CCIM, is it worth it?
Hey guys, I have a question about the CCIM, I am still in undergrad and looking for ways to differentiate myself from other people looking at getting into a real estate acquisitions analyst role out of undergrad.
My mentor recommended the CCIM, I have read about it and understand I need a few years of experience before completing the designation, but between that, learning Argus and becoming more familiar with Excel, am I missing anything that entry analysts should have in their arsenal? Also based off of the previous discussion about the CCIM, I have heard mixed reviews as to the importance of this for the investment side of real estate as opposed to the brokerage side.
Also interested.
It's a well respected designation in the RE industry. I'm working on knocking the classes out now. My company is paying for it so I couldn't find a reason to say no while I'm there. It takes a while, but it is worth it. Two guys in my group just finished the whole thing and got their designations. If you can get it for free, you basically get to take trips places and take these classes while there, do it.
Nothing wrong with the designation, but I doubt taking classes toward it will differentiate you as an undergrad. The CCIM designation is absolutely not mandatory in real estate, but for those who have it and are considering an applicant's resume they know that it is basically a certification that an applicant has reviewed and certified work experience. If I were reviewing resumes it is definitely a positive that I would automatically consider.
Assuming you're doing the normal method of obtaining the designation (through the portfolio) then you could theoretically knock out the work experience requirements in a few months depending on your deals.
CCIM is held by far more brokers/mortgage bankers than analysts/associates at investment firms
Most of the CCIMs are brokers doing commercial sales of less than $5M and leasing. Not really any benefit to getting the designation unless you are a broker in that niche and want to be part of the "network".
Although I'm pretty negative on the designation, I did the education portion for the CCIM right out of college and it provided a solid foundation for core concepts.
Thanks for the insight on this topic, another designation that I heard may be useful is MAI. Has anyone had experience with this or had a colleague whom got this designation? I suppose the main thing I am trying to get across is: What should I be doing right now that would be considered above and beyond the generic business school undergrad experience.
MAI is Member of the Appraisal Institute. You become an MAI with something like 3,000 (or maybe 5,000) hours of commercial appraisal experience gathered under the supervision of a Certified General Appraiser. Not really a designation that one gets unless trying to become a commercial appraiser. I've got something like 1,200 hours of qualified experience, which is really hard to get because very few MAIs are looking to train their competition. It's a very closed-off field.
You should take the first course, commercial real estate investment analysis, it will show employers that you are motivated and willing to go the extra mile to learn and grow. Although you may be able to satisfy the portfolio requirements in "only a few months" you have to work full time in the industry for 5 years to earn the designation.
If you have a masters in real estate you only have to take one course, I just don't know if its something I want behind my name given how many low level brokers have it.
Not that it's super relevant, but you don't need 5 years of work experience to get the CCIM designation if you are submitting the traditional portfolio (where transactions are all that matters). If you are submitting through the streamlined process then you need 5 years of qualifying work experience. The CCIM Institute actually does a horrible job of explaining this on their website--I had to email them and ask the question directly to get this clarified.
Again, this isn't calling you out or anything--the Institute does a horrible job explaining this and I was totally confused as well. I have the contents of the email if you'd like me to PM or post it here.
I suppose I remembered it that way b/c I was under the impression that the traditional approach was only for brokers. I work in acquisitions/development and I used to work in consulting so I assumed I had to stick with the streamlined transactional b/c the normal streamline requires you to have the same title for 5 years.
http://portfolio.ccim.com/howtos/process.action
Did you finish up the courses and earn the designation?
For the investment side it is a "neutral" designation. It won't hurt, but at the same time an interviewer will be more like: "Oh he has a CCIM, that's cool, it shows some dedication" rather than "oh wow, he has a CCIM designation, he must be quite knowledgeable." If that makes.
If I was you, I'd just roll the time you would spend on the designation into networking. You'll probably get a much better outcome.
What if you had a masters in RE and only had to take one class, would this change your mind?
Master's in RE is on a different level. They tend to viewed quite favorably in most of the industry, as alumni groups are usually pretty tight knit. Your mileage will vary though if you are looking at a top REPE shop, as a target MBA will carry more weight.
Also, if you only have to take one class, then go for it. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, just that you get much more "bang for your buck" in other ways.
