Have you asked tuck for money? If you tell them that you're considering darden cause it gave you a full ride tuck might throw you some money...

Either way, both schools are great and fairly equal. You'll get a job from either for sure. End of the day, if tuck doesn't give you money, I'd probably go Darden. Not having 130k in loans is going to be huge upside.

 
mba2014:

Have you asked tuck for money? If you tell them that you're considering darden cause it gave you a full ride tuck might throw you some money...

Either way, both schools are great and fairly equal. You'll get a job from either for sure. End of the day, if tuck doesn't give you money, I'd probably go Darden. Not having 130k in loans is going to be huge upside.

Yea. No $ from Tuck.

 

If you are working in finance post-MBA... the 130k is going to be a rounding error 5/10 years out.

Go where you think where you'll have the best experience, and where will get you where you want to go career-wise

Reading what you write, sounds like that is Tuck.. you don't want to be thinking "what if".. but guarantee you'll have a great time wherever you go and in six months time, you'll be convinced you made the right decision regardless of what you picked...

 

I think you're over-complicating the situation given all your considerations. It's clear you are motivated etc. It's also clear that all else equal, you strongly prefer Tuck.

Assuming you're confident in your abilities to get the job you want out of Darden as well as Tuck (this is something only you can determine/decide), the question simply becomes is the benefit of Tuck worth $130,000 to you?

I think that answer won't be too difficult for you to come to, and (in my opinion at least) given the information you've provided, that's all you need to decide in order to choose between both schools.

 

As much as I like Tuck, $130k is an astronomical amount of money. Go to Darden. Like you said, you can get to MBB from both places. Given that you have a strong GMAT, and what appears to be a strong overall background given the Batten, you will get a chance to interview for MBB at both places. After that, it matters a whole lot less what school you go to, and a whole lot more how well your case/behavioral interviews go. To think that when you get in an interview and the recruiter sees Tuck vs. Darden and and instantly passes you on is incorrect. I think IB at both schools is fairly comparable, which when given 130k vs. 0 slides tilts the field to Darden.

And @harvard 2plus2 please do not comment on things which you are unfamiliar with. This board is filled with misinformation - lets not add to it. The lifetime earnings potential has much less correlation with school name than individual effort, and frankly, luck.

 

it's not misinformation, and i think he happens to be right- as indicated by the responses thus far, many others do to maybe you should be the one who shouldn't comment on things you're unfamiliar with

.
 
matayo:

it's not misinformation, and i think he happens to be right- as indicated by the responses thus far, many others do to
maybe you should be the one who shouldn't comment on things you're unfamiliar with

Do you mean the -2 he has received from that post?

It is misinformation. The long term earnings between peer schools has little to nothing to do with the individual school name. The short term pay for MBB or IB jobs is identical - a HBS grad is paid the same as a Tuck grad is paid the same as a Darden grad at GS or McK - the performance bonus is where the difference can occur... and it isn't because of school name.

 

I think there are two factors to consider. 1. Financial Situation 2. Heart/Passion

  1. Financially, what's your situation with savings / parents? If you have significant savings, you can still have a good time in b-school and not add to the 130k in student loans. If you have some sort of parental support or significant inheritance 10-15 years down the road, the 130k becomes less of a factor. Assuming you're successful in finance, even without the savings / parents factor, the 130k is a rounding error. The two factors above just add a layer of comfortability (a word i just made up).

  2. Heart/Passion - granted Darden is a GREAT MBA and only a spot or two out of the top 10, along with solid IB/MBB placements, but if you've been dreaming about attending an Ivy for the past couple of years, do it! No reason to sit in Charlottesville the next few years day dreaming about what could've been.

At the end of the day, if you can stomach factor #1, and #2 seems to be the case based on what you wrote above, the choice seems pretty obvious to go to Tuck. Congrats!

 

130K is a lot of money. If you want to do investment banking, Darden and Tuck are comparable. Darden does very well in investment banking and as long as you have a decent head on your shoulder you are going to get a job at a good bank from Darden. If you go to Tuck, you are going to have to make student loan payments on 130K (plus interest) that you could have avoided by going to Darden. You would likely have Darden co-workers and you would be mad that they got the same job that you got by going to Darden.

