Women vs. Men

why I think women will never be as successful as men in a leadership role.

1.) Women in a leadership role tend to use their status in a negative way. They feel that they can dominate the working enviornment by being a super-bitch and by treating their staff poorly. They do this in an effort to gain more obedience and respect from their staff, but usually it works the opposite way. Men tend to be more even-handed and don't really put as much effort into making your life miserable because they're more focussed on the shit your doing, rather than nit-picking the way you're doing it.

2.) Women are naturally more emotional then men, they will subconsciously take things personally, get slightly overwhelmed and a bit bitchy when things don't go their way. Where as men tend to be less emotional and therefore more productive and more likely to come up with a solution to a problem a lot faster than a woman might be able too.

3.) Men are good relationship builders because they understand that business relationships and the deals that take place within them are almost never meant to be personal so they are less likely to be offended by someones disappointment or anger than a woman. Women are naturally more passionate, which isn't necessarily a bad thing as it is this very passion that tends to take women to the top in the first place, but every bump along the way seems to affect the woman more than the same bump would affect a man.

Don't get me wrong, I am woman so obviously I feel that I am capable of just as much as a man, but I think half of that is because I realize these behaviors are a part of the female nature. Staying conscious of these issues makes it easier to avoid them and keep myself level headed. Thank God too.

 
Nouveau Richie:
When I clicked on this post, I thought it was just gonna be a bunch of sweeping generalizations that over-simplify both sexes. Phew, catastrophe averted!

I was thinking the same thing; was half expecting a misogynist post by reading the title.

Interesting write up coming from the other perspective.

In 1976, James Hunt broke the sound barrier through Eau Rouge only to retire before the event finished... following the race he had sex with three Belgian nurses at the clubhouse near La Source.
 
Nouveau Richie:
When I clicked on this post, I thought it was just gonna be a bunch of sweeping generalizations that over-simplify both sexes. Phew, catastrophe averted!

To be fair, the whole women vs. men debate is an over-simplified generalization anyways.

With that said, you had me at the first sentence, OP.

If your dreams don't scare you, then they are not big enough. "There are two types of people in this world: People who say they pee in the shower, and dirty fucking liars."-Louis C.K.
 
Nouveau Richie:
When I clicked on this post, I thought it was just gonna be a bunch of sweeping generalizations that over-simplify both sexes. Phew, catastrophe averted!

lol ^^^this.

1.) Women will never get ahead when they are busy trying to fit in to the boys club by stomping on their own. 2.) Estrogen IS a magical hormone in that it affects emotions and therefore behavior. Testosterone has no such magical quality. 3.) Men are definitely more competent at relationship building in business. Women only have relationship building skills when it comes to the private sphere due to their extraordinary nurturing capabilities that comes from all that passion.

 

I hope you're not implying that I am "stomping on my own" because by no means is that my intention. If it was I wouldn't be active in an organization based around supporting women in their growth in the work force. :) I'm stating observations and experience.

Also, as "magical" as estrogen is, it has it's negative side affects. You can't work as efficiently when you're in an emotional state.

 

Not implying you are stomping all over women with this drivel - you are indeed, stomping all over women. It scares me to think you would write this nonsense and state you are a part of a woman's organization.

Do you really think men aren't affected by their emotions? Have you ever dated one? You're observations are internalized projections and I'm sorry you feel that way about women. However, I'm really glad to hear that you have the highly desired skill all women dream of: rational thought. What I wouldn't give for just a little bit! How did you ever do it?

 

Hmm, seems I hit a nerve.

Clearly you're emotional about this (oh the irony),but I think you're taking it a bit far. I don't remember saying men weren't affected by emotions? That would mean I was implyng they weren't human. All I said was that they aren't as affected as women are and they are far less likely to show it at work. I think it's important that women act rationally and fairly as often as they can, without getting too emotional to the point of becoming irrational, and without becoming overly defensive whenever someone brings up a point they may not agree with. Maybe this is something you should consider at some point?

