Darden vs Fuqua
I have been accepted by Fuqua, Darden and Kenan-Flagler for Fall 2015. I received full tuition scholarships to both KF and Darden and a 2/3 tuition scholarship to Fuqua. I have a desire to work with companies trying to break into emerging markets specifically Brazil and Argentina. This leads me to want to go into a consulting firm like MBB or Deloitte or a leadership development program/internal consulting role. Eventually I would like to move on to owning my own firm. For these reasons I have removed KF from my final decision. I am completely split between Darden and Fuqua.
Both schools place very well into consulting at top firms and GM programs
Both place well into locations I would like to work (DC/Southeast/Texas)
Though I have heard that over a lifetime $30K (Tuition difference between Darden and Fuqua) is not much but with these schools being so close in my mind the financial aspect has to be taken into consideration.
Pros and Cons for both:
Darden:
Pros
Case method style of teaching appeals to my learning style
Placement into consulting due to the case method seems to have a very slight advantage over Fuqua
Alumni and current students are very helpful, very tight knit
Most helpful student body and faculty I have ever encountered
Highly intelligent student body and conversations (First coffee is an amazing concept)
Full Tuition
Cons
International appeal does not seem as strong as Fuqua
Charlottesville is a dump
Fuqua:
Pros
Location is perfect (Originally from the area)
Strong International Appeal
Programs like Fuqua on Board and Volunteering opportunities allow me to give back to the community that fostered me.
Places very well into GM and LD Programs, a core school for many companies
Love the Team Fuqua concept
Cons
Graduates have not been as responsive as Darden
Because Case Method is not as strong as Darden I am a little weary about case interviews with MBB
Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Also does anyone know if Fuqua scholarships are negotiable?
Check employment reports for both. And someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but Duke is one of the powerhouses of consulting outside the M7. I know they send more to MBB and have great placement. I was impressed with Darden's people as well, but I'm not sure I really dig the massive class workload due to the case method. I think it detracts from recruiting, or at least your time and effort spent on it.
That was one of my concerns. I am not against working hard however I have read that many of the students at Darden are overworked. As a career changer I want to ensure that I am adequately prepared for recruiting and networking events.
That was one of my concerns. I am not against working hard however I have read that many of the students at Darden are overworked. As a career changer I want to ensure that I am adequately prepared for recruiting and networking events.
didn't go to any of the above schools but ditto to charlottesville being a dump. I will say UVA kids stick together though, haven't seen the same out of dookies. UNC to some extent, but wahoos have an interesting bond.
Charlottesville is far from a dump. You need to explore more.
http://www.charlottesville.org/index.aspx?page=158
Thank you for the additional information. I would append my description as Charlottesville feels more isolated than Durham (I am a bit biased having UG in the area). However, that has been said to be a reason for the tight knit class.
Hey brofessor (sad username but then again you are a sad person) It's spelled Dukies moron..........you must be either a tarhole fan/grad or a Kensucky/Marysland fan??? I figure you are a goat head based on your pro unc (university of no class) comment
How is Durham any better? At least you are close to DC and the NE corridor.
see if you can get your schollie matched at fuqua. i dont think case method teaching = better case prep for MBB btw
Knowing people from both schools, the workload at Darden is significantly higher than at Fuqua, even during second year. Obviously it won't be IB level anywhere, but that shouldn't happen in b school anyway.
Going through 100% case method doesn't seem to help for actual interviews either. Classes are more about answering a random cold call. Professors don't make you solve the whole case by yourself in 20 minutes, which is what happens during interviews. Also it's not like only HBS and UVA uses cases, and no one else does. All schools use cases (most times for 50% of the lecture), but they just don't make your life hell around it and actually has traditional lectures where you learn the basics, then try to solve a case using it.
Also should check with some current students at Fuqua. Heard consulting hires were significantly more this year. Responsiveness around this time is difficult given first years everywhere are prepping for interviews and second years are in vacation mode/exchange. Getting 70% vs. 95% email response rate doesn't matter much for on campus recruiting anyway. Companies come find you.
