Daily "Downtime"
Just curious, given that most ibankers are working 16-18 hour days, exactly how much of that time is "downtime". Downtime defined as watercooler conversation, surfing the net, sending personal e-mails, visiting friends in other departments, etc.
Does the average analyst keep working while eating lunch and dinner at his desk?
Also, I've heard some firms allow analysts some time off in the late afternoon or early evening to go to the gym, run, swim or a game of racquetball, etc. Is this correct?
Any feedback is appreciated.
the real work doesn't start until 4 or 5pm
Oh man, this is a personal peeve of mine.
I do have downtime, though not every day. There are HOURS of it sometimes, but only during the time that I would ordinarily have to be at my desk anyway.
As far as being allowed time off, yes... and no. You're not phrasing the question right. We are never "allowed" time off. If we clear it with our associates, if we're not actively working on something, if we're waiting for a turn that we know will be several hours, we might slip away -- at our own risk -- for an hour or ninety minutes to work out. If we don't do it too frequently. You do it too often, like three or four times a week, you'll start getting a reputation for not being around, and that's bad.
Unless everybody is cranking on various things, we usually shoot the shit for at least 15-20 minutes around 5-6 pm. Sometimes (like, once every couple of weeks) I can take off around 7, go to the gym for about an hour, and then come back and work until whenever.
The problem is that you're basically expected to be at your desk most of the time in case your boss needs something done. So knowing when the senior guys are on planes, at dinner, etc. really helps in this regard. And blackberries, I'm sure, have revolutionized time management for analysts (although I've never known anything else).
why not sneak off to the gym during the daytime?
1) Because you're typically working; and 2) because like I said, you need to be available even if you're not currently busy.
I guess it depends on the dynamics of the group. My own experience is just that.
Fact is, there are a lot of "reasonable" and "rational" ways to slice up the work day that would probably be more productive overall, and would make life suck less for everybody involved. Unfortunately the system is far from reasonable and rational, and a lowly cog in the wheel doesn't have the power to change it.
Right. If the system were at its most "effecient" a book would be passed along the chain from you to associate, to vp, to MD, with MD having final say in the turn, then returning it to be updated in one fell swoop. However, in most cases you are left going back and forth with the associate, who then will pass it to the VP, who then passes it back to you, and the cycle continues until the MD gets his hands on it, usually
i'd say it totally depends on the day, some days there is little to no down time at all, where as others you can spend almost half of the day fucking around on the internet trying to think of stuff to do (although these days happen less often), on average i'd say i spend 10-20% of my day shooting the shit or fucking around on the internet
Then why not just like go home? If the VP or MD needs something then he/she can call your blackberry at home. And if you need files, there are these things called thumb drives (or iPods for that matter). And you can work on it at home, and come in for 10 minutes if you need a pitchbook done. Or is this not possible because the financial data has to be kept confidential and any leak would have the client yelling and screaming? I think if ibankers were actually 100% efficient they would have 10-12hour workdays, not 28.
clearly spoken from someone that doesn't work in banking. so much to learn young child
are you allowed to use AIM or something along those lines during down time?
Disclaimer: The post above has been made by someone who is not currently employed in IBD, and has not had an interview yet...
Can't use IM in banking typically...they like to have every written communication documented via email. S&T guys do have it, though.
no I meant for personal use, i.e. you are waiting on work and want to get in touch with your friend via aim.
Disclaimer: The post above has been made by someone who is not currently employed in IBD, and has not had an interview yet...
Right...that's what I meant as well. You typically can't have it installed onto your computer at all. And even if you somehow get it installed, usually there is a firewall that prevents the connection.
That is my firm's internal policy, at least, but I imagine it applies at most other places.
For anyone saying "if Bankers were more efficient they'd only work 10-12 hour days," you are dead wrong. I was an IB intern this past summer and have signed a full time offer to start next July so I have seen why the hours are so long. Bankers ARE extremely efficient, it is just that clients have demands that may change at a moment's notice. So, if a client calls you at 6pm and says "I want to see this analysis by the morning" then you get it done. Everything is done (for the most part) with extreme efficiency, but being a client driven business, you cannot control the hours most of the time, it is in the hands of the client.
"To Know Me Is To Love Me"-Jebus Price
Policy is 90 minute dinner break but most groups ignore it.