 

Lol yes it strikes a nerve when women start going on about why women suck in the workplace. Irrational is posting observations as fact without statistics from reputable studies. Half of what I wrote went completely over your head. PS I'm pretty sure there are lots of men in leadership positions that treat their employees like shit. But that's totally different than when a woman does it, right? Lol gmafb

 
VictoriaWoodhull:
Lol yes it strikes a nerve when women start going on about why women suck in the workplace. Irrational is posting observations as fact without statistics from reputable studies. Half of what I wrote went completely over your head. PS I'm pretty sure there are lots of men in leadership positions that treat their employees like shit. But that's totally different than when a woman does it, right? Lol gmafb

Bravo, Victoria! I agree with you.

Very disappointing to see posts like this. Whether you're a man or woman, whether you agree or disagree with OP, this sort of posting is just fostering hostility and not really phrased in a way to be meaningful or productive for any women that might actually fit the description.

 
go.with.the.flow:
Women are better workers, period. They are hard working, focused and motivated. In my organization, when we are goofing off, the women around are sitting slogging their ass off.

That's because men have multiples more testosterone than women. That same type of work environment at your company exists in schools the world over. The trick is, and this is essential, to create an environment that acknowledges that biological difference, so that boys can be as productive as girls. It's no accident that physical education was removed to the detriment of boys. Basically boys enjoy and respond well to learning situations that involve active involvement or physical activity.

 

Who really gives a sh*t. Tell your female friend to look at the stats of industries women do dominate (health care, teaching, psychology) and explain why they are such shit performers by all reasonable productivity measures. Matter of fact the failure rate in the schools pretty much offsets any supposed revenue premium that women ran companies have--that is unless the women owners are donating the excess cash to bona fide successful schools--doubt that.

 
RGE:
Who really gives a sh*t. Tell your female friend to look at the stats of industries women do dominate (health care, teaching, psychology) and explain why they are such shit performers by all reasonable productivity measures. Matter of fact the failure rate in the schools pretty much offsets any supposed revenue premium that women ran companies have--that is unless the women owners are donating the excess cash to bona fide successful schools--doubt that.

lol

Whats the matter? Scared of my little red fuzzy anus? Don't be shy,let me show you the way, give me your hand and I will take you to paradise
 

First off, the education system favors women so a lot of good male workers will not make it through college and therefore will more likely work for a crappy start-up companies or start their own company since they will have less options. 2nd, women MIGHT work harder but they also burn out faster http://www.forbes.com/sites/larissafaw/2011/11/11/why-millennial-women-… .

Also in rebuttal to op's data of productivity, this report shows that women in medical school are a net loss for society since they do not work as hard as men and in fact if more women go to med school the doctor shortage will get WORSE.

http://www.parapundit.com/archives/008599.html

So really the women who work break down into slackers or overachieving burn outs.

 

Interesting. I know a female entrepreneur (highschool friend) who did very well for herself but her success was attributable to her character (hard-working, resilient & outgoing).

I approach these discussions (race, gender, sexual orientation comparisons) with a dose of scepticism. In most cases, success is more a function of personal character than the inherent (stereotypical) traits of that group. i.e. perhaps the women in this study were simply luckier, smarter, more hardworking than their male counterparts.

edit: let me add that I'm in no way belittling the success of women in business. There is a gender gap and I hope women everywhere take strides to bridge it. Most of us men do not fear women with power, drive and ambition. To the contrary, we applaud it. That said, this is still WSO and this thread WILL attract a deluge of ignorant sexist comments.

__________
 

These parameters (male, female, taller than 6', below 120 pounds, etc.) are all beside the point. The entrepreneurial class is highly individualistic and idiosyncratic (by definition) to such an extent that using physical characteristics they share with other people that are largely irrelevant to their projects and pursuits render such analyses uninformative.

Bene qui latuit, bene vixit- Ovid
 

So?

A good worker/entrepreneur is a good worker/entrepreneur regardless of gender.

The way the ideas are explained it seems like adding women to a board is a panacea. It's not. Only smart, hardworking, slightly lucky individuals are.

- Bulls make money. Bears make money. Pigs get slaughtered. - The harder you work, the luckier you become. - I believe in the "Golden Rule": the man with the gold rules.
 
AndyLouis:
women-operated
Interesting. I'm curious what the details and parameters of this metric are. Also interesting to me is that the gender equalized companies produced 30% more revenue.

Women and men working together ----> 1+1=30

COOOL!

Get busy living
 

Oh now you've touched a sore point with me.