Does anyone know where I can buy second hand books and materials for CCIM? Is anyone willing to sell / give their old materials to me?
many thx Scott
I’m a bit torn on the CCIM. As a former candidate, I found the material helpful BEFORE I went to grad school. All of the classes in the CCIM curriculum are taught within the first 3 session of any graduate real estate finance class. I would recommend it if you are an undergrad looking to boost your resume and your employer is willing to pay for it. A better bang for your buck would be an MBA in real estate or an MSRE. Might be more expensive / time consuming but the benefits are greater.
As mentioned above the CCIM is held by far more brokers than investment/development professionals. Many use it as a way to differentiate themselves; so they can say know they hard skills of the industry better than their peers.
I think DC is spot on: use it as a way to better yourself, especially if you can get the education for free. Don't rely on designations in RE, as they are not looked at as being as valuable as designations in other industries (e.g. CFA to finance).
If you are an independent consultant or want to teach some classes as an adjunct, it probably adds some level of credibility to your name. The only other reason why I would bother doing it is if I was pretty junior and my company was willing to pay for it. Other than that, I don't think it makes a heck of a lot of difference.
CCIM Designation (Originally Posted: 07/28/2012)
I know very little about this designation other than that I've seen it on the resumes of some people that seem to have good careers in CRE.
Why have I never seen it discussed here? That fact, needless to say, seems to suggest it might be irrelevant or overshadowed by other credentials.
You don't see them on here because CCIM's are primarily real estate brokers and property tax consultants, both of which don't work on Wall Street.
It's a good designation, but yeah, definitely not one associated with high finance. I was on my way to getting the CCIM designation--in fact, I've got a booklet prepared and signed by my former supervisors with satisfactory project work experience--but I never took the classes. Definitely not an easy designation to obtain because work experience requirements are VERY narrow.
I think you'll find that many designations you'll end up not needing once you get the work experience/build the resume and meet the right people. It's not a designation like the CPA or JD that you need to practice your trade.
Thanks REVal and V-Tech. The CCIM websites sells the designation as a much broader credential, more on par with the breadth of a CFA it seems. They claim that the designation is for "bankers, investment analysis, developers, asset managers," etc.
In fairness to the CCIM program, the knowledge itself from the classes would probably be pretty good for anyone in real estate, from developers to brokers. So they're not entirely wrong about that. It's just that the designation itself is not going to take you to the next level--in fact, the only way to get the designation itself is to have had the transactional experience. If you have the transactional experience required to obtain the designation then you probably don't "need" the designation.
I hope that makes some sense.
CCIM will plug you into a global network of other CCIMs ready and willing to help you. Aside from the education, this is the most valuable part of CCIM. The courses are also very good. I studied finance and economics in college and the CCIM courses left me with so much more intuition on financial analysis, discounted cash flow valuation, etc. They also give you practical methods for evaluating any investment or lease transaction. Very worth it in my opinion if you're involved in the CRE industry.
Most life company lenders have their CCIM, so it must be a credential at some point for them.
I work at a life company lender, and many of my colleagues have the CCIM. They all said it was amazingly easy (given they had all worked in the industry prior to getting it) and the only reason they got it is because our company paid for it. From what I know about it, I would agree with Virginia Tech 4 ever...it will not take you to the next level in your career and mainly seems to be for mortgage and leasing brokers that need to demonstrate to their clients that they know something. I think most lenders that have it probably do because their company paid for it and they figured why not...they wouldn't really need to prove things to clients as much as the brokers would.
Does anyone know where I can buy second hand books and materials for CCIM? My wife is completing her MBA now, but the school does not have real estate classes. So I'm looking for other ways for her to study this on her own. Hence please let me know if you have CCIM materials that I can purchase from you.
FYI- This is all legal and covered under "fair use" the same as buying or selling a used textbook when you're in college. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine "The first-sale doctrine creates a basic exception to the copyright holder's distribution right. Once the work is lawfully sold or even transferred gratuitously, the copyright owner's interest in the material object in which the copyrighted work is embodied is exhausted. The owner of the material object can then dispose of it as he sees fit. Thus, one who buys a copy of a book is entitled to resell it, rent it, give it away, or destroy it."
