you like the QB/RB/WR of your football team?
Reach out to your alumni base
If you played Lacrosse you are golden.
Word brah. Laxers run the street. This person's clearly not a lacrosse player because they'd already have the hook up. Football players have the pros, lacrosse players have the street.
Absolutely agree. Like I said, greatest regret of my life was not playing LAX.
I'm a former D1 athlete myself (not lax), and I've found that while it sometimes comes up in informational interviews and other more casual conversations with professionals in my network, athlete status will not help you too much if you're not qualified academically and/or you lack relevant internship experience (3.8 is definitely good enough though). That point is exactly why i am a former athlete and didn't play out my eligibility, namely because I didn't want to sacrifice grades and internship opportunities. I'm sure it would be different if you are getting significant PT which it sounds like the OP was. All that being said, if you can relate your playing days into leadership experience and work ethic, it'll help get you places. Case in point, a 4-yr starting LB at my school finished up with a 3.9 in finance and got accepted to HBS and Stanford (i guess it was some kind of early app situation cause he's gonna work a couple of years first) don't know him personally so i don't know what, if any, internship experience he had.
As for IBD recruiting specifically, while it seems they do recruit a lot based on general aptitude and work ethic (D1 athlete with a 3.8 shows you are pretty strong in both of those areas), i've gotta think that at least some relevant experience is a must.
As for LAX players on the Street, you gotta watch this clip:
Bert the Broker
[quote=PSH2]I'm a former D1 athlete myself (not lax), and I've found that while it sometimes comes up in informational interviews and other more casual conversations with professionals in my network, athlete status will not help you too much if you're not qualified academically and/or you lack relevant internship experience (3.8 is definitely good enough though). That point is exactly why i am a former athlete and didn't play out my eligibility, namely because I didn't want to sacrifice grades and internship opportunities. I'm sure it would be different if you are getting significant PT which it sounds like the OP was. All that being said, if you can relate your playing days into leadership experience and work ethic, it'll help get you places. Case in point, a 4-yr starting LB at my school finished up with a 3.9 in finance and got accepted to HBS and Stanford (i guess it was some kind of early app situation cause he's gonna work a couple of years first) don't know him personally so i don't know what, if any, internship experience he had.
As for IBD recruiting specifically, while it seems they do recruit a lot based on general aptitude and work ethic (D1 athlete with a 3.8 shows you are pretty strong in both of those areas), i've gotta think that at least some relevant experience is a must.
As for LAX players on the Street, you gotta watch this clip:
Bert the Broker
]
Bert's pretty spot on. You won't find a ton of lax bros in IBD, you can't hardly ever party which is the life blood of a bro. Plus most of us don't have the work ethic, however there are some exceptions.
Georgetown (M) laxers sr's take a trip up to Wall Street every year and meet up with their old bro's from the team and given they have the grades will have their pick.
Squash, tennis, and crew are just as good.
delete
Not sure it would be considered an impressive factor, but if many previous power lifters from your school made it to the street then you should have some good chances of establishing a strong network.
Dumb.... lol. Joining a sport to get a better shot at recruiting.
Please tell me this is a joke. A 3.6 GPA is not "low", and this would be a waste of time if you only play the sport for recruiting. You cannot really connect with an interviewer over a sport that you have been playing for less than a year. I would spend this time networking, which will be much more beneficial.
^^
You do realize that competing at a varsity level is not exactly an easy thing. It might be different for power lifting, but people in other sports have to train hours every day. My friend who plays football not only has to practice on the field, but also work out and watch tape hours every day.
The time spent on the sport could easily be spent on networking instead.
Good point, playing at a varsity level is a job, especially if you're receiving financial assistance.
Note: I played Division 1 Volleyball.
Unless you know for certain that there are power lifting connections where you're looking, I don't think it would be more beneficial than old, boring networking.
A 3.6 is a great GPA. When I think of power lifting I think of PED's.
It's semi-arbitrary, but is powerlifting an NCAA sponsored sport?
In my head, the only way it'd be worth thinking about is if the sport is NCAA sponsored. It already sounds as though your school is division 1. There's just a obvious difference between club sports and varsity sports at the division 1 level. Club sports you can generally join/drop anytime. Varsity takes much more talent, commitment, and also you have to overcome "politics" more frequently (were you a recruited athlete, how many stars, etc.)