 

I think it's safe to say that you've got an IB job in the bag as you don't seem to have very high expectations. You're clearly a star as you've been admitted to some great programs, one of which is pulling out all the stops to get you there. The future value of 130K in savings is significantly more than 130K. Instead of trying to pay that off for the next 5-10 years and accruing interest, you won't think twice about debt and will be banking for your next life investment (rental real estate, starting a fund, buying up a company, etc.)

Using some pretty conservative assumptions, that 130K that you're saving can translate into big $$$ in the future.

Since we're talking long-term here, let's take a look at where your heart is. If passing on Tuck for Darden will make you feel less successful or confident amongst your IBD / MBB peers - then you should no doubt take Tuck. If you will feel equally proud and confident in yourself regardless (such that this won't affect your career choices and progression) then you should go Darden. I think some underestimate the power of confidence and self-worth.

 

Darden is the no-brainer choice here. You will have comparable opportunities coming out of both schools. $130K is nothing to sneeze at for someone in your shoes. Not to pull an @illiniprogrammer on you, but $130K compounded at 10% over 40 years is almost $6 million. It's over $2 million over 30 years. It's definitely not pocket change, especially considering you won't make more money if you were to graduate from Tuck. This is an absolutely easy decision. Do the right thing and take the money, you won't regret that.

 

Someone on the other thread made a suggestion about not being this annoying during recruiting. Now seems like a good time to reiterate that. I gave some advice via pm, but given this repeat post, think you should just go to Darden. Take the money and run. If you are this indecisive and lacking of self confidence, MBB/GS is gonna be a real stretch. And if you just want to do i banking anywhere, darden will do the trick for sure.

 

Well, now that you've been IlliniProgrammer'ed by a former BB CEO, may I suggest that you at least shop this with Tuck? (@DickFuld tends to forget about shopping offers for the best price. He hasn't done that since he was working as a trader back in the '80s.)

The only thing worse than Tuck not getting an admit to matriculate is having an admit matriculate to a "lesser" school. But be gentle. Say you really want to go to Tuck, but the tuition is making this tough when you have been offered a full ride at Darden. If they can match Darden's offer, you're signed up to attend today without any quibbling. If they can match it 50%, you'll probably take it, but you can commit to take it today.

I've actually changed a little bit over the past two years. Grad school has regrettably turned me into a borderline (not total) douchebag by the 2011 IP's perspective. Tuck is a truly amazing school for consulting. In that area, Tuck clearly qualifies as a stronger MBA business schools ">M7 in the same way that Kellogg is at the level of Harvard/Stanford for marketing. If MBBB/other elite firms is what you want to do, this is not an easy decision at all with the current offers on the table. This is why you want to shop this to Tuck. Assuming Consulting is what you want to do, if you can get half off on the tuition, I think Tuck is probably worth it.

Finally, did you apply for Financial Aid at Dartmouth? It's not like an Ivy League school is looking under couch cushions for financial aid money. If they aren't helping you, it's because you can afford to pay their tuition. The more money you have, the bigger of a deal two years is to you, and the more that would favor Tuck in this decision.

If you need a more detailed analysis, feel free to PM me your financial situation. But first, call Tuck tomorrow and ask if they can make this decision any easier for you. My suspicion is that they are willing to.

We can talk about what to do if you don't get any concessions from Tuck. Given that a house is still expensive even to an MBB consultant, and that Darden is saving you 2/3 the cost of a house, I would not feel bad taking a full ride to Darden.

Relax. This is a high quality problem. Let's try to make it higher quality by getting some money out of Tuck.

 

@"IlliniProgrammer" And what do you specifically mean by financial aid? If you mean loans then yes I do qualify for loans for the amount of the tuition. But I don't think Ivies cover your cost of attendance shortfall beyond offering you loans at b-school.

 
RustyR:

@IlliniProgrammer And what do you specifically mean by financial aid? If you mean loans then yes I do qualify for loans for the amount of the tuition. But I don't think Ivies cover your cost of attendance shortfall beyond offering you loans at b-school.

Think he is referring to need-based awards. To my knowledge, only HBS and Stanford do this at the MBA level in the top 25ish schools.

 
hamm0:
RustyR:

@IlliniProgrammer And what do you specifically mean by financial aid? If you mean loans then yes I do qualify for loans for the amount of the tuition. But I don't think Ivies cover your cost of attendance shortfall beyond offering you loans at b-school.

Think he is referring to need-based awards. To my knowledge, only HBS and Stanford do this at the MBA level in the top 25ish schools.

