Is it crazy to take an offer from Deutsche Bank
I just received an exploding offer from DB (SA). I do not have any other offers at the moment, but have several superdays with other BBs.
If I do not want to renegotiate, should I just take this offer? I am extremeley nervous I won't get another offer. I think I would take it any other Summer, but I am very worried by the state they're in. Comments?
definitely a risk. gotta do a cost benefit analysis on your odds at other banks.
always remember that you can try to lateral at the end of summer. you're engaged to the bank, not married.
Poor advice given the current hiring climate. There's a reason people are saying to pick banks which offer the highest probability of a FT offer.
I don't have good advice to give since I don't know many people privy to Deutsche's real situation, but don't offer fucked up career advice
When was your superday?
Take it. Do the other superdays, if you get something better dump them. There are other places having a hiring freezes but they still have SA and Analyst classes.
DB, like UBS, is still a BB and will still offer better exit ops than most banks. If you have offers from banks whose outlooks look more secure, take one of those offers, but it doesn't seem like that's the case here.
To follow up on this - Is it crazy to take a FT offer at DB?
No. It's crazy not to take it if you don't have anything "better".
As Sil said, if you have something else take that something else. If not take the offer from DB. In my opinion it's much better to go with db and lateral if things go wrong than risking not having anything and be stuck with worse opps.
I mean DB is still a strong establishment, well recognised by the market. Just dont expect big bonuses in the short run (though some friends told me they paid market last year for juniors, its the seniors who suffered from the cost cutting)
But...but.... according to the elite people here it's GS/MS or bust!
Well no, a lot of us like Laz / EVR / HL too... In fact as long as it's not risk management I'm sure a lot of us are just fine.
Edit Someone Got their feelings hurt.
Oh shit, another faggot keyboard warrior has surfaced.
if i were to guess, its cuz u linked in HL with LAZ and EVR
As a side advice to this thread (and many others for that matter): pay attention to the advice given by Certified Users. We're actually in the business, tends to say something.
Oh and "definitely a risk. gotta do a cost benefit analysis on your odds at other banks." is piss poor advice.
Just talked to about 10 people from DB last night and they insist they're going nowhere (obviously), but pointed to liquidity being higher than ever. Germany can't allow them to fail. Also, they're highest margins are in investment banking, so economically that would be the last thing they cut as compared to their commercial side in Europe.
Plus, you are cheap labor, they aren't worried about your cost. It's the MDs and the like that they are concerned about paying.
I say take the offer unless you think you can go elsewhere.
The only divisions at DB that currently make money are asset management, GTB and Postbank (Retail) check the annual or quarterly reports and dont believe what IB's are telling you. The turnover of juniors is very high. IB currently drops out of all league tables and the US Gov want to decrease DB's presence in the US. YTD DB is not even top 10 anymore http://fn.dealogic.com/fn/MARank.htm
and regrding liquidity, well there is some but german government made it very clear that there is no way in hell that they help DB. next year is a new election and merkel would definitely lose if she helps the hated bankers once again....
I would take the offer. At the very worst, you don't get a return offer and have a prestigious firm on your resume when you look for FT work. Obviously you can still interview at other places and take those jobs if you get them, but a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Unless your OCR process penalises you for rengegging, I suggest you accept the offer, continue interviewing with other banks, then reneg on DB if you get a better offer. DB would not think twice about renegging on you if things get worse for them.
It really makes zero sense not to take the offer.
You literally haven't arrived at a Decision Point where you have to consider reneging. Take the offer and cross that bridge when/if you get there. (Do attend the other interviews) Not rocket science.
a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush
How's the position? Is it in your desired area? How was the overall fit?
seriously? GRE monkey? are you still at the stage of preparing for your GRE? my girl friend is trying to study GRE too... any good materials to share with me? Would be appreciate it.
Close Mr. Robinson.... not GRE.... CRE
When a seat presents itself, and there are no other seats currently available. Take the seat.
Wouldn't be my first choice.
That said I'd still take an SA stint with them over any tiny bank. It's easier to go downstream than up.
At this moment, I saw the news about DB has frozon their hiring team. Did you really get the offer? If so, please take it. Because it would eventully go up!
Hiring freezes don't normally end SA / FT recruitment, it's for experienced hires.
ugh... Anyway, DB is a good time to invest, I guess. I would work for them if I got offer from them.
