Do analysts ever get fired for poor performance?
I've been wondering about this for a while actually. This past summer during my banking internship, there was this one summer analyst in my group who was terrible. He always tried to leave early (he'd start getting antsy around 8pm), avoid being assigned hard work, and the work he did do was terrible. He just didn't seem smart enough to understand even the most basic work, and was too lazy to bother trying to learn it (incidently, he went to an ivy league school...go figure). He obviously did not get an offer from the bank we were at, but he was in SEO so he was able to interview with all of the other banks on the street at the end of the summer and secure several offers since he interviewed with the other banks before he even found out that he didn't get an offer from our summer bank. So now I'm wondering what it's going to be like for this guy at his new bank come July. Is it really worth it for a bank to shell out 90k+ (I'm assuming he'll get the lowest bonus) to have someone around who's essentially dead weight?
I'm also wondering what it's going to be like for his group, and if I (or any of you) will be forced to work with someone like this. This guy and I were put on a deal together (with a full-time analyst) about 2 weeks after we started interning, and I ended up having to do pretty much all of his part since the full-time analyst gave us stuff together. It would honestly have been easier to just do the work alone, as re-doing stuff he did and answering his constant questions just wasted so much time. Luckily I didn't have to work with him after that, but still it's clear that banks employ people like this as analysts (as indicated by his ability to secure 3 more job offers) so what does that hold for the majority of analysts who are actually competant? Would the bank just fire someone like this, or do they let him hang on for 2 years?
i've heard of horrible analysts from those who had to work with them. i guess they don't get fired outright but are given an embarassingly low bonus in order to make them leave.
I think pushed out is what happens.
it will be very difficult to fire him because he is a minority. the bank will fear retaliation of a lawsuit that can run into the millions of dollars. they may as well keep him around, perhaps demote him to back office or something of that sort.
Are you sure this analyst you are describing is not yourself?
As you continue in your career, you will find that underperformers are omnipresent in every company at all levels. Just as we're forced to deal and work for exhaustively difficult or demanding managers, your peers are equally capable of the same agitation and mal-performance.
Instead of complaining about the individual, because only their manager and HR can terminate them anyway, (and trust me, people who continue to under-perform are EVENTUALLY uncovered and either fired or pushed out per ratul's response) why don't you expend more energy on attempting to try and motivate that person, being frank with them about their performance, and attempting to manage your situation instead of just responding to it.
Dav3100, a lesson in life and "success" if you will. Regardless of where you are within the I-Bank, The MD's around you with the 7 figure salaries and the highest ranks of executives within a firm do and have done much more than just produce results. They have learned to manage the perception of themselves and the behavior of the people around them, below them and above them appropriately. Just some career advice going forward...
In my previous life I worked as an analyst at JP. We did have one analyst who was horrible. He did get booted. Granted, it was 2002 and the times were lean, but at the end, his performance just didn't warrant a paycheck.
Vadremc - your comments are interesting, but as an analyst, who am I to be lecturing a fellow analyst about performance and trying to motivate him/her? I just feel it would be wildly inappropriate. I was asked by the full-time analyst "how it was going" about a week into my work was the crappy SA and I told him it was fine (he obviously realized it wasn't after another week when he saw me there till 2am and the crappy SA leaving to party at 9pm). I didn't tell him that the other guy sucked since I thought that would reflect poorly on me.
maybe the analyst in question didn't want to work for that bank during the summer and was confident of getting offers from his choice banks...
Maybe..if he was sure he would be able to interview with other banks BEFORE finding out whether or not he got an offer from his summer employer. I would imagine he wasn't sure of this (although maybe this is an SEO thing and everyone in the program knows it..I don't know). Assuming he didn't know, I think he would realize that it looks really bad to not get an offer from your summer bank, and then makes it much harder to get offers from other banks. Also, getting offers from other banks isn't guaranteed, so I can't imagine he'd go in with that attitude.
Doubtful
Analysts fired... (Originally Posted: 04/14/2011)
Let's here your stories...
Not the one's who came to their senses and left or the ones pushed out because they couldn't advance.
Should be some good one's here...
It was right before I started at the firm a few years ago, but apparently there was an associate who had been with us for like 6 months that got fired ON THE SPOT.... she apparently miscalculated some numbers and then when the chairman of my firm, who was in town for an LP due diligence call, came over and politely asked her to doublecheck them because they seemed wrong, she insisted, before double-checking, that he should use a calculator to double check them because she was "sure they weren't wrong"... he didn't double check them... he just laughed softly, then looked at one of our MDs who was in the room. After a 3 second pause he told her she was fired, effective immediately. Then he walked over to an analyst sitting next to her (who told me this story) and asked nicely if he'd mind doublechecking the numbers again... he did and they were wrong.
^ Wow... that's stupidly ballsy of her
Yes Very Ballsy! Wow lol
What was the calculation?
It was 48 / 2(9+3)
Did she know that it was the chairman making the request? That's not ballsy, that's idiotic!
we need to have emoticons on the site, so i can add the blackberry dancing smiley here.
How many of you always feel on the verge of being fired? (Originally Posted: 10/03/2011)
I am not talking about working at MS or something, because we all know the chances of out-right being fired there are fairly slim.
But what about those of us who come from non-targets with limited backgrounds and work at true boutiques?
By boutique I mean far from NY, $5-50M deals, hires 3-4 analysts (most from out of state) and has fairly decent local reputation.
I have been in for a few weeks and continue to learn a lot. I cannot help but to feel that when I take too long to do something (mostly because I am learning new models) or input a wrong date or something that my job is on the line.
I am just wondering if it is me or if other people constantly feel like they are on the verge of being fired.
