Dental School to Something Else
I am a second year dental student in the Northeast, who for a little bit now has been having second thoughts on dentistry and has been thinking about pursuing something else. I do have an interest in more business related roles in consulting or finance, preferably something in the life science as I am a Biology major, but not really sure where to start with my limited business background. I do have some consulting related experience from a summer internship. Ideally I would like to leverage my science/medical background, especially as I attend a dental school where the students take their science curriculum with the medical students the first two years. I am curious if anyone has made such a transition after about two years of medical or dental school?
My fiance is midway through her third year of dental school, and she attends a mid-usa school. This is my perspective from your original post. Keep in mind I graduated with an accounting and finance degree, and have now almost completed my Chartered Accounting designation, and have a very limited science background.
In my opinion, if you would like to consider pursuing a profession in a business or finance field, complete your remaining two-years of dental school and obtain your MBA in Finance. The benefits from this would be twofold. Firstly, you will have obtained your degree from dental school and will be a doctor of dental surgery. This, in itself is a very honorable and impressive accomplishment. Secondly, pursuing your MBA in Finance will give you some of the business and finance exposure that would make you more of an asset, as opposed to applying for a business or finance position with only two years completed from Dental school and I would presume a university degree in a science related field. In essence, you have no real training, exposure or education background in business or finance whatsoever. Unfortunately, in dental school, there are no courses or training in business (not even how to run a dental office), and those afternoon-lunches where they hire a CPA to come in an explain how an office should be run, really is a sad joke.
Me and my fiance, for example, are planning to open and build 4-5 dental practices over the next 10 years, and take a business approach to our offices. But again, I am extremely educated in business, and she will be graduating dental school in a little over a year so she will be able to determine what quality work the offices produce and what associates we hire and can oversee the overall quality of patient work at the offices. In general, us 'business' guys all know how poor doctors, dentists and surgeons are at managing money and business, and simply because everybody thinks they can run a business, when in actual fact, running a successful and profitable business takes time, patient and knowledge.
I have many friends who are dentists and doctors and let me tell you right off the bat, they are VERY smart individuals, but in a business settling, they are clueless. A lot of them love to talk about how much money they think they make, and how much money they think others make. At times, its frustrating to explain to them that gross profits and net profits are significantly different (keep in mind the average dental, orthodontic and surgeon's practice run at around 60-70% overhead, whereas normal operating expenses in most industries is around 30-40%). If you would like to talk more about the numbers behind running an office or office planning, shoot me a PM and we can talk about whatever you would like to know about. I also own a medical consolidation and construction company so I have first-hand knowledge of exactly how much it costs to build and set-up an office and would have no problem helping you out if you have some questions.
In closing, I would say finish your DDS degree, and then think about pursuing a career in business. Your will have an easier time leveraging yourself with your DDS, as opposed to applying now for a finance position with only a science background and an incomplete DDS degree. Second year of dental school is usually the toughest, with you having to study for the Part 1 Boards, but third and fourth year is more clinic oriented and generally a little easier then the first two years.
I disagree with shaginwagon. Unless you have rich parents, you're probably looking at >300K debt upon graduation, in addition to undergrad debt. Getting a DDS as a backup plan for business is a waste of time and risky as the dentistry market is pretty saturated everywhere that you'd want to live. DDS/MBA is a hard sell if you want to break into consulting or something similar. An MBA is certainly not required to hang your own shingle. You see a few MD/MBAs work out fine, but there is more precedent to that combo and those folks usually are in joint degree programs at top schools, which helps save a bit of money/time and provides access to solid recruiting.
If you aren't committed to the DDS, it isn't too late to leave. I personally know a few people that left PhD/4-yr professional programs and joined places like Big 4 advisory, making average dentist salary within 10 years. So yes, leaving dental school for a business career is possible.
Hello johnho771
It would really depend on how old you are and how much debt you will have if you finish dental school. If you are already in your later 20s and can graduate from dental school with less than ~$250K in debt I would think it is logical to just finish it and be a dentist. If you are still in your early 20s, and will graduate with more than $250K debt, you can cut your losses now and get into finance / another field you are interested in as soon as possible. Careers in healthcare versus finance each have their respective pluses and minuses, and they need to be thoroughly considered. The grass can always seem to be greener on the other side without careful analysis.