Obviously take it if you have nothing else, but be aware that there is a good chance you don't get an offer at the end. Hiring freezes etc.
I think it's a risk given the hiring freeze. On the other hand DB still has some strong groups. In my space (real estate) they are a still a major player on the cap markets and lending side, albeit somewhat more constrained than they used to be.
DB has a hiring freeze at the end of every year for acct reasons and then they relax it back in January/February. It's just making headlines now because of all the other shit recently. You're fine.
+1 to you, such is life at every public company, ever....all about the optics.
Yes, DB's in a bad situation and that is definitely something to be wary of, however be aware that the hiring freeze is affecting IB very minimally and especially at the analyst level. They're planning on cutting their Junior SA class by 25% from the previous SA Class and even with everything going on managed to have very solid and higher than expected return-offer rate for the '16 SA Class ('17 FT), respectively greater than many BB's had this past summer (in the 80%'s depending on group). Again, something to be definitely wary of and definitely keep your options open, but its not a bad option to take if other BB's don't come your way.
Could I ask where the 80% number is coming from? I have friends who were summer analysts that didn't get return offers, and they stated a much lower number across groups.
Deleted
Sorry to hear they didn't get offers. Can confirm 80%'s in NY. Obviously it varies group to group- a group like HC with virtually no deal flow/MD's had very low return % (which was the outlier) where other groups like NRG/LevFin/M&A/Ind which had 10+ interns per group had above the 80%'s. Not sure I know of a group aside from HC that got recked
I know some people who would kill for an offer from DB even in their worst state.
Wait until they recover/get bailed and you start crying for missing on such an opportunity.
updated thoughts on DB's situation?
bump
bump
Thoughts on DB? (Originally Posted: 10/28/2017)
Any thoughts on DB, given the recent issues?
Does anyone have any ideas on prestige, exit opps, rankings, bonuses etc?
The standard answer applies here- take it unless you have a better offer. They're going through a restructuring (that has been extended a few times) so there are a lot of unknowns going forward. I would be less concerned with pay (which will be at or near Street-level for analysts) and more with exits, which have taken a hit over the last 2 years.
I won't speculate on whether/how quickly DB will bounce back, but I think the most telling statistic is this: FT league tables for overall bonds (DB's core function, alongside loans) show a decrease of 5% in fees vs. a total increase in the bonds fee pool of 11% YTD 2017. They're still a bulge bracket bank with capital to lend out so they're going to continue getting business, but the highest performing groups in the bank are proving that they are not immune to the structural problems of the firm overall.
Offer from Deutsche Bank !!! (Originally Posted: 04/04/2007)
Hey, I'm very excited. I'm a sophomore, I will be working for Deutsche Bank S&T this summer. I don't read enough about this bank on this forum. I don't know what desk I'll be working in yet but I'll find out soon.
What do you have to say about this bank? is it considered BB? Good training? culture? Thanks!
congratulations
they are well regarded in credit derivatives
I don't believe they are regarded universally as BB but they are definitely close
can i ask what school (or type of school) you attend? i.e. ivy, target, non-target? how did you get your internship?
s/t at DB is very good, 2nd only to GS. culture is very aggressive.
I go to a non-target, yet top-50 school in undergrad business.
you say S&T only second to GS? wow, is it THAT good?
great going..DB is really growing its business in most emerging markets. Overall, as a bank i regard it quite highly.
isnt it a BB already though?
Hope you enjoy the experience. DB is a great bank--very competitive position for a rising junior. Very respected in London (hq).
Good for you.
Thanks guys, I'm very excited. I read it is growing a lot in terms of ibanking, but I haven't read anything about their S&T.
good for you. But i think its a very large stretch to say DB is second in terms of ST...thats a pretty bold claim. I would not agree. But again, ST is so broad that some banks kick ass in certain products/sectors, and suck in others. DB is def not 2nd across the board though. Im sure they have some incredibly strong desks. I believe that was a biased opinion you got.
ok, ill be more specific: its 2nd in terms of total trading volume and profits.
OP: big congrats, its difficult to make it in even from a target as a jr. what do you think did it for you? being aggressive/persistent, connections, or serendipity?
I believe he got it through SEO.
Anyway, congrats on S&T at DB!