Based on your pro/con analysis Darden sounds much stronger.
I was looking over recent class profiles from the schools, and this is what I found:
Darden/Fuqua GMAT: 706/694 Darden/Fuqua GPA 3.51/3.42 Darden/Fuqua Acceptance Rate: 25%/27% Darden/Fuqua yield: 46%/51% Darden/Fuqua Starting salary: $112k/$114k
So from my interpretation of this, Darden has higher quality candidates (GMAT and GPA), admits fewer applicants, yet more people choose Fuqua and they are paid more. Also from antidotal evidence, it seems that Darden is a bit more generous with scholarships, yet most people (and rankings) give a slight edge to Duke.
Is this a case of Fuqua being a newer school that’s on the rise? or is perhaps the Duke application pool is a bit more self-selective? Any additional insight?
This data (and employment reports from both schools) indicate that Darden and Fuqua are extremely similar. I would not use small data differences to make a big decision like this. Go where you feel most comfortable - your outcome will likely be the same.
Agreed. Given variation, these small data differences in GPA, GMAT, salary, etc... are unlikely to be statistically different. This decision is a matter of comfort and preference.
This data just proves similarity. Duke is known for not caring as much about the GMAT but they still admit stellar candidates. You will be in a great situation wherever you go. I think placement is slightly better at Duke (for consulting and management anyway), but you can't be wrong wherever you go.
Is there a list of where people headed from Fuqa and Darden? I want to see iBanking, Corp Development?
Edit: Google is my friend.
http://www.darden.virginia.edu/web/Recruiters-and-Companies/Recruiting-…
http://www.darden.virginia.edu/web/uploadedFiles/Darden/Recruiters_and_…
http://www.darden.virginia.edu/web/uploadedFiles/Darden/Recruiters_and_…
http://www.fuqua.duke.edu/documents/employment_report_2013-2014
Google: Darden/Fuqua Employment Reports
This came out today.
http://poetsandquants.com/2015/01/08/mckinsey-partner-chosen-as-new-dar…
Good luck with the decision. I dont think you can go wrong either way. I went to UVA for undergrad. Charlottesville is a great college town.
alew2,
I'm in a similar position as you-- I was accepted in R1 to both Fuqua and Darden for matriculation this fall. I ultimately decided on Fuqua, and while my goals are slightly different than yours, maybe some of what I found will be useful to you.
Background / My Perspective:
I work at a boutique IB in Seattle. I used to work at a boutique strategy consulting firm in Seattle, and before that, I was a grad student in biomedical engineering. My goal is to break into upper-tier life sciences consulting; neither of the places I've worked are known outside Seattle, so I'm getting an MBA 1. for the access it gives me to interview at firms that would otherwise toss my resume in the garbage, 2. for the network of people that will be joining me in similar industry functions, 3. for the education, both explicit (coursework) and implicit (working in teams, managing time expectations, learning how to frame problems).
I also limited my search to places that had a environment/lifestyle fit. I know most people around here support the belief that you go to the best school you can get into regardless of where it is...but if you're going to school to build a network, and dark cold winters make you hate everyone and everything, then you're not putting yourself in a position to succeed. Know thyself, etc.
Disclaimer about the two schools, before we get into the smackdown: I really liked them both. I would have been happy at either. There were just a handful of wild cards that pushed me in Fuqua's direction, and they may or may not apply to anywhere else.
The Smackdown:
Town Quality: As a place to live, I'd pick Charlottesville over Durham any day. I like college towns. Durham's not a college town.
Town Location: That said, Charlottesville is in the middle of nowhere, and that drive up to DC is a two-lane road nightmare. Durham's not exactly a bustling center of commerce, but it's at least close to RTP, which could matter depending on the industry you're looking at. You can also get a reasonable flight to anywhere from RDU (except Seattle, unfortunately for me). If you really wanted to be in the middle of a big city, though, you're probably not looking at these schools.
