Corporate finance from a target school...a waste?

I'm a rising freshman headed to Dartmouth this fall. Most on-campus recruiting at Dartmouth seems to be geared for IB, consulting, etc. However, I value work-life balance over money (to a reasonable extent), so I've been looking into other careers in business such as corporate finance.

My parents, on the other hand, want me to consider more lucrative options...especially because we will be paying the full sticker price for that diploma.

Would going into corporate finance be a waste of a $200K education, as my parents keep insisting? How's the lifestyle in corporate finance at a F100 company?

 

tl;dr- go to Dartmouth for your first year, research options while you're there, reevaluate after first semester

Okay, a few things:

1) CorpFin positions don't usually start at 60-65k. A "normal" corpfin position will likely start in the 35-55 range, with FLDPs in the the 45-65 range (highly dependent on company).

2) You haven't even started college, so I highly doubt you know what you want to do. Getting the best education possible is always a smart move.

3) There are high-paying jobs that take 60 hours per week as opposed to the ~80 average in banking. A lot of traders work 12 hours/day, 5 days/week. If you can make it to the buyside (asset management, private equity, etc) straight out of school, your hours will likely be less than 60. If you're working at a smaller investment bank as opposed to Goldman/MS/etc, there's a good chance you won't be working 80 hour weeks.

4) Additionally, the top corpfin programs like GE's FMP aren't going to be 40 hours/week. They're going to be more like 55-60, including time in the classroom (there is a classroom aspect to many programs). Once again, this depends on the company. Some you'll never work more than 45 hours, others you'll find yourself pulling 60+ regularly.

5) If you can put up with a couple years of 80 hour weeks, or even 60 hour weeks, it'll do wonders for your career in the long run.

If you're already worrying about the amount of time you'll spend at work, you're probably going to be unhappy in the workplace for a long time. The great thing about finding something you love is being able to pour time into it without that stressing you out. I'm not saying you have to work in banking or pull banking hours for life, but if you can build yourself up to putting in 60 hour weeks in some job function with occasional spikes, it'll help a lot. Also, most successful people don't just work 40 hours per week and go home, and those that do usually had to work to get to that point.

I'd stick with Dartmouth for now. If next year or the year after you are absolutely sure you want to get into corpfin (which, don't be fooled, is usually more accounting-focused), then you could switch to a state school and save a lot of money. Also keep in mind there are jobs like being a financial adviser/wealth manager/private banker that are usually going to be in the sub-60 hour weeks category. You should really look into your options, though (this includes for school, you'll want to see if your state's schools have recruiting for corpfin/FLDPs/whatever).

Last piece of advice: Ivies are for people who want to be exceptional. You can be exceptional working 40 hours per week, but you probably aren't going to be exceptional thinking, "I only want to work 40 hours per week and not a second more".

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer "Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee
 

I'll share my background. Went to an ivy and joined a corporate finance program at a F50. First thing is you have to look at the role. Some programs (like GE FMP) are rotational so you'll see a lot of the finance functions such as financial planning and analysis (FP&A), Treasury, etc. as well as the less glamorous finance functions like controller or tax. Mine is not rotational so it was important to me to get a role I wanted and I am currently in a FP&A type role which I have enjoyed so far.

As far as lifestyle I would say it's pretty good. Work roughly 9-6 or 7 each day with some later nights when things get busy and basically never on weekends. Comp is decent (NYC) and first year all in (base+bonus) I'll break 80K with 10K base bumps each year of the program.

My long term goal is to go to business school in 3-4 years and then switch into banking at the associate level. The track record in my program for good business schools (Columbia, Kellogg, Booth, NYU, Yale) is very solid and I think with my ivy background and corp finance position I have a good shot of breaking in.

If you want to break 100K your first year or have dreams of going to PE then really your only option is banking. I personally enjoy the program I'm in and I think it sets you up for opportunities to either go to business school or switch to consulting/business development type roles in the future.

 

I am going to get a lot of hate for writing this post, but here it goes.

I'm a rising senior at an ivy similar to Dartmouth (Columbia/Brown/Upenn) and currently interning at a tier 2 consulting firm (OW/ATK/LEK/Deloitte). I had the opportunity to intern with GE's FMP (which considered the "best" corporate finance job) last summer as a sophomore.