I thought need-based scholarships were pretty common among MBA programs? CBS offers them, for one.

 
Best Response

I have already commented on this a number of times, both publicly on the forum and by PM. The one thing that is most important for you to realize is that there is no wrong answer. Honestly, whichever really good school you choose, i think you're going to carry a bunch of regret, which sucks and is something to really try to avoid. If you go to Tuck, I think you'll hold a grudge every time your friends travel to Europe, or go to Steamboat for a ski trip, or whatever, because you have to pinch pennies due to paying full tuition. On the other hand, at Darden, I think you'll resent the fact that you're not at an Ivy, and that you turned down a better school than most of your classmates got into. If recruiting doesn't go well at Darden, that will make things even worse, even though it likely would not be Darden's fault (just reality).

What I would do if I were you is not important here. I don't have the same sentiments or feelings, nor do others on this board. However, I have seen you say on here multiple times that you think Tuck may be the best business school in the world. I'm going to Tuck and I don't agree with that, but again, what I think is not important. Basically, I would approach it this way: if you strike out during banking recruiting, which is honestly quite possible, what will you feel better about? Less debt, or better prestige (and likely better secondary options at F500/other)? AGain, I don't know the answer to this for you. Most would take the money in the bank knowing they might have a less lucrative job, but I'm not sure if that's you.

On that same note, have you thought about secondary options, generally? You won't be able to recruit for banking and consulting, so if you strike out at whichever you go for, what do you want to do? This is actually where I think Tuck has a nice lead, beyond just MBB placement. I know multiple people at Darden that totally struck out at Corporate Dev./Finance/Strategy roles, while I have talked to no one at Tuck that didn't land multiple offers if they recruited for that. This is anecdotal, of course, but definitely something to think about. Two of them went to PwC Consulting, which they were not very happy about, and one went to a Tier 3 boutique consulting firm.

You also mention the psychological effect of the scholarship. I would say that based on your posts here, you will have a greater "mental boost" from going to an Ivy than you will from going to Darden. It seems like you'll constantly be trying to prove to people that you're there because of a scholarship and that you're really better than them.

I dunno man. It's a tough call. I didn't apply to any safeties for this exact reason: I knew what I valued the most and didn't want to be tripped up by the offer of money from a school that didn't offer as much as my top choice programs (what schools offer obviously varies by applicant). Whatever you do, just do your best to embrace the decision and put the other place totally out of your mind. You'll be fine at either, and both are great.

 

This is a fun thread to read. I always learn something here. I do want to echo @"hamm0"'s comment that

The lifetime earnings potential has much less correlation with school name than individual effort, and frankly, luck.{/quote] Maybe it's because I have been reading Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahnemann, that I find that point worth reiterating.</p> <p>Re the Darden/Dartmouth decision: The other thing I learned from that book is the decision impact of regret, or, as buying emotional insurance you don't need. So what will you regret less? And how much will you pay for it? You wrote above [quote:
I was admitted to some of the best schools in the world for college but I didn't attend any of those.
, If you regret that, and want to make up for it, then that factors into your decision. Would you pay a PV of $130K not to have that regret?
Betsy Massar Come see me at my Q&A thread http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/b-school-qa-w-betsy-massar-of-master-admissions Ask away!
 

Not yet. Have a few more days. But leaning towards Darden. Seems like that's what most people here would do. (@"Betsy Massar", what would you do?)

I love Tuck and would still prefer to go there but not at the expense of significant detriment to my 2 year experience (pinching pennies) + potentially negatively impacting my performance in recruitment due to the added stress (biggest concern).

I'm pretty confident I will fare much better in recruitment at Darden, at least in consulting (top 10% of class + full-tuition named scholarship + super chilled out mentally) so the only reason to go to Tuck would be personal liking of the school and superior reputation/Ivy League status.

I will make peace with my decision no matter where I go but I will be happier in the long run choosing Tuck. The only thing I cannot accurately predict is how much that will be to the detriment of the short term (recruitment is especially important).

Appreciate everyone's advice.

 

Cool, keep us posted. Definitely reasons for and against both.

I'd personally pinch pennies for two years if it meant a better long-term investment, but it sounds like consensus here says it doesn't necessarily have to be. I think your point about being a top performer at Darden is a good one and there is no reason you couldn't do better coming out of Darden than you would out of Tuck. Sounds like the brand name etc is super important to you though, and you may not want to live your life knowing you got in to but chose not to attend top schools at both the UG and MBA levels - tough decision, but nice problem to have and no real bad outcome. Perhaps realising more explicitly that neither choice will be "wrong" or bad (if you haven't done so already) will make things more clearer.