I am a practicing DDS with 7 years experience and also have a MBA from a top-50 program, along with an economics degree from undergraduate. In my view, the "golden age" of dentistry has come and went in the late 90s / early 2000s. The profession is becoming increasingly saturated and commoditized, and being a solo private practice owner will become increasingly more difficult. Nonetheless, dentistry is a big ship with a lot of reserve buoyancy left. You should expect at least $100-$160+K per year when you first graduate depending on location as an associate dentist, working very good hours by Wall Street standards. Location, social skills, and business skills will significantly impact your income and success as a dentist, even more so than clinical talent.
When I talk to friends in New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco, and Hong Kong doing Investment Management, Leveraged Finance, Business Consulting, etc, etc, everyone's job seems to have their ups and downs. Smart, motivated people in general can actually succeed in many different careers if it comes to it. It all depends on their preferences in terms of where to live, work hours, expected level of income, personal interests, etc.
Thanks everyone for their responses. I went to Dental School right after undergrad, so am still quite young. I also go to a fairly inexpensive dental school and will be in about 150k debt upon graduation, which while a lot money, is quite little in comparison to many other dental students. I think my interest in pursuing something else might partially be due to "the grass is greener on the other side." ShHKNewport mentioned his view that the "golden age" of dentistry has past and this is what generally concerns me. I have so far enjoyed the clinical aspects of dentistry, but I also really enjoy the business of dentistry and hope to have and grow my own office someday. Based on what I have been hearing, I am worried that opportunities of having the career in dentistry that I want are diminishing due to things like saturation, insurance companies, and commodization. I am fine with delayed gratification, but will have a problem if the possibilities of having that gratification are no longer. Hence, I have come here to at least try to get a sense of alternative opportunities for some in a situation like mine.
Hi johnho771!
I'm in a similar predicament to you. I'm also a 2nd year dental student and having second thoughts about the profession for the same reasons you mentioned, such as saturation. And after attending seminars, where I listened to successful management consultants share their experiences and talked to people working in industry, I realised it is something that I ultimately want to pursue. If you're fine with it, maybe we can have chat since we are in the same boat.
Just came across this site and am curious about this as well. I'm going to my fourth year of dental school, and was wondering if there were any other options besides clinical for someone with a dental degree, like something in finance, consulting, or another area of business?
Dentist to Consultant? (Originally Posted: 05/28/2014)
Hi everyone!
I'm a 2nd year dental student. After dental school, I hope to work for a few years to get some experience and apply to a MBA program with the hope of ultimately landing a job as a management consultant. I'm not sure what advantages, if any, there are with a DDS/MBA qualification or whether business school is even a good idea. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.
Dentistry is a great profession ... I don't mean to doubt you, but why do you want to get out so quickly to consulting? If you're interested in business in general as well as health professions, you might consider something along the lines of starting your own practice.
If it really is consultancy you're set on, that's a different story. I don't have any experience with regards to dentistry and b-school adcoms, but something worth noting is that what you actually do in a person's mouth won't have as many transferrable qualifications as having a very solid knowledge of the healthcare industry, the major players, the growth and value drivers, etc.
It might be easier to help you if you can add some specific questions. Good luck!
Hi MLE4444!
Ur right. Dentistry is a great profession. It wasn't my intention to give the impression that I wanted to leave it so quickly. I was just wondering what prospects in the financial and consulting industry there are for a dental graduate. As much as I want to consider owning a practice, it is heavily saturated pretty much everywhere, even in the outer suburbs. This along with other reasons, such as the significantly higher number of dental graduates, make me very worried and left me considering possible alternative options. I was just wondering if there is any DDS/MBA individuals in this forum who can possibly share their story. Also, say if I did choose to go down the MBA career path, how would I go about gaining experiences needed to get into business school, as the experiences gained in a dental practice are fairly limited.
Hm, interesting. I don't know of any DDS/MBAs here and it's not that common, but perhaps someone will chime in.
B-school applications are very holistic in nature, so coming from a health professions background won't hurt you in terms of work experience AS LONG AS you have a good answer as to why you want to do an MBA, and then later down the road in interviews, why you want to get into finance/consulting. The way it could hurt you (and this is a minor ish point) is that when looking at work experience, adcoms ARE looking for skills gained, career progression, and recommendations, so you should have that in mind when working in dentistry.
If you could be in a role where you have significant interaction with your patients or if you could be in a role where you feel comfortable so you can perform highly and move up the ranks, that will be to your benefit. I don't know jack about dentistry, so I can't tell you exactly what to do, but hopefully you can figure it out for yourself.
A good way of showing your intentions may be to make the intentions evident as opposed to just saying them... for example rather than work 3 yrs in dentistry and then apply to MBA, you could take financial modeling and valuation courses while networking your butt off in free time while working in dentistry, then working for a boutique investment bank in their Healthcare coverage group, or in the Hospitals (or similar group) of a public finance group at a bank for a bit before applying to MBA. Steps can be modified for consulting, VC, etc.