There are 2 big differences between working in corporate finance and consulting: the work (duh) and the people. I would argue that the work in consulting is a lot more interesting and a lot less cookie-cutter. Although I can't say that I'm contributed much value in my current role and that consulting is super exciting, literally all I was doing at FMP is drawing process maps, auditing, and building templates for "simplification". Say what you will, but I would also argue that the people in consulting are, on average, much smarter and more motivated than those in corporate finance. Remember, I'm talking about your average FMP vs a BA at MBB (I think it's fair to say that a CFO at one of GE's businesses is just as smart as a Partner at MBB). From my limited experience, the vast majority of kids who were doing GE's FMP were doing so b/c they were attending non-targets and couldn't break into IB/consulting. Very, very few actually wanted to stay in corporate finance.

I will say, however, there is one "benefit". Because GE and other F500 don't tend to recruit at Ivy League schools, you will be one of the very few. For better or worse, people swoon over you. For no apparent reason, people think that you are so smart and in some way, superior to them. People instantly changed their view of me after they find out where I went to school--some people looked at me with envy, while some looked at me with jealous anger. While this may flatter some people, I just felt really uncomfortable and out of place and knew that GE wasn't a place where I wanted to start a career.

You must keep in mind, however, that only the top 10% will get IB/consulting jobs, regardless of what school you go to. That's just how it goes. The benefit of going to an Ivy is that it's a lot easier to land interviews, but in the end not everyone is going to get these coveted jobs. If not, GE's FMP and other FLDPs are great ways to start. Even at my ivy, GE's FMP was considered a "good" job (you'd be surprised at how many kids graduate unemployed). You can get definitely get into a good business school and transition into another field (or you can stay with GE and be like Jeff Immelt).

I can't speak much to IB, but I imagine it's pretty similar.

Let me know if you have any questions.

 
a12345:

I am going to get a lot of hate for writing this post, but here it goes.

I'm a rising senior at an ivy similar to Dartmouth (Columbia/Brown/Upenn) and currently interning at a tier 2 consulting firm (OW/ATK/LEK/Deloitte). I had the opportunity to intern with GE's FMP (which considered the "best" corporate finance job) last summer as a sophomore.

There are 2 big differences between working in corporate finance and consulting: the work (duh) and the people. I would argue that the work in consulting is a lot more interesting and a lot less cookie-cutter. Although I can't say that I'm contributed much value in my current role and that consulting is super exciting, literally all I was doing at FMP is drawing process maps, auditing, and building templates for "simplification". Say what you will, but I would also argue that the people in consulting are, on average, much smarter and more motivated than those in corporate finance. Remember, I'm talking about your average FMP vs a BA at MBB (I think it's fair to say that a CFO at one of GE's businesses is just as smart as a Partner at MBB). From my limited experience, the vast majority of kids who were doing GE's FMP were doing so b/c they were attending non-targets and couldn't break into IB/consulting. Very, very few actually wanted to stay in corporate finance.

I will say, however, there is one "benefit". Because GE and other F500 don't tend to recruit at Ivy League schools, you will be one of the very few. For better or worse, people swoon over you. For no apparent reason, people think that you are so smart and in some way, superior to them. People instantly changed their view of me after they find out where I went to school--some people looked at me with envy, while some looked at me with jealous anger. While this may flatter some people, I just felt really uncomfortable and out of place and knew that GE wasn't a place where I wanted to start a career.

You must keep in mind, however, that only the top 10% will get IB/consulting jobs, regardless of what school you go to. That's just how it goes. The benefit of going to an Ivy is that it's a lot easier to land interviews, but in the end not everyone is going to get these coveted jobs. If not, GE's FMP and other FLDPs are great ways to start. Even at my ivy, GE's FMP was considered a "good" job (you'd be surprised at how many kids graduate unemployed). You can get definitely get into a good business school and transition into another field (or you can stay with GE and be like Jeff Immelt).

I can't speak much to IB, but I imagine it's pretty similar.

Let me know if you have any questions.

I wouldn't disagree that the standard for consulting hiring is a lot hiring than the standard for corporate finance but I can't complain because otherwise I wouldn't have a job.