If you don't mind posting it, I'd be curios to learn a little about your background (GMAT, work exp, UG school "level", GPA, ECs etc) - I will be applying to an MBA program in a couple of years and have been reading about different schools recently, so would be cool to see a successful applicant profile like yours vs. the medians etc colleges publish

 
RustyR:

Not yet. Have a few more days. But leaning towards Darden. Seems like that's what most people here would do. (@Betsy Massar, what would you do?)

I love Tuck and would still prefer to go there but not at the expense of significant detriment to my 2 year experience (pinching pennies) + potentially negatively impacting my performance in recruitment due to the added stress (biggest concern).

I'm pretty confident I will fare much better in recruitment at Darden, at least in consulting (top 10% of class + full-tuition named scholarship + super chilled out mentally) so the only reason to go to Tuck would be personal liking of the school and superior reputation/Ivy League status.

I will make peace with my decision no matter where I go but I will be happier in the long run choosing Tuck. The only thing I cannot accurately predict is how much that will be to the detriment of the short term (recruitment is especially important).

Appreciate everyone's advice.

Charlottesville is a ton of fun. The Fox Field Races are a must-go. Congrats!

 

Hi RustyR, Thank you so much for asking, but oh dear, I have to run away at the question, "what would I do?" My frame of reference is soooo different from yours.

This is not, and will never be a rational decision. It comes from your gut or your heart, or whatever makes you feel right. And all this ST vs LT discussion is theoretical. Especially in the long term, you may decide to specialize in an entirely different industry or region of the world. Long term, your world and your preferences may change big time, so all you want to do is set yourself up so you have lots of options and the freedom to exercise them.

I actually once had a partner from Goldman say to me, "go into a room, close the blinds, and meditate on it." I don't think he was being cheeky. I do think, at this stage, that you already know what's going to work best for you. That may sound mushy, but it's the best I've got.

You could have worse problems. :-)

Betsy Massar Come see me at my Q&A thread http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/b-school-qa-w-betsy-massar-of-master-admissions Ask away!
 

@RustyR I think Darden is a great choice, and you should definitely run with it. Echoing what CorpFinance said, Charlottesville is one of my favorite places on earth. Can't pick a better place to spend two years.

Just want to dispell one thing. You may do better in your interviews because you're "super chilled out mentally", but your scholarship will not do a single thing for you beyond possibly helping your resume stand out to get a first round interview. Even that will be much more dependent on the relationships you form during the fall semster. I think any boost you get from that will be mitigated (is that the right word?) by the fact that less people get first round interviews at Darden than at Tuck and by the Open Interview policy at Tuck.

Not saying it's the wrong choice in any way, but do not overestimate how much a named scholarship will do for you. Nor would I assume that you'll be in the top 10 percent of your class at Darden. This goes back to my earlier point - you will very possibly think you are above the most of your classmates before you even get there.

 

@RustyR so, the problem is, with my long life and my old-gal perspective, I never applied to Tuck -- I didn't want to go to school in the woods and I'm not a big winter sports person. I look at the student videos of hockey and winter carnival and it isn't me. But if you had applied to Tuck in the first place, then indeed, that has to appeal. I did apply to Darden in part because I was a resident of Virginia, and because I liked the case method, and because through my work, I had met a professor, Alan Beckenstein, who impressed me. I also liked the fact that Darden was all case method. So yes, I actually did choose Darden, at least to apply to. BUT this is an unfair comparison. And in the end, I didn't go to Darden, even though I would have paid in-state fees, which were less than that other case-method school I chose. I keep going back to that tired old expression "listen to your heart." Your heart's gotta know a whole lot more than a bunch of anonymous geeks like us on an online forum.

Betsy Massar Come see me at my Q&A thread http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/b-school-qa-w-betsy-massar-of-master-admissions Ask away!
 

@"Betsy Massar", in all your wisdom, you would consider it worth spending an extra $130,000 (which really is $250k with tax and time value of money) to follow your heart? As I've said, people such as yourself know life better than a 20 something kid like me.

 

So let me fill you in on my story.