I hinted at in my first post, but on a completely personal level if I were in your position, I would be learning EVERYTHING I could about the Health Care Markets. Know all of the major M&A deals maybe from Pfizer/Wyeth going forward through failed Pfizer / Astra Zeneca and then just pay attention in the future, know who is involved in consumer health (JNJ), Pharma (Merck, Eli Lily, PFE, etc.), biotechnology if that interest you, and more. This whole part is maybe not something cookie cutter that you'll hear from a lot of people, but I think it's important for a lot of reasons, including that it will tell YOU if you really are interested in finance (a lot of people don't realize that they actually aren't), it will make it easier to leverage your background, it will help you speak more intelligently with professionals in the field, etc.
EDIT: In addition to health professions already being a great career, I think one other reason you don't see a ton of M.D./D.D.S./D.O. -> MBA is that you already shelled out in many cases >$100k on an undergrad + >$100k on med degree. Many people would be wary of another >$100k on an MBA especially because at that point you're probably already moving into your 30s. I don't know your financial situation, but bear that in mind. It makes me think that maybe a better path is to try to leverage your knowledge and network to get into finance/consulting and see how far you can go without MBA. If lack of MBA becomes a roadblock, THEN reconsider.
Why not go into a public health/policy sort of role rather than actual dentistry? That would probably be pretty transferrable to consulting and would also lend itself more than dentistry to getting an MBA (in my opinion).
Advice please: dentist to consultant? (Originally Posted: 06/03/2013)
Second year detntal student that wants to enter the business world. I found the challenges and problem solving of management consultants fascinating. I had a 3.96, 3.99, 4.0, 4.0 gpa in undergrad and my dental school marks are just average (didn't really give an f once I got it). My Dental Admissions Test was the 98th percentile (if that means anything). Is there any chance to break into consulting after I graduate? I know they often take medical doctors and PhDs, but what about dentists?? Canadian/ Canadian school.
I'm really motivated.
This is a total waste of time... Why would you do Dentist to end up in Consulting? I just don't get it Btw most of the time Doctors end up in PE
I realized I made a mistake. Dropping out halfway won't solve anything. I'm trying to ascertain my options. It's possible that I have none (ie. dentists aren;t given a chance in consulting), that's what I'm trying to figure out.
Why don't you just deal with it and become a dentist and make bank living an easy lifestyle..
I don't find it stimulating, there is no where to go (I'm a fan of meritocracy), the major cities are saturated (who wants to live in the middle of nowhere).
Look at medical devices research groups, you may be useful to them.
I'm with UFO. There's actually a reasonable amount of dentistry research out there involving stem cell work, among others. Perhaps you could get into a biotech. Then from there, establish industry expertise, then move to finance/consulting.
as if consulting is anymore stimulating
If I get an MBA after my dental degree, do well on program with high GPA, am I on level playing field with others that already worked in the industry? Two people post MBA, one has 2 years consulting experience, other one was a dentist? (I know that sounds stupid, but worth a clarification)
Many consulting firms hire PhDs, MDs, JDs, etc. at the equivalent level as MBAs (at least in the US). I believe you are in a similar position, with an advanced degree but no work experience. If your dental college is part of a school with a good MBA program, it shouldn't be that difficult to network your way in. There's no need to spend another 2 years and tons of debt on an MBA.
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Ironically, I have a friend who grew jaded w/ consulting and corporate politics... so is now pursuing dental school.
Anyway, your undergrad GPA seems excellent. I would recommend also taking some business courses while in dental school if possible. This way, you can better demonstrate/substantiate your shift in interest. You should be able to transition into consulting easily, though maybe at the pre-MBA level.
I really appreciate the encouraging words. For the 'haters' out there - there's a first for everything, including a dentist turned MC.
I'm learning valuation right now through Wall Street Training and trying to wet my ears in business by 'working' with a family friends small private equity group. Any other bits of advice on how a totally non-business guy can amp up his CV for applying?
Dental School to Finance (Originally Posted: 12/28/2013)
Hey, I'm new to this forum. I've searched and found a similar topic on here. I was at a top dental school, but recently left after 3 years (long story). I'm looking to break into finance and am currently studying for the Series 7 exam and working PT unpaid with a firm here in NYC. I was wondering if anyone had any pointers or ways I can break into finance as an analyst or something a little better than working as a stockbroker/financial advisor in the future.
