Hi guys,
Just got into Columbia Business School and Harvard Kennedy School of Government.
My heart and intellectual curiosity push me towards Harvard (MPA/ID, very quanty economics with a focus on development) but I don't see myself working as a public servant. My interests are technology, telecoms (including stuff like mobile health in Africa) and venture capital. If necessary I could work in consulting for a year or two (as I already have)
Would choosing Harvard be a bad career move and to what extent?
I appreciate your help
It's a career decision- do you want to manage money or write historic speeches? Any reason why you chose to apply to Harvard's poly sci school rather than Harvard's MBA program?
I didn't get into HBS (and probably not into SGSB either). The MPA/ID is the most selective masters at HKS though.
There is a third choice actually. I can delay my admission to HKS for a year and reapply to HBS and SGSB. Problem is I don't want to waste a year and not that much will have changed on my application. Does re-applying in round 1 change much from an initial application in round 2?
It's obvious from reading your posts that your interests lie more in business. Do the Columbia MBA for sure. It's a top 7 business school and will open way more business doors than harvard kennedy school. I'm not bashing the MPA/ID at all; it's a great program, and you learn a lot, but they're just different beasts.
HBS and Stanford Business are not too friendly towards re-applicants. Unless you make MAJOR changes to your resume, you're not gonna get in. Don't waste an extra year with the hopes of getting into one of those schools. Just do Columbia MBA.
^ The Kennedy School is less a poli sci school and more a public policy school. Most people I have met in the Kennedy School in their Econ/Development track work for foreign governments in their central banks or finance/planning ministries.
can you do both via a joint/dual degree?
My perception of the Kennedy School is that it exists largely for rich foreigners to get "Harvard" on their resume.
This may be totally unfair/not reflective of the program overall, but is true for 83.3% of the Kennedy MPAs I know.
^Agreed. MPA is kinda a back door entrance into Harvard. The admission is just easier.
The masters program at the kennedy school is not as well respected as harvard law/business/med because they are much easier to get into. But going back to the OP's question, it is possible to arrange a joint program between the two schools. The logistics may be tough to figure out, and it will probably require a lot of commuting between NYC and Boston but certainly feasible. I know a guy who did Penn MD and MPP at harvard, for example. If your career interests lie in business (consulting, venture capital, strategy, etc) I don't see what value an MPA/ID would have. But if you want to engage in policy and work at a think tank, central bank, etc., then kennedy school is obviously a better bet. If you REALLY want both and are willing to commit 3-4 years and the extra money towards it, then try to do both concurrently.
No 3 years is just too much + I'd have to re-apply actually. Don't think being admitted separately into both automatically gets you into the joint degree.
I already have a BSc + MSc in management (pretty common in Europe) so I don't think I'll learn that much with an MBA. I'll get the brand + the network. The questions is, can the HKS brand pull off what CBS can if I want to be say a Google exec in the long term?
Why don't you get a MPA at harvard and then move into something like global macro hedge funds?
No way he's gonna get a gig at a macro hedge fund straight out of MPA unless he gains work experience at a central bank/World Bank/IMF/think tank for a few years.
Now I don't personally know anyone who has done an MPA at the Kennedy School, so I can't speak intelligently to this, but aren't you guys selling the Kennedy School a little short? I would think it's probably the most respected government/public policy school in the country (if not the world?)
I think it is the most respected government school in the world, and perhaps the largest producer of heads of state per student. I've been dreaming about Harvard for almost a decade. It would kill me to give it up to study something I've studied before in a "top 7" b-school.
I'm definitely not the right person to advise on this, but I would think that Illini hit it on the head - just depends on what you want to do. KSG most likely does not churn out VCs.
I've been obsessed with Harvard since fifth grade, so I understand your attachment. But even for me, given my career goals, there is no way I would take kennedy school over Columbia MBA.
What do you want to do right after school? Do you want to work in business, or are you more into working in policy or government? If it's the former, this is a no-brainer.
Moreover, an elite MBA is way more than what you actually learn in the classroom. It's about the network, the social experience, and the plethora of on-campus recruiting opportunities. And this doesn't even include access to an exhaustive alumni database and job postings that are exclusive to students and alums. At the end of the day, harvard's kennedy school, as esteemed as it is, ultimately is a policy school, NOT a busness program.
Of course - I guess what I was taking issue with was it being called a "back door" into Harvard. I'm in no way affiliated with the school and don't plan on ever applying, I just thought maybe that you weren't giving it enough credit considering its reputation.
You tell folks in the evangelical church you studied at Moody Bible and they look at you like there must be something wrong with you. They ask you questions like "How did you manage to give up drinking, dancing, and watching movies for four long years?" "What is it like to spend all of this time volunteering at homeless shelters and drug rehab centers in lieu of tuition? What's your craziest story?" (No, I never went to MBI, but I have friends who have.) In the widest circles in the religious world- at least in the US, MBI's MDiv looks a lot more awesome and has a much better pedigree than Harvard's.
