Differences between MBA and Law students
I've recently had a lot of opportunity to spend time with the law students at my university, through meeting them randomly and grad mixers. The differences between the students at the two programs are unbelievably stark. The best way to describe it is the alpha-beta analogy where the MBA students display alpha qualities while the law students display beta qualities.
MBA students are socially confident
In social settings, the law students are awfully awkward and geeky and stick out like sore thumbs. Perhaps it's due to the fact that many of them are straight out of college and thus haven't refined their social savvy in the real world. They would make geeky law jokes, constantly talk about law and jobs, and try to overcompensate through false displays of intellectual "prowess." In contrast, the MBAs know how to have a good time and are totally comfortable letting go. At social events, they are not trying to "outdo" others but rather want to drink and bond. We are comfortable in our own skin because we are older, more mature, and have been there before.
Law students are very defensive and insecure around MBAs
This really took me by surprise. Back when I was in college, law was considered more prestigious than MBA. Everyone at school was studying for the LSAT like a maniac. Now the tables have turned, as finance, tech, consulting, have heated up, and law school application numbers are dropping rapidly. Every law student I've met has responded in one of two ways when they find out that me and my classmates are MBAs. The first type is defensive: they retort "oh do you guys like do any work?" or "yeah you guys are such slackers." The second type stems from insecurity and envy. For instance, one girl I met at a recent inter-grad mixer said, "If I were better at math and econ, I would've loved to have done an MBA!" Another guy who is heading to a top law firm after school said "I wish I could do finance, but I majored in a worthless subject in college and ended up in law school. Most of us here couldn't get finance." The pain of regret and longing was so evident in his voice and demeanor. In contrast, I have yet to meet a SINGLE classmate who wishes they could've gone to law school.
Dunno man. I met some law junior partners who are pulling at least half a mil if not a mil by early 30's. Most finance ppl I know hate their life, their salary and their job.
SB'ed
MBAs are typically older and have work (and life) experience under their belts so it would make sense that they'd be more socially adept and indifferent to the silly ego competitions you see at many of these functions. Law School is primarily an academic endeavor so the students there will derive more value from how "smart" everyone seems. Have you ever hung around Yale Law kids? One of my best friends graduated from there. They're practically aliens; they're only concerned with saving the world and crusading against injustice. People like that are not going to be a hit at parties.
Yeah I know Yale Law kids. They are super smart and cerebral, but they are like on a different planet in terms of their priorities and view of the world.
Perhaps the most annoying attribute of students at top law schools is the combination of delusions of grandeur with a sense of self-righteousness. They insist that they are in law school to bring about "transformational change" and that they are actually going to make a difference. Of course, they all end up doing mind numbingly boring and soul crushing corporate law work after school. At least us MBAs have no illusion about why we are in business school.
I agree 100% based on lots of personal experience.
So you're trying to say that they're social justice warriors?
The real difference lies here. If law school students were 27-32, they would be substantially more chilled out. And they would be less defensive if they weren't graduating at 25 into a cold hiring environment saddled with 150K+ in debt.
But to throw a little shade at T14 law students...I tend to find them more competitive (in a bad way) and elitist compared to mba students. I find most top MBAers to be pretty humble. It's a function of the admissions process. Law admission focuses primarily on academic achievements whereas MBA admissions seeks a more well-rounded applicant.
Yup; I agree with this. Also add the fact that grades matter a lot in terms of law recruiting.
This screams insecurity.
@mbavsmfin
What will you talk about when you don't talk about MBA programs? Or maybe you will continue to talk about them incessantly after you graduate? Personally, I would go work for one of the MBA ranking publications if I was you. At least you'd be working on something you're passionate about.
Seriously? mbavsmfin is enrolling in another MBA program as soon as he finishes his.
it's his only option. look out for this post sometime soon..