 
Best Response

i don't think it's a waste, but i personally would not attend a very expensive school if your primary goal in the beginning of your career is work-life balance. if you are good enough to get into an ivy league school you could most likely pull some decent scholarship money at a solid state school where getting into a top finance leadership program post graduation is likely. even if your parents are footing the bill, why spend their money on an education you aren't going to use to the fullest.

my advice, you have an extremely rare opportunity to attend an ivy league school. 99% of people your age do not have that chance. forget work-life balance for now. go to dartmouth, work hard, and get the best possible job you can, whether that is banking, consulting, or even something else. don't pass up opportunities because you want work-life balance when you least need it. work-life balance matters when you have a family, not before.

 

Not sure what all of this work life balance is about? I mean, you don't have to work in IB (could do ER, AM, etc) if you want to not be killed and at least have weekends. But in all honesty, what is a 22 year old going to do with their life "balance" that is even worth sacrificing money for? I'm not trying to be condescending, but you are at the prime age to kill yourself in your career so that the road won't (hopefully) be so rocky and unpredictable down the road (not saying that it would be rocky in CF, but your income growth will likely be a little slower).

If you do IB or ER, you could also try to make the jump to FP&A for a better work/life balance down the road.

People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for freedom of thought which they seldom use.
 

Your question sounds pretty dumb. You may have the thought that your time is best spent making money, but you can't honestly believe that everyone has that mentality.

I can tell you what I did when I was 22 with my free time - hang out with friends, go to sporting events, workout, chase girls, go to bars, play beach volleyball, travel etc... Yes, an IB analyst probably made $30k more than me at 22, but I'd take the balance and less money again if I had to do it all over again.

I can make more money, I won't get more time. Hell, now that I'm 30, I'd write a $30k check tomorrow to have that free time again and participate in the same activities (but travel more).

You conclude your post with the suggestion of doing IB to FP&A - that just seems ridiculous.

twitter: @CorpFin_Guy
 

i don't think the issue here is wanting work-life balance. to each their own. i know i'm quickly approaching an age where i will be more than happy to bust out of the corporate grind and find a job with a standard 40 hour week. the thing is, he and his family are paying $200K for an ivy league education. it's very easy to lose perspective, but $200K for college is no joke. people save for 20+ years to allow their children the opportunity to attend a school of that caliber. that's years and years of sacrifice. my point is, there are less expensive college options that will allow a smart person to walk directly into a job where you pull in $50K in exchange for a chill 40 hours. i understand that college is not just a business investment, but it's not 4 years of discovering yourself either. having gone though college, i think most of us can agree that in a lot of respects you are buying access. access to jobs, a network, and other benefits that will give you a greater chance of becoming more successful than your peers. paying for that access and not taking advantage of it is no different than buying a membership to equinox and going once a month.

 

No matter what field you decide on, stay at Dartmouth. Having an Ivy League name on your résumé will be invaluable regardless of where you work. I don't see anything wrong with corporate finance. With your degree and intelligence, you should get noticed and rise through the ranks quickly. My salary started in the mid 40's but increased 85 percent over my first 4 years and I rarely worked over 40 hours a week. If you're good you can clear six figures by age 30 and get up to the $200k range mid career, and make considerably more if you make executive level.

I also disagree with sacrificing your early 20's for your career. Looking back, the 3-4 years after college were the best of my life. Traveling, working out, sports, night life, meeting girls...you couldn't have paid me any sum of money to work 80 hour weeks. Accountingbyday said it well - you can never get that time back.

 
Anihilist:

Not sure what all of this work life balance is about? I mean, you don't have to work in IB (could do ER, AM, etc) if you want to not be killed and at least have weekends. But in all honesty, what is a 22 year old going to do with their life "balance" that is even worth sacrificing money for? I'm not trying to be condescending, but you are at the prime age to kill yourself in your career so that the road won't (hopefully) be so rocky and unpredictable down the road (not saying that it would be rocky in CF, but your income growth will likely be a little slower).

If you do IB or ER, you could also try to make the jump to FP&A for a better work/life balance down the road.

Do you have a life or any friends?

 

Thank you for your help, everyone. As a rising freshman still aglow with high school naiveté, I really appreciate your help.

