Deutsche Bank IBD SA Industry/Product Groups
Hey guys. I am getting ready to accept an offer for a Summer Analyst position from Deutsche Bank IBD in NYC. Does anybody know what industry/product groups they are particularly known for? Thanks!
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Consumer FIG Industrials Lev Fin Natural Resource Real Estate
Industrials is falling apart over there. Lev fin is historically their strongest group but they got rocked pretty hard when the crisis hit.
How is industrials falling apart (are the ML hires leaving)?
^^ No they're not ... macro where do you work
ML and Citi are where the sht is falling apart
/I don't work at DB so not biased
I heard a couple of the hitters left. They also cut down on the size of the Chi office, which is where a lot of their industrials is based. I haven't heard much about Citi industrials but I would imagine that it is a shitshow over there.
Agreed, DB brought in basically the whole industrial team from ML last year so I assume things should be going well (if not showing results now, then most likely down the road)
Is Citi's industrial team really falling apart though?
Macro: I knew an analyst in the Chicago office and it seems like their industrials group is nothing compared to NY and DB was planning on transferring everybody out of chicago and into ny when times were bad last year
Lev fin used to be their top group but like the above person said after the crisis, i'm not sure how they're doing. Their nat resource, industrials (contrary to what macro said), and fig groups are all strong and is where db is investing the most money (ie pulling in big hitters from other banks)
Is definitely impressive to see DB climb the ranks since they really didn't have much of an IB presence prior to 1999's acquisition of Bankers Trust. So they did accomplish a lot over a relatively short amount of time (however I would say Moelis is even more impressive) and positioned well for the future.
It seems like IB1789 works at DB so though there is the risk of self-promotion, I would assume his intel to be more accurate than people from peer banks.
haha, no i dont but I do have a lot of buddies there so I hear a lot info from them and I do want someone to correct me if I'm wrong so I can rub it in their faces.
M&A Industrials, still good though some people left Consumer Real Estate They have a Gaming group which is one of the best on the street. Called hospitality and leisure there I believe.
IB1789, mind explaining your fascination with Moelis and list a few M&A deals they did in 2009? Thanks.
Haha yeah I'm constantly talking trash about that bank to the guys who I know there. I think the area where DB is really impressive though is trading.
BTW does anyone here know which verticals under industrials they picked up from ML?
macro: I remember reading a shit ton of press covering it last spring when it happened (since they got sued by ML for taking everybody) so you can most likely google it).
Futurebanker123: BTW, I heard from some people that FT global training is 10 weeks in London, that should be a good time before they kill you, congrats on the offer!
what about financial sponsors?
Not to sure on sponsors but they do a good amount of work with BX and KKR so I assume it would be quite decent. Why, are you talking to people within that group?
cluelessbanking: I just personally respect what Moelis did in the past few years since Ken Moelis started the place.
So, bottom-line, if I was looking to go into PE later on, what order should I rank my preferences at DB? 1) M&A 2) Fin Sponsors 3) REGLL (real estate, gaming, lodging, leisure)
The consensus is that DB's Lev Fin group is relatively strong within the bank, but I'm not sure if I will like the type of work, as it seems to be much more capital markets based than M&A or an industry group. I imagine it to be much more focused on looking at high yield rates, bond market trends etc, rather than M&A modeling, company profiling etc. Because of that, I was thinking of just putting Fin Sponsors on my list instead of Lev Fin.
So: 1) Does this list sound good? 2) Is the difference between their Lev Fin and Sponsors groups so large that I should just definitely have Lev Fin instead of Sponsors on my list?
Thanks.
Best groups at Deutsche Bank (Originally Posted: 02/16/2013)
What are the best industry/product groups at DB? Most of the similar threads on WSO seem to be from a few years ago and I'm sure things have changed. Thinking in terms of exit opps, culture, how they're regarded on the street
Lev fin, TMT, M&A.
Would M&A have the best PE placement?
u make a wild, crazy guess...
thanks man, I really try .. any other thoughts about groups?
Are DCM groups in LevFin?
I don't think so, but I could be wrong, does anybody else know?
anyone?
last bump
DCM and Lev Fin are different groups. Lev Fin is much more intense given the client base/deals they see.
You won't ever be working on an LBO in DCM.
What about Sponsors?
Can anyone comment on the balance of model work and deal flow between LevFin and Sponsors?