I don't have any real finance courses from college I did take AP micro/macro economics in undergrad. Obviously I have lots of chemistry, bio, science, math/calculus and statistics courses which should translate relatively well but no real finance courses.
I was thinking about taking the CAIA exam in the future after I get my Series 7/66. I would hope to eventually break into investment banking. Although I lack real experience, I am very smart and have a drive to learn - I feel that I can do the job that others with finance degrees are doing - How can I break into - are there any unpaid internships in investment banking or hedge funds available??
Thanks, and I appreciate any input.
Interesting situation you're in. What type of work are you doing right now? Are they sponsoring you for the series 7? There is likely no question about your intelligence (most finance jobs don't require it anyways lol), but ideally most banks want someone with at least a basic understanding of finance. Usually an MBA would be the best move for you, yet I assume you may be fatigued from the classroom at this point. That being said I think your best bet would be to continue working you unpaid internship and network like a madman. You may possibly want to consider taking the CFA as it would show that you have a basic understanding of finance. I believe the consensus view would be to not take the CAIA exam as it is very narrow in scope and is still largely unknown because is it relatively knew. I would only do it once you landed a job and if your employer encouraged you to do it. It's really hard to say though without knowing more about your situation.
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bump. If i answer my own post do I earn more bananas?!
Dentist hoping to break into healthcare consulting (Originally Posted: 01/18/2012)
This is my first time posting on this site and forum. I was redirected here by a friend who said you guys might be able to give me some advice. Admittedly, I do not have many connections except a select few in consulting.
I am currently a practicing dentist. I graduated from Upenn with a degree in neuroscience (3.8) and received my dental and MPH degree from Harvard a few years back. The dental field is not looking particularly strong at the moment and what I thought I wanted in life at the age of 20 has changed now that I am bit older. I have always been very interested in consulting from talking to people at Booz Allen Hamilton and McKinsey and was wondering if any of these firms would take a relatively new dentist. I understand that MD's are much more coveted and apparently marketable, but is it possible as a dentist to break into consulting? The dental industry is growing and constantly changing due to improved technology and I did not know whether my credentials would be looked upon favorable by any firms. Thank you guys.
Medical consulting. Look into that then get back to us.
http://blogs.wsj.com/privateequity/2011/11/07/pe-continues-to-bite-at-d…
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/private_equity_firms_ink_teeth_in…
Maybe a bit of consulting then a shop like this?
http://www.harbert.net/private-equity/portfolio/
That sounds pretty nice. I'm just trying to find a way to break into consulting and I really hope to learn more about business and corporations. I took one economics and one finance class what seems like a lifetime ago. I will proceed to look into medical consulting opportunities and let you guys know. Thanks!
I went over the publicly traded dental companies and did a pretty comprehensive industry review last summer for the hedge fund I work for. It's definitely an interesting sector with some emerging tech themes (the accelerating shift to CAD / CAM) and in how fragmented it is. There are a ton of small suppliers that could be bought out with the right roll up platform and some capital, for example. If I were you, I would skip consulting and try to go right into PE if possible. You're not going to be able to offer as much on the business side, but you have hands on perspective and will be able to help evaluate possible targets from a practitioner's view point, which may be interesting to a PE firm.
I would start by Googling PE firms involved and trying to contact them directly -- your credentials are no joke, so I am sure you could get some traction with some effort and a good pitch. Also, I would contact the media or IR departments of the publicly traded dental companies and see if they can refer to any firms that might be a fit for your background -- that probably sounds like a crazy long shot, but I wouldn't be surprised if they could help (they probably compete against some such firms and would know the names of the major players). Dentsply (XRAY) is the biggest and an active acquirer in the market. I would also look at Young Innovations (YDNT) which is definitely a buyout target -- I am certain they have been approached, and the guys running the company are good people (CFO is a cool guy who might help). There might be a couple of others you can look up in the US.
To the extent that you might have more to learn about the industry, I would read the investor presentations from XRAY and Nobel Biocare and Straumann. All three companies are making moves in the industry and it may help you brush up (couldn't resist) on your expertise in the industry before potentially talking to PE or consulting firms (since your ability to understand industry trends is going to be a major selling point given your lack of business knowledge). The Bernstein analyst who follows the industry has the best coverage and you could help yourself out by tracking down any of her reports on the industry (I forgot her name but you can find it online). If you're entrepreneurial, you could lob a call into her and see if she can help connect you to anyone on the financial side of the industry -- it's worth a shot.
Also, on the off chance that you speak Japanese or Mandarin, there is some interesting stuff going on right now in the dental industries in both Japan and China and you might be able to leverage language skills if that is relevant to you.
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