Difficult Associates

Sounds like the associate is a sadist, actually.

You will have to become the masochist.

I feel for you. I worked with an unreasonable emotionally unstable associate for a little while. Keep your head up, pay stronger attention to details, and be thorough (always have a logical answer for every number, assumption, etc.).

Oh and always keep things in perspective. If it makes you feel better; I have a strong feeling mine was a clinical sociopath.

I don't mind if an associate is overly thorough as long as he's good. The best associates can be the hardest to work for. What you don't want is an associate who doesn't do his job and doesn't check numbers - worst case, the blame falls on both of you, best case, the seniors start to skip the associate in the process and come straight to you for the numbers (which is great in terms of responsibility and ownership, but somewhat nerve racking to not have an extra layer of culpability there).

Do you see lot of "credit-snatching" between associates and analysts, as in, if there's a job well done, the associate (or analyst) wants all the credit to himself/herself

Let me edit the title. Thx for pointing that out.

I wouldn't call my associate thorough. Hardworking? Definitely. Unwarranted sense of urgency for all tasks all the time? That's not even skimming the top of it. I've worked with associates that are reasonable with deadlines and expectations, and turns out that I end up working way more hours under them than any other associate. The difference is the way they manage me. There's a sense of accomplishment tied to working with them. And honestly, I don't mind working 10-15 more hours a week for those associates.

Credit-snatching isn't a issue here. It's more of a "do this and this and this while I review all the material that the client has given us and expect you to have done the same while finishing what you need to do and btw before you leave my office why didn't you add this into the draft, didn't you read the materials??"
I find that very frustrating. Zero time to digest information before having to deliver.

which bank which team?

It's almost impossible to credit-snatch sometimes because the associate is the first line of fire when it comes to follow up questions from senior guys. If the associate hasn't done the work, it shows immediately. Senior guys are very astute to who's doing the work, usually, and if the associate turns up with too many "I don't know, let me check on that for you" or glances at the analyst too much to answer difficult questions, the senior guy will naturally just gravitate towards the analyst.

wow...i couldn't agree with you more. i'm glad i wasn't the only person that went through this type of experience, because i was worried i was taking crazy pills.

basically, when i was on the sell-side, i worked with one director that created an unwarranted and unecessary sense of urgency about tasks. basically, he either thought everything that was going on was consistently and critically important (which wasn't -- there's something called "prioritization"), or he'd harp on me presumably just to make sure i was on top of things. but the thing is, ambitious people don't need a "kick in the ass" to do a good job; in fact, micromanagement and creating a false sense of urgency just irritates us and makes us less interested in getting the job done, because it's patronizing and immature. plus, when my director turned virtually every task into a fire drill, it just wore people out and turned them off to doing anything. it's like the boy that cried wolf -- people will listen to you the first handful of times, but after a while it gets tiresome and people stop listening to you, even if what you have to say is truly important. anyone here have a similar experience with managers that constantly breathe down your neck?

i also think that attention to detail can sometimes be more of a vice than a virtue. i realize a lot of people say "attention to detail" is a silly weakness to mention in interviews, but i truly believe that it can be a weakness and a very huge one at that. for example, that same director that i worked with would want to look at everything in excruciating detail. whether it was a $6-8 billion merger or a product that could contribute at most $50 million to the top-line if approved by the FDA, he'd want to look at everything under a microscope. now, some of you might think that his diligence should be worthy of praise, but i truly believe that the reason he was so obsessive about details was because he had no sense of what was truly important to analyzing a company and what wasn't. his time management was truly abominable - his strategy appeared to be more like throwing darts blindly at the wall. i guess if you throw a million darts, eventually you'll probably hit the bull's eye, but that doesn't mean you have the slightest clue what you're doing. anyone else think that attention to detail can be seroiusly overrated (if in the wrong hands)?

The "attention to detail" aspect really just means that as an analyst or associate your work needs be error-free (even down to the smallest of details), or "zero-defect" - as it was labeled in consulting.

If a more senior person is diving too deeply or frequently into the smallest of details, this is simply poor time management on their part.

Ah, but you see, you've just hit on a fundamental drawback of our development system.

I've said before that the transition to vice president is the most difficult in investment banking, and that the landscape is littered with the corpses of those who have failed to make the leap.

It can be incredibly hard for a senior banker to learn to "take his hands off the wheel", and let someone else do the driving while he directs it. Why? Because that's how he got to where he is today. By being more detail-oriented, in-the-weeds, micromanaging and anal than anyone else in his class.

And now that he's more senior, you're asking him to forsake all of the things that have made him successful, and re-invent himself. It's hard. Not everyone can.

1) As we all know, no deals ever close when you expect them to. If you're counting on this deal for great experience or are going to be using it for the purposes of interviews, I wouldn't count on anything.

I had a friend who wanted to stay at his bank last year for a potential mega-deal (you know, back when $40-50B LBOs actually happened) and I talked him out of it by convincing him that a good % of deals fall apart. Strangely enough this deal fell apart in the very early stages and nothing much ever happened.

2) In terms of actual advice, assuming you have no other options but to stay in that group:

-Work with him until you have a very SPECIFIC set of things he did wrong and go to more senior people (e.g. whoever his boss is) and position it as a "You know, I enjoy working here, but I feel the current arrangement is detrimental to the FIRM/GROUP because of [xx]" (name your reasons).

Everyone is amazed when I tell them I've done this before, but you'd be surprised. Senior people want to get results, and if 2 people don't get along, they'd rather separate them and re-assign headcount rather than have a deal go off-track.

-If you're not comfortable doing the above, I would go up to him and speak with him directly about this issue. Again you'd be surprised but some people just don't realize how annoying they are.

Maybe I'm more direct than most, but I would not sit on the sidelines while someone is abusing me consistently. And since you're a 2nd year already, you should have some good karma built up which reduces risk here.

http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/
Mergers & Inquisitions

On the money dosk. I second this idea. If you're taking sh#t say something like:

"Associate, I'm really excited to be working on X and want to make this a win-win for everyone. I've noticed that you've been frustrated by some things within our team. Is there anything I can do?"

Once you get that out, he's going to look to you as a team player . . . THEN you can talk about the things you're frustrated about . . .

Dude, do this and you guys will be BFFs before the night is over.

How common is it for a MD/D to expect daily deliverables?

I worked on a live deal as a SA this past summer with a 3rd yr. Associate who had just come over from LB, and our director was literally breathing down our neck every few hours and we had to have daily deliverables and painful review sessions.

The associate was ready to lose it, and I can totally see why given that he had a billion things on his plate. I enjoyed it as a SA since it was great experience, but for FT I can see this being a problem when you have other MDs/Ds coming at you...