"Is having two MBA's considered more prestigious?"
p.s. based on title, i had thought this could have been an interesting discussion for the frontpage until i saw the author, and the amount of monkey ish it had already been the recipient of.
p.s. 2: i'm slowly finding ways to use stock images from http://www.buzzfeed.com/daves4/unexplainable-stock-photos#.gflO6JMr61 (NSFW, well kinda)
I visit WSO for my daily dose of good laugh. SB-ed.
And what's with that photo of twins intertwined in a sweater?
Who's more alpha, a CBS guy or a HLS guy?
Your entire identity of yourself will be lost after you graduate. @DickFuld is spot on.
The amount of alpha-beta talk on this site is truly hilarious. Not only is it awkward and creepy to talk about how alpha you and your cohort are, but I have a feeling the kids who talk about it the most here would probably get stomped out in 5 seconds.
There's a simple principle that applies to people like that.
"If you have to tell people you are, then you aren't."
That said I kind of suspect that a lot of people are getting from those stupid "redpill" and "manosphere" sites that have replaced PUA gurus as the go-to source for sexually frustrated young males looking for answers on the internet.
There's a simple principle that applies to people like that.
"If you have to tell people you are, then you aren't."
That said I kind of suspect that a lot of people are getting from those stupid "redpill" and "manosphere" sites that have replaced PUA gurus as the go-to source for sexually frustrated young males looking for answers on the internet.
Snatch, I'm usually a big fan of your posts, but you are way off the mark here.
I don't know where you went to b-school (i'm assuming you did), so I can't speak for every single b-school out there; just my own. But I have heard very few people openly brag about where they worked at, job offers, or where they went to college. You are correct that jobs definitely come up in conversations, but that's in the context of recruiting, which is naturally going to a conversation topic amongst MBA students. As for water bottles and company swag, not quite sure what the big deal is here. So you get a free water bottle and bring it to campus to drink water out of. OMG! That is a sign that the guy must be a douchebag! After all, snatch said so!
You are correct that MBA is not as rigorous academically as law, med, Phd, but it was never intended to be academically rigorous because that's not its primary function. Newsflash: if you want to spend grad school stressing over stochastic calculus or complex tort litigation, MBA is not right for you! The purpose of an MBA is to build a reasonably strong foundation in business, make a career transition, enhance your brand, expand your network, etc. You also underestimate how much work is involved in getting a top job. Yes, we party more than other grad schools, but many of us bust our ass off during recruiting (case interviews, stock pitches, etc.). You can't blame us for blowing off steam by having a good time.
I have my beef with MBA adcom; my complaints have been posted on WSO numerous times. However, I do think they do a good job of assembling a diverse interesting accomplished class. And believe it or not, tons of strong friendships are formed between people of disparate backgrounds. Although I empathize with some of your cynicism, it is ultimately not rooted in what really goes on in b-school.
I'm sure law students don't sit around talking about how envious they are of MBAs. However, I have talked to way too many law students who have bitched about how much work law is, how they wish they could party like MBAs, and how they wish they could have done finance or consulting. You may think they are saying this just to flatter us, but given law students' ego, I doubt that's the case. As I mentioned in the comment above, law school applications are at historic lows. Law is just not that popular anymore because people realize how shitty it is. The top talent from the elite colleges have been going into finance/tech/consulting in droves rather than law.
Law school and business school serve two very different purposes. Law is essentially a trade school where you learn the raw mechanics to practice law. Business school has many purposes - i.e. career change, building brand, expanding network, etc. This is why law school has more academic rigor but no one should match academic rigor to value-add. Business school is incredibly benefical for many and so is law school, in different ways.
However, if you think that your three months of wining and dining paid by companies and the one month of interview prep is anywhere equivalent to the work from 3 years spent at law school or 5-6 in a PhD or MD, your grasp of the world is more limp than the whiskey-dick you carry every Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday (and come on, probably Tuesday and Wednesday too) from your MBA section socials.
"How the fuck adcoms can usher an overworked GS alum, some guffawing idiot who worked in fashion, a Saudi Arabian princess, and some albino kid who doesn't speak English into the same cohort and expect them to treat each other as equals and become BFFs is beyond me."