I say if it is NCAA sponsored and D1, do it. Then you're able to spin the "competing at the highest level is part of me. I wasn't good enough freshman or sophomore year to join, but through hardwork etc. etc. was offered a varsity spot on a NCAA powerlifting team that's #X in the nation (If it is NCAA sponsored, there can't be more than 30-40 schools that sponsor it, bound to be a good ranking)." Then you translate into balancing school, athletics, networking from non-target as well into story yada yada time management yada yada....
If it's not NCAA sponsored and D1, then just network your a** off and don't use the student-athlete card. Just put it as a hobby on your resume.
Say that out loud.
Your GPA is fine. If you love power lifting, go for it. If you're doing it just for recruiting, I think it's a waste of time (and you aren't really going to enjoy it.)
Focus on getting some relevant internship experience and spend your time reaching out and networking.
Bankers think it's cool but at the end of the day it won't get you anywhere... Zero of my interviews have been "omg you played sports"... banking is full of club sports and high school sports stars. Also I've met 0 bankers that could even do a snatch or clean/press let alone with any real amount of weight.
Unless you love powerlifting, this is retarded.
I've found that athletes who focus on athletics as a point of differentiation do not succeed in IBD. No one ever says will being a championship chess player help me become a successful IBer. Those people are naturally smart and competitive. Just list it on your resume and people will get it, or not care. But highlighting it just highlights tha you think its important. It is not. Sorry.
You sound like the HS junior who adds a bunch of clubs / activities / service projects right before applying to college...
If you are powerlifting for "networking" / recruiters, that's moronic. If you just want to life for your own amusement, get girls, or whatever fine but if you tried to hype your newly discovered fashion up because you joined the powerlifting team for 3 months before SA 2016 opportunities arise, I would ding you on the spot for insulting me / co-workers that spent 20-30+ hours / week as college athletes. Yes, there are 20 hour maximum practice rules / week. No, they dont actually get enforced.
I was a college athlete. GPA was below yours. When i was in IBD, I definitely had a strong bias towards other athletes. I always looked at how long they had competed and given a 3.8 GPA from Wharton or 3.4 GPA from an athlete from Wharton, I selected the athlete for an interview 9/10.
Club Sports in College (Originally Posted: 08/28/2015)
Hello Everyone,
I will be starting soon as a freshman at one of the (semi-target) NESCAC schools. I am looking into the possibility of playing a sport, and I was hoping I could get some advice from this forum. I have managed to finagle invitations to join the Sailing, Rowing and Rugby teams at my school. The problem is, I don't know which one to join, or whether I should even play a sport at all. My main motivations to do so are to be able to stay in shape and have a close network of teammates/friends. The second seems especially appealing, since I'm somewhat introverted and sometimes don't make friends easily. However, I also have an eye towards pursuing IB or something similar after graduation, and I understand the importance of a high GPA. While I realize playing a sport and being a good student are not mutually exclusive, all of the current students I have been corresponding with acknowledge that athletics are a big time commitment, and one must have excellent time management skills to keep up academically. Also, if I do join a team, I won't have time to participate in other extracurriculars, like the investment club or studying for ib interviews on my own, which would probably help me more in the long run. So, my question: Is joining a club sport an advisable thing to do, or given that it will create downward pressure on my GPA and perhaps not allow me to pursue academics as fully as I would like, not a good idea? I would probably be an economics major, btw.
If you want to join a club or intramural sport because you enjoy sports, do it. You can find time for everything you want to do in school, even with classes, internships, and clubs; just be strategic when planning. Don't be pessimistic before you even attempt it. Give it a shot for a semester and see what happens.
College Sports (Originally Posted: 11/19/2010)
So at this point everyone has heard a number of stories about the poor guys that play football at SEC type schools that are forced to get by on their meager personal funds while the schools that profit from them rake in millions upon millions through tv, merchandise and marketing agreements. These same guys have often told stories of winning the big game and then having to bum money off their buddies to get a pizza. Here's my question. How would you make the situation right?
Maybe you think it's just fine the way it is. For those of you, myself included, that paid your way through school, I'm sure the idea of a full ride for 4 years along with the admiration and adulation of your peers is enough to get you drooling. But the fact remains that these guys create enormous profit for their respective institutions and receive little, beyond the aforementioned scholarship, in return.
Before any of you fly off the handle, I understand that 4 years in school is tantamount to an 100k+ check written on these guys behalf. But what about the guys that stay in state? Hell what about the guys that play at University of Georgia or Georgia Tech that would have qualified for a HOPE scholarship and took the Football deal instead. And I know that a fair amount of these fellows probably only made it to college because they can throw/catch/kick a ball better than you or I.