MBI is absolutely free, they take anyone who says they're a Christian, and it is arguably the most rigorous divinity program in the country- particularly for evangelical Christians. It's created some of the best missionaries, evangelists, and church leaders of the past 50 years.
OP should have applied to Georgetown if he wanted to go into politics. But it sounds like what he really wants to do is business- given that he also applied to the business school. I would take Columbia- it's a pretty good program.
LOL at the divinity school prestige rankings.. only on WSO
Thanks guys for all the advice.
I'm still leaning towards Harvard though. I can cross-register with HBS and take a number of MBA classes (hopefully up to 20-25% of all my classes). Given my MSc+MSc in Management + 2.5 years in management consulting, 770 GMAT etc, I think I can still convince an employer that I'm a good business guy.
The classes at HBS will to some extent give me access to its network and demonstrate interest.
Tread lightly. Harvard's MBA program is very territorial when it comes to select programs and who gains access to certain alumni groups that involve businesses/Vcap/H-funds etc. If you really want to gain contacts from HBS, just remember that people will say to you a hundred times over, "I'm confused. You're in the MPA program but you want to go into business?" I've seen it happen. Both at Harvard and schools like Northwestern. Be certain to plan your story accordingly.
so youre basically prestige whoring on the harvard name hardcore even though you KNOW you want to do business as opposed to just getting an MBA? sure you can convince but you wont have access to HBS OCR or anything like that
destined to be a bloodbath. dont see why youre trying to complicate it.
Yeah. This is not exactly the way to convince folks that you're serious about investment banking.
"So, you're interested in banking, but you decided to go for an MPA from the Harvard Kennedy School. Why not an MBA?"
"Uhhh, I got into Columbia, but was rejected from Harvard's MBA program. However, I thought Harvard had a nice jingle to it and figured I would do an MPA there instead and maybe sneak in a few courses from the MBA program."
"Interesting. So what you're saying really is that you turned down a pretty good MBA program and spent two years of your life getting the wrong degree because of prestige. Very interesting. Oh well, I got my MBA from Baruch and had a lot of fun at it, but everyone has their own perspectives, I guess."
Interviewer looks at his form, marks poor/unsatisfactory on the "Cultural Fit" and "Business Interest" ratings for your candidacy and starts quietly wondering to himself when the interview will be over.
I have no interest in investment banking. I'm interested in general management in industries such as tech or telecom and in the longer term VC (through industry/entrepreneurship, not through banking). If I can link this to development themes, then that's just gravy. Examples: mobile money or mobile health ventures in Africa, Google/Vodafone developing world strategy etc. I realize that this is perhaps not the appropriate forum to ask for guidance in these industries.
An MBA would not bring me that much in terms of content. I've had four years of management, finance, marketing courses etc. At HKS I'm getting PhD-level economics which I actually find to be fascinating themes. I just don't want to end up as a bureaucrat in a process-obsessed institution.
Basically the same deal. If you want to be in business management, why the heck would you get a political science degree?
It's mostly an economics degree.
Because I am interested in the business side of development and want to learn something new.
This program seems like a relic of the 1940s-70s when central bank heads were academics.
If you want to go into economic policy or work at the fed, this would be a good degree, but that's not what you want to do. Since you want to work in VC, I'd definitely steer you away from a macroeconomics master's program.
Really, unless you want to work at the Fed or the Treasury, this is not the degree for you. You are the only person on this forum who seems to think the MPA is a good idea and continues to insist on it. You've seen several experienced pros in the business world try to dissuade you from this track.
I just have to ask- did you come here to get advice or have your opinion affirmed?
Maybe you need to take a step back, assess the situation rationally, and really listen to all of the offline people I'm sure you're getting advice from who are probably telling you to also do the Columbia MBA- which may have been what drove you to seek our affirmation in the first place. As for me, I am not going to affirm what I'm convinced will be seen as a $100K mistake in ten years if your real passion is anything outside the public sector.
Dude... Harvard or bust.
I don't know much about an MPA program (nor the MBA program really) so take my advice with skepticism.
For the sake of argument, I'm going to go against the grain and somewhat agree with you. Everyone is saying that you should go to business school since you want to do business. Well, the consensus is that going to "business" school doesn't teach you much about running a business in first place, so there goes that argument. It's more about the people that you meet, and is the caliber of students at Columbia MBA really going to be heads and shoulders above that of Harvard Kennedy? In fact, people that were arguing against the Kennedy school mentioned that its students are rich, foreign, and typically end up at high positions in government, central banks, or international organizations. Given that you want to work somewhat internationally, this group of people sounds like a much better connection to make than students at business school, where a majority of students would define success to be making Associate at a bank or a consultant at MBB. Lastly, public policy seems to be what you want to learn. Your career is important, but so is your personal fulfillment.
I agree.
OP, I dont get it, you mention that you have done the MSc in Management and dont really want to go through same/or similar aspects in an MBA. Yet you still applied to several by the sounds of it and contemplating going to an M7 school? No expert or anything, but get a clear goal in mind.