Student Quality: Hell if I know, man. Some of the students I talked to in each place seemed way over their heads, and I really wouldn't want to be stuck on a team with them. Some students seemed brilliant, and probably wouldn't want me on their team. Everyone was polite and thoughtful. Maybe there's a difference if you spent months with each group, but I'd call this a push.
Workload: This was a big difference-maker for me. If you want to spend four hours with a team late on a Tuesday night locked in a room finishing a nine-page problem set on FIFO vs. LIFO, then by all means, go to Darden. If you'd rather take those four hours and spend one of them on classwork, one of them on your club, one of them writing recruiting emails, and one of them with your significant other, then go to Fuqua.
The Darden workload is on purpose. They give you more work than is necessary, in a place far away from everything, so that you learn how to work quickly, efficiently, and in teams, because that's the only way to get everything done. It teaches you lots of teamwork and time management skills, and it's hard to get that same kind of experience without being forced to do it. You also band together with the other people "suffering" with you, and those bonds stay strong for a very long time.
Personally, I don't find that as appealing, because I've already had that experience. I know exactly what it's like to be in the computer lab at 4 in the morning, surrounded by pads of graph paper, making coffee for your team so you can present your lab results the next day. I also know what it's like to throw up after running sprints with the baseball team at 6 in the morning in the sleet. The value of these experiences is that they're hard and that you're together.
That's all well and good, but now that I've had those experiences and learned my lessons, I'd rather not just do it again for kicks. Very few people who have passed boot camp elect to go again, even if it was good for them. Takeaway here: if you have yet to have that type of intense experience, it may be the single most valuable thing you get from school, and Darden will give it to you more than Fuqua.
So if you went to Fuqua, what to do with all of that extra time? For some people, Fuqua just seems easier. I know a guy who was a career-switcher, and once he met his goal and got an offer two weeks into year 2, his goal for the rest of school was to lower his golf handicap to 5. On the other hand, it gives you more time to do what you think you need to do to prepare yourself for after school. I know another guy who has essentially done his entire recruiting process outside of the career center; he knew exactly where he wanted to recruit, and has been on something like 160 informational interviews in 2 years.
Overall Impression: If you view school as more structured, and something that "gets done to you," then I think Darden is a better model. It seems to work harder at molding people with less experience and plenty of talent into successful managers and consultants. I think this is great if you're a career-switcher, or aren't sure what you want to do, or come from a really non-traditional background, or are younger-- but grating if you have a pretty clear path ahead of you.
If you view school as an all-you-can-eat buffet, where you take what you want but aren't forced into anything, then Fuqua is a better model. It allows the flexibility to create a more tailored approach to your school time. If you're not sure how to apply that flexibility, then I think there's more likelihood that you get lost or leave school wondering what you spent your two years on.
Wild Cards (non-applicable to you): 1. My girlfriend grew up in the Triangle and loves North Carolina; 2. I'm going into Fuqua's HSM program, which is industry-specific to lifesci/biotech and doesn't have an equivalent at Darden.
Hope this is at all helpful. I've spent more time thinking about these two schools than I'd care to admit, so I'd be happy to answer a PM about any questions you might have.
Best of luck! The good news here is that there's not really a wrong answer.
Definitely appreciate the feedback and I have reflected on a lot of the same topics that you discussed above. After I attended BDW I decided that I would be heading to Fuqua in the fall as well. I agree with many of the points you made above and I think the other thing for me is that I hope to work with markets outside of the US and I just feel that the Duke brand is better globally. Personal view of course but it helped to tip the scales for myself.
Definitely appreciate the feedback and I have reflected on a lot of the same topics that you discussed above. After I attended BDW I decided that I would be heading to Fuqua in the fall as well. I agree with many of the points you made above and I think the other thing for me is that I hope to work with markets outside of the US and I just feel that the Duke brand is better globally. Personal view of course but it helped to tip the scales for myself.
Congrats, and good luck!
Darden or Fuqua MBA for IBD? (Originally Posted: 01/11/2016)
Curious to hear how Darden and Fuqua compare for IBD recruiting, particularly NYC placement. I understand they are overall peer schools, but I often hear that Darden is stronger in finance but don't have any data to back that up. While Fuqua releases a very detailed employment report, Darden is more cryptic and LinkedIn searches haven't seemed reliable.