I did my undergrad at a state school. I enjoyed it. I loved the people there. We were one of the best schools in the country at engineering. We outranked every ivy and outplaced most ivies too. We still do.

I went to Wall Street. It was like nobody had ever heard of us. (I would later discover that people were also unaware of the fact that there were these Great Lakes in the midwest.) And it was like I went to a no-name school. It was kind of annoying.

I worked there for five years. I learned to accept and work around the screwed up culture in the Northeast. In Illinois, some of the lower tier target private schools were where all of the mediocre rich kids went if they couldn't post the SAT scores to get into UIUC. In the Northeast, these schools were being treated as totally prestigious. This was all very confusing to me.

And then finally I got a call from the grad school of one of those universities I always complained about. I had a lot of money saved up (jersey city and rustbucket cars FTW), I wanted to spend a couple years away from Wall Street. I decided to go for it and spend $140K. Two years later I have a much more interesting job and I am working with a bunch of geeky quants rather than working for a bunch of traders.

If I had gone to Berkeley or UMich, I might have gotten the same job. Would I have regretted not spending time on the campus of an ivy league school? Maybe. Would I have gotten 2-3 times as annoyed as I get today when people say people who go to state schools are mediocre? Probably.

At the end of the day, you can't take your house with you, and to the best of my knowledge, having an elite MBA doesn't help you in the afterlife.

You have to figure out your identity as an individual.

You have to figure out whether you want a house or an ivy league school on your resume.

Either way, it's not a permanent decision. Everything in life is only temporary. So think hard about it, but don't stress.

 
IlliniProgrammer:

So let me fill you in on my story.

I did my undergrad at a state school. I enjoyed it. I loved the people there. We were one of the best schools in the country at engineering. We outranked every ivy and outplaced most ivies too. We still do.

I went to Wall Street. It was like nobody had ever heard of us. (I would later discover that people were also unaware of the fact that there were these Great Lakes in the midwest.) And it was like I went to a no-name school. It was kind of annoying.

I worked there for five years. I learned to accept and work around the screwed up culture in the Northeast. In Illinois, some of the lower tier target private schools were where all of the mediocre rich kids went if they couldn't post the SAT scores to get into UIUC. In the Northeast, these schools were being treated as totally prestigious. This was all very confusing to me.

And then finally I got a call from the grad school of one of those universities I always complained about. I had a lot of money saved up (jersey city and rustbucket cars FTW), I wanted to spend a couple years away from Wall Street. I decided to go for it and spend $140K. Two years later I have a much more interesting job and I am working with a bunch of geeky quants rather than working for a bunch of traders.

If I had gone to Berkeley or UMich, I might have gotten the same job. Would I have regretted not spending time on the campus of an ivy league school? Maybe. Would I have gotten 2-3 times as annoyed as I get today when people say people who go to state schools are mediocre? Probably.

At the end of the day, you can't take your house with you, and to the best of my knowledge, having an elite MBA doesn't help you in the afterlife.

You have to figure out your identity as an individual.

You have to figure out whether you want a house or an ivy league school on your resume.

Either way, it's not a permanent decision. Everything in life is only temporary. So think hard about it, but don't stress.

Please please do a blog post on your before and after personalities.

 

@RustyR, if I may say so: pick Tuck.

Quoting your original post, this is what you said re: financials.

But this is not that important AS LONG AS the psychological effect of giving up $$$$$ does not negatively impact my recruitment efforts

I may be wrong, but it sounds to me like you were/are heavily, heavily leaning towards Tuck (knowing full-well the cost differences between the two schools). Again, I may be wrong, but it sounds like a bunch of people on WSO (rightfully/beneficially or not) swayed you and shook your confidence. At the end of the day, you need to do what's best/right for you - not what a bunch of people online think they'd do in the same situation. Assuming you may put more pressure on yourself to land a job out of Tuck than Darden given the difference in cost, as long as you are confident you can handle the additional pressure I'd personally take Tuck in your situation.

You listed Intangibles as #4 on your list of concerns (and I'm not saying you listed them in order) but intangibles are usually the most important things to consider. Sounds cheesy, but I just saw an Einstein quote that seems apt for your situation:

“The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.”

If you intuitively, strongly feel that Tuck is the better option, it is. You only live once, and at the end of the day life is about more than the PV of student loans etc. (especially when you're putting yourself in a situation where you'll almost certainly do just fine financially in spite of the loans).