DB is very strong in S&T, much more so than in IBD. Congrats, you're in a great spot.
Thanks all for your comments. Yeah I didn't think it was second in S&T overall. But it's definitely top 10, and that's good enough for me!
Yes, I got it through SEO. I got into the program in early January but they didn't assign us a firm until today. I know a lot of people here will discredit the achievement just because of SEO, but believe me, getting into SEO is no walk in the park.
The hard part for SEO kids is getting an offer to return from their firm (you shouldn't have a problem this summer though since you are a soph).
hey, how long did they give you to accept the SEO offer?
I don't get your question... I got my SEO offer in early january and accepted right away, why would I think about it? I'm sure they have a dateline for accepting but if you go through the whole process, I can't see anybody getting in and then having second thougths...
DB IS second or third in trading revenue globally (MS may have surpassed them recently, but it is close). I am not sure of a much more objective and publicly available measure of ranking a trading operation. Its not like anyone cares about trading floor prestige.
I need to check this SEO out...
DB S&T is awesome. What specifically are you doing?Their FICC is good I hear.
Their IBD is also good in a lot of places... maybe except the US. Are you doing S&T in US?
Yes, S&T in U.S.
Can you elaborate on why is it awesome? Thanks!
what are the best products/desks in DB? what they are best at?
uhh...go where you like the people?
obvious answer that I didn't even think about lol.
But I mean like performance based, which desks are the most well known. I head it was derivatives in general and exchange rates/ currencies?
dpiderit- congratulations!
Could you tell me what your GPA is? Are you a business major?
thanks.
Thanks! 3.9 Finance
How did you get the internship? Does DB offer a program for sophomores, did you have a connection, or did you just drop your resume with the rest of the juniors?
SEO. You have to be a minority to do the program. It'd be very difficult to get a trading job at an investment bank from UMiami otherwise (even with a 3.9 GPA, no offence). "Top 50 undergrad business school" is pretty bad - most banks only recruit at Top 10 OVERALL colleges.
I'm not trying to be a jerk here about SEO, but I just think dpiderit should definitely be very upfront here about how he got the internship (not that he hasn't so far), since I don't want everyone out there with a 3.9 from an okay school to start thinking they're going to get a trading job at an investment bank - because 99.9% of them will not even get interviewed.
hmm...sour grapes?
I have been upfront about how I got it, I just don't repeat myself, just scroll up a lil bit and you'll find out.
I think that you can get anything you want in life if you work hard enough and look for a way to get it done. Don't let your challenges limit you.
what if you're white? how would you not let your challenges limit you?
being white is limiting you in this country?
Deutsche Bank - Thoughts? (Originally Posted: 02/15/2009)
I've noticed that lately, DB has been out of the news (in a good way) through the crisis, and I was just wondering ya'lls thoughts on DB and its future. I read recently that their Midwest Group recently poached Randy Kurtz from CS, and they've been picking up talent from GS, MS, and the like like crazy. How do you see their future panning out in comparison to the rest of the Street and its peers? Also, how would you rate working there as a junior versus other firms? Seems to me like a stable, solid, and consistently prestigious firm.
It's a good firm and it has some pretty good leadership. DB also took some Merrill FIG guys recently. They seem to have a good future ahead of them. They also have better compensation potential than their fellow american banks particularly because they have no restrictions placed on them. That said, DB New York doesn't get its hands on as many deals as other banks do. The Asian and European offices are very good though.
well I can't really comment on IB side because i'm not that familiar with it. But heres what I understand about the S&T side.
In terms of S&T, I think DB's really extremely strong. They're top for FX trading/structuring(with 21+% mkt share) around the world, and before Boaz Weinstein left they were top notch for the credit sphere as well(even in NY). Its lower profile in NY than other firms(I realize a lot of undergrads dont really think much about them in US, but a lot of top MBA school people want to head for Deutsche London), but they're really considered one of the top houses in London and Asia. if it matters to you, I encountered quite few interviewers in other houses i.e JP, GS etc that all started/worked in Deutsche sometime in their career.
So bottomline, i think you should look out for which product the bank is strong in and try to aim for that. Even though places like GS and JP may seem very attractive for the firm name, sometimes it may pan out better if you work for the top area in a bank (i.e Deutsche for FX and credit, UBS for equities and FX, Barclays for commods etc)
Just my 2 cents worth, hope it didnt deviate too much from the OP's message
I'm interested about this as well.