Another thing to remember is that VERY few NCAA athletes go pro or add any amount of real value to thier school. Right, wrong or indifferent, people don't make road trips or pay huge sums of money to see the girls volleyball team.
My point is this, on a forum with so many industrious, compensation driven college guys, I'm curious as to how you would answer the following question: How would you make the situation in college sports fair for both school and student-athlete alike?
I think you have to keep in mind that the majority of college athletic programs are either unprofitable or may drain money from the institution.
If a major change were made to the system, you would have to account for all institutions, not only schools with great high-grossing football programs. You would then run into problems with lacrosse, fencing, swimming etc. Then what about D2 and D3 schools?
I think the current system is probably the best. Any other sort of compensation for a student-athlete would raise hell. Plus, it's the students decision to dedicate their lives to an athletic program and take a shot of going pro. Btw, all the athletes at my school at like kings with their ridiculous meal plans.
I think the answer is less on the NCAA end and more on the pro sports end. The NFL and NBA draft eligibility rules are just stupid. What's the harm in letting 18 year olds play in the NBA or NFL? I know that plenty of players jump too early and flame out before reaching potential (Kwame Brown, Sebastian Telfair, etc. etc.) but the decision to go pro should be up to the player and the team drafting them, not the league.
Excellent topic. Worthy of lengthy discussion. I have just cracked a quality alcoholic beverage, however. Long story short...life ain't far, no compensation for children playing sports. Period. Athletic director scumbags, etc get the firing squad (literally and figuratively). Like you alluded to, most college athletes will not go pro and most college programs are not SEC football schools. Overall, professional athlete prospects should be treated as the cash cows they are and treated like the campus G's they are. Period. Average schools should not rape my tax dollar to pay for free room, board, gas, food, lodging and Nikes for a discombobulated center from Freedomskaya so he can average 2.1 PPG at a community college.
p.s. I got to sneak into the cafeteria of the Florida State University football team. Those fools have a 5star chef and lobster tails on the freaking breakfast menu. I don't feel bad for any D1 athlete.
From a Soccer perspective, I have no complaints whatsoever.
they get stipends every month for food/personal use. obviously not a salary, but still, its not like theyre living off personal funds
Let me try to answer the question as asked: what would I do to make it better?
It all revolves around the professional leagues, look there is no similar issue in Baseball, why? Because kids came out of High School and play minor league.
If the NBA and the NFL have a minor league system, that would be solved right away.
Now a minor league system would crush the NCAA right away, and they would fight up and arms against it.
To fix the NCAA basketball and football system you could do couple things: 1- These students could be hired as student employees, the same way, some of us worked on campus and got paid cash. Well these football players could have got paid more, since they bring more to the school.
Or 2- Have the schools create their own league outside of the NCAA umbrella. It would be the minor league itself, students would get paid, but they are part of the minor league. Some schools only would be able to make it, but who cares, only 30 schools make money in it.
Schools that do not make money are the one with true amateurs, and should continue their program if they feel it is useful to them.
Finally let just think how much money these kids bring: 1- Tickets 2- Bowl money 3- TV revenues 4- Name recognition: who heard about Boise State and TCU before 2004? 5- Alumni network being stronger= more money
oh
Cartwright snatched up most of my argument. Lol @ TCU/Boise State pre-2004.
Bottom line is that the Rose Bowl, the Cotton Bowl, the Sugar, the Orange, etc would still be packing them in by the many tens to hundred thousand and change if a bunch of quadriplegics were crashing into each other at .3 mph... as long as they were sporting adequately rival jerseys.
College sports are about my dick is bigger than yours. Period. It makes absolutely no fucking difference who's playing, here go the marginal value of "college athlete" is fucking NIL. Ask your old man, better yet...gramps. Basketball was just as fun in the 50's when a bunch of short shorts wearing, no vertical, Chuck Taylor wearing white guys were elbowing each other and throwing up underhand free throws.
ANYBODY can play professional sports or D1 college sports. Because it is not the talent that gets you there...
It is the will of overweight has beens with mad cash to argue amongst each other that makes it possible.
OK, i hate to break it to some of you, as i know this is an ever popular topic, but there is alot, i mean ALOT of misconceptions about college sports, especially the profit generating sports which are Mens Basketball and Football.
Before i get on my soap box, i need everyone to know that not only have I worked within 2 different Division 1 college athletic departments, but i have a masters degree in sports business. Secondly, I myself was a division 1 athlete, not either of the profit sports, but a D1 athlete nonetheless.