Finally, keep in mind that there is no "wrong answer" that will hurt you, and you will be able to do well coming out of either school - so try to relax!

 

There is simply no answer to your question to @Betsy Masssar. I do think it's evident that you want to go to Tuck and can't justify to yourself that it's okay unless someone tells you that it's worth the money. Well, as many on here have said (including me the first time you asked me about this), it's okay to turn down the money.

Not because you should turn it down because Tuck is ranked higher, or because of some other stupid reason, but only because it's what you really wnat to do.

I always say this to people, but sometimes it's worth remembering. When you applied to b-school, did you anticipate paying full price? Did you do the cost-benefit analysis based on full tuition when deciding to apply? If you were okay with it then, you're probably okay with it now, despite looking at another more enticing financial offer. That's not to say you should turn down the money instantly, and say who cares about $130k, but just that you should remember why you applied to b-school in the first place and what you want to get out of it.

I'm going to stop commenting on this decision at this point. You have all the information you need. Figure out what you want to do, man up and do it. No one here can provide the justification for either side of the decision but you. Just do it, run with it, and crush it at whatever school you go to.

 

Where do you want to live? Do you have a strong preference?

Both Darden and Tuck have strong regional pull for MBB recruiting, but less national pull (at least in my experience). That is to say, if you don't mind the Mid-Atlantic/Southeast, then Darden is better, but if you're dead-set on living in Boston, then consider Tuck, and do more due diligence on Darden's placement in Boston.

I think the long-term "rounding error" point about the scholarship isn't actually a good one, for a few reasons: 1) People often change their minds about what they want to do either in B-school, or after a couple years of grueling hours/travel in IB or consulting. Not having debt gives you more flexibility to opt out if the job isn't for you. 2) There's no guarantee that you'll stick in whatever high-paying field even if you want to, and saying that $130k is a rounding error in your career earnings doesn't apply an appropriate discount factor. 3) Psychological value of liquidity, in addition to whatever you could spend that $ on (or save for $$$)

These are, far and away, the two non-M7 schools I'd consider applying to. In your shoes, I'd 100% take Darden, even though like you, I didn't go to an Ivy League undergrad, and I could likely finance most of my MBA without debt.

Life, liberty and the pursuit of Starwood Points
 
When you applied to b-school, did you anticipate paying full price? Did you do the cost-benefit analysis based on full tuition when deciding to apply? If you were okay with it then, you're probably okay with it now, despite looking at another more enticing financial offer.

Silver B to @"BGP2587" for this insight

Betsy Massar Come see me at my Q&A thread http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/b-school-qa-w-betsy-massar-of-master-admissions Ask away!
 

I don't think I've changed that much.

I think there are things I used to be able to get away with saying that I can no longer say. If a UIUC student poked fun at all of the prestige obsessed people from Columbia, that was one thing. If someone from my grad school did it, that was douchey and mean.

I don't think my personality is worthy of a blog post. I know I can be a little narcissistic, but I don't think I'm bad enough to write an OP on my personality.

I do think the decision I had to make is similar to OP's and it's worth recounting in this thread. I didn't NEED to go to my current school, but I thought about what I was giving up if I didn't, and decided I WANTED to go to school here. In the end I'm happy with my decision.

 

As per my previous post, I really would like to hear people's perceptions of which is a "bigger achievement": Tuck MBA or named scholar at Darden? @"Betsy Massar" Don't want to go to Dartmouth only for a "lesser outcome". I think if it was a Jefferson fellowship, it would certainly be more impressive than being a "regular" Tuck student: Darden only has 2 Jefferson fellows every year and then it is named after the man himself, but they have 20 to 25 full-rides so I am not sure about this one. Statistically, odds of getting full-ride as an applicant are less than 1%.

 

I honestly cannot believe you are so insecure about yourself that you continue to feed off of other people's opinions. Frankly, I'm surprised that you were as successful as you were in your b-school applications.

Do you continue to ask until more people confirm your inner desire, thereby justifying your decision? Look, if you continue to go about life in this manner I strongly believe you (and anyone else for that matter) will be very disappointed in yourself. Why? Because you will never be acceptable to everyone.

It's time to take ownership of yourself and your future. Make a decision and live with it. Be a leader. If you can't lead your own life, how can you expect to lead a team of analysts, or a larger organization?

 
bmcrhino:

I honestly cannot believe you are so insecure about yourself that you continue to feed off of other people's opinions. Frankly, I'm surprised that you were as successful as you were in your b-school applications.