The difference between an being an entrepreneur and an employee is risk. Men are more natural risk takers, and the reason we see more successful male entrepreneurs is because more men take the leap than women, who are typically more risk averse. (I believe there is a link between testosterone and risk taking, hence successful female business people often coming across as very masculine - those that retain their femininity do so by being in female dominated industries, there are obviously exceptions to this trend). When you look at successful entrepreneurs you're looking at an extremely skewed sample population, it's the same as looking at winners in a casino.

A far more accurate (and undocumented figure) would be the total of the failed businesses + successful ones. This will represent a very similar gender ratio to the successful ones only, and the failed ones would be approximately the same too, with a higher tolerance given that the sample size would be significantly lower and thus regression to the mean doesn't work so good.

I am vehemently against any attempts to "get women to start their own business". Aside from being horribly discriminatory, the factors that prevent you from starting a business are:

Potential loss of capital Potential loss of career development/education time Loss of social life (not potential). Potential damage to pride (you'd be surprised how important this one is) Lack of creativity to come up with new commerically viable ideas - there is no shortage of female social entrepreneurs. Lack of confidence in thinking your ideas are viable.

To list the main ones that spring to mind.

There is NOTHING you can do to the vast majority of those factors that will diminish the consequences of them for women only. You can't remove the cost or the hours without granting them money, which just wouldnt work (on a large scale). You can't take the time commitment out, and you cant give people creativity, only nurture it.

Additionally, the lives of men from 21-35 are significantly different than the lives of women (on average). Within those years, given current social trends, by the age of 30, most women will be married and en route to having their first or second child.

The time commitment required to raising a family doesnt leave much space for starting a business. I would object on a moral level to any movement that encouraged women in this age of their life to take on that risk. If it all blows up in their face, the consequences to their lives at that stage are massively different to men.

Before people ask, I am an entrepreneur, I have sunk most of my free capital into monetising my ideas, to various degrees of success. I had one failure, and my current 2 projects are looking promising (1 app related and 1 B2B sales). It's taken a huge toll on my personal life, as I have a full time job and a side job to fund these (big 4) my free time is gone. I recently moved back in with my parents (with the B2B i need the car and 2 insurance claims that weren't my fault at all have pushed the premium beyond my price range).

Having not much time or free cash for social arrangements, and having that lingering feeling about not having bought a house yet is a price I'm willing to pay, despite my finance friends from school all paying off some hefty mortgages taken out a few years ago (lulz). I don't encourage anyone to set up their own business, male or female. I explain what I can from my own experiences, the consequences of doing so and let them make a clear and informed choice.

An interesting statistic which gets lost when feminists yap on about discrimination is 90% of prisoners are men. In case you were wondering what happens to the majority of risk takers whom it doesnt work out for.

Additional: How many girls do you know (this isn't a rhetorical question - its out of curiosity) who asked out their current boyfriend/husband?

 
trazer985:
Oh now you've touched a sore point with me...

Beautiful.

- Bulls make money. Bears make money. Pigs get slaughtered. - The harder you work, the luckier you become. - I believe in the "Golden Rule": the man with the gold rules.
 
trazer985:
Oh now you've touched a sore point with me.

Additional: How many girls do you know (this isn't a rhetorical question - its out of curiosity) who asked out their current boyfriend/husband?

Very nice write-up. Pretty much right on. To answer your last question the obvious answer has to be 0. But the reason being to a woman the most important thing is her "social worth". If she asks you out, she is sending the message to everyone that she is desperate and that destroys her social value. You would be surprised at the things girls have said to me when we're alone. But the moment you mention that in front of a 3rd person, say good-bye to the girl. The key is to isolate a girl and say whatever the fuck comes in your mind.

 

This isn't politically correct, but fuck it. I'd prefer a male-dominated environment at the junior level. I firmly believe that breadth of experience and perspective is key to the leadership of any successful organization, however, at the granular level, I've been frustrated numerous times by women in my group or on my teams.

Some overplay their femininity, using it as a way to avoid the hard lifting as an equal team member. Others overplay their sexuality, taking advantage of wandering eyes and minds to get what they want in a meeting, casual discussion, assignment of tasks, or anything else. Others will go so far as to strategically sleep their way to their goal, trading sexual favors for professional advancement.