CRE Financing & Modeling: Where should I start? CCIM? (Originally Posted: 06/30/2015)
I'm currently a Project Manager for a major Construction Management firm with ambitions of one day being able to do multi-family development for my own firm. While I have significant experience in construction and its methodology (5 yrs currently), I lack experience from an analytical/financial standpoint of development. I'd like to learn some modeling and financing aspects of the business. I was thinking of getting a CCIM designation as it seems to be a good primer for these skills and it would give me a solid base to work off of for the MSRE or MSRED I plan on doing in the near future.
While my BA is not finance or RE based, I do have a minor in Econ and I have ran through a number of books on development and the financing behind the decision process.
Would a CCIM be worth my time to learn these skills or is there another avenue I should pursue? I'd really like to become more proficient in Excel and financial modeling as well.
Thanks for your input.
Buy this book and model out all scenarios
http://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Real-Estate-Investment-ebook/dp/B0044DE…
Thanks man, I appreciate it. I already have Gallinelli' "What Every Real Estate Investor Needs to Know About Cash Flow." Haven't got around to it yet as I'm currently on ULI's "Professional Real Estate Development" text. Looking forward to reading Gallinelli's stuff, I've only heard positive reviews of him. Any other book suggestions?
It is a little dated, but it is a good one to have in your library as takes one from basics to various valuation scenarios:
"Real Estate Market Valuation and Analysis – by Joshua Kahr, Michael C. Thomsett "
RErook, you may want to try www.getrefm dot com
CCIM courses provide a good practical application on DCF analysis. The Institute provides its own Excel-based cash flow applications. Highly recommended designation for commercial investment real estate.
Breaking Into RE - CCIM/Argus/etc (Originally Posted: 11/13/2014)
So, long time lurker here. Short story, I'm 8 months or so out from leaving the military(August) and entering my last semester of B-school(IU Kelley Direct). Obviously not a target school, but still decent, and with ugrad in History from a midsize nowhere near target state school, it's going to be an uphill climb to even get a real job. I realize this. Even more so looking at an investment analyst type of role at a REIT.
That all being said, I'm looking to try and ease my transition a bit and put myself in a better position for hiring purposes. So the real root of the issue is that I've got absolutely zero professional real estate experience, and have only ever owned two properties. Granted, I turned those two into rentals that cash flow, but still not "professional" level. I feel like I have good responses for the standard "So why real estate?" type of questions, but how much would something like the Argus cert set me apart from any competition? My thought is that it would show legitimate interest in RE, whether or not the shop actually uses the software, as well as a basic understanding of what goes into a DCF for property. I'm also looking at working through the CCIM courseware online and taking the test. Obviously I wouldn't be certified without the experience, but would having the base requirements done be worthwhile? Lastly, I'm gearing up to take the CAPM exam in Dec(not enough PM hours to get PMP yet). Helpful? Hurtful? I'm not sure. The standardized knowledge there has been useful in my current role(Acquisitions and Systems Engineering for the Navy) but I'm not sure how a future interviewer would see it.
One last thing, would getting an RE license in my target market help? I've got the study materials already, I'm just not sure if that would pigeon hole me into some kind of standard sales job driving people around to SFR's..... Not interested in that.
I don't want to be overcertified and have a ton of unecessary letters behind my name, but at the same time I'd like to show serious interest without any requisite experience. It's a tough proposition I think.
Any thoughts would be helpful. Thanks!
I would absolutely recommend taking an Argus course and throwing that on your resume and even get certified if you have the spare cash. Argus is a key skill people want to see for Office/Industrial/Retail so if they don't have to teach you companies love that. Other than that I would just network and hustle.
what branch? what rank? target market? more info plz.
send me a pm if you don't want to share in the open.
Navy, LT(O-3) NFO(Goose from TopGun), looking at FL for family reasons. I've been able to find some fairly large REIT's based in FL, Tampa/Orlando/Miami, etc, so I know there's a market and jobs out there. I have a few contacts that I'm doing some networking with, but I'm out of state(in VA) so it's yet one more wrench in my otherwise imperfect plan. Working on doing some informational type meetings via phone/skype, not much success yet there.
Bottom line, I want to make sure that I'm not wasting my time working on certs that are useless when I should be spending time with my kid instead. Doesn't sound like I'd be wasting my time though.
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