I speak from experience. Went to Oxford for my law degree and did a masters. Started my first job in a law firm and thought, this isnt for me. So I quit. So to sum up, be absolutely sure what you want to do.
Saying that, I am pursuing an MPP with aspirations to remain in consultancy or possibly work within emerging markets research/strategy. I have admits at several business schools as well so I sympathise with your dilemma.
Its certainly possible to find positions you mentioned and Harvard is Harvard after all, whether its Divinity or even Extension. But stick with the sure thing. Columbia is a great school so I would perhaps go with that.
I have an admit at Duke Fuqua for their MMS so likely gonna end up there.
The OP may be able to take classes at HBS, but he will not have any access to their on-campus recruiting or networking events. Sure, you may be able to make some friends who are students at HBS, but that's about it.
Given your interests, I have no idea why you want to do an MPA. Columbia MBA is a great program; you will get great opportunities, have access to an awesome network, etc. It seems like you're just stuck on getting a Harvard degree.
In the realm of finance I tend to believe that the MBA has more oomph than MPA (in banking, not so sure about other areas). Even an MBA from a well recognized local school is good to have. An MBA from CBS is even better. A lot of people would love to have CBS on their resume.
I was under the impression that SIPA at Columbia was also well respected, and although there is no degree equivalent of an MPA/ID as at HKS, it is among the concentrations that you can choose. Have you approached Columbia and Harvard about the dual degree? I'm pretty sure that HKS is open to a remote dual degree, haven't seen anyone at Columbia do it, though. I do, however, think that a dual degree is the way to go. And if I had to choose one, I would go with the MBA. The things you say you want to do, it's still within the realm of business, just doing that MPAesque things in the business frame. Even if you end up going the "typical" MBA route post-degree, you'd merely be shifting focus--going from BCG to Bridgespan, switching departments within a large corporation, etc. Even if a non-profit doing mobile health were to seek a candidate, most likely they'll seek someone with industry experience in telecom or healthcare. Also can't disregard the steadily growing popularity of MBAs going into, and being sought out by, the non-profit sector.
I really don't understand your goal's, you claim to want to do quant phd level economics, yet come from a background of 4 years of undergrad and masters in bullshit(excuse me management)?
If those courses are genuinely phd level econometrics focussing on development you will get screwed in more ways than you can imagine.
lets also put it this way. many agree that you really don't "learn" much at top business schools. despite this, many of the most successful people between ages 25-30, many of whom have worked in finance to develop some kind of a resume and networks of their own, gladly drop ~$100k (and more, if you include forgone income) for the MBA. it's really all about the job opportunities and career progression--it's just that much harder without.
I've gone for the MPA/ID because:
Congrats on the decision - both of your choices were top notch, so I feel like you really can't go wrong. Just depends on what you feel is best in your gut. I probably would have made the same decision.
Hahah
Anyone with any insight..I have a similar problem but more in regard to actual placement rather than prestige of the university I attend.
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/cornell-mpp-v-duke-mms-v-tufts-mi…
Just got a full scholarship for CBS. This could change things.
How do you think you got a full scholarship at CBS??
Scholarship is based on academic excellence, professional promise and moral leadership for a European student. On that moral leadership point I probably differentiate myself from the CBS crowd most strongly because I've worked in African war and post-war zones for 18 months with a well known NGO and because I intend to get into a line of business with impact on development.
I would venture to say a full scholarship at CBS on your resume will be far more impressive than Harvard MPA, but that's just my opinion.
Well the scholarship is going to end up on my CV anyways. Even if I decline it, I did get selected for it and the signal value is there.
Just out of curiosity how much is tuition (accounting for all years) for the Harvard MPA?
40k/year vs 50k for CBS
If you turn down a full scholarship at CBS, I would venture to say that it would be in your best interest (and in the interest of your personal safety) to remain as anonymous as possible on WSO.
Is Patrick Bateman going to throw an axe in my face?
I think recruiters will make you go into "justification mode" when they see you turned down a full-ride to CBS.
Depends how you spin it
MPA
what did you decide? I am also deciding between MPA/MPP vs MBA - ultimately I am interested in public policy consulting (e.g. at Booze, Bain etc).
do you regret your decision? just how "quant" are the HKS courses (assuming you went there?)
Columbia MBA >>>>>>>>>>> poly sci grad program at Harvard. Columbia MBA gets you sick recruiting for banking, consulting, and investment management jobs. I'm not sure if those employers would recruit out of Harvard Kennedy School of Government, but my guess is they won't recruit as heavily as Columbia MBA.
Edit: you got full scholarship offer from Columbia mba and asking this question?? Btw, just curious, what type of work experience did you have prior to applying for mba? congrats on such an awesome offer.
Thanks :-) My work experience was 1.5y consulting, 1.5y ngo in africa, 1y tech startup.
The thing is I am not really into any of the jobs you mention.
I got a full ride at HKS in the end too but deferred admission.
Thanks for all your information and it was helpful for me..
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