Some take a goody-two-shoes approach and lay blame at the foot of anyone around them, claiming that others are sexualizing them or disrespecting them. I've also seen some girls try way too hard to be 'one of the guys,' acting way too eager to talk sports/hookups/bro talk just to fit in. You know it when you see it; they're out of place. There are also those that are complete gossips and two-faces, they act very nice to their friends and supervisors, yet are the picture of hatred and enmity to anyone that doesn't serve them a purpose.

Everyone absolutely loves it when a girl (or guy) is down to earth, confident in themselves and their interests, and displays an eager attitude and willingness to work. On the rare occasion you get a girl who is relaxed, laid-back, and wants to steer clear of all the politics, it's great. Unfortunately, so many of the girls who are driven and motivated enough to qualify for the job seem to have personality traits that are seriously disconcerting.

I am permanently behind on PMs, it's not personal.
 

Well summarized. If the women is a seasoned vet at her job and is pure pleasant and professional, employs none of the extra feminine BS in the workplace, then I will go with the women. Unfortunately, this is few and far between, so my final answer is men.

All the world's indeed a stage, And we are merely players, Performers and portrayers, Each another's audience, Outside the gilded cage - Limelight (1981)
 

Blame Hollywood culture that oversexualizes women and constantly portrays them as weak and dumb housewives, girlfriends, or single desperate girls looking to get hitched... Just my 2 cents..

And yes, I also prefer male-dominated work environment.

It ain't what you know, it's who you know
 

Male. There's no possibility of me getting attracted to them. Since I'm a man, I think like one, and I find it easier to understand what my boss would be thinking. You can take the piss out of males and if they get offended just tell them to stop being such a girl. If you take the same tack with females...you're gunna get fired soon.

"After you work on Wall Street it’s a choice, would you rather work at McDonalds or on the sell-side? I would choose McDonalds over the sell-side.” - David Tepper
 

These comments remind me of American Psycho:

"It's very easy to have too many goals and be overwhelmed by them... The trick is to find the one thing you can focus on that represents every other single thing you want in life." -- @"Edmundo Braverman"
 
Bateman Begins:

Female, because then there is less competition.

Conversely also means your current role is likely quite bad given that in desirable highly competitive roles there's close to zero girls
 

Disclosure - I'm female and I personally prefer male colleagues.

Both sexes have the capacity to be douches and bitches and also both sexes in turn have the capacity to be great co-workers, superiors, etc. Let's get that out of the way. But for myself personality-wise (being more easier-going, not interested in work politics and just want to get things done) and interests-wise (e.g., sports), I generally get along with male colleagues better. They tend to be easier to read, and more straight-forward - not as likely to be passive-aggressive. And when the time calls for it (where I need to be tough or stand my ground) I feel I can do it with male colleagues and no feelings are hurt, or at least, no one will think it's a personal attack or take it personally, other than things just simply being work-related.

Perhaps it's not fair given there are far fewer women in the field, so there's fewer data points, but the women (colleagues, seniors/bosses) I've worked with or met with, many fall into two very extreme categories. Either very cool (great-to-work with teammates/superiors, often superstars) or very bitchy and difficult to work with (though, they too could be superstars) or if they aren't the superstars, they have the capability to either avoid work without getting blamed, or be able to throw others under the bus.Though, thus far, the worst person I've ever met in a workplace is a guy.

A lot of respect to the senior women who have been able to climb their way up on their intelligence and ability and hard work, and without being jerks. Hopefully there will be more to be positive role models.

Edit: I feel like also the firm's (or group's) culture attracts certain female professionals. The more aggressive firms/groups I've been with tend to have more aggressive female leaders... So it could in some cases be the job warps the way people act.

 
Kanon:

But for myself personality-wise (being more easier-going, not interested in work politics and just want to get things done) and interests-wise (e.g., sports), I generally get along with male colleagues better. They tend to be easier to read, and more straight-forward - not as likely to be passive-aggressive. And when the time calls for it (where I need to be tough or stand my ground) I feel I can do it with male colleagues and no feelings are hurt, or at least, no one will think it's a personal attack or take it personally, other than things just simply being work-related.

It is definitely true that guys have a greater capacity to be emotionally detached in general, but guys also have a much greater capacity to be a$$holes (though more so towards other guys, ha).

Also, in any interaction between two people, there is some element of personal involved. It is impossible for anyone to be 100% logical and objective and work-oriented because no one is a machine (though sometimes I have my doubts).

