College tuition in U.S. is too jacked up

It's scary to know that the full sticker price at many private universities are over 50k per year, including living expenses. Four years, that's over 200k. And, the cost of tuition keeps going up every year.

I attended a private institution myself, and the full sticker price at my alma mater is around 40k a year now, just for tuition. This is just ridiculous. Heck, I can buy myself an Audi A5 with that cash.

Fortunately, I was able to get a decent amount of financial aid from my college. As a working professional, I now know the value of each dollar I pull in, especially in this economy. Call me crazy, but if I am looking at attending Harvard undergrad for sticker price, I would kindly decline and attend a strong public school that offers me full ride.

Right now, I see too many problems with the educational system in the U.S. College tuition too expensive. Even at public schools. There is no control of supply of universities, resulting in mass over-supply of college graduates. Let's face it, everybody and his grandma has a college degree nowadays, so it means jack shit in job market. It is no news that so many of college educated people in U.S. don't have a white collar professional job now, or work in jobs that don't require a college degree.

European educational system looks better to me. Government subsidized tuition in Germany, so people attend schools nearly free until PhD. Also, only those who are academically qualified are allowed to attend colleges, resulting in tight control of supply of college graduates. It's a more efficient allocation of labor.

I am sure U.S. can do better than this. Frankly, this is just a mess. I am now beginning to accept the possibility that I will never attend a graduate school the remainder of my life, unless I get sponsored for the MBA program by my employer. (highly unlikely) The tuition is just ridiculously expensive, and it can easily ruin a young adult's life with an enormous debt. Education should not entail this much of a financial gamble for those who pursue it.

 

Graduate schools in business/economics are very accommodating. I completed my phd at harvard in 2006. Everyone in my class was awarded a research assistantship which amounted to 33k per year (summer included). Granted it is not a lot of money. But I was able to skate by without incurring a single penny in loans. Afterall, I spent the majority of my time studying/working and left sundays to attending parties/bbqs etc. And before that, I received a full scholarship to UCLA and graduated without debt.

I think the problem with many students is that they don't attend schools with large endowments where more grants/scholarships are offered.

And quite frankly, there are universities in areas which simply don't have a lot of white collared jobs. I now live in a suburb of california. There aren't very many corporate or white collar jobs here unless you're in education, government or health sciences. Let's just say, there isn't a single IB/Consulting/Big4 firm nearby. You could literally be a finance wiz from any HYSP and still not find a job here in finance unless you wanted to sell life insurance and mutual funds.

It is not about the title that you have, it is about how much money that you have.
 
StrongMan:
Graduate schools in business/economics are very accommodating. I completed my phd at harvard in 2006. Everyone in my class was awarded a research assistantship which amounted to 33k per year (summer included). Granted it is not a lot of money. But I was able to skate by without incurring a single penny in loans. Afterall, I spent the majority of my time studying/working and left sundays to attending parties/bbqs etc. And before that, I received a full scholarship to UCLA and graduated without debt.

I think the problem with many students is that they don't attend schools with large endowments where more grants/scholarships are offered.

And quite frankly, there are universities in areas which simply don't have a lot of white collared jobs. I now live in a suburb of california. There aren't very many corporate or white collar jobs here unless you're in education, government or health sciences. Let's just say, there isn't a single IB/Consulting/Big4 firm nearby. You could literally be a finance wiz from any HYSP and still not find a job here in finance unless you wanted to sell life insurance and mutual funds.

There is a Harvard Ph.D. that is a managing director, trolling around in WSO???

 

I agree with this completely. It truly blows my mind how expensive education has become and even more worrying is the fact that it's not becoming any less expensive. I think over time this might correct itself. Right now, the prevailing attitude is that going to college (any college) > just a high school education and that the difference in salary will pay for the tuition. I think over time, as more people realize how expensive college is and how may not lead to a "good" job, less people will attend and prices will lower, but this is a shift in perspective that will require a couple of generations to transpire (if at all it occurs)

 

1) It's nice to have rich parents.

