What Qualifies as "Relevant" Coursework?

For one aspiring to a career in the financial services (ie IB, S&T, ER, etc.), what courses qualify as relevant?

Here's my take:

Tier 1: Finance Courses (Accounting, Investments, Corp. Fin., etc.)
Tier 2: Economics Courses (Micro/Macro, etc.)
Tier 3: Math Courses (Stats, Calc, etc.)

I know some people that only list Tier 1 on their resume, some Tier 1 & 2, and some all three, while others don't list any at all. What do you think?

 

It will be somewhat irrelevant to place a large emphasis on tier 3 for buyside/sellside ER jobs imo, as most fundamental analysts rarely utilize deeply quantitative research methods (Google "fundamental analysis"). I've heard of 1 out of 100 weaving monte carlo into his analysis.

If you want to own the logic behind building a resume (in your best interest), try to establish deep connections between a role/position you are applying to and your background.

 

First of all, congratulations on your offer!

Here's another free resource to learn accounting: http://learnaccountingforfree.com

Go through all the videos and you'll have a better understanding of accounting than most of your peers who took the class at school. There are also some advanced accounting courses that you can take through the same company, but they cost $50-$99/class, if I'm not mistaken.

Damodaran is another good resource, and you can take his MBA-level classes on Valuation, CorpFin and Investment Philosophies online for free: http://pages.stern.nyu.edu/~adamodar/

 

From my experience the most relevant courses out of undergrad have been in accounting as you will be analyzing f/s and building models. Know how the 3 f/s flow (outside of memorizing questions found in interview guides; i mean truly understand it) and pick up as much intermediate accounting as you can. An entry level corporate finance / finance 101 type class will also be helpful. Don't look like you've never seen excel before also.

 

practice on your own portfolio as if: understand what pays out in short term vs long term based on your assumptions; determine what will work for you over the long term, you may have less time later to invest for yourself.

 

I m still in college, but I suggest Monetary Theory/Economics, it's very useful for a finance major in order to understand better what affects interest rates, dunno if you can apply this knowledge directly to IBD.

 

Economics classes, duh.

Also, Japan in the Modern World. That country basically told itself, in the 1860's, "Fuck it, we suck compared to the rest of the world. We may be small and feeble now, but we're going to set our eyes on greatness and damn be the next Western power who dares to pick on us." They did a complete rehaul of their military and state government, owned China and Russia (in 1895 and 1905, respectively), and was considered part of the "Western powers" for some time. That kind of drive and ambition is inspiring.

Currently: future neurologist, current psychotherapist Previously: investor relations (top consulting firm), M&A consulting (Big 4), M&A banking (MM)
 
chicandtoughness:
Economics classes, duh.

Also, Japan in the Modern World. That country basically told itself, in the 1860's, "Fuck it, we suck compared to the rest of the world. We may be small and feeble now, but we're going to set our eyes on greatness and damn be the next Western power who dares to pick on us." They did a complete rehaul of their military and state government, owned China and Russia (in 1895 and 1905, respectively), and was considered part of the "Western powers" for some time. That kind of drive and ambition is inspiring.

And then they decided to take a swing at the world's strongest power... OOPS!

 
chicandtoughness:

Economics classes, duh.

Also, Japan in the Modern World. That country basically told itself, in the 1860's, "Fuck it, we suck compared to the rest of the world. We may be small and feeble now, but we're going to set our eyes on greatness and damn be the next Western power who dares to pick on us." They did a complete rehaul of their military and state government, owned China and Russia (in 1895 and 1905, respectively), and was considered part of the "Western powers" for some time. That kind of drive and ambition is inspiring.

Took a sociology of Japan class. Considering in less than 200 years, they went from the one of the least advanced to most advanced civilizations is crazy.

"It is better to have a friendship based on business, than a business based on friendship." - Rockefeller. "Live fast, die hard. Leave a good looking body." - Navy SEAL
 

Math classes are good. Inevitably, the more math you do, the more intelligent and better of a critical thinker you become.

The difference between successful people and others is largely a habit - a controlled habit of doing every task better, faster and more efficiently.
 
Best Response

Everyone's been posting about the usual classes that are relevant in IBD (econ and related), but I'm gonna go ahead and suggest a couple that might not seem as directly relevant:

  1. Basic CS classes. I'm sure most of you dicked around with programming on the TI 83/84 calculators back in the day, but knowing a bit of VBA goes a long way in being able to make your own macros and scripts.

  2. Philosophy/Humanities classes, especially those that emphasize writing. You'll never have to talk about Kant's categorical imperative in the real world, but you will learn to present arguments and information in a very specific way. Granted that writing in IBD isn't the most emphasized of skills (especially since there are often specific ways to present things), but it can't hurt.