This was a common feeling for me for my first two years, especially my first couple months. I mean there is always that risk, especially in a long-term secular bear, but that is why you save money like crazy.
As a junior employee, you are probably a fairly good deal relative to the guys earning 2-3x as much as you. It's just important that people see your work as generally high quality and that you do produce something. As long as you're in that camp and you're cheap, you have a dramatically lower risk of losing your job. Ironically, the folks less concerned about getting laid off- the ones with 5-10 years of experience and clocking bigger pay- are the ones who have the highest risk of getting culled.
TIP: Don't plan on having kids while working in this industry until you own your home outright and have the ability to cut back to 60 hours/week.
I'm also paranoid. I'm about 10-11 months in and I don't make mistakes often...but when I do something stupid, I feel like my analyst is disappointed and he's going to ask for a new associate lol.
That feeling is slowly going away but it's still there. There is one thing that makes me feel better, and that's the fact that analysts hate training new associates and having to waste months on getting you up to speed. So unless you're making excessive mistakes, I wouldn't worry (given that your shop isn't going to do lay offs or close down).
Also, I liked what Illini said.
I used to always feel like I was on the verge of getting canned. I think when you are new in any job or industry, you are putting pressure on yourself to perform at a level you THINK those around you expect of you. So, when you fuck up, you get into your head that you have to be doing a lot worse then everyone else when they first started.
I think this will go away once you are familiar with the the work you are doing and the people in the office. You will finally realize that you were worried about stupid shit for nothing.
I think most bankers can relate to this feeling and people in investment banking tend to be a little neurotic, overly-competitive, never satisfied and always a little in fear. Honestly, banks try to attract and promote this type of personality... If you observe senior bankers a lot, they exemplify this trait the most...
Conceptually, bankers are salesmen who generate fees on the deals they broker. So you actually should prefer bankers who are toned-down versions of Patrick Bateman (i.e. American Psycho's business card scene) - always competitive and afraid to be outdone by his peers... The positive of this is that bankers are always hungry and competing for deals. Their fortune and fame are intricately connected to the last deal they bring in so if you don't bring in fees, you will be gone... This is the culture: you can never be satisfied and you must always be fighting for the next deal...
I felt the same way when I started if my senior caught an error, and still do sometimes when the deal flow slows down. The feeling tends to go away as you become more confident about your work product and start realizing what to keep an eye on.
Try to triple check your models and avoid making the same mistake twice.
Thanks everyone. As sad as it may sound, these responses made my day. I was starting to think I had some sort of personality disorder or something because i am pretty sure I make up 99% of it.
I will always prefer the worried and self-conscious analyst over the confident one. The former will always be worried of mistakes and still triple-check work at 6:00 am whereas the latter will most likely piss someone off at some point...
Agreed!
Agree with Illini, it does get a little better as time goes on. Sometimes, when it's crazy busy, I do worry. The best thing is to always be looking around for possible exit ops / laterals so that if it's apparent you might get axed, you can jump ship with minimal pain.
This industry isn't about security. Personally, I like trying to outdo myself and push harder to do better, but mistakes are still pretty painful. Most of the time, you really have to f*** up royally to get canned, and as long as you recover from mistakes gracefully you'll be ok......just don't make them again.
Anyone can get blindsided and make a mistake and the senior guys know this. Just keep improving and keep your options open.
Guys, similar question - I still have that feeling and it doesn't feel great to be honest... I'm pushing myself toward the limit every time I'm doing some work for the team, and if I continue doing this it will slowly build up inside until I eventually burn out.
The fact is, I think this is really the maximum a junior can do on my desk given the time and effort one can reasonably put into, and I don't complain about them at all. But the team is still not satisfied. Like, they are calling for a ridiculous time schedule for my future projects. What's wrong in here?
Just get sleep whenever you can and keep your mind sharp. Keep the drinking to a minimum, eat good food, excercise when you can, hang out with people that you like when you can. You'll get better at this.
I remember back when I worked part time. I was on a three month rolling contract and was always pissing myself if the MD found a mistake I had made. Not having the job security made me into a better employee, because I double checked, triple checked and learned much more than I had too. Took me a full year to relax a bit, but looking back it was all worth the pain and anxiety.
Don't worry, be happy.
A rolling 3 month contract? F-me. That is crazy stressful.
Started in the fall of '08. I was just glad I got the experience and insight.
I am more worried that the other people will drop the ball and the firm won't be able to properly monetize the value I created (and in turn underwhelm me at bonus time).
Thus far I've heard "don't work that hard" rather than "yeah, I'm gonna need you to go ahead and come in on Saturday, too. Mmmkay? I need those TPS reports... ASAP" lol
Getting fired as an analyst? (Originally Posted: 04/27/2014)
I joined a group off cycle and have been there for about 2 months. I'm really worried I'm going to get fired, I've been making a lot of mistakes on files, feel like I'm not getting along with my co-workers, and I got replaced on a file I was working on.
People have told me not to worry because only "really bad" analysts get fired, but now I feel like I've become one of those "really bad" analysts. Is there a chance I could get fired?
Unfortunately I don't think that anyone on here can accurately assess your situation without being there/seeing it...just do the best you can, try to get on with your co-workers and keep in mind that people understand there is a learning curve, esp. if you've joined off-cycle and didn't go through the training program.
I could be wrong and others may have more insight
Manage your managers. Go talk to your immediate supervisors, ask for a informal performance review, explain how you feel you are doing, and get their opinions on how to get better. Just by having this conversation will show you care and are trying to improve. It will also buy you some time to implement their advice.
Work your ass off.
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