Do you continue to ask until more people confirm your inner desire, thereby justifying your decision? Look, if you continue to go about life in this manner I strongly believe you (and anyone else for that matter) will be very disappointed in yourself. Why? Because you will never be acceptable to everyone.

It's time to take ownership of yourself and your future. Make a decision and live with it. Be a leader. If you can't lead your own life, how can you expect to lead a team of analysts, or a larger organization?

This is a tough and important decision, chill out, and get your head out of your ass. I strongly believe people who act like self righteous jerks will also be very disappointed in themselves.

 

This thread makes me think of LBJ circa 2010 - subject should have been "The Decision". Your deadline on this must be coming up pretty soon here, but maybe still time for a tv special?

Your odds of a free ride at schools #11+ are much better than 1% as an applicant if you are capable of getting into a Tuck (or better) caliber school.

Love the "bigger achievement" comment. I can see you 10 years down the road now: "Hi, I'm RustyR. I'm a Darden grad, but I got a named scholarship, and less than 1% of applicants get one of those, so basically it's like I went to HBS."

Separately, does anyone think that adcoms read these forums? Would absolutely love to know what Tuck/Darden folks think about all this.

 
graham2829:

Separately, does anyone think that adcoms read these forums? Would absolutely love to know what Tuck/Darden folks think about all this.

I actually interviewed someone else who posted here asking for school picking advice. It's pretty funny to read all the 'negatives' people don't mention during interviewing and all that. Rusty can't be that hard to figure out if he shows up at Darden or Tuck.
 
RustyR:

As per my previous post, I really would like to hear people's perceptions of which is a "bigger achievement": Tuck MBA or named scholar at Darden? @Betsy Massar Don't want to go to Dartmouth only for a "lesser outcome". I think if it was a Jefferson fellowship, it would certainly be more impressive than being a "regular" Tuck student: Darden only has 2 Jefferson fellows every year and then it is named after the man himself, but they have 20 to 25 full-rides so I am not sure about this one. Statistically, odds of getting full-ride as an applicant are less than 1%.

So I was part of the Campus Honors Program at UIUC. Every flagship state school has a program like this that admits 1-2% of students in each class. It's still on my résumé, but I never mention it.

Your problem with some elite program at UVA is that you won't be able to talk about it in 2-3 years like you would Tuck.

If it were me and I had >$200k I'd go to Tuck.

If it were me and I had to go into debt, I'd go to Darden.

If I were somewhere in between, I'd ask Tuck for a deferral, move to Jersey City, drive a rustbucket, and save like crazy.

Worst case, you'll always know you got into Dartmouth.

 

So I said I was done commenting, but I lied.

@RustyR To be perfectly blunt, no one will give a shit. Sure, the Batten may help get you an interview, as you mentioned, but Tuck is a slightly better name. Both are impressive to everyone and will get you access to most any company on earth. It makes no difference to anyone else. Slight prestige differences resulting from a higher ranking or a named scholarship really don't mean much to anyone else but the person deciding.

Moreover, assuming a relatively efficient admissions market, they're probably equal. The fact that Tuck was not willing to offer you any money when UVa offered you a full ride shows your value to each school. While you said that very few people get Batten's, there are also probably plenty of people at Tuck that could have but didn't apply to Darden. I'm sure I wouldn't have gotten one, but I, like many admits to Tuck, didn't apply to Darden, so we don't know.

I will certainly not fault you for agonizing over this decision. It's important to you, and it should be. However, even though the two schools will obviously result in different paths for you, there is literally no way to predict the outcome from either, and no reason to assume that there will be any material and/or quantifiable difference caused by your choice. That really helped me make my decision. Realize that when it all comes down to it, you'll have a great experience for two years, get a great job, and then have 40 years of working life to control your own professional career, no matter what school you go to.

 

Am I missing something, but why does everyone believe Tuck is THAT much better than Darden? It's certainly slighly better, but it's not like he's choosing between Harvard and Darden. Tuck is consensus 8th or 9th program, and Darden is a consensus 10-13 program (This year was Dartmouth 9 and UVA 11 for USNEWS): http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools…

Is it just because Tuck is an Ivy? Unless he REALLY loves Tuck, I don't really see why he wouldn't take the money. Most layman don't even know Dartmouth is an Ivy, so I doubt it'll even help him at a cocktail in the way Yale would. Tuck has a great environment/culture and I can see why people would prefer it, but most of the discussions seem to be on "prestige" which I don't quite understand.