2) Everyone DOES have a college degree, but from dog shit Tier 3-10 schools (ITT Tech, Ivy Tech, Devry, UoP). It only validates the reason to go the absolute best school you can get into.

3) Why would you ever choose a top state school like UVA, uMich, or UNC over Harvard, when they cost the same out of state? That was a pretty dumb and hypocritical statement coming from an Ivy grad.

 
3) Why would you ever choose a top state school like UVA, uMich, or UNC over Harvard, when they cost the same out of state? That was a pretty dumb and hypocritical statement coming from an Ivy grad.

Assuming you are good enough to get into a top Ivy, you probably are good enough to get near full ride at any public school.

HYP offer good financial aid. But, many upper-middle class kids get screwed. Basically, if your parents make over 100k, or if they own liquidity valued at certain level (house, etc), the schools don't give you enough fin aid to make the education "affordable". I mean, my parents make around 150k a year, combined. However, they aren't in a position where they can easily afford 50k/year tuition expenses for their kid, considering the fact that they live in a high COA area, have 2 other kids to support, have mortgages to pay, and need to save up money for their retirement.

Granted, if you are dirt poor (parents' combined income

 

College isn't free in Europe, someone else just pays for you. And free college means more people staying in college and delaying entering the work force.

The USA has ~30% of its population with a bachelors degree. Not everyone and their grandma. You can also thank guaranteed government loans which have driven up the cost. College can be relatively cheap if you put in the effort. Tons of grants and scholarships for smart and needy students. You can also work part time to fund your education. State schools are relatively cheap. I graduated from a T50 private university with like $10K in debt. Many people have similar stories.

If you are graduating with a non finance/STEM degree with $50K or more in debt you are doing something wrong. But that is your choice and people are free to make mistakes.

 
TNA:
If you are graduating with a non finance/STEM degree with $50K or more in debt you are doing something wrong. But that is your choice and people are free to make mistakes.

And why is that? I mean I'm graduating with 60k in debt with a STEM degree but regardless, even if it was another degree I don't think I did anything wrong. This is extremely subjective. I paid for all of my private university tuition on my own with loans. I was able to pay off half with internships and part time jobs and then the other half is now loans. So if I had got a major in Communications, that would of been a mistake?

Frank Sinatra - "Alcohol may be man's worst enemy, but the bible says love your enemy."
 
yeahright:
TNA:
If you are graduating with a non finance/STEM degree with $50K or more in debt you are doing something wrong. But that is your choice and people are free to make mistakes.

And why is that? I mean I'm graduating with 60k in debt with a STEM degree but regardless, even if it was another degree I don't think I did anything wrong. This is extremely subjective. I paid for all of my private university tuition on my own with loans. I was able to pay off half with internships and part time jobs and then the other half is now loans. So if I had got a major in Communications, that would of been a mistake?

The whole "only major in STEM subjects" thing really only becomes important if you're at a mediocre school. A Harvard kid with a philosophy AB will be fine, but a guy at Texas A&M should probably choose petro engineering over psychology.

 
yeahright:
TNA:
If you are graduating with a non finance/STEM degree with $50K or more in debt you are doing something wrong. But that is your choice and people are free to make mistakes.

And why is that? I mean I'm graduating with 60k in debt with a STEM degree but regardless, even if it was another degree I don't think I did anything wrong. This is extremely subjective. I paid for all of my private university tuition on my own with loans. I was able to pay off half with internships and part time jobs and then the other half is now loans. So if I had got a major in Communications, that would of been a mistake?

People can do whatever I want, but if you are coming out of college with substantial debt, from a non T20 school and a non finance/accounting/STEM major, it will take a while to break even. Considering that communications, history, liberal arts, whatever tend to be lower paying than say a business or STEM degree.

All I am talking about is ROI. You drop $100K on an accounting degree and come out making $60K, you are in a better position than someone paying the same amount and making $40K. Strictly ROI.

 
TNA:
College isn't free in Europe, someone else just pays for you. And free college means more people staying in college and delaying entering the work force.