As for the premise that these kids should get paid because they generate millions, is at the forefront of college sports, and its ridiculous. It is broken into 2 arguments. 1) these kids arent paid and should be and 2) they bring in so much money and get "nothing."
To answer claim #1)... they are paid. They are paid with a 1 year renewable scholarship. There are no 4year scholarships. Theyre earned. Just like your bonus at the end of the year, you earn it. Also, they are also given stipends every other week or monthly. Its not a ton of money but PLENTY for everything they need. As someone mentioned before, some of these programs have better facilities than the pro's do. If you think im blowing it out of proportion, then watch this
. Its a tour of Oregons football medical complex. Also as stated before, even at non SEC/Big Ten schools, the other facilities are top notch with typically unlimited options for meals and custom built nutrition/diets for most kids. Someone said they have lobster, and sometimes, they do. Its unreal the difference in food quality between football and tennis/volleyball/field hockey/soccer etc etc. They want for nothing. But alas, as stated before i know for a FACT that at the Univ of North Carolina where good friends of mine worked for Butch Davis, most kids SUMMER check was over $600 bi weekly. Remember, these kids dont pay for rent, food, clothing, healthcare etc etc. Ill take 1200 a month without bills besides my cell phone during the summer, no questions asked.
To answer claim #2) Yes, Matt Stafford/Reggie Bush/Matt Leinart did help those schools bring in millions. This claim in itself can be broken down into 2 parts again.
Part A) stating that after the 2009 Academic Year was over, Less than 10, yes LESS THAN 10, out of the 120 D1 schools with D1A (FBS) football programs made money. Football, overwhelmingly is responsible for most of the revenue at these schools, but also most of the expenses. You start paying these athletes, and there wont be enough money for these programs at all.
Part B) is tougher to explain. For every Reggie Bush, there are 5 or 6 guys who barely touch the field. So now how do you valuate each players worth. How much do they get paid. Will you pay Reggie Bush/Cam Newton (pun intended) the same as your 3rd string Kicker, or your 4th string center who never makes it off the practice field. This may be the total opposite ends of the spectrum but if you think issues wont arise as to how you pay players and based on what, your kidding yourselves. You cant pay everybody across the board a flat rate, cause then what about kids who get red shirted and never play therefore dont help generate the product on the field therefore they dont generate money. Furthermore, if you start paying football, other sports want in on that pie. Lets move to Mens basketball for a second where the teams are made up or no more than 15 kids. If you break down the budget per athlete, I think you would be surprised as to how much money is spent on these 15 kids. Think Charter flights. Think hotel rooms. Think dinners out or catering everytime they leave the campus. This isnt an exaggeration. To prove a point, BOTH alma maters of mine took their football players out to dinner (catering) the night before the game and put them in HOTEL ROOMS... DURING HOME GAME WEEKENDS because most coaches dont trust their players enough to believe they wont party or do something stupid the night before a big game. When you have a roster of over 100 players, then you add immediate staff... how does 75 rooms sound when they have perfectly good dorm rooms (mind you 90% of athletes live together anyway) they could stay in. Now multiply that by 6 home games a year. The money is ludicrous.
Now im starting to get off topic. But none the less, you see the point.
As for paying these kids, there are a plethora of options, none are perfect. my .02 is that if you want to pay these kids... fine. Pay em. But take away their scholarship. Make them pay for school, bills, tuition management fees, books, apartments/room and board. Have them start paying for what they get for free... and every single athlete (including myself) would BEG for the old system back. It may not be perfect, but it works.
You cannot underestimate that most of these kids use the system but dont take advantage of it. There is a reason most of these kids lump themselves into the "Athlete majors" of communications and the like becasue theyre easy and allow for them to focus on sports. As everyone knows, most think theyll go pro, but never do. They end up often times spending their 4 years having more fun and not preparing themselves for life after football/basketball. I dont feel bad for football/basketball guys that get Communications/Psych degrees and cry fowl after 4 years cause they cannot get a good job. If they networked well while in college instead of partying/playing video games, they would see the abundance of boosters out there who SEARCH FOR college athletes to hire at their companies. There is a very large sector of ex athletes who are boosters who WANT ex athletes, almost regardless of their degree, to work for them to pay back what they did for the school.
But anyway. In conclusion, we dont deserve to be paid. I say that because I myself dont feel i should have been paid. I was given a gift after years of hard work and i used it unlike some of my brethren. Im sure there may be some ex college football guys who will start to cry fowl on here... but most of them dont even understand how much the valuation is on their "scholarship".