Lev Fin and Sponsors will always be working together on an LBO. Deal flow is better at Lev Fin, because they work on non-sponsor deals as well.
Lev fin guys are running the model, credit memo, putting lender presentations/OM. Sponsors team may be running the model in certain cases (depends on deal/analyst), and also hold the relationship, so they are often coordinating things between the client and internal deal team.
How would Media & Telecom and Lev Fin compare in terms of exit opps?
For someone that is not interested in pursing VC but rather, is generally interested in the Media and Telecom industry and future exit opps to other shops on the street, I am curious to know if M&T is still a smart choice.
Given that DB splits Technology and Media & Telecom, this question also pertains to Technology.
What is the difference (if any) between Lev Fin and Leveraged DCM at DB?
DCM is supposed to be horrible..
Top Groups at DB? (Originally Posted: 03/14/2011)
Will be an SA at DB this summer. Which groups should be on my radar?
Have heard LevFin is pretty good. A search may also help - think this has been discussed here.
Yep, LevFin is the best in terms of exit opps
Financial Sponsors is pretty solid. People are great as well. Good luck
Bump.
How are RE, Nat Res, and M&A at DB?
I'd stay away from Nat Res. It's still a decent group, but they lost a significant chunk of their talent to Nomura and Morgan Stanley last year (i.e. the co-heads of Global Nat res and the head of energy M&A all jumped ship)
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/best-groups-at-db
[quote=stimps2801]http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/best-groups-at-db[/quote]
4 years old...
Check the League tables to see where they are strong -- LEAG if you know someone who has Bloomberg. You can browse across pretty much every offering (M&A, restruct) and product (IPO, debt, muni). You can't get any industry group info out of that information though.
Stay away from DB, Barcap, Nomura
.
REGLL (Real Estate) Lev Fin Fin Sponsors Industrials
Can't go wrong with any of those
but you can go wrong with DB.
LOLOLOL
OUTPLACEMENT
FARTMAN
Deutsche Bank Industry Groups (Originally Posted: 03/04/2010)
I'm specifically concerned with the consumer and industrials groups. I just have a few general questions.
1) What is the culture like? How are the hours? 2) What is the deal flow like? Will there be M&A experience? 3) How are the exit ops? PE/HF?
Thanks in advance for the help!
Any Input???
From what I understand the culture within the consumer group is relatively collegiate and cordial. As far as the other issues, I'm not quite sure.
Industrials - There were rumors that their Chicago office was about to blow up. I think they had some pretty deep cuts.
I'm curious to hear more
pm me
I am curious to hear more on this as well.
bump
wtf just saw the OP was from 2010.....
Top DB groups (Originally Posted: 02/09/2007)
Hey could somebody tell me something about Deutsche's groups? Which ones are the best right now and where would you have a better exit opportunity for PE.
lev fin.
as well.
financial sponsors group
Deutsche Bank Groups - Best groups for SA? (Originally Posted: 02/23/2012)
What are the best groups at DB for SA? What are they known for? Thanks.
Have heard that Sponsors, RE, and Lev Fin.
I had this same question actually. Wasn't sure if group notability has changed in the past 3 years.
Lev Fin Sponsors M&A, Industrials, RE, TMT
Deutsche Bank Groups - Sponsors, M&A, Lev Fin Industrials? (Originally Posted: 12/16/2013)
What are their top groups?
Sponsors, M&A, Lev Fin Industrials?
Did a search but wanted to see if anyone had more updated information
Thanks
I think its a toss up, but probably Fixed Income Trade Support or IT Group... depends on what HH's you ask and if you're trying to go PE or HF.
you are correct FSG, M&A, Lev Fin and Industrials are tops. I think Lev Fin and maybe M&A might be the top among those, but that's up for debate.
Welcome to the Douche Bank, home of the Douche Bank, can I take your order?
Lev Fin only.
DB = LBO House = Best Group = Sponsors
M & A, Lev Fin & FS are the top groups as per exits to PE.
how about ind?