 
Going Concern:

It is definitely true that guys have a greater capacity to be emotionally detached in general, but guys also have a much greater capacity to be a$$holes (though more so towards other guys, ha).

Also, in any interaction between two people, there is some element of personal involved. It is impossible for anyone to be 100% logical and objective and work-oriented because no one is a machine (though sometimes I have my doubts).

Yeah, agreed - there will always be a personal element involved. And there are positive aspects that come with it - like shared discussion to allow for mutual respect and understanding. But I guess my past frustrations would be for some women I've worked with where they are quick to take offense... particularly against other women, which I think is silly. Yes, I understand the whole competition thing (especially given there are fewer women, so it's easier to view each other as benchmarks for your performance), but guy or girl, they are still your teammates - it's already tough enough field without the drama.

Having said that, I also agree that some guys have a tremendous capacity to be assholes, and I also did say the worst person I have yet to meet was a guy. And you'd be surprised - assholes are assholes, they don't care whether you're a guy or girl.

At the end of the day... it really comes down to the individual, not gender.

 

Even though most of my friends know me as a right-wing racist, xenophobic, homophobic, misogynistic, jingoistic jackass (TIC--or is it?), I've been bailed out professionally twice by BLACK WOMEN, and in my mother's career a black woman was her "kingmaker" and made my mother relatively wealthy. So while my natural inclination is toward desiring a wonderful world of white males, frankly, women--minority women--have treated me well.

I think, overall, if you put your head down and work hard it really won't matter. I've had pretty much good experiences with all races, genders and religions at work. Work hard and don't be a dick = don't care either way about gender or race or any other ancillary characteristic.

 

I would prefer to be the only male in the entire company. This creates an environment where women become extremely insecure. Insecurity = shooting fish in a barrel.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne
 

I have zero interest in being friends with co-workers. I have plenty of friends as it is and I live in the town I grew up in. I don't need the forced friendships. I couldn't care less if my co-workers were into football or ballet.

 

Props to the people that took the time to give real, mature, well thought out answers, even if I happen to personally disagree. Specifically Kanon and Going Concern.

Other than that, this thread is a fucking embarrassment. "Oh, women have breasts, hehehe." I'm sure that gets plenty of laughs amongst your fucking retarded frat brothers, but guess what it gets you on Wall Street - fucking fired. And you would deserve it.

90% of this thread is idiots who have never in their life set foot onto a trading floor or into a building housing a bank that even begins to approach relevance, and never will. Lets see you actually try to make these not funny titty jokes about your coworkers in person on the floor- you'll get fucking slapped.

Guess what, it's 2013 - females work in finance. If you have a career in high finance, you will work for a woman at some point. You will definitely work WITH women at the junior level anyways. And these will be your analyst buddies, these are the people who are supposed to have each others' backs. These are the people you're gonna come up with. You're really going to disrespect them with this "hmharharhar, hot girl" bullshit?

We're all here to do two things - make money, and get paid. Talent is what matters. If you think female talent is something to laugh at, you're a fucking retard and your competitors will snap it up.

Idk, I'm ranting hard. Long story short - any lurking women on this thread, please understand that all these clowns saying bullshit are just a bunch of asshole college kids that don't know what they're talking about. To the asshole college kids - you should be ashamed of yourselves. We're in this together.

Question is fair but some of the responses... Wtf is wrong with you people?

 
NYCbandar:

Props to the people that took the time to give real, mature, well thought out answers, even if I happen to personally disagree. Specifically Kanon and Going Concern.

Other than that, this thread is a fucking embarrassment. "Oh, women have breasts, hehehe." I'm sure that gets plenty of laughs amongst your fucking retarded frat brothers, but guess what it gets you on Wall Street - fucking fired. And you would deserve it.

90% of this thread is idiots who have never in their life set foot onto a trading floor or into a building housing a bank that even begins to approach relevance, and never will. Lets see you actually try to make these not funny titty jokes about your coworkers in person on the floor- you'll get fucking slapped.

Guess what, it's 2013 - females work in finance. If you have a career in high finance, you will work for a woman at some point. You will definitely work WITH women at the junior level anyways. And these will be your analyst buddies, these are the people who are supposed to have each others' backs. These are the people you're gonna come up with. You're really going to disrespect them with this "hmharharhar, hot girl" bullshit?