I feel that in terms of IB, they are growing strong as well. What are your guys's thoughts?
Impact of DB's Recent Events on IBD Analysts? (Originally Posted: 12/01/2015)
With DB announcing large layoffs, cuts to bonuses, and large losses as a firm, I wanted to see if anyone in the industry could shed some light into how this would actually impact an IBD first-year analyst there.
Are the layoffs/bonus cuts only going to be felt in countries that they have explicitly stated will be cut back (Mexico, Norway, etc.)? Or would they also have a substantial impact on analysts working in typical areas like NYC?
No impact, junior bankers will get paid.
Most of the layoffs are in non-IBD areas so its mainly trimming down excess. should be beneficial to long run profitability. I wouldn't be surprised if bonuses are more conservative this year but should be back to normal thereafter.
Correct and Wrong.
Correct in that majority of the layoffs will be in the markets (S&T) side of the business, particularly in fixed income.
Wrong in the sense that IBD will all be unaffected - with the current losses that DB is facing (remember they had a 6.2 billion writedown in 3Q, not to mention all the pending lawsuits going on, particularly the one related to doing business in Russia, which will likely end up with a huge fine), all divisions will get affected, although IBD lesser so that S&T. Comp at DB is shrinking by 1/3 and unless you are firmwide-acknowledged as a rainmaker, your comp will be affected in one way or another. The only exception is at the analyst level just because comp at the analyst level is insignificant (relatively speaking) but expect comp start to decrease (relative to peer BBs) starting at the 2nd year associate level.
Deutsche Bank Downgrade and More Bad News (Originally Posted: 05/25/2016)
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-05-24/deutsche-bank-woes-in…
Looks like things have gotten pretty bad. I just wanted to open up a discussion and hear people's thoughts. Any ideas as to what might happen in terms of restructuring, which areas of the business are in danger, which ones are safe, etc. I know they're betting big on Asia. Thoughts?
Their only chance is to split business. Save the good divisions, scrap the rest. Otherwise it'll all go down in shambles. The stock isn't even interesting to short it.
Bump. Any other thoughts?
I don't understand their balance sheet, why is their such a large block of derivative assets and liabilities on there?
They tried to turn around the bank by taking a huge exposure in derivatives, because that's what the human mind tells you when things go bad: take more risk. The strategy kept the afloat for a while, but it failed to reshape the bank's future. Two CEOs already jumped the ship, that should tell you more than any financial statement.
It'll be interesting to see how Germans will react when they have to bail out that colossus of crap.
I am very soon going to have an offer from DB.. what would you suggest?? The profile is very good and it is in their Wealth management Research team ! !
DB has a bunch of problems. Specifically, they have all the issues their competitors have, but they also have a fundamental business model challenge.
Hard to see how it all evolves, since the institution will have to overcome a lot of challenges to make it.
Deutsche Bank Survey Finds Most Staff Aren't Proud to Work There (Originally Posted: 07/10/2016)
Over the last few months, Deutsche Bank hasn't had the best of times. The bank failed its stress test, CEO John Cryan began his memo regarding the Brexit with “I’m afraid,“ lots of layoffs, and more.
What a time to not be working at DB.
Source
Also, from today: "A Furious Italian Prime Minister Slams Deutsche Bank As Europe's Most Insolvent Bank"
Fuck, I wouldn't be embarrassed to put DB on my CV. I don't know much about DB, but my guess is that any given analyst or associate is not the reason the bank failed a stress test or that Britain exited the EU.
This is dumb. DB is still one of the most well-known banks on the planet. Most people would kill for the opportunity to work for a firm that is that well-known.
At no point did the article say that any Deutsche Bank employees are embarrassed to put the bank's name on their resume. That is a ridiculous Dealbreaker clickbait title and you should be embarrassed to further it.
The Bloomberg article's actual title is "Deutsche Bank Survey Finds Most Staff Aren’t Proud to Work There," and predictably, what the article does say is that over half of the employees "aren't proud" to work there. That's a bad figure, sure, but it doesn't mean what Dealbreaker and you say it does. Not being proud does not equal so embarrassed you can't put it on your resume.
fixed the title
I'm curious. What was the original title?
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