The USA has ~30% of its population with a bachelors degree. Not everyone and their grandma. You can also thank guaranteed government loans which have driven up the cost. College can be relatively cheap if you put in the effort. Tons of grants and scholarships for smart and needy students. You can also work part time to fund your education. State schools are relatively cheap. I graduated from a T50 private university with like $10K in debt. Many people have similar stories.

If you are graduating with a non finance/STEM degree with $50K or more in debt you are doing something wrong. But that is your choice and people are free to make mistakes.

This is why I don't understand the rhetoric about student loans. Somehow that public believes that lowering interest rates on student loans is a good thing. It just drives up the cost of tuition. You just end up with degree inflation, where the BA is the new High School diploma. I could have the same skills I do now with a HS degree and 6-12 months of extra work experience.

I was lucky to get into the school that I did. They gave me tons of aid and I graduated debt free, and had plenty of spending money from work/internships.

But I know people paying >30k in tuition alone for BAs and MAs in subjects like theatre and creative writing (and not at top college - we are talking art schools). Most do not have real career plans - these are people in their 20s who want to "act". No contingency planning. I literally don't understand it. Is the 0.1% shot of becoming famous worth years of poverty if it doesn't work out?

 
If you are graduating with a non finance/STEM degree with $50K or more in debt you are doing something wrong. But that is your choice and people are free to make mistakes.

I know a fair share of STEM degree holders - from Ivies - who weren't able to land decent jobs, so they had to head to grad school, incurring formidable levels of debt.

CS, EE, or Pet.Eng are the fields that are hot. But, STEM degree includes "life sciences", such as Bio and Chem, both of which are not very marketable to most of employers. Even a BS in math or physics doesn't guarantee employment post graduation.

 
This is completely untrue.

This is true at my firm. I work at a Big4 firm, in a consulting department. Last year, I referred a couple of my friends from college who were struggling with employment, for employment opportunity as an analyst at my firm.

My manager ended up hiring 2 people from state schools, over the kids I referred (both of whom HYP grads). As my manager said "I don't care what school they went to. I hire people who I would enjoy working with."

At my firm, I see a ton of people from 'non-target' schools. The only exception to this rule within Big4 would be Deloitte Consulting's Strategy & Operations group, which only hires grads from top schools.

 
IvyGrad:
This is completely untrue.

This is true at my firm. I work at a Big4 firm, in a consulting department. Last year, I referred a couple of my friends from college who were struggling with employment, for employment opportunity as an analyst at my firm.

My manager ended up hiring 2 people from state schools, over the kids I referred (both of whom HYP grads). As my manager said "I don't care what school they went to. I hire people who I would enjoy working with."

At my firm, I see a ton of people from 'non-target' schools. The only exception to this rule within Big4 would be Deloitte Consulting's Strategy & Operations group, which only hires grads from top schools.

I understand that there are plenty of industries where pedigree doesn't matter too much. I called you out for saying that only consulting and IB care about your background -- there are plenty of other industries where pedigree matters even more (journalism, entry-level political jobs, competitive non-profits, etc.).

 
Things have changed significantly over the last ~8 years or so. Financial concerns really should not affect your decision these days (at HYP). Many of the other Ivies (and other top-tier schools), however, still can cost an arm and a leg.

I graduated from HYP 2 years ago. I know the fin aid policy in and out. If you come from an upper middle class income bracket, you fall into the position where the school doesn't hand you out enough money to make the cost of attendance truly affordable. If your parents make 150-200k combined, you are not rich enough to dish out at least 30-35k a year for tuition after fin aid is factored in, yet you don't qualify for more aid. These kids end up getting screwed.

 
IvyGrad:
Things have changed significantly over the last ~8 years or so. Financial concerns really should not affect your decision these days (at HYP). Many of the other Ivies (and other top-tier schools), however, still can cost an arm and a leg.

I graduated from HYP 2 years ago. I know the fin aid policy in and out. If you come from an upper middle class income bracket, you fall into the position where the school doesn't hand you out enough money to make the cost of attendance truly affordable. If your parents make 150-200k combined, you are not rich enough to dish out at least 30-35k a year for tuition after fin aid is factored in, yet you don't qualify for more aid. These kids end up getting screwed.