We're all here to do two things - make money, and get paid. Talent is what matters. If you think female talent is something to laugh at, you're a fucking retard and your competitors will snap it up.

Idk, I'm ranting hard. Long story short - any lurking women on this thread, please understand that all these clowns saying bullshit are just a bunch of asshole college kids that don't know what they're talking about. To the asshole college kids - you should be ashamed of yourselves. We're in this together.

Question is fair but some of the responses... Wtf is wrong with you people?

Every time you post, I think it won't be as annoying as the last time--and then you out-do yourself...

My drinkin' problem left today, she packed up all her bags and walked away.
 
NYCbandar:

Props to the people that took the time to give real, mature, well thought out answers, even if I happen to personally disagree. Specifically Kanon and Going Concern.

Other than that, this thread is a fucking embarrassment. "Oh, women have breasts, hehehe." I'm sure that gets plenty of laughs amongst your fucking retarded frat brothers, but guess what it gets you on Wall Street - fucking fired. And you would deserve it.

90% of this thread is idiots who have never in their life set foot onto a trading floor or into a building housing a bank that even begins to approach relevance, and never will. Lets see you actually try to make these not funny titty jokes about your coworkers in person on the floor- you'll get fucking slapped.

Guess what, it's 2013 - females work in finance. If you have a career in high finance, you will work for a woman at some point. You will definitely work WITH women at the junior level anyways. And these will be your analyst buddies, these are the people who are supposed to have each others' backs. These are the people you're gonna come up with. You're really going to disrespect them with this "hmharharhar, hot girl" bullshit?

We're all here to do two things - make money, and get paid. Talent is what matters. If you think female talent is something to laugh at, you're a fucking retard and your competitors will snap it up.

Idk, I'm ranting hard. Long story short - any lurking women on this thread, please understand that all these clowns saying bullshit are just a bunch of asshole college kids that don't know what they're talking about. To the asshole college kids - you should be ashamed of yourselves. We're in this together.

Question is fair but some of the responses... Wtf is wrong with you people?

This reeks of desperation. In case you didn't pick up on it, but very few of the people responding to this post are even remotely serious.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne
 

Seeing as I have watched Boiler Room over 23 times (currently on 24th) I would have to go with an all male environment.

"It is better to have a friendship based on business, than a business based on friendship." - Rockefeller. "Live fast, die hard. Leave a good looking body." - Navy SEAL
 

Obviously as a student I can't speak for the culture in the finance world but when I was managing a warehouse for an appliance retailer I had two distinct groups under me, warehouse workers, and for some reason, store cashiers. The workers were all men and the cashiers with a male coming in every once in awhile. The men always for the most part got along fine, did the job quickly and efficiently. If one of them did something to piss one of the others off they would just not talk to each other for a day or two and eventually get over it and put it in the past. Not so with the women.

The cashiers would always argue over everything. One might not be doing her job fast enough, according to a girl who was literally ignoring a customer to check her text messages. Another wouldn't know how to do her job right at all, according to a girl who never actually accepted payment before processing a sale and giving someone his merchandise. They would argue and try to back stab each other all the time all while being wholly incompetent in just about every way.

Sure, there were a few exceptions over the years. One girl ended up doing so well she became the manager of another location within just a few months. Another ended up saving up money, while still paying rent and for her newborn, to start a side business. But these are few and far between.

I see these same issues with the endless amounts of groupwork in school. I have never, literally never, seen a girl contribute as much as any single guy in any group ever in any of my classes. Not once in all my years of education, all my classes, all my assigned groups, has a girl NOT been bottom in terms of work done.

For these reasons, I'll take 100% male co-workers any day of the week.

Hoping for hedge life.
 

All female, because then my cohorts would have the following complaint, as amended from APAE's above post:

Lizard Brain overplay[s his masculinity], using it as a way to avoid the hard lifting as an equal team member. he overplay[s his] sexuality, taking advantage of wandering eyes and minds to get what he wants in a meeting, casual discussion, assignment of tasks, or anything else. Lizard Brain will go so far as to strategically sleep his way to his goal, trading sexual favors for professional advancement.