There is no farm system for the NFL because the NCAA is the farm system.
Lastly, Midas, your a very intelligent man but that last post is ignorant. Chuck Taylor could play the game with peach baskets because the game was still evolving he WAS the best athlete on the floor. Ill leave it at that.
Aside from paying these kids, the better arguement is how to make this business more profitable. Money flows out of athlete programs like hookers did out Eliot Spitzers door. Seriously. To think that in the last 2 years, THE OHIO STATE University athletic department, one of the top 3 biggest (by budget and size) in the country, LOST MONEY. With their enormous stadium, huge donor base, BCS Bowl money... they lost money.
Before we start even thinking about paying athletes, lets become more profitable and run it like a true business so we dont have to have "athletic fees" for every one of the other 20,000 kids on campus. Most schools take over 100-200 dollars from regular students to pay for the athletic budgets because theyre ever growing, yet not a single person is held accountable.
Start putting some F500 C-Suite execs in charge of the business and you'll see some change. But sports business is as much a good ole boy club as T Boone Pickens would tell you the oil industry is. It may not be millions a year, but as a "retirement" gig... im sure 500k a year to be AD will suffice.
Virginia Tech football's net income pays for EVERY SINGLE sport's existence on campus, including the basketball team, and the program still runs a profit. I have zero problem treating the football players like kings--like gods. Hundreds of athletes EACH YEAR in sports nobody gives a sh*t about have their incredible, free college experiences to thank for our football players. Same thing for the basketball team--just built them the sickest practice facility in the nation (opened in 2009). Our school's prestige rises and falls on the football and basketball teams, both which employ countless dozens of people and enriches our few handful of coaches to the tune of millions of dollars each year--sums that put virtually anyone who has ever graced this board to shame.
The point is, FOOTBALL and BASKETBALL players deserve to be treated better than everyone else--and they are treated better. So yes, I agree that nobody should feel too bad for these players. That said, some of these athletes are from desperately poor situations and often times--because of the culture they grew up in--some of these guys are trying to support girlfriends/wives and their children at the age of 18-22 with only a stipend to send back. The simplest solution to the problem is to let student-athletes work jobs like everyone else can. The fact that they aren't even allowed to work as janitors or box packagers is absurd. Let 'em work honest jobs to earn some extra money.
Why should colleges pay for some kid to go to their school for free for him to screw up his sporting potential by working an extra job and wearing himself out. I see what you're saying but see it from their point of view.
i agree with dmcd on just about every point about college sports, i have some friends on the football team at my school and at their team dinners on friday there are always alumni that just hand out cash to all the players, its not like these kids live below the poverty line or anything.
The only thing i would say, is that if a school sells a jersey or something, with a number of a player on it, even though there is no names its pretty obvious that some kid is buying a jersey because its the number of his favorite player, and players should get a piece of that revenue, because you are essentially making money off of a kid's success in that case, that doesn't have anything to do with tv rights, stadium revenue etc...
That's a pretty massive NCAA rules violation. That's not to say I don't believe it, but I think that illustrates that maybe these kids should be getting paid in a way that DOESN'T violate the rules.
DISCLAIMER: I was a D1 Athlete for a period of time, walk on, no scholarship, no nothing.
Virginia Tech 4ever,
Im sorry to break it to you, but your VT is a RARE example where this can happen. You cannot use this anecdotal evidence of one program to encompass the other 119. Like i mentioned before, after everything, less than 10 made money or didnt need state funding to balance the budget.
Look at Maryland. Same conference yet lost 11.5 million on sports other than football and basketball. Football only made 9.3...
And to prove another point. Uconn, my alma mater have revenue of only 5mil for football and 5.8 for basketball, a national powerhouse. Yet their student fees were over 6 million! Its absurd. VT got 5.8 mil from their student fees as well... not right to tax the non athletes to pay for the athletes.
Oreos, the off season. College sports aren't year-round. Let the kids work--whether or not they can handle the job, sport and school is up to them--they're adults. Half the on-campus jobs allow you to study while watching the door anyway. Or at least let the kids apply for special exemptions to work. Lack of money has cost VT (and no doubt many other schools) several football players leaving early for the NFL draft because they had family's to support and weren't allowed to work. Not allowed to work? What is this, France?
dmcd, I didn't say student-athletes should be paid. I said they should be allowed to work to EARN money. Student fees are like $100 a semester. Trust me--we students gladly paid them for the right to get $40 tickets to watch an elite BCS conference football team and to walk 100 yards to see ACC bball.