At the end of the day, the senior people don't want you to have a life. If they give you an inch, soon you are taking a foot. It's just easier to demand 95% of your waking hours.
the aspect of banking that makes us work so long is our work is project-based. since many people are working on a project, analysts naturally can't leave early since we're the most junior. you might finish something early but we need to be on call. going home to wait doesn't work because 1)people want their stuff taken cared of NOW, 2) it might be frequent that people ask you stuff, going home is not efficient, and 3)it reflects badly on you work ethics.
young bloods learn this word...iteration
Ok.
So, for those at both BBs and boutiques, what percentage of your day would you estimate as being downtime?
young bloods learn this word...iteration
What's iteration?
Changes to the model in this case.
In Excel verbage, you have to "iterate" when there's a circular reference (by design, for instance, when you're integrating BS/IS/CF statements)...F9 will become your best friend.
What do you guys do during your downtime? (Originally Posted: 01/09/2018)
As per the thread title - what do all you guys do during your downtime (i.e. when there just isn't any work to be done)?
I ask this as my bank's (non-US, fyi) deal flow has been pretty slow lately and I was wondering if there was anything productive I could do at my desk.
Read a book: Barbarians at the Gate!
Downtime in Development (Originally Posted: 02/18/2016)
I work in a satellite office for a large resort developer. Our office comprises of a few managing directors and myself (an “analyst” that has a hand in everything) with the executives and marketing located in our corporate office. I can’t give too much more info as it would be fairly easy to figure which company I work for.
I absolutely love the company, the product we develop, project locations and my role in the company and see high potential for carry in the future. Moreover, my MDs are nearing retirement which would allow me to take over our satellite office. However, I have so much downtime, I feel I am missing out on exposure to deals and gaining the valuable development knowledge that only comes from experience. I am leading a smaller local development from acquisition to disposition which is great experience but only takes about 10% of my time (not in construction phase yet). I see bits and pieces of the larger resort developments and anticipate more responsibility in the near future.
I am in the office about 60 hours a week, my MDs only care if I’m there 30 hours and I only need about 10 of those hours for resort development related work. The other 50 hours I network, practice modeling, read, work on my personal RE investments, look for deals and read some more. My MDs are in the office about 20% of the time as they travel frequently and so I essentially learn everything on my own.
I have a decent salary and bonus but I am hungry for more deal/project experience and broadening my contacts. I actually miss the 70-hour work weeks at my previous consulting job as I learnt more.
Does anyone else in development or REPE experience this? How did you cope with the need for more adrenaline pumping, deadline oriented and deal maker mentality?
Can relate to this. Have you tried asking for more deal-oriented work/is that type of work available? Usually if you've proven yourself they'll try to give you what you're looking for. Also if you're finance savvy you can try taking on the CFA or the CAIA. That should put an end to your free time in a heartbeat.
Sounds like what I did this last summer - days of staring at the wall thinking of ways to stay busy bookended by furious days of near-constant activity. Perhaps that's just REPE at smaller shops?
Anyhow, what you decide I think has a lot to do with what you want to end up in. If this job is going to get you to a place eventually where you can get promoted to partner with carry or strike out on your own, then keep it. Fuck it, you know? If this isn't what you want to do, then move on in a professional way and keep the contacts.
Meanwhile, try to find ways to innovate there or go beyond your job title if you haven't already. Come up with better ways to do things, make suggestions, etc. Older people are hilariously inefficient sometimes. Join ULI and similar organizations too if you haven't already.
Sounds like deal flow is just to low. Why dont you try and source a couple deals on your own? If your firm isn't looking for additional deal flow, then leave. Your young and its great to hone your modeling skills but a dedicated person should be working on live deals not practicing.
What if you found a job at a similar firm and spent the other 50 hours of the week developing 5 additional properties? Being an analyst at a couple places isn't bad, it will help you create a more diverse resume.
In your experience, how many hours/week if no downtime? (Originally Posted: 10/22/2013)
Was pondering this earlier, how many hours a week would you estimate you would spend at work if most the downtime was eliminated? I came up with a completely arbitrary 50-55 real work hours. Clearly I am stuck in some of said downtime right now. Thoughts?
Varies with role. As an IB Analyst, my hours have been 70 to 80 for the most part but nothing too ridiculous (although when you say ridiculous and work hours in the same sentence, you are bound to get that reaction picture Mark Cuban had with his lawyers after he beat his case...)