 

I think we'd have a female president before we have wall street dominated by females. In fact, I really don't think wall street will ever be dominated by females. I could easily see a female president in 2016 or later, especially on the Republican side (Hillary's getting older and there are many, many more rising young stars in the Republican party that have recently been elected than the Democratic)

 

I have nothing against women. My own problem is that if women want to be CEO, Head of Banking or whatever leadership roles that men are in, "they must work the same hours and the same intensity" as men.

If women are getting equal pay, they must damn well work for equal hours. If my female co-worker is getting paid exactly the same as me, I am cranking 100 hours a week when she is on maternity leave (3 out 12 months) and we both get promoted and working in the same team, I expect "to get paid more for my hours". Good looking female bankers get preferred treatment at work by peers (mostly male), by clients and by MDs. That is a fact, not an opinion.

I absolute hate incompetent female co-workers pulling off maternity card/ PMS card/ gender discrimination card, when peer reviews come in and when discussion on why their performance is not on par. It is a simple as "if you want the job, do exactly what is on the job description". No BS. No excuses. And yes no time off for being a woman. If you want the job, don't get married and don't have kids.

"I am the hero of the story. I don't need to be saved."
 
Human:
I have nothing against women. My own problem is that if women want to be CEO, Head of Banking or whatever leadership roles that men are in, "they must work the same hours and the same intensity" as men.

If women are getting equal pay, they must damn well work for equal hours. If my female co-worker is getting paid exactly the same as me, I am cranking 100 hours a week when she is on maternity leave (3 out 12 months) and we both get promoted and working in the same team, I expect "to get paid more for my hours". Good looking female bankers get preferred treatment at work by peers (mostly male), by clients and by MDs. That is a fact, not an opinion.

I absolute hate incompetent female co-workers pulling off maternity card/ PMS card/ gender discrimination card, when peer reviews come in and when discussion on why their performance is not on par. It is a simple as "if you want the job, do exactly what is on the job description". No BS. No excuses. And yes no time off for being a woman. If you want the job, don't get married and don't have kids.

Gave you an SB to equal out whomever threw shit at you. Frankly, I couldn't give a shit about this subject but since it was brought up you pretty much stated my opinion. "When will women do X, Y, Z?" People are seriously beating a dead horse here. These discussions are just annoying. I'm all for women's rights, whatever that is, but you want equality? Stop fucking talking and bitching about it.

FinanceStudent28:
“When women are at the table, they problem-solve differently, they see risk differently, they see success differently,” Gillibrand said. “They define a different set of parameters, which when heard alongside male voices, result in a better outcome.”

Lol sounds like some more feminist BS - "Yup, women better be treated equally BECAUSE WE'RE EQUAL...except when we're better."

 
capexzel:
As a woman, I really don't give a monkey shit. Why is this a big deal? If the chick wants to be President or Wall street mogul, then do it. Why all this talk.
It matters because the feminists and manginas are "suggesting" men in men dominated industries that women need "preferred treatments and accommodations" to become a successful leader. That women leadership is not exactly the same as men leadership. And men CEO and women CEO should be judged and assessed differently.

It is not as same as here is what a CEO should be doing, now go both men and women, whoever does all the things on this list, get the job. No, it is increasingly becoming, for male CEO, here is the to-do-list, and for female CEO, (as suggested by the feminists and manginas), here is a different to-do-list; well because men and women are different and men need to accommodate women while men also need to advocate for equal pay at work.

"I am the hero of the story. I don't need to be saved."
 

This is the same backwards rhetoric that's behind affirmative action. At the end of the day, all people should be treated equally, judged on the merits of their work, their personality, and their output. Yes, historically a number of factors have colluded to put a number of demographics at a disadvantage. The best way to overcome those obstacles though, is to work harder. I've never looked for a handout in my life. Sweat, mental energy, even tears at times, but I can honestly and proudly look back and say I made it based on me capitalizing on my circumstances.

Women and black people are always the loudest to cry "Unfair!" at the slightest provocation. No! It is not unfair. Put your head down, do your work, stop looking for preferential treatment, and proceed with your life.

I am permanently behind on PMs, it's not personal.
 
APAE:
This is the same backwards rhetoric that's behind affirmative action. At the end of the day, all people should be treated equally, judged on the merits of their work, their personality, and their output. Yes, historically a number of factors have colluded to put a number of demographics at a disadvantage. The best way to overcome those obstacles though, is to work harder. I've never looked for a handout in my life. Sweat, mental energy, even tears at times, but I can honestly and proudly look back and say I made it based on me capitalizing on my circumstances.