Duke is still better. Duke is consistently top 10 in all rankings (USNews, Forbes, Buisnessweek). Darden skirts top 10 depending on which ranking your looking at. Also Duke is a global school. You can get a job easily in europe with a Duke degree. UVA is predominately only known in the US and mostly on the east coast. Duke is still the better choice. No question.
I would choose Duke because of better recognition (considering the fact that i'm not a US citizen). Plus I know more Fuqua MBAs than Darden and they seem to be doing well
From a recruiting standpoint, they are basically exact equals. Both send ~10% in any given year to IBD of small classes (25-35 total people). In both cases not everyone who wants IBD gets it, but roughly 75%-80% do and most are BB. EBs don't recruit much at either but Lazard middle market does have a decent presence at Darden. Most hires from both go to NYC. Duke as a school has a better rep then UVA but Darden is widely considered more prestigious than Fuqua on the street (though it's definitely splitting hairs and no one will really care). I know for a fact (I'm involved in recruiting) that my BB considers Darden a "Top Core" school and Fuqua a "low core" school. Which really doesn't mean much other then we put more resources into recruiting at Darden and we tend to "project" taking a couple more people from Darden. That said it doesn't always work out that way depending on who we like. As far as Finance curriculum, I can't speak to that but, quite frankly, it doesn't matter.
So, in all honesty, my suggestion is to pick which one you feel like you fit in at the most. Go to the admitted students days and then decide (assuming no scholarship).
At Fuqua, roughly ~45 actively recruit each year. Almost everyone gets an offer, and those who don't usually have an ESL issue. I'm not going to have a dick measuring contest, but it is laughable that "Darden is widely considered more prestigious on the street." Maybe I am missing the obvious trolling...? Serious question - are you at UBS?
Darden is a great school - sometimes people just get stuck on the fact that it is a state school. Either way, as long as you follow the prescribed path, you will likely end up with multiple offers from either school.
Thank you for the feedback everyone. I was almost hoping one would be stronger than the other for recruiting, because fit for me breaks even. I preferred the Darden students by a small amount but at the same time am turned off by the intense workload. At the same time, Darden seems to have a more tight-knit network, but Duke the better overall name (I went to a state school for undergrad so would like to rebrand). I'll likely attend both admit weekends and decide from there.
Thank you everyone, this was all extremely helpful. I'm going to focus on fit and take it from there
This should probably be a new thread, but since you seem to have both gone through the MBA recruiting process I figured I'd ask. Do you know if the Real Estate IBD groups recruit separately at these schools? It seems for RE-centric schools like Columbia or even UNC they might, but if I were at Darden or Fuqua and was interested in specifically RE IBD, would it be a separate recruiting effort?
MS RE is a separate process but most other RE groups are with the general process.
Not really. At least in my bank with a very strong Real Estate group, it's same like any other groups. We do spend a lot of time making sure our guys get enough exposure to the groups before getting interviews, so there is no surprises (e.g. guy wants to do real estate, never meets anyone there, gets an offer for summer, then can't find a spot in the group he wants during placement time).
Got it - makes sense. Thanks for the insight
I agree with Dukex. Is Darden a top Bschool? Yes. But not as great as Duke. There both upper tier but Duke is Duke. Duke is a top 10 school on any list. As I mentioned before Duke is also 13 mins away from UNC-CH, a phenomenal school with a top 15-20ish Bschool, so Duke gets 2x more the activity and 2x more the recruiters than a UVA would ever get because its in the research triangle. Not to mention Wake is over an 1 hr away another phenomenal top school. UVA is in the middle of no where, who wants to visit that. you want to be in an area people want to visit from all over the country. Also at Duke you have access to the Charelotte market which is growing big time. I am not saying go to Charlotte, but its nice to know your in a state that is growing financial hub which you can do interships, gain experience, etc at. UVA has none of that. I am sorry Duke is way better than UVA and personally I think its overrated. Nobody in there right mind thinks a UVA degree is more prestigious than a Duke degree. No way. Sorry.