100+ some weeks, 20 some weeks (more so the last few months of IB for me).
Honestly, that's a big reason behind the lifestyle in the first place. The ebbs and flows are just ridiculous
Slow days (Originally Posted: 05/18/2009)
Interns/former interns,
What did you do on extremely slow days after you've exhausted your list of websites/blogs? I've asked 5 people if there's anything I can help with, no one has anything. The group just wrapped up a deal and most people are just messing around online or doing expense reports etc.
If you seriously have nothing to do, go the bathroom and try your hand.
There is always stuff to be done - organize your desk, practice excel shortcuts, etc.
tuaj, just remember to call fudbox to clean up your mess after the act... LOL
surfthechannel.com tvshack.net
depending on the visual location of your monitor you might not have the luxury of pulling that off but also try audio books and ebooks online.
Just tell your MD that you have nothing to do and ask if you can go home.
Cold-call to source a deal?....or just watch hulu
This one time during my internship, I used the autorecord Macro thing to shade in a bunch of cells and used undo/redo to make it look like a bird swooping down from the top of a screen and picking up a turtle.
Other than that, practice Excel shortcuts and learn all the acronyms.
hulu stumbleupon addictinggames
sneak out for long lunches/walks
play tiger woods golf on ipod touch on the shitter
be creative
check
The rules for what to do when bored -
1) Don't do anything your IT department will filter/get pissed at you for. 2) Make sure you can alt+tab before getting caught - if not don't do anything you won't be embarassed to be caught seeing/doing/viewing. 3) Be at your desk. 4) Don't do something lame that your co-workers will make fun of you for behind your back (like practicing Excel shortcuts).
I would look over some of the old Excel models that have been put together for deals in the past. The more complicated the better. Looking like you are bored or having nothing to do reflects very poorly on you, even if its true. PS - don't leave until VP level and above have left.
http://www.instructables.com http://www.theonion.com http://newyork.craigslist.org/search/ers/?query=w4m
If you have an iPhone you can have fun with that.
www.sporcle.com
addicting
Thanks for that asshole, I literally wasted 2-4 hours per day, every day this week.
Keep pdf of an interesting Finance book in your gmail account. Read it when you have time, and if someone asks, tell them you need it for work.
P.S.: I usually just go on wiki and read random articles
espn.com
MY fav. sporcle: Duke basketball alumni who averaged more than 20 minutes in one of the past 5 seasons...just so many...
When are analysts least busy? (Originally Posted: 08/03/2016)
....................................................................................................
Keep in mind I work at a MM and my group pretty much only works with private companies. Earnings season doesn't affect my workflow at all. Summer is generally slower though.
Summer is always slowest, being on private side just furthers that for SA
As mentioned, the summertime (especially late July to early September) is usually when MDs and executives take family vacations. December is generally a bit quieter as well, though this does vary.
Some Analysts are surprisingly receptive to calls on weekends, so you may want to try that.
How to use Downtime at Work More Effectively (Originally Posted: 12/03/2012)
Hi all,
Currently, I'm working in corp finance at a small company and I have way too much downtime because my job is not challenging. Out of the 8 hours I work, I legitimately only do actual work for 0.5-1 hour and then just try to not be bored out of my mind for the next 7 or so. If I include the lunch break, of which I only use half to actually eat, I get closer to 8 hours of free time. That's A LOT of time to spend doing something more productive/gaining more knowledge and I was wondering if anyone had advice on how to best use this. In case it helps, my goal is to work in FP&A or corp strategy/corp dev someday, so anything that leads me more towards this would be good. I've also recently gotten interested in investing in small cap firms from a value/activist standpoint, but I'm not sure yet if that's more of a hobby that I like doing in my spare time or an actual career path I would pursue.
I'm trying to especially find good blogs on politics (I have recently become very interested in this), valuation/other finance blogs, corporate strategy and am looking for intellectual magazines that challenge my reading/writing skills. But if anyone has ideas on what else I can do to use my time more effectively, do let me know.
Thanks!
Well first off if you don't find your job challenging, I would spend time trying to build your network/reach out to people and see if there are opportunities elsewhere.
