Do I have any serious chance at front office anywhere?
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I don't even know where to start, but I'll tug at the thread that really stuck out to me: when you say PA, are you referring to trying to become physicians assistant?
100% doom and gloom.
Dude, get a grip. Plenty of F500 rotational programs, banks hiring credit analysts, MM and Boutique IBs that would hire you if you know your shit, etc. And PWM at a big bank is a great gig also.
Stop being so negative. Go to the career services or a friend who is in banking and get some honest feedback. You might be your own worst enemy.
What kind of activities would one of these F500 rotations entail? I know how they're "leadership development," or "finance development" but where do they lead? In such a case, is the CFA useless?
To Redacted, yes I meant physician's assistant. Of course the pay isn't quite what high finance is, but its better than BO pay, and there is stability and a bigger market for PAs, whatever school they went to for PA, than for guys who couldn't cut it for front office. Hell, it seems like the only people for whom getting to front office (IB/ER/AM or PE/HF) finance is easier than medicine (MD/DO) are people from target schools, NCAA athletes, and those with 3.7+ GPAs in finance at semi-target or better.
This post makes me want to jump off a ledge it's so depressing.
I agree with TNA, you need to get a grip. You need to figure out what you want to do and make a compelling case as to why you want to do it. That being said, just try to get anything relevant to get some experience and figure out what you're good at on the job. Try hustling. It sounds to me like you don't even know what you want to do other than 'front office finance', whatever that means. Your negative attitude is going to show through when you network and interview you, so I would focus on improving that. I mean, you're focused on your looks as a guy? Nobody really gives a shit as long as your clothes fit. It's not like you're interviewing to be a female news reporter where looks actually matter.
Dude, I think I see why you're having the issues. You want to be in IB and don't understand what someone analysing credit might do or what someone does at say GE.
Also, stuff that six figures shit. Get a job and work hard and you'll make money. You better right the ship because this crap isn't going to land you a job at Baskin Robins let alone investment banking.
This thread reminds me of:
HE NEEDS TO KNOW
Also, with regard to money, isn't the reason we all work or wanna work to make a living, support ourselves? If I'm not gonna be on a serious path, then I could be wasting my time. I already work hard, but am not getting the kind of output I put in, so far.
You sound like somebody I would really want to punch in the face.
I would give you a banana if I could
If you think you can't make a great living in PWM then you really don't know what you are doing. Read the forums here and do some additional research.
Sorry bro....you're a little delusional. @fourwes pretty much hit the nail on the head. Nobody really gives a shit that you didn't have good career counselors. If you told someone that, they would likely laugh in your face. Just read that out loud and see how it would sound to you. At some point, you need to take some responsibility for your actions, which seems to be the recurring issue for you. Man the fuck up buddy.
You actually do have below average qualifications (less than 3.4 GPA, experience in a boiler room) which means you need to grind it out networking that much harder, which you don't seem willing to do.
Taking all of this into account, you probably should just become a male nurse like you said and be done with it.
You have this combination of below average qualifications, ignorance regarding most things finance, and then a sense of superiority/entitlement with respect to the jobs and information you deserve from others. You need to work harder and change your attitude, otherwise you will continue to struggle. Take the time to learn more about the different fields within finance, find something you could be passionate about, learn the details of that discipline, and then network aggressively. Once you have a better grasp on things it should be easier to convey your interest enthusiastically.
You can definitely live a solid life in a long term ops career at a bank, especially outside NYC. All I have to add - rest has already been covered. Your flip flopping about jobs and mentioning becoming a PA illustrates you don't really know what you want to do - figure it out and find a way to make it happen.
Here are probably one thousand threads about networking on WSO alone. Try any of the techniques that others have mentioned. It's really not complicated, it just requires action.
With your resume? Probably.
With your attitude? Absolutely not.
You need to grow a pair and stop feeling sorry for yourself.
I reread this whole thread again and have one thing to say to the OP:
10/10
This was trolling done well. You had me fooled, but the little bit over the top comments, fatalism, inability to recognize your own flaws, comparing your looks to Brad Pitt, and the desire to become a male nurse was a well tied together troll job. A+
+1
update: PLEASE an answer on that. Thanks.
Duke University Econ major 3.7 GPA Finance or investments club member Sophomore internship in Merrill wealth in hometown Junior Internship at Credit Suisse investment banking in New York
I'd say the above is about your average competition, but I haven't recruited for analysts in a long time. Maybe someone else can chime in.
This is the type of thread that keeps me entertained while waiting for people to get off the plane after we've landed.
Not sure if master troll or not. Seriously, what are you looking for people to say? You don't even have an offer yet but you look down on Ops and PWM...
Below average is being unemployed. Average is getting offers. Above average is getting your dream offer.