A quick clarification: I'm a girl, if that changes your thoughts (which it might.) For one, this means I can't spend all my 20s climbing the corporate ladder. I grew up in a home where both my parents were constantly absent from my life because they work demanding jobs with frequent travel. For this reason, family and work-life balance are extremely important to me. I hope to start a family in my 20s and be a supportive presence for my future husband and children, at least while they are still young.

<em>bird</em>:

the thing is, he and his family are paying $200K for an ivy league education. it's very easy to lose perspective, but $200K for college is no joke. people save for 20+ years to allow their children the opportunity to attend a school of that caliber. that's years and years of sacrifice. my point is, there are less expensive college options that will allow a smart person to walk directly into a job where you pull in $50K in exchange for a chill 40 hours.

To be honest, my parents use the tuition thing as a way to guilt-trip me, more than anything else. Rest assured that they are not using their life savings to send me to Dartmouth. I also received full-tuition to USC and a full-ride to UNC, but ultimately decided on Dartmouth because I wanted a small college with a liberal-arts feel.

D M:

5) If you can put up with a couple years of 80 hour weeks, or even 60 hour weeks, it'll do wonders for your career in the long run.

Last piece of advice: Ivies are for people who want to be exceptional. You can be exceptional working 40 hours per week, but you probably aren't going to be exceptional thinking, "I only want to work 40 hours per week and not a second more".

I'm not as concerned about advancing my career as I am about providing financial freedom (e.g., the freedom for my kids to choose Dartmouth over UNC full-ride, as my parents have done for me.) This is not to say that I don't intend on using my education to the fullest; I absolutely do plan to challenge myself and pursue a productive life/career.

I'm not a genius (i.e., 4.0 GPA without touching a textbook), but I'm a driven worker who loves challenges. In high school, I switched around between a couple different things, from piano to speech to writing to economics, and received state/national accolades in all of them. However, I also need 6+ hours of sleep to function...which is why I'm put off by IB, consulting, etc.

Thus, the reason I'm interested in corporate finance is because it seems to have reasonable work hours without being too stressful. Can you assess the validity of my observation? Or am I looking into the wrong industry based on what I've described?

 

@takeittothebank and accountingbyday: I don't think I was being clear. I was merely suggesting that, while working in CF right out of school is not doubt a great long run career and you will earn a lot, it doesn't open up as many doors for you as I think banking would. How many 22yo kids know what they want to be doing in 15 years time? I am more willing to sacrifice my body for working hard now, than when I am 30 and at my age, can also manage to make it out with friends and go out some.

I currently don't work in banking, so of course take my words with a heavy grain of salt. I wasn't proposing to do IB as a career, but right now when I get off work around 6pm, I honestly don't really have that much to do with myself. Maybe I'm just an unimaginative, boring person, but no matter if you're doing IB or CF, you will not be doing much on weeknights anyways. If you want to do well at your job, even if you are in CF and working 9to5, you can't be getting hammered with your friends every night. Also, analyst stints are only 2yrs long and allow for greater lateral mobility in the finance world than what CF would. I have friends who are doing CF at a F50 out of undergrad, and from what they are doing, it is nothing on the level of FP&A.

But I'm not condoning work over fun/time well spent. I just think you have to look further down the road and feel that many kids my age fall into the trap of "oh, well I'll work my way up and be making good money by the time I'm 30".

People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for freedom of thought which they seldom use.
 

Worrying about hours per week at work as an incoming freshman is ridiculous. If you would have asked incoming freshman me if I would want to pull 60-70 hours a week I would have laughed and slapped you. Now? There are many days I wish I could cold call earlier and later. Effing standard business hours messing up my deal flow.

Commercial Real Estate Developer
 

It's good that you're planning ahead, but I think you're thinking too much about this. You want to start a family in your 20's? How do you know that? You haven't experienced life in any way yet. I'm not going to get into why I think that's a stupid idea because it would be pointless. Plus, to each their own. One piece of advice: be open. You're going to need to be if you don't want to hit a mid-life crisis at 30 or 35 because you got sucked into a life you don't really want.

You're right, most 22 year olds don't know what they want. You don't either. That's why you should start with the best job you can, or at least put yourself in the position to get the best job you can. The last thing you want is to be 25 with a degree from a mediocre college, in a dead-end job, and nowhere to go.