Harvard now only charges between 0% and 10% of a family's income up to $150k/year. Plenty of families who make more than $150k/year still qualify for a good amount of financial aid.

 
holla_back:
IvyGrad:
Things have changed significantly over the last ~8 years or so. Financial concerns really should not affect your decision these days (at HYP). Many of the other Ivies (and other top-tier schools), however, still can cost an arm and a leg.

I graduated from HYP 2 years ago. I know the fin aid policy in and out. If you come from an upper middle class income bracket, you fall into the position where the school doesn't hand you out enough money to make the cost of attendance truly affordable. If your parents make 150-200k combined, you are not rich enough to dish out at least 30-35k a year for tuition after fin aid is factored in, yet you don't qualify for more aid. These kids end up getting screwed.

Harvard now only charges between 0% and 10% of a family's income up to $150k/year. Plenty of families who make more than $150k/year still qualify for a good amount of financial aid.

You are forgetting other things they take into consideration, such as liquidity (housing, investments, etc), pension accounts, retirement savings, etc etc. It's not just the income level they look at.

My parents make slightly more than 150k a year combined, they own a middle class house, and have other liquidity. I had to pay way more than "between 0 and 10% of family's income" for cost of attendance.

 

People make choices in this market. If someone chooses to go into serious debt for a college degree then that is their decision.

The last thing the USA should be doing is emulating Europe. If you want to see prices lowered you should remove student loans. That will force people to make hard decisions real quick.

 

The public is made up of morons. Hence why they think lowering rates on student loans will do anything and why they think taxing the rich will magically make the world better.

Sheep are sheep for a reason.

I always find it funny how people bitched about not being able to afford college and how the government should help. Then the government does and people bitch about the loans. Moral of the story is no good deed goes unpunished.

 

TNA,

In UK there is an interesting caveat to student loans - if you don't pass a certain income treshold, you don't have to start paying back your student loans. What would you think about applying similar system in US + adding risk-sharing element to the schools itself (inflows from state are tied to the success of graduates). Not sure how it would work at undergrad level, but something like this would be good to tame TTT law schools a bit.

"The HBS guys have MAD SWAGGER. They frequently wear their class jackets to boston bars, strutting and acting like they own the joint. They just ooze success, confidence, swagger, basically attributes of alpha males."
 
IvyGrad:
Fortunately, I was able to get a decent amount of financial aid from my college. As a working professional, I now know the value of each dollar I pull in, especially in this economy. Call me crazy, but if I am looking at attending Harvard undergrad for sticker price, I would kindly decline and attend a strong public school that offers me full ride.
I have to call you crazy then, especially since you're a graduate of a top school. You're not realizing the scarcity of opportunities coming from a bad school if you're not majoring in CS or engineering.
 
Thurnis Haley:
IvyGrad:
Fortunately, I was able to get a decent amount of financial aid from my college. As a working professional, I now know the value of each dollar I pull in, especially in this economy. Call me crazy, but if I am looking at attending Harvard undergrad for sticker price, I would kindly decline and attend a strong public school that offers me full ride.
I have to call you crazy then, especially since you're a graduate of a top school. You're not realizing the scarcity of opportunities coming from a bad school if you're not majoring in CS or engineering.

I would take the engineering, CS, or accounting/finance degree at a cheap state school, getting full ride, rather than going to a top private school if I can't get much fin aid.

I know plenty of HYP grads who are unemployed or work in shit jobs, or had to go back to grad school to re-train for job market, since their history/ biology/ poli sci degrees didn't do shit for their employability. One of my best friends was a Poli Sci major from HYP, graduated 2 years ago, and has been living out of his parents' basement tutoring SAT as freelancing. Now imagine ending up in such spot with six figure school debt. As HYP is known to be very generous with fin aid, the % of students that end up in that scenario will be quite low. However, that % would be something ppl can't ignore at schools such as NYU, Georgetown, Cornell, Northwestern, or Notre Dame. (I am just coming up with a short list)

If you attend a non-target school on full ride, well, at least you don't have any financial risk or loans to pay back in case things don't work out. Also, at my firm, I see a ton of people from non-target backgrounds who are plenty successful. Hell, the three directors I know at my firm in my department all went to directional state U's that I've never heard of, yet they all clear high six figures.