DB Banking Group Selection (Originally Posted: 04/12/2009)
I have checked the previous threads and haven't found much about DB's banking groups that is still relevant today. There was a discussion about them a while bank which revolved around Lev Fin and their debt business, but I was wondering how things have changed since. I know they are not considered a powerhouse in the Americas, but which are some of the top groups there? They have done a fairly good job of cherry-picking some top bankers from failing banks eg Merrill. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance
I know differnt products having different nature. But could anyone shed some lights on group selection of Global Markets at DB? How about credit trading and distressed product?
would also like some info on GM if anyone could help
DB product/industry groups (Originally Posted: 06/22/2009)
Hey,
Is anybody familiar with how DB global banking is organized? I know about their industry groups, but do they have a separate m&a group?
thanks
DB is organized with both industry and product verticals. They have three products, ECM DCM (Lev Fin is basically dead) and M&A. Technically the groups are supposed to work together in an integrated fashion. In reality, each one does all its own work for the most part. Whoever starts the deal ends up doing most of the work, and its very hard to get support (actual support and not just someone making you their bitch) from either side.
The vanilla industry groups (consumers, some of industrials, some healthcare) work was classic industry groups where you pitch and the product group does most of the execution. The weirder the industry (and thus the harder for someone outside to model or understand) the more the industry group does.
To the original question of M&A, it exists, it has been a big push, but it is one of the works M&A shops on the street.
thanks a lot
DB London best groups (Originally Posted: 11/09/2015)
Hi guys,
I have been following the forum for quite some time but this is my first post!
I have been offered a summer internship in DB corporate finance in London and would like to have your opinion on the best groups there? I am interested in M&A and LevFin. I know the LevFin team is strong but have no idea about M&A teams.
Thanks
I only know that LevFin is really good. I'm sure there are lots of good M&A groups though.
Thanks for your answer! Any other insights on the M&A teams?
Which DB groups are good? (Originally Posted: 06/08/2010)
Is Tech any good? How about M&A or Lev. Fin?
If you can choose any group, which one would you choose?
Thanks!
bump anyone?
Don't know this for certain, but I've heard Lev. Fin is DB is one of their strongest groups (at least that's what they preach at campus presentations) and M&A is pretty decent too (I personally know someone who recently went to Carlyle from DB M&A), but that's not to say that's a guarantee...
DB tech's been having a good year - they advised on the SAP-Sybase deal, and are ranked in the top 3 for tech M&A so far. I've heard it's a total sweatshop, though. M&A is supposed to be pretty brutal too.
what good group is NOT going to be brutal? come on guys, this is banking.
Thanks guys for the great response. How about Media & Telecom at DB?
If I want to do PE ultimately, would doing Tech hurt me?
wasn't PE what you wanted to do? sponsors will help you get there.
anyhow, LevFin will do the same and also give you other opps as well
look into the Sponsor Group if you want to break into PE
Thanks guys.
if you are unsure PE is the right move for you then there is no point to do Sponsors/LevFin. Sponsors/LevFin mostly deals with LBOs/PE firms. If you want to do l/s equity HF --look into equity research.
European LevFin and High Yield are what these guys do best, at least from the perspective of the league tables, for what they're worth..
Bb.
Best Groups at DB (Originally Posted: 03/28/2007)
What are the best groups at DB? How does the reputation of LF compare to that of Sponsors,Real Estate or Energy, Utilities and Chemicals? Which group would represent the best opportunity for a 1st-yr. analyst?
The LevFin group is the most sought after and has great exit opps I believe.
I hear for DB LevFin and Real Estate are their best groups. Someone from their LevFin group told me the Sponsor guys "do nothing". I guess that meant that LevFin did all the modelling and Sponsors just held the hands of the sponsors. Anyone else with more knowledge please elaborate on my statement.
Is it true that most of the modeling is done by LevFin instead of Sponsors at DB? Does Sponsors have in-house M&A or any other function? VermontCheese- it sounds like Real Estate offers a much better experience for an analyst in terms of responsibility. Anyone have any thoughts on that? Thanks.
real estate is definitly the best industry group there.
how does DB real estate stack up vs. the street?
If you're looking into RE, you should realize there's a possibility you might be pigeonholed as a RE Banker and Exit opps might be limited to that area. So I'd advise you to consider that before you choose that group.
Have a look at this thread:
http://www.ibankingoasis.com/node/4579
Thanks seanc! Do you know anything about the exit ops from Sponsors at DB or how they match up with their competition across the street? Is it true that LevFin provides much better exit opportunities than Sponsors? I have heard that they really grind the LevFin guys into the ground while the Sponsors analysts overall seem pretty content. Anyone know if this is accurate?