I stole this from Sandhurst, but here's a list of various market/finance/banking resources you can read each day:
-UBS Economics morning note -Bond Buyer daily digest -The Gartman Letter -American Banker daily digest -Thomson Reuters morning note -Deakbook morning digest -Dealbreaker Opening Bell -Term Sheet
You can get the UBS note at http://www.ibb.ubs.com/institutions/securities-research/economic-resear…, the Thomas Reuters morning note at http://online.thomsonreuters.com/morningnewscall/, and the Term Sheet at gettermsheet.com.
You can read DealBook and Dealbreaker during the day, as well as the WSJ (Google article names in order to bypass the paywall). I also like Wall Street Breakfast from Seeking Alpha, and Sandhurst mentioned Hedge Fund Alert as another resource he likes. John Mauldin's newsletters may be of interest as well. I find them pretty thought-provoking.
Google around to find PDFs of The Economist. You may need to download these at home and send them to your work email but if you really have that much time at work you should be able to make a serious dent in The Economist each week, which will really boost your economic/political knowledge.
If you are interested in investing and haven't done so already, you should look around for a copy of Benjamin Graham's The Intelligent Investor.
That should be enough for you to get started.
^ agreed. Emphasize the networking part
how about just asking for more work....they are paying you after all...
Day trade while at work.
As long as its Compliance okay, this^
Why not figure out what you want to do and look at jobs and recommended skill set. For example, if in trading or quantitative/model building then programming might be important. Some may prefer MBA etc.. but building skill set is important. Employees like to see those who strive for more.
If everybody is doing one hour of work per day, you could do 4 hours of work and get promoted 4X faster.
one tip. ban yourself from this site (sorry patrick). i was in your position once and nothing was better at making sure i didn't get anything productive done then refreshing WSO.
Good luck with your Small Cap Activist investing "hobby." I'm not sure what part is funnier, that you ostensibly have 10+ million dollars in investable assets or that you would have the time, connections, experience to be an activist at all.
Being an ass aside, if you are as interested in this as you claim why woudln't you be reading up on the markets during the day, learning as much as you can in your free time, and taking the other steps necessary to get into a fund that could give you this opportunity (CFA, books, networking, etc.). That you even had to ask this question (and that you work one hour a day) certainly raises red flags about your underlying work ethic.
Where exactly did I say that I'm an activist investor? I just mentioned that I had an interest in this area and am trying to learn more about it. Did I not mention that my primary interest is FP&A/Corp Dev? Furthermore, did I not start this thread asking for more materials regarding value investing and other blogs I have an interest in? So I am trying to learn more about the markets.
Furthermore, the reason I only work 1 hour is because I'm so much faster relative to my coworkers in Excel that I can get 3 week projects done in 1 week (before you attack me, no I'm not as good as i-bankers, but I'm light-years ahead of people in corp fin). I don't think it's fair to pass judgements about my work ethic without entirely knowing my situation. It's hard for me to get more work because this is just a temp position, and my managers aren't that receptive to giving me more challenging work since I might not get hired permanently (although I'm still pushing whenever the opportunity arises). Whether or not you believe me is your own choice, but I've tried on numerous occasions to ask to help with their work, learn how to use their programs, etc. but to no avail. I'm also from a small city, so networking isn't that easy, althoguh I'm trying to get more active and figure out ways to meet people.
If you're just in a temp position you absolutely need to be throwing more time into networking.
What to do in downtime? (Originally Posted: 05/14/2015)
I've been working for about two weeks at a boutique ibank, and I usually have a fair bit of downtime in the morning. I was wondering what you guys do to pass the time.
reddit.com
duolingo.com
pretty much my routine for downtime on the job.
Read the news, post too much on WSO, fiddle with my fantasy baseball team, etc.
Yeah. Hit the gym or go jogging. Another good investment of time is to find a Toastmasters club that meets in the mornings before work and start going to those meetings.
I'd also spend a bit of time saying prayers of gratitude that you actually have free time in the mornings.
jalopnik.com and take a nap.
I feel like this question should never be asked. Time is a commodity--a resource. Would you waste a commodity? No, you would maximize the utility and make yourself some green. Now what do YOU want to do with your time?
:D
I'm here reading and commenting on this annoying question
Can you really leave and go for a jog or hit the gym? I've heard of guys doing this but I just don't see how it's possible. Do people not really expect you to be at your desk or do you make up some reason as to why you weren't there of Simone needed you?
How are we supposed to know what you might enjoy doing in your downtime?