 

I support the current system. People who make dumb decisions can pay their loans back or go into non-profit and have them forgiven after a period of time. Or I support removing student loans and having people simply work their way through school. Either way will develop responsibility.

People are dumb. Plain fact. No matter what is done, dumb people will keep being dumb. People have been joking about liberal arts grads working at McDonalds my entire life and I am sure way beyond that. Yet people take out massive loans and then complain.

I would loosen the bankruptcy restrictions for student loans. People should have the ability to legally discharge their debt. Not fully loosen them, but middle ground. And maybe risk price the loans based on major and GPA. Something like that. Let people know history degrees from Coastal Carolina isn't going to get treated the same as an econ major at Cornell.

And stop loaning to for profit universities. They are a joke and junk.

 
TNA:
I support the current system. People who make dumb decisions can pay their loans back or go into non-profit and have them forgiven after a period of time. Or I support removing student loans and having people simply work their way through school. Either way will develop responsibility.

People are dumb. Plain fact. No matter what is done, dumb people will keep being dumb. People have been joking about liberal arts grads working at McDonalds my entire life and I am sure way beyond that. Yet people take out massive loans and then complain.

I would loosen the bankruptcy restrictions for student loans. People should have the ability to legally discharge their debt. Not fully loosen them, but middle ground. And maybe risk price the loans based on major and GPA. Something like that. Let people know history degrees from Coastal Carolina isn't going to get treated the same as an econ major at Cornell.

And stop loaning to for profit universities. They are a joke and junk.

So you support the system where a college is free to charge 50k a year, despite the obvious fact that their degree ain't nowhere worth that much of an investment. US is the only country in the world that suffers from this exact problem. Talk to some international Asian or European students, and ask their opinions about the cost of tuition here in U.S. It's about 10 times more expensive to get your damn diploma, even compared to our neighbor Canada.

Also re Econ degree. I was an econ major from HYP, but I am seeing the degree doesn't carry much weight. I was able to secure a decent job with it, so no complaints there. But, when I began interviewing for some prop shops, hedge funds, or other niche finance shops, the most common feedback I heard from my ding e-mails was that my educational background wasn't "quantitative enough for our position".

I think Econ at an Ivy, much like a generic MBA, is only good for vanilla IB or consulting analyst gigs, but not much outside that. Then again, considering the fact that IB's and consulting firms hire English and Poli Sci grads from Ivies, I fail to see how Econ degree in and out of itself carries much distinct advantage or value with employers.

 
IvyGrad:
<span class=keyword_link><a href=/company/trilantic-north-america>TNA</a></span>:
I support the current system. People who make dumb decisions can pay their loans back or go into non-profit and have them forgiven after a period of time. Or I support removing student loans and having people simply work their way through school. Either way will develop responsibility.

People are dumb. Plain fact. No matter what is done, dumb people will keep being dumb. People have been joking about liberal arts grads working at McDonalds my entire life and I am sure way beyond that. Yet people take out massive loans and then complain.

I would loosen the bankruptcy restrictions for student loans. People should have the ability to legally discharge their debt. Not fully loosen them, but middle ground. And maybe risk price the loans based on major and GPA. Something like that. Let people know history degrees from Coastal Carolina isn't going to get treated the same as an econ major at Cornell.

And stop loaning to for profit universities. They are a joke and junk.

So you support the system where a college is free to charge 50k a year, despite the obvious fact that their degree ain't nowhere worth that much of an investment. US is the only country in the world that suffers from this exact problem. Talk to some international Asian or European students, and ask their opinions about the cost of tuition here in U.S. It's about 10 times more expensive to get your damn diploma, even compared to our neighbor Canada.

Why would the best university system in the world--the United States'--attempt to emulate objectively inferior global products?