 

My school's business school offers an Investment Banking Essentials class for undergrads. Basically puts you through an M&A, a bond offering, an LBO, among other deals. It's a great way to get hands on experience and I would check to see if your school has any similar classes.

 

Relevant for IB? Neither. You're not going to use anything beyond high school math. Actually even the high school math might be an overkill since it covers stuff like trig/logs/basic derivatives etc. So more like middle school.

If you want to do something quant-ish in the future, you're probably going to need both, and way beyond that - at least the multivariable calc and diff. equations, but real analysis is desirable. You need the analysis for serious stuff within the probability/stats anyways.

For consulting, stats can be useful sometimes, econometrics even more so (regressions, cluster analysis, things like that).

Honestly, for IB (if you're dead set on it), dropping both calc and stats and picking up some accounting and maybe some lower-level computer science classes (like algorithms, VBA etc) is going to be much more useful and gives you some technical skills to include on your CV. If you really have to pick one, I'd pick advanced stats cause it sounds superficially more complex/impressive to a layman.

 

Thank you for the advice! The other classes that I am signed up to take are: financial accounting, intermediate microeconomic theory, and essential desktop applications (teaches proficiency in PowerPoint, Excel, etc.

And I am not dead set on IB long-term. Ultimately, I either want to do PE or Hedge fund, and I don't go to and have a 4.0 at Wharton or Harvard, so I'm probably not getting hired by any good buy-side firms directly out of undergrad. That being said, based on everyone I've spoken to and everything Ive read, IB is the surest way to buy-side.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by intermediate calculus course, but you probably need at least Calc 2 (better to have Calc 3 since there's multivariate integration) to deal with probability models involving continuous functions. I doubt either is relevant for IB, though most kids have probably completed Calc 2. To be clear I'm considering: 1. Calc 1 (limits, derivatives, perhaps an introduction to basic integration) 2. Calc 2 (single variable integration, series and sequences) 3. Calc 3 (multivariable calculus)

 

Math major, stats are the only thing that I've ever used. That being said, if you don't know MV cal & lin. algebra you can't really learn stats.

 

Probability and stats would probably be the best along with econometrics. Only place I've seen them are in CFA material, but it is helpful in those regards.

People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for freedom of thought which they seldom use.
 

Also a math major. I take math classes because I like them, the probability of any of them being concretely useful in finance is pretty low.

Heck, most of the time even when their course material is being applied it's more about having an intuition about the math than being able to do it. Although a high level of the former tends to bring the latter with it in my experience.

 

Take as many accounting and finance classes as you can. It will make the day to day a lot easier. You will want to focus your first year learning your sector as most people automatically assume you're up to speed on the finance part. Economics is nice to know but its not really pertinent to your job as your not going to do any econometric modeling or forecasting things like CPI. On the other hand the portfolio management class will help you with your CFA level 3 and understanding the thought process of asset managers. Also that IPO class would help a lot if you end up doing an IPO yourself on the job.

 

@Kings, Thanks, I was feeling the same way. I forgot to mention I'm on the path for the honors program where two additional financial accounting courses are required on top of the basic financial and managerial ones. It would be interesting to look at the other acc electives and see if its worth tacking another one on.

@future, unfortunately no.

 
spiral9:
Math classes for investment banking ?

Algebra I... wait no scratch that, maybe pre-algebra.

Jack: They’re all former investment bankers who were laid off from that economic crisis that Nancy Pelosi caused. They have zero real world skills, but God they work hard. -30 Rock
 
  1. arithmetic
  2. basic idea of continuous math (e.g. know what a derivative is, know what an integral is), basic discrete probability, basic understanding of regressions (know what a correlation is!). Everyone knows this of course. Some people have an advantage when they're well versed in VBA though- if you want to count that as a "quant/math" class. *Also it's always a good idea to know a little more math than required. You can't master Pre-Elem Algebra until you've taken Elem Algebra.
  3. no idea. But I would imagine it depends on what area/industry you're consulting for! (oil industry? financial risk management? software company?)
 

For trading, whether quantitative or not, you need to know about pricing vanilla products, especially options. If they ask you what the Black Scholes formula is, you have to know what the normal distribution is, why you can use the risk-free world, what is the relation between the BS formula and the discounted payoff discounted... I got these kind of questions for a front office role in derivatives trading (not quant).

And as said above, you need to know what correlation is, what covariance is, what a distribution is, what a linear regression is, how to calculate basic derivatives, integrals, etc.

 

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