VT4ever,
athletes actually CAN work, they just have to be able to show what theyre doing and how much theyre getting paid. IThere isnt a rule whatsoever that says kids cannot work during the summer. Many kids to work study and do stuff for athletic departments since alot stay on campus for summer anyways.
The issue arises when alumni hire these kids, pay em 15 bucks an hour and sometimes they dont even show up. THATS the issue, preferential treatment, when they already get most of it. A few years back the scandal came out that an alum was hiring kids to work at his dealership and after an investigation, their 12 dollar an hour job was a pure gift. The kids showed up like 1-2 throughout the whole summer...
It just has to be closely watched and regulated, because with rules violations, its the kids ass, not the donor's/booster's or schools ass. Slapping a 5,000 fine on Ohio State/Tennessee is nothing, but suspending a kid for 4 games is a HUGE deal.
Summer work? That's too bad for football players with two-a-days and class in dead rural college towns with no hiring need. I know. I spent 2 summers in Blacksburg. I imagine it's the same at Iowa, TTU, VT, etc.
So based on what is being said here, let say you are banker:
Your company says well, we will give you lodging in NYC, at Park Avenue, worth about $4000/month We will provide you a stipend for $1500/month And more importantly, you are spending 2-3 years at a prestigious bank, learning big things and will be able to make money later in life
However, you will not get any bonuses, and nothing else.
Do you think it is a fair deal?
Here's some Irony. While interning at ML before my junior year, the center for a big ACC team walks into the office with his g/f who's mom works there. Fast forward one year and I'm trying to intern at a boutique investment firm and it comes down to me and him and he got it because the firm invests funds for his schools endowment, plus all the members of the firm either got an BA/BS or Masters degree there. Should have taken him out when I had the chance, especially considering my favorite team is his rival team.
I say we make every sport "independent" and let them support themselves through generated revenue. If a sport decides/can afford to give their kids a modest stipend, good for them.
If your sport can't do that on a varsity level, you will be demoted to the club level, where you will receive some modest school support.
I played rugby in HS and some college. We are a club sport. We get like 1k from the school a year in club grants and a little bit of outside donations. We pay for our own uniforms, paint our own fields, organize our own transportation, and everything works out great. We play a full fall/spring schedule as well.
@jeremydos
I don't think I need to be a banker to know that comparing the lifestyle of a banker to the lifestyle of a college football player is completely absurd. I know dudes who literally look a chick up on facebook, message her and say hey i'm on the football team, and guess who is coming over that night? Playing sports and having the time of your life + playing video games + getting laid constantly...and free school on top of that? Come on man that does not sound like banking to me. They have it absolutely made.
And according to dmcd (sounds like he knows what he is talking about) 92% of the schools are ALREADY spending more on each kid than they are making. Why should the school pay this kid to come live the life while getting a free education when the kid is a net loss?
Essentially you assume that all of them want to play video games, getting laid constantly, free alcohol etc. Probably most like it, and if you refer to my example most bankers would love to have everything paid for them, however, why do you have to choose for them? They work, and football is their job; that's all.
I have no pity for them, I don't think these kids should be in school; they are not qualified to be there. However, if the school is generating revenues because of them, they should be rewarded. The system is broke
You just said it. They don't deserve to be there, but they are ( and for free). They are rewarded.
I dont feel sorry for them at all. Not only do they get a full ride, they get perks. Pretty much unlimited food, they dont pay for anything on campus (books, clothes, movies, concerts,etc..), and if theyre "the man" in most towns they usually dont pay for anything around town either. Im 26, unemployed, doing an unpaid internship in the south with 50k in student loans to pay off, tell them to get some real problems...
Significance of Sports? (Originally Posted: 01/11/2007)
I was wondering the significance of participating in a D1 sport with regards to the IB recruiting process. Does it give the applicant any leeway for having a lower GPA?
Sir, muff diving isn't a sport.
Depends, how low?
I prefer athletes, to be honest. I can be generous. And yes, being an athlete helps in general.
I like athletes too, but it's gotta be something hardcore. Serious D1 stuff would probably count.
What about D3 Crew (Rowing)? We work just as hard as D1 teams except we dont get the funding or the recruiting support
I SERIOUSLY respect crew. I worked with a guy once who was captain of crew at a not-so-great school. Guy was in the office every morning at 6 AM kicking ass. The rest of us roll in at 9:30 and say, "Dude, what the fuck?" Guy says, "Oh hey, is it time for lunch yet? And by the way, I fixed all your fing comps. Now somebody bring me a fing cheeseburger."