TNA is clearly saying that the system is fine how it is if they made some adjustments to the issuance of student debt. The only reason universities are charging $50,000/year for tuition is because they can because students are being issued loans and other forms of financial aid pretty freely. You start to risk-adjust student loans or to ration student loan money then all of a sudden those tuition prices begin to fall. It's basic, fundamental, rudimentary supply and demand. A rational, market-based student loan system would force prospective students to make rational, economically viable decisions about their scholastic and professional futures. We don't need an inferior European or Asian model thrust upon us--we just need to get back to 1970 in terms of financing student debt.

I made a rational economic decision to go to a good in-state university and get a finance degree. I graduated with no debt and have an amazing career. If someone wants to go to Villanova and get a degree in political science then there should be an organic balance of supply and demand that would force people to make rational decisions. As it stands now, we have a system of inorganic tuition costs, artificially inflated by 40 years of government intervention of free flowing student loan liquidity that doesn't force even lower middle class and beneath students to make economically viable decisions.

 

College is so jacked up because of government approved loans. For example, salliemae. Why not raise tuition when they know the student is going to be approved for a loan anyway. Also, the more financial aid Obama encourages, the higher tuition will go. These are the reasons colleges keep raising tuition. If not everyone was approved for a loan, there's no way they would be able to have to tuition so high.

 

College is quite expensive, I graduated with over 50k in debt and it sucks...

As other people in the thread have mentioned gov't has mad it so easy to get loans that colleges are jacking up prices. In all honestly I think college can cut huge expenses, by not paying coach's 7 figures and not investing so much in building new stadiums. That money could be used for grants and to lower overall tuition.

The question is will there be a student loan bubble. Since so many grads are graduating without jobs or having a difficult time to pay off student loans. So maybe the gov't should intervene we bailed out the finance industry lets bail out our graduates and from there build a better system.

 
Best Response
TheKid1:
College is quite expensive, I graduated with over 50k in debt and it sucks...

As other people in the thread have mentioned gov't has mad it so easy to get loans that colleges are jacking up prices. In all honestly I think college can cut huge expenses, by not paying coach's 7 figures and not investing so much in building new stadiums. That money could be used for grants and to lower overall tuition.

The question is will there be a student loan bubble. Since so many grads are graduating without jobs or having a difficult time to pay off student loans. So maybe the gov't should intervene we bailed out the finance industry lets bail out our graduates and from there build a better system.

Athletic departments are generally separate institutions - their budget does not in any way take away from the university's budget. Many big schools with athletic departments that turn profits actually donate money back to the school to help departments that are struggling with funding (Florida is one off the top of my head).

In no way, shape, or form will there ever be a student loan bailout en masse like you're suggesting. There would be riots in the street from people who pinched pennies for years to pay their loans off ahead of time, only to see those who made bad decisions like 200K for a for-profit art school get rewarded.

MM IB -> Corporate Development -> Strategic Finance
 
SECfinance:
TheKid1:
College is quite expensive, I graduated with over 50k in debt and it sucks...

As other people in the thread have mentioned gov't has mad it so easy to get loans that colleges are jacking up prices. In all honestly I think college can cut huge expenses, by not paying coach's 7 figures and not investing so much in building new stadiums. That money could be used for grants and to lower overall tuition.

The question is will there be a student loan bubble. Since so many grads are graduating without jobs or having a difficult time to pay off student loans. So maybe the gov't should intervene we bailed out the finance industry lets bail out our graduates and from there build a better system.

Athletic departments are generally separate institutions - their budget does not in any way take away from the university's budget. Many big schools with athletic departments that turn profits actually donate money back to the school to help departments that are struggling with funding (Florida is one off the top of my head).

In no way, shape, or form will there ever be a student loan bailout en masse like you're suggesting. There would be riots in the street from people who pinched pennies for years to pay their loans off ahead of time, only to see those who made bad decisions like 200K for a for-profit art school get rewarded.

The only thing I'll disagree with you here is that there is some overlap in the sense that many athletic departments get a decent portion of their revenue from mandatory student athletic fees. Of course not departments like Texas or Alabama, but the vast majority get a decent chunk of revenue from mandatory fees. That can cost students $500 to $1,000 per year in mandatory costs to attend.