I LOL'd
A lot of MBA programs don't even bother with grades anymore, whereas graduating from even a low ranking law school gives you instant respect and credibility in many situations.
Law school applications are at a 41-year low. Law is pretty pedigree driven; the vast majority of the top corporate law jobs are going to the students from the top programs. The notion that a low ranking law degree automatically confers respect is wrong.
I looked into that once upon a time.
Just as in finance there's a huge gap between how people in the industry view it vs main street. If you graduate from some regional(within the state, not regional within the US) law school and hang a shingle people in smalltown USA are probably going to think you've done pretty well. People in elite biglaw firms on the other hand are going to wonder why you even bothered to apply without a "prestigious" law degree and throw your resume in the trash as soon as they finish reading the education section.
Part of the difference isn't just the cultural difference between law students and MBA students, but the differences between each college's business school and the school as a whole. Just as in any school there can be stark contrasts. My undergrad institution had a pre-med program that was(in sharp contrast to the school as a whole) one of the best in the region. We didn't see those guys much around campus due to their workload but by the end of the program they generally had a very different attitude than the general student body. The same went for the guys who put most of their effort into the military program as opposed to the academics. Most of them were terrible students but developed amazing(for their age) management skills.
Another author that I've mentioned on here before (John Reed) talked about the difference between Harvard Business students and Harvard students in general.
Take it with a grain of salt but this is his opinion.
Of course your mileage may vary but that example is illustrative of how massive the gulf between the way people in different departments of the same institution think.
pew pew. shots fired.
lol'd at snatch's comment, spot on. That sounds like fun though.
Peaked in MBA Rob Lowe
In general they're also more generalist degrees than J.D./PHD degrees. As a manager it isn't your job to know exactly how a particular computer algorithm works or the minute details of intellectual property laws. Your job is to manage both of their efforts and make sure that both of them contribute effectively to your organization's goal.
That's why most MBA's are structured the way they are: in a majority of cases they serve as delayed finishing schools for people on a management track. Everyone has to take the core classes so that you at least know how each department functions and what they are going to be worried about. You need breadth and your subject matter experts(who in some organizations will get paid more than you) are the depth.
For most MBA's there would simply be no benefit to making it a 5-year program that goes in-depth to each functional area because you usually won't have the time or reason to go into that amount of depth as a manager. Being able to network effectively is key because it's not always easy to get engineer types, salesmen, and accountants to be on the same page.
I'm speaking from experience when I say that if you think that's bad, wait until you're dealing with stakeholders who come from different industries, different economic sectors(e.g. private contractors working a government project), or different continents. It gets exponentially more challenging and most in-depth, technical degrees do a poor job of preparing people for that. MBA programs attempt to with an emphasis on group work, diverse classes, and case studies.
You nailed it.
Law schools regularly take people with no work experience or career prospects and graduate them three years later into $150-200k / year jobs. Business schools do not do this.
As others have said, they appear similar, and are in some ways are, but really are quite different in who they target and what they are trying to accomplish. When the JD students say they are envious of you, it is not the school they are envious of. They are envious of the 5 years of work and life experience, the same way a 13 year old is envious of an 18 year old.
If they went to law school immediately from undergrad, they are in many ways ahead of the MBA students if you compare age to age.
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How is that an exaggeration? I know people with literally zero work experience , both at the top and bottom of the T14 or whatever that will go into biglaw upon graduation and make money in that range.
Clearly the answer is to get both. If you're a JD/MBA you're not even alpha enough to tie my fucking shoes.
Seriously, what is this shit.
Stanford GSB brutally PWNS law students. This video speaks the truth.
Damn you're right, that was a "brutal pwning" by some serious alphas
This thread is pretty much just a pissing contest.
Guys, don't feed the troll ...
Seriously a lot of man hours went into this pissing contest. But I approve, great train reading.
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These differences have nothing to do with MBA vs Law, it's 21 year olds vs 25 year olds...
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