I really couldn't tell you much about their Sponsors group so I'll leave it to someone else rather than speculate. But What I do know is that their LevFin group is very well regarded across the street and it's the most sought after by incoming analysts because of the Exit opportunities.
So basically, my advice is that if you're really interested in RE, definitely aim to be placed there. If not then go for LevFin because that provides the best exit opps. Overall, DB is a relatively good place to work at in terms of culture, very few anal people.
Both FSG and Lev Fin can have rough hours. I don't know the FSG guys very well but Lev Fin has, on average, the longer workweeks of the two. However, I happen to think the guys in DB Lev Fin are solid guys, and would definitely take it over FSG regardless of lifestyle.
The analysts place pretty well into the bigger funds right below top tier shops, with the occasional analyst going top tier.
Is M&A any good?
Not one of the most highly regarded on the street, but working on building a stronger franchise.
Best groups at Deutsche (Originally Posted: 03/11/2008)
Following in the steps of several recent threads on other banks, I was curious what everyone thought were the best Investment Banking groups at Deutsche Bank. Comments on prestige, exit opportunities and work/life balance are all appreciated.
Real Estate and Fin Lev. Their Telecom is rising. M&A is getting better. that's what i heard from others. I am kinda wondering, given the current condition(DB, GS are the only ones in good shape), would you do FT recruiting for any other bank if you have a DB offer? CS, UBS are on a similar level. UBS, ML, Citi are in trouble. LB probably won't recruit this fall. MS, JPM and GS are left. But JPM is pretty much only good at FIG, resources. GS's culture is kinda... Only MS is worth applying to over DB?! monkeymania, your DB offer seems to be a good one.
Honestly, I'm of the philosophy that this being a public forum that people can express their views however they see fit and a poster asking for advice should exhibit his own level of judgement on what the facts really are and who should or shouldn't be taken for face value. Unfortunately, I also have little tolerance for the misinformed who feel the need to spread misinformation.
I couldn't let the comment above go without pointing out some glaring flaws in that logic. First of all, it's clearly written by someone with no experience in banking. Let's be clear, write-downs due to subprime have very little effect on said bank's IBD. Sub-prime and the subsequent products of structured finance are a tiny subsegment of the real estate division of a bank that happened to lose the bank billions. The current condition of the credit markets, while directly affects groups like leveraged finance, only indirectly affects the advisory side. The magnitude of a bank's total write-downs have an overall macro effect on hiring, possibly in IBD, but have no effect on the historic quality, or ongoing quality of the banks advisory capabilities. To say that an offer from any of the banks mentioned above are worse than DB is just patently false.
JPM only good at FIG and resources? LB probably won't recruit this fall? And coming to the conclusion that ONLY MS is worth applying to over Deutsche Bank? This is just so, so wrong. Original poster, please disregard the post above on all counts.
i didn't say offers from other banks are worse than DB. For the original poster's sake, which banks do you think worth applying to, assuming he gets out of the summer with a DB offer then?
I would agree with Gametheory except I think that the magnitude of the write downs have a greater effect on advisory via the ability to providing financing. we know that some of the balance sheet plays have historically gotten M & A credits through financing, and given the scale of the write downs at some of these banks, they can't provide the financing any more. I am expecting their rankings to fall significantly these quarter and the next.
Make no mistake about it, staple financing is rare term these days. BofA, JPM and Citi were the only big banks able to leverage a large commercial balance sheet into advisory roles. JPM and Citi have highly respected investment banks that will continue to be competitive, despite their inability to finance transactions (it should be noted however, that all banks underwrote leveraged loans to a high degree, and all of them are suffering). BofA, who was a fringe player at best, is retreating on the banking side (they get my vote for biggest peak to valley on the IBD side). I'm not sure what you mean by "their rankings will fall significantly." Who's rankings? And relative to whom?
Citi will no longer be able to overtake Goldman for top advisory, that much is sure, but I have confidence they will remain in the top 5. Also, in regards to the subject matter at hand, Deutsche had one of the top leveraged finance practices on the street due to their large focus on financial sponsors, now that that market is dead and dried, their leveraged loan practice is collecting dust (alongside everyone else's).
GameTheory, thanks for the input always appreciated. I agree that the current market conditions have little impact on the IBD divisions. When you say disregard everything that VeniVidiVici posted, do you disagree with the group recommendations, Real Estate, Fin Lev, Telecom, M&A?