Well, I exaggerate a bit there. But he was awesome. Crew counts as hardcore to me no matter where it is.
....haha, no i dont think that's going to help you to much. Varsity sports are definitely a plus, especially in sales, but unless u "crewed" at one of the really top schools i doubt that would be to impressive. But yes, if you played D1 football or hockey in the ivy league or something like that their will be people who want to talk to you.
Would get a plus in my book if I worked in IBD. It takes serious dedication to get up on a freezing cold morning and row while your buddies are passed out in a drunken stupor.
...D3 crew is one of those sports where you just show up on the first day and you are on the team. The 12 dudes who wake up at 6am are the only people they can find to create a team...
I don't care if it's not that competitive, man. Echoing Rickets: if I interview somebody who's psychotic enough to get up hours before dawn to row his ass off while the rest of the world is sleeping off the party hangover, I want him on my deal team. You don't do that crap unless you're after something different, something special. Crew dudes don't get sorority girls, aren't celebrities on campus, don't get buys on their grades. Those guys row because they love to row. No other reason.
And... uh... I gotta admit, I don't mind ogling their biceps in thin white shirts, either. Heh.
Bondarb - Clearly you are talking out of your ass. I dont know what school your ignorant self went to, but thats not the case at my college. Crew is a year round sport. We are always training to better ourselves. Theres no such thing as talent in crew. Its work ethic, work ethic, and more work ethic. 3 months out of the year we are on the water at 5am in the morning. Do not tell me people show up the first day and delve into that.
Youre an absolutely mockery and clearly never participated in a worthy athletic program.
AJP, you are teh hottt. Please post a picture of yourself shirtless from behind.
;)
Exactly Ms Ind. I dont know if any of you know what its like not to have a friday night in college every week out of the school year. We're in bed by 8pm to get up at 4:45 to row in the blistering cold. Or, what its like to have 2 exams in one day, with practice at 5am, and a erg workout at noon. Try being able to stay awake AND study AND maintain a 3.7
Not to toot my own horn, but if anybody is prepared for a career in IB, it would be all the rowers out there.
In retrospect, the best move I made in my life was to turn down athletic scholarships from shit schools to enroll at a more reputable university and focus on academics and professional development. Yeah rowing may give you a ripped back and biceps, but preparing you for i-banking? Please...you are kidding yourself.
Why not do both?
I played a sport in college and the GPA probably suffered because of it. Still got an IB job with no connections.
Every college athlete has the same story--practice and games during the week...all year long. Get home late, can't start studying until after midnight. Do homework on buses and in hotel rooms. Unless you're Superman (and those people do exist), you're probably not going to do as well as the people that spend all day in the library.
But, assuming the athlete is smart and can do the work, I know who I'd rather work with...
Actually, PoolSide, I'll say it again: that kind of discipline is exactly what will prepare you for i-banking. Not sure why the connection isn't being made here. Extreme discipline. Ability to perform well while exhausted. Relatively little recognition. This is an analyst's life to a T.
I also think long-distance runners are particularly well-prepared. For instance, marathoners and double-marathoners.
...sorry u woke up at 5am every morning but it just dosent change the fact that crewing at a D3 school is not a hard thing to accomplish. If you told me you played baseball at Miami or football at Penn St. I would know that you are in the top .1% of all athletes and that you absolutely worked your ass off to be better then the MILLIONS of kids in the US who wanted that scholarship. That is something special, combine that with being good enough to be considered for any job in banking or trading and i want to talk to you. Telling me you crewed at a D3 school tells me you woke up at 5am 5 days a week during the season...so what? I wake up at 5am every day and work out before work also, its not a special accomplishment i brag about.
depends who interviews you. athletes love other athletes, frat guys will cater to the houses they were cool with.
Coming from Penn, guys from the castle I'll push to final round.
but got lucky and interviewed with 2 basbeall players...one from my conference.
frats are definitely more significant than sports. if you were in a dorky frat in school, you won't make it to the interview stage.
I would think playing D1 Varsity sports takes precedence over being in a fraternity. As stated above, players are putting in 30 hours all in for their teams. Saying that the party hard drinking culture of most fraternities is more significant is just plain wrong.
Absolutely. I don't get the frat comment either, unless it has to do with having connections.