Just to get it out of the way - I don't go to Fuqua or Darden. Nor do I have any sort of bias for/against either school.
But I think there's a little too much exaggeration going on here. Fuqua a top-10 school on any list? How about P&Q's 2015 MBA Ranking:
http://poetsandquants.com/2015/11/18/harvard-business-school-tops-new-2…. You
You may disagree with this ranking, and that's fine. You may point out that Fuqua is ranked higher than Darden in most rankings, also fine. If you look at different sources, you'll find different information. However, the claim that Fuqua is "way" better than UVA is nothing short of ridiculous. Fuqua and Darden are peer schools, both solid options in the 10-15 range. It's as simple as that.
HBS is a way better school than Darden. GSB is a way better school than Darden. But Fuqua? ... No, Fuqua is comparable to Darden.
"Duke is also 13 mins away from UNC-CH, a phenomenal school with a top 15-20ish Bschool,", lol, you forgot to mention that their grads are typically backwoods hicks that usually end up managing dollar general or shoe show. Crapolina does nothing but envy Duke, plain and simple. A Duke grad and a tarhole grad can't be compared, on any level. Don't buy that crap that they have a top anything, they have gamed and cheated the system for their rankings, like their athletics have done for over 20 years. Liars, cheats and losers....that's what their top 15 about.
I just want to point out that sillymonkey123 is a Duke student. (i.e. extremely biased)
Duke is not "way better" than Darden. Like many people have already stated, they are peer schools. I would give a slight advantage to Fuqua but not so much as I would say it is "way better".
There is no way that sillymonkey123 is a Duke student. If so, he does not represent the view point of the school or alumni. He is a troll who has been posting on various X vs. Y school posts.
No one at Duke thinks of Fuqua as a WAY better school that UVA. Agreed - they are peer schools.
Wow, 15 posts spent splitting hairs....
I am currently at Fuqua and just successfully navigated the recruiting process and got an internship offer, pm me and I'll be happy to answer any questions you have about the school and the IB recruiting process specifically.
Any further input? I was recently admitted into these two programs and was wondering how these schools have been doing in IB placement in NYC. I'm looking both short term (percentage of ib class placing directly into a top BB in NYC) and long term (greater number of alumni in the field/region and career advancement). If it ends up dwindling down to "fit" then I'm pretty sure I know what program I'm going to matriculate into this fall. I'm just wondering if I'm missing any glaring advantages of either program or recent wall street hiring trends that you guys may know of.
Virginia v Duke (Originally Posted: 03/23/2012)
I've been reading a lot of the old threads on Duke MMS and only found one post that really went in depth on comparing the two programs. Does anyone know of any other solid Masters in Management programs. I'm not really looking for masters in finance as I'm more hoping to get into consulting as opposed to finance.
I think most people would say it's a step below UVA and Duke, but Wake Forest has an MA in Management too.
I have a few friends who did the Wake MA after undergrad if anyone needs info.
Why is everyone talking about Duke all the sudden?
haha contagion :) i started it lol
Yeah, I'd appreciate the Wake info as well...
Both guys were completely unrelated majors undergrad (at Wake). Stayed at Wake the extra year because they didn't have jobs lined up. One of them ended up with a decent consulting gig at Deloitte, the other is headed to law school. The program wasn't difficult (academically) in comparison to the work they did at Wake undergrad. Recruiting was basically just a second chance at Wake undergrad recruiting, which regionally is pretty strong but outside of the Southeast isn't anything special.
One downside for people that didn't do Wake undergrad is that the masters programs are pretty small. Socially you will spend a ton of time with the people in your program, and there aren't a lot of them. Also, I get the impression that the MA is second tier to the masters in accounting, which is top notch at Wake. There is a ton of big 4 recruiting, not as much BB (some) or MBB (none). Charlotte, Atlanta, DC are probably the most common destinations (for all of Wake, not just the Masters programs)
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