Other recommendations anyone?
I was just in Deutsche's offices the other day for a meeting. Their leveraged finance and sponsors group are completely dead. They are double staffing analysts on basically everything - not a situation you want to be in. M&A is a solid choice, Industrial isn't terrible either. The Tech group has a glimmer of something decent (although I've heard it's mostly their semiconductor team on the West Coast). Be careful with RE if you don't have a specific interest. My good friend works in the group and is having trouble getting out.
I am referring to those three "universal" banks. I think JPM and Citi's ranking last quarter dropped significantly (Dealogic) - as in outside top 5. However, we'll need to look beyond one quarter to assess the impact of an impaired balance sheet on advisory rankings. We'll just have to wait and see.
By "last quarter" do you mean Q4 2007 (presumably, since first quarter has not ended yet). I have a Bloomberg magazine here ranking Citi #1 in overall fees for the year. Thomson has them #3 in M&A worldwide and U.S. (announced and completed) for Q4.
It depends on how you cut and slice the data (global vs US, completed vs announced, deal value vs fees), and I don't wish to argue with you which ranking is more accurate. This is a pointless exercise, don't you think?
But if you insist, here's what the WSJ reports for YTD 2008 (not the full first quarter, but up to March 5 which is a substantial part of Q1): http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2008/03/05/the-crack-in-goldman-sachs-armor/
Based on deal value (global): JPM (8), Citi (9) Based on deal value (US): JPM (6), Citi (10)
When did we last see Citi at #10? A long long time ago. Again, we'll have to wait and see whether this continues into the year.
That's useful data, but you're right it's not a good indicator (at least, not yet) of where firms like Citi and JPM will fall in the long term (and I suspect they'll be just fine). Especially since you have two firms in particular (Blackstone and Moelis) who have captured co-advisory roles (and receive full credit) on a few giant deals each (and it's also debatable how sustainable that is). I don't think we really disagree here. My main point (for the benefit of the OP), is that all of the large banks continue to be great places to be for the next 2 or 3 years.
It may also be interesting to note that the head of DB's lev fin practice left last year to revamp HSBC's investment banking shop. I think DB's LevFin rankings will drop over the next couple years while HSBC's should rise drastically.
It's kind of like ranking Ivy League schools, only this time it's even more pointless because Ivy League schools were more different than bulge bracket banks (ok I know that's debatable, but hey at least different schools had different climates).
In general I would tend to agree with GameTheory. There is no "best" group contrary to what everyone (well, at least everyone who has never done banking before) thinks.
And it's a good idea to stay away from LevFin/Financial Sponsors in general... the dealflow lately is the slowest anyone has seen since 2001-2002 or so. Definitely not a good environment for you to work on.
League tables are a TERRIBLE way to rank banks in terms of which bank would be best for you to work at. Don't even get me started on that.
So how should you decide? Well, what are you interested in and where do you like the people the most? That's the group you should be in.
With the possible exception of LevFin/Financial Sponsors these days, any group should give you at least decent experience and it's really hard to predict which one will "be the best" over the next 2-3 years.
With regards to the work hours at DB... I have heard that Healthcare is pretty brutal... Regularly 90-100+
nystateofmind, don get personal. I'm just trying to help. I'm ok with people disagreeing with me. Everyone has got different experiences with those firms and has different standpoints. And I at least provided sth useful. I agree with dosk17 and some of GameThoery. If I had an offer from DB and another offer from any other major bank for SA or FT. Put culture aside, then I would take the other bank. But monkeymania may have to do FT recruiting this summer and this fall. It wouldn't be wise to waste time on trying to get an offer from some banks that are on a similar level of DB or some banks that may not recruit people this year. It just may not worth the time he spends, esp if he's from a nontarget. It'd be wonderful if he likes the work and the ppl at DB. Then he doesn't need to go FT recruiting at all. I agree the League table doesn't tell much. Besides others, DB has a smaller IB class (around 70-80), and same goes for Bear, Lazard (around 40), etc. They may not rank high, but your personal learning experience(deals you've done, esp, net of unsuccessful pitches) is more important for exit and future. RE, FIG are some of the more specialized groups. Lev Fin, Sponsors are not good right now. M&A at all banks are hot. So the choice，I think, is really about the culture and people.
I second that the hours at DB Healthcare are brutal. Solid group though.
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