And you can't make blanket statements about what is and isn't going to be stressful. Some corpfin jobs will be, some won't, most will have stressful times just like any other job. You're likely going to be stressed out if you don't like the job or aren't fulfilled by it.

With your current attitude, corpfin is probably right for you. That will also likely change at some point in the future.

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer "Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee
 

I graduated from an upper echelon non-target and turned down an ER role that would have me working 12+ hours a day for a 9-6 job at a CRA. Now, I don't know yet if it was the right decision, but I do know I don't regret it.

I've noticed people have the tendency to self-select into the lifestyle they fit in best. If you are finding yourself gravitating towards the business hours job, then that's probably what you ought to go with.

You can make money working good hours. ESPECIALLY if you're from a target. Are you ever going to be making over 300k a year? Maybe not...do you really need to?

 

May be a stupid question, but are we talking about the corp. fin. positions like a Big 4 auditor could exit into at the senior level, or are we talking more banking related corp. fin? I always get a little confused between the different terms, like F500 corp. fin. vs. banking corp. fin. vs. FP&A, etc.

 

OP is referring to F500 corpfin (internal corpfin). FP&A would fall under that heading.

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer "Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee
 

Officiis et excepturi vero neque in quis nisi. Veniam ullam aspernatur modi iure. Perferendis sed maxime dolores reiciendis quo. Vel iste dolores cupiditate ipsam tempore qui. Consequatur est rerum non incidunt laborum ab.

Provident voluptates in perferendis quo. Sint voluptatem ut tempore voluptas sit. Incidunt quasi harum eveniet hic voluptatum quis sunt. Nam quis dolor quis et.

 

Magni voluptatem consequatur repellat optio molestiae suscipit optio. Ut omnis non laudantium fugiat. Est iure reiciendis molestiae voluptates.

Praesentium ut magnam mollitia sapiente est iste. Molestiae molestiae soluta deserunt quia. Illum velit aut aliquid impedit sit quos perspiciatis assumenda. Quidem expedita quia facilis quibusdam corporis eius. Consequatur voluptatem consequuntur unde qui.

Eum distinctio fuga vel aliquam. Amet porro vel nisi.

Deserunt totam nisi et quisquam. Omnis aliquid ullam quo omnis qui a. Id qui corporis facere voluptatum molestias animi consectetur repudiandae. Veritatis excepturi et est minima eum id sequi. Sit asperiores voluptatibus consequatur omnis quam minima non. Sapiente ex recusandae quidem.

Career Advancement Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Jefferies & Company 02 99.4%
  • Goldman Sachs 19 98.8%
  • Harris Williams & Co. (++) 98.3%
  • Lazard Freres 02 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 03 97.1%

Overall Employee Satisfaction

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Harris Williams & Co. 18 99.4%
  • JPMorgan Chase 10 98.8%
  • Lazard Freres 05 98.3%
  • Morgan Stanley 07 97.7%
  • William Blair 03 97.1%

Professional Growth Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Lazard Freres 01 99.4%
  • Jefferies & Company 02 98.8%
  • Goldman Sachs 17 98.3%
  • Moelis & Company 07 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 05 97.1%

Total Avg Compensation

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Director/MD (5) $648
  • Vice President (19) $385
  • Associates (86) $261
  • 3rd+ Year Analyst (13) $181
  • Intern/Summer Associate (33) $170
  • 2nd Year Analyst (66) $168
  • 1st Year Analyst (202) $159
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (144) $101
notes
16 IB Interviews Notes

“... there’s no excuse to not take advantage of the resources out there available to you. Best value for your $ are the...”

Leaderboard

1
redever's picture
redever
99.2
2
BankonBanking's picture
BankonBanking
99.0
3
Betsy Massar's picture
Betsy Massar
99.0
4
Secyh62's picture
Secyh62
99.0
5
GameTheory's picture
GameTheory
98.9
6
dosk17's picture
dosk17
98.9
7
DrApeman's picture
DrApeman
98.9
8
CompBanker's picture
CompBanker
98.9
9
kanon's picture
kanon
98.9
10
numi's picture
numi
98.8
success
From 10 rejections to 1 dream investment banking internship

“... I believe it was the single biggest reason why I ended up with an offer...”