Being a college boxer and mentioning that I was training in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu got me some wierd looks...but hey at least I can console myself with the fact that I have a vicious right hand lol
...its not even close, being a D1 athlete is much better then being in a fraternity. I really don't see being in a fraternity as a positive or a negative, but i guess it varies interviewer to interviewer.
I can see being in a frat helps if your interviewer is from the same frat or your brothers have connections but that's it
if you weren't in a frat, you wouldn't understand.
Haha, whatever man.
...i guess i dont understand then, but if you came to interview for a job on our trading desk ur fraternity would be meaningless.
Fraternity membership was neither a positive nor a negative at the places I've worked. No one cares.
You probably haven't worked anywhere truly fratty or you weren't associated with the right type of people where you worked.
...i work at a firm that would probably be described as one of the "frattiest" around...but people i work with are now adults and we care about what value people add to the business not who they socialized with in college.
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Explicabo et aut atque et provident. Dolore iste sed qui consequatur perspiciatis. Quibusdam dolores nisi veniam et. Aperiam sequi voluptas non.
Libero enim dolor vel corrupti. Quis aliquid minus nesciunt ut id enim. Pariatur sed fugit amet quas dolore.
Sint optio qui veritatis. Eligendi ut voluptate harum expedita. Exercitationem totam officia vero deleniti illo quidem molestiae. Voluptatem enim iste repudiandae corrupti voluptatem labore tenetur.
Harum quo magnam dolore qui. Officiis sit corporis similique voluptates dolores rerum aspernatur dolorem. Ut ea aut sapiente deleniti.
Qui nisi dolor voluptatem et iusto. Iste quae doloremque sed qui. Perferendis cumque ut et totam illo sunt. Debitis qui praesentium tempora illum ut. Et tenetur saepe deserunt quisquam ipsum aut quo. Deserunt quia porro nihil doloribus soluta numquam.
In a et provident. Consequatur qui voluptatem qui ea vero nemo. Fugit odio et repudiandae.
Tempora ut est fugit labore laboriosam accusantium ex enim. Non veritatis id iste et dignissimos libero. Numquam qui perferendis modi est. Est voluptatem dolores neque dolore numquam rerum.
Odit corporis dolores aut corrupti non. Et quia vel ipsa fugit corrupti. Voluptatem ad fuga tempora harum.
Consequatur molestiae corporis veniam repellendus. Maxime aut deleniti ut sunt aperiam magni vel.
Vitae ut iste incidunt iure ut delectus assumenda. Velit est accusamus et dolorum quibusdam id. Ut sit eum voluptatum eveniet.
Saepe consequuntur ut amet culpa. Aut et ad saepe non sed in. Atque fuga harum iste eligendi.
Qui dolorem ut quia doloremque porro autem sed. Ipsa dignissimos excepturi provident facilis.
Ducimus aut nisi molestiae voluptas delectus alias. Provident est et a. Omnis aut reiciendis exercitationem corrupti sequi non est. Fugiat omnis labore quasi quod eligendi vel sint.
Praesentium dolorum eveniet distinctio ipsam optio esse. Cumque vel vero occaecati placeat eveniet vero vitae. Nisi aut sint amet quia reiciendis doloribus pariatur. Ab eaque aliquid id odio molestiae et ipsum voluptatem. Reiciendis repudiandae sit reprehenderit aperiam cum ullam fuga et.
Quia voluptatum fuga ut aliquid assumenda. Dolores praesentium corporis et. Harum voluptatum minus itaque. Fugit est veniam neque ut nisi.
Sit voluptas totam voluptatem voluptatibus. Quia reiciendis cupiditate aliquam doloribus iure autem. Laborum odit explicabo et reiciendis.
Dolores aut impedit occaecati est et provident magni. Nihil placeat eos nulla voluptas ex minus. Vel omnis consequatur natus culpa quam sapiente. Quisquam sunt minima expedita dicta maxime illum aliquam.
Porro cumque laudantium ut consequatur. Reprehenderit esse consequatur officia ad quia sed. Voluptatem porro deleniti aliquam quo. Corrupti dolores omnis quia voluptate voluptatem eum. Officia rem dolorem minima perspiciatis.
Architecto aliquid qui pariatur assumenda et quam. Autem et et omnis quidem. Mollitia impedit numquam at tempore ipsum sunt. Nostrum reiciendis sed corporis neque aspernatur voluptatem ducimus ducimus. Animi pariatur rerum et similique. Porro qui saepe officiis consequatur qui dolorem ipsam. Impedit eum enim et. Reprehenderit reiciendis incidunt architecto odit recusandae.