As an example, Virginia Tech charges $139/year for athletic fees because they have strong organic football revenue. University of Virginia charges over $1,000 in mandatory student athletic fees. Old Dominion University charges $549/year. It can add up. $2,000 to more than $4,000 in debt load over 4 years.

 

TL, DR for now.

Everyone, I think the point the OP makes about Germany's education system is very important. We need to restrict the supply of college students, and restrict college to students who are academically capable, and are not going to be high for 4 years. It is no brainer really. Close to 50% of the kids in my college are wasting upwards of 160k over the span of 4 years. They could have done something else with that time and money.

I blame liberals/liberalism for these problems.

 

Apparently I don't have enough banana points to post links due to spam guard.

So google "Virginia student athletic fees" and an article discussing it from Hampton Roads comes up. Plus I can attest to these fees from personal experience.

 
DCDepository:
Apparently I don't have enough banana points to post links due to spam guard.

So google "Virginia student athletic fees" and an article discussing it from Hampton Roads comes up. Plus I can attest to these fees from personal experience.

As can I, which is why I was confused. UVA's athletic fees aren't close to $1,000. The article says $621, and this source (http://bit.ly/TdODT0) says they are $657 for the year.

MM IB -> Corporate Development -> Strategic Finance
 
SECfinance:
DCDepository:
Apparently I don't have enough banana points to post links due to spam guard.

So google "Virginia student athletic fees" and an article discussing it from Hampton Roads comes up. Plus I can attest to these fees from personal experience.

As can I, which is why I was confused. UVA's athletic fees aren't close to $1,000. The article says $621, and this source (http://bit.ly/TdODT0) says they are $657 for the year.

I think you're misinterpreting where I went. I didn't go to UVa. But I did misread the article's quote about Virginia (I read "Virginia" like ESPN reads it. LOL).

Yes, the point remains that the athletic fees can add up. My alma mater is charging $1,465/year, according to this chart. I really think that most athletics departments are a complete drag on a school financially. You've got students paying $1,465/year at my alma mater to subsidize scholarships for a few hundred athletes to mostly play in sports few people watch. ADs at schools like Virginia Tech and Alabama are basically self funding, so their students aren't subsidizing the scholarships.

 

A collection of incoherent thoughts: - The athletic programs at Texas/Alabama/USC/etc should break off from their respective universities and become individual sports academies; it would be fun to watch the NCAA implode on itself

  • Outside of a few select bubbles, school undergrad and major is irrelevant. I graduated with a BA in math from a well known STEM school and had to absolutely hustle to find gainful employment. A girl i'm seeing graduated with a BS in bio over a year ago and didn't land anything until she completed some bullshit 10 week devry-nursing type program

  • Uncle Sam guaranteeing loans to anyone with a high school diploma is the main culprit when it comes to tuition costs. Loaning n^umpteenth kids $50k+ at no interest so that they may pursue their interests in interpretative dance is harmful to labor efficiency, honorable, though it may be

  • Unless there is a reasonable likelihood that that you will be able to pay off your loans in 5-10 years after graduating we've defeated the purpose of public education

Making money is art and working is art and good business is the best art - Andy Warhol
 

Money shouldn't play a role in education. If you're smart enough to get into Harvard (or better yet, a top public school), then you should be able to go regardless of the financial situation of the parents that you were born into. By not allowing poor people the opportunity to get a quality education, you create a plutocratic society where the wealthy are given more opportunity and class mobility is much more limited. Education should be the great equalizer, not a consequence of your parents' income.

Eliminating government loans might slightly reduce tuition prices, but college would still be expensive as fuck. The private sector would just take over to dish out student loans. And how would the private sector decide whether or not to loan you money? They'd look at the income and assets of your parents.

We need to subsidize the cost of education in order to make college affordable to everyone regardless of their parents' wealth (I'm not talking about art schools or for-profit colleges btw, I'm talking STEM majors at public universities). Not sure why this is even controversial. Education has a positive externality, and therefore the government should subsidize it (just like pollution has a negative externality and the government should tax it). We'd just need to jack up taxes in order to pay for it. Oh noe the horror!!!

 

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