And the idea that downtime should be spent trying "to make yourself some green" seems a little misguided. How are you going to do that? It's not like you can, at least very easily, run a business while working at a bank, due to the fact that there's policy specifically prohibiting it.
This may sound insane, but talk to your superiors and get assigned to another deal, learn different software you may not be familiar with, review previous models, powerpoints and comps to become super familiar with how your guys like them and to get some industry knowledge, review the industry(s) the firm covers and become knowledgeable about them, hop on a Bloomberg terminal and just do some research, or if the boutique doesn't have robust IT controls download massive amounts of really weird porn, the kind that if you get caught no one will even want to mention because it's just too fucked up.
There was a really good thread by mergersandacquisitions78 (?) with info on how to shine as an analyst. Take a look. Don't just surf the web, take advantage of downtime and advance your career, especially at the beginning of it. Establishing yourself as a rockstar from day one can have great benefits down the line.
rub one out.
thechive.com
or listen audible books on audible
I usually read about the new developments about my field.
from another WSO thread a couple of years back
sorry in advance
http://2048game.com/
Best way to spend downtime? (Originally Posted: 10/15/2014)
I've got a lot of down time lately and I'm wondering what the best way to spend it is. Lately I've been reading articles but it gets boring and I don't think its very productive.
Read a book online? From far away it can look like you're reading a company report or 10-k or something
I would also use your downtime to tighten your story on your previous deals or projects. I knew an associate who printed this giant book of the finalized presentations, memos, sales memos, CIMs, etc. of a deal he was involved in, as well as articles surrounding the acquisition. It's a great way to prep for interviews while saying at the same time that you're trying to learn from the overall process if anyone asks.
I like to tweak my Linkedin/resume and post on WSO.
Internship Downtime (Originally Posted: 07/26/2012)
To all fellow monkeys who also browse WSO while at work:
What can I do that's productive during my free time at my summer internship? I am at a small retirement plan advisory firm (5 people) and don't really have enough work to fill up my day.
I have already taught myself VBA and am wondering what else I can do to prepare for FT fall recruiting (ER) in my spare time?
Thanks in advance
read ER reports
1) Read WSJ, FT, Economist, catch up on the news. 2) Follow a certain stock, start building a report about it or at least whether you should long/short. 3) See 2. 4) Select an industry to follow, learn the in's and out's of it. 5) ... 6) profit
In order of productivity:
1) Browse the internet for news stories which you think are relevant to your industry and send your lowest ranking guy a brief (1 line) email with some links. Don't do this every day though, once a week is more than enough.
2) Read ER reports on your sector or companies. Try to stick to in-house if possible so you don't occur charges for no good reason.
3) Go over some of the models currently being used and see if you can streamline them (only work on duplicate copies!) or put your VBA to use.
4) Learn everything you can about the sector you want to enter. Who the key players are, what affects them, what is coming up in the future which might impact them, what the policies of governments mean for those companies etc.
5) This should probably come earlier but I forgot about it and don't want to change my numbers. If you see anyone else having some downtime as well, ask them if they want to go for a quick coffee / grab lunch etc. Chat with them (preferably not too much about work) and generally give off the impression of being someone they want to work with.
thanks for the great advice, I already read a lot of news but will start reading ER reports for sure, i love software and have a programming background so ill start there
asatar - i work at a retirement plan advisory firm of 4 people + me, so we dont really have many "models" and there isnt anyone to network with that I dont already know. but thanks anyway!
Learn a new language (verbal or computer) or build a sudoku solver using vba (without copying other code).
Where do you guys go to get your ER reports?
Downtime - Average downtime during the day (Originally Posted: 05/28/2009)
What is the average downtime one usually experiences during the day?
Downtime varies based on the group within IBD.
For bankers in coverage industries with slow activity, you can leave as early as 6 PM.
You generally have a lot of downtime in the early part of the day - until around 4 PM, when senior people give you a lot of work.
BreakingBankers http://chasingconsultantsbreakingbankers.blogspot.com/
Downtime - Process of meeting a couple bankers (Originally Posted: 06/09/2011)
How much average downtime do you guys get in a day? I'm in the process of meeting a couple bankers for networking and they were able to get off work for a couple hours during the day for lunch and chat. Most of them are analysts. So I was wondering do most of you guys have that much downtime during the day?
How about at night when the senior guys are out? Do you guys ever hit the gym for 30-45min? Or grab dinner with friends/family?
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