 

In finance, for an MBA, prestige matters. Even in Sales and Trading. The prestige obsession is even worse in IBD and probably consulting.

I would give a very different answer for STEM undergrad at UVA vs. STEM at Dartmouth. I would probably give a different answer if OP wanted to work for an F500 or go into trading or even certain groups in a bank's research department. But for grad school, for going into a field like consulting, prestige matters more. There's a good case for Tuck being worth an extra $100k, and there's a good case for it not being worth $100k. The point is that it's debatable.

I think it's ultimately because Tuck is a top ten MBA program and consulting is its forte. Kellogg does a better job getting people into marketing roles than HBS or Stanford, and in the same way, Tuck is an MBA business schools ">M7 if you want to do consulting. I'd be giving the same response for someone deciding between Darden and Berkeley who wanted to work on tech startups.

 
IlliniProgrammer:

In finance, for an MBA, prestige matters. Even in Sales and Trading. The prestige obsession is even worse in IBD and probably consulting.

I would give a very different answer for STEM undergrad at UVA vs. STEM at Dartmouth. I would probably give a different answer if OP wanted to work for an F500 or go into trading or even certain groups in a bank's research department. But for grad school, for going into a field like consulting, prestige matters more. There's a good case for Tuck being worth an extra $100k, and there's a good case for it not being worth $100k. The point is that it's debatable.

I think it's ultimately because Tuck is a top ten MBA program and consulting is its forte. Kellogg does a better job getting people into marketing roles than HBS or Stanford, and in the same way, Tuck is an MBA business schools ">M7 if you want to do consulting. I'd be giving the same response for someone deciding between Darden and Berkeley who wanted to work on tech startups.

Fair enough. I was deciding between Kellogg and Duke. In the end, Kellogg ended up giving me the same amount of money as Duke...but if Duke gave me a full named scholarship and Kellogg gave me nothing, Duke would've been the EASY choice for me (I'm doing consulting).

also the $130k figure is wrong...Dartmouth total cost will be $180k+, so you're giving up that, plus the interest on the debt, plus the fact you need to pay it back post-tax (so you're looking at $300k pre-tax salary to pay off the debt, or $30k per year). You need to compare the total costs for each to see how much OP is giving up if he chooses Tuck. The starting salaries are around the same for each program, (and he's certainly not a median student at Darden):

Starting Salary: $136k Darden, $139k Tuck http://poetsandquants.com/2014/03/13/what-mbas-are-making-at-the-top-50…

 
  1. Darden is the easy choice. These are comparable schools. You guys need to stop trying to dissect minute prestige differences that nobody gives a shit about. The same opportunities will be present at both schools. If you don't get your 'dream job', it will be because of you, not the school.

  2. What's it going to be OP?

 

I'm envisioning the first line of your resume now. "Tuck School of Business, graduated 2016 - but could have been a Batten Scholar at Darden". Come on man pick a school already, both are great options and will get you to where you need to go. One at a heavier price tag than the other.

 

I cannot believe this thread is still going. Seriously, Tuck is not THAT much more prestigious than Darden. I am very confident you will have fantastic opportunities coming out of both schools. I got multiple consulting offers and saw Tuckies and Dardenites at my sell weekends. I fundamentally disagree with IP's assertion that consulting firms are prestige-obsessed. Go to a core school, do well on the case interviews, and you'll have a great shot. I can't speak to BBs or IBD as I had no interest recruiting for finance.

Either way, make a decision and don't look back. You'll feel much better once you do.

 

Tis the season of great options. Going to neither school.

Got an offer for a PE job I was gunning for. 2 week vacation and then I start. B-school will have to wait.

 
RustyR:

Tis the season of great options. Going to neither school.

Got an offer for a PE job I was gunning for. 2 week vacation and then I start. B-school will have to wait.

Congrats! (Sorry about all the haters. Honestly I think the SB/MS reputation system should be reformed at some point to look more like QuantNet where votes are public and more detailed.)

If this is a relatively well known firm, try applying to an MBA business schools ">M7 in a year or two if B-school would still help. Who knows, you may be back with "Wharton vs. Tuck w/ $$$" next time, haha.

 

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