Women and black people are always the loudest to cry "Unfair!" at the slightest provocation. No! It is not unfair. Put your head down, do your work, stop looking for preferential treatment, and proceed with your life.

I absolutely hate affirmative action. Agreed. Do you shit and do it right.

 

Depends what we mean by a "major" bank...I don't see a woman running a BB anytime soon. IBanking is still a very aggressive business. Unfortunately, women generally do not fit with this culture. The CEO is the public face of the firm, and should reflect that firm's own self-image.

I could see a firm on the lower end of the spectrum (Jefferies?) or a very young firm hiring a woman as a PR move. Again, for the competent female bankers out there, this is truly unfortunate.

Now I could easily see a woman running a HF (several do, with incredible success) or a PE firm. But the sellside is sales, and having a ton of testosterone helps.

As for the White House, I assume Obama will win this year, Ryan will go in 2016, maybe for 2 terms. So we are looking at 2020-2024 until a woman has a shot.

Honestly, its a tough call.

 

Oh yes the daily mail. Top notch source on experiments done in rats to ascertain possible hormonal differences in humans. PTSD and company is also related to amount of trauma, training for traumatic situations, and implemented coping mechanisms. Traumatic history and support systems are also major factors in anxiety related illnesses.
Fail

 

I guess science and reasoning won't convince you in the emotional state you're in. I really enjoy how you keep indirectly probing at my point.

Maybe when you've calmed down a bit you can google something more suitable for your standards? I recommend the variation in the amount of stress hormones in men vs women, a hormone called prolactin and how it affects women, oh and maybe the neural system of the rat while you're at it. You might just find something amazing!

You might also discover some of the other studies that have been conducted on rats that have lead to breakthroughs in medical research given that rats have an identical neural system to humans...but I'm assuming that won't be good enough for you either ...sigh...I guess you can't win them all :)

 

Wow... Rats. Really? You're going to compare Humans to our buddy Rizzo?

http://www.youtube.com/embed/enrMChZPOc8

Jeez... I don't even know where to go with that one... So I'll argue about the Prolactin. And all I can say again is really? You're going to tell me that the universe is controlled by one hormone that primarily controls lactation? That's brilliant. That's just absolutely brilliant. Here's the rub. You're telling me that this is all about sexual reproduction. Man... this dopamine releasing protein chain is clearly important... For a hormone that bases itself on a dual-modality of diurnal and ovulatory cycles and plays a large effect on pregnancy in women, you're not making any point as to why it's such a definitive discussion point to make. If Prolactin had no ovulatory basis, then I could try and resolve this point, but due to the biochemical nature and effects of Prolactin, Women will naturally have more of it then men. That's why the expected threshold for Prolactin Presence in the body ranges from 5ug/L - 20ug/L in men and 3ug/L - 25ug/L in women. So what am I missing here that makes this such a valid argument to consider?

 
Frieds:
... this dopamine releasing protein chain is clearly important... For a hormone that bases itself on a dual-modality of diurnal and ovulatory cycles and plays a large effect on pregnancy in women, you're not making any point as to why it's such a definitive discussion point to make. If Prolactin had no ovulatory basis, then I could try and resolve this point, but due to the biochemical nature and effects of Prolactin, Women will naturally have more of it then men. That's why the expected threshold for Prolactin Presence in the body ranges from 5ug/L - 20ug/L in men and 3ug/L - 25ug/L in women.

i understood exactly none of that.

can't we just agree that women make great bosses (but only if they have nice boobies)?

(.)(.)

Money Never Sleeps? More like Money Never SUCKS amirite?!?!?!?
 

Sayandarula, I tried to make a reasonable argument about why it's not understandable and clearly it is. However, to clarify:

Prolactin regulates itself on a time clock and around the woman's menstrual cycle. If there was no menstrual timing with respect to Prolactin, then we can talk fairly on the matter, however because of how it works, women will always have a higher amount present in their body and have a higher threshold range for which deficiency can be found.

Better? Women have more Prolactin than men.

 

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Money Never Sleeps? More like Money Never SUCKS amirite?!?!?!?
 

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