Anyways. You have your head pretty far up your ass, so maybe work on that first.
Not every program uses MBA classes for the MSF and not every program has great inflation. In my experience there is definitely grade deflation. Not saying you are all wrong, but not every program is the same.
Also, to clarify one which is "more quantitative," I didn't mean to say that the MSF individual classes are more quant, but the overall list of courses one takes is more quantitative overall. No one is buying the idea that marketing, ops, etc. are more quantitative than anything.
You gotta be shittin me with this
Brohan : how many people have you contacted about a job since you started this thread?
DickFuld is on point.
I graduated from a MSF program with 3.1 GPA. My undergrad was in politics so obviously not quant. Least coordinated person you'd ever meet so not an athlete. My father is an engineer working in China and my mother is a stay-home housewife so zero born-into connections. My friends tell me I'm a little bit socially awkward and I struggle with self-confidence here and there so not your typical front office type.
This is what I have learnt within the last 6 months. If you hustle, you will get what you want eventually.
Through being a thick-skinned shameless s-o-b, I got a strategy research stint on the trading floor of a big investment bank. Then I got an investment analyst position at a startup hedge fund. Then I managed to find my perfect mentor, who has just raved about me to his friend, a senior MD and CEO at the local office of a top-notch boutique IB looking to hire IB analysts, who now wants to have lunch with me.
Even though I have screwed up tons of times (missed most graduate deadlines AGAIN, literally just made a complete fool of myself at an interview for a position at GS which is essentially my dream job - structured finance + trading, etc.), you pick yourself right back up, learn from why you screwed up, and then keep moving forward.
JohnBrohan, you don't take any job you can get in the front office - that is short-sighted and however much money you will make, there will always be people making more than you because they actually love what they do. I literally cried the first time I walked onto the trading floor; I squealed in the office when I finally managed to find the right algo a CTA was using to buy/sell IRS; I ditched my boyfriend last night to read the live transcript of Draghi announcing QE plans.
I know I might settle for an M&A role if it comes along but I also know that I will keep on working towards becoming a trader and you know what, even though GS might have put a blackmark beside my name after my horrendous interview with them, I am going to reach out to the same people next year begging them for another chance after I have made myself more technically prepared for the role.
It sounds really cliche but finding what makes you tick will completely change the way you see things and approach your jobhunt.
Yeah, my boss sacked me on the spot. In all seriousness, good thing my job and my boss weren't in trading, and were in research instead, otherwise I might've really been given the boot right away.
How did u hustle your way? just networking or did you study?
OK so maybe the front office is off limits for now but do I have a shot at middle office? Non-MBB consulting? Or am I just fucked bc I am simply way too old (>25) without any good internship/job experience aside from a chop shop, a low GMAT (many jobs ask for the score)? What kind of career progression is possible from middle office? I'm starting to see that Wall Street seems to be a very image/topical based industry to get into, as in yea there's not much true intellect behind much of the "math" most people do in actual jobs, so the barriers to entry are therefore very superficial and superfluous.
Back office, sorry, nope. I currently go to a semi-target, not a non-target school. Aside from the lack of pay/career & exit ops.
You have a ridiculously bad attitude. People aren't saying front office is off limits, people are saying you have to hustle and do a lot more to get there - your interpretation of that to mean "front office is off limits" shows what people are talking about. Nothing wrong with back office, and no one really cares about the distinction between back and middle office you're making in your head to justify your "semi-target" degree. You truly sound like someone who thinks he's way too good for things your attitude probably makes you unqualified for.
Hahahaha. Pathetic.
.
Wow. Just wow.
OP, I actually went to an Ivy for my undergrad. But I couldn't secure a job in finance to save my life. But that didn't stop me from pursuing it nor did it stop me from working hourly wage job for 14 months so that I could support myself to stay in NYC to network.
You think back office is below you? What would you then think about a job working as a tour guide giving tours at Statue of Liberty and the Empire State Building? Because that's exactly what I did. I didn't care what kind of job it was...I was willing to do anything to support myself in hopes of pursuing my passion in finance. I was on my feet 12 hours a day getting paid $10/hr and would come home and work on my market research notes for another 6 hours before waking up the next day to do the same.
I use to look up locations of the HF offices that I would kill to work for and on my way to work at 5 in the morning, I would drop my research note that I had worked on the night before at the mail room on the ground floor and plead with the mailroom ladies to to pass along the notes to xyz hedge fund on xx floor.
Looking back, I don't know how I survived those 14 months. There were days all I could afford to eat was something off the dollar menu at Wendy's near Columbus circle/8th Ave or dollar slices at Two Bros Pizza. But you know what, my persistence and respect for hard work eventually paid off.
OP, I did get the FO job that you seek at a large hedge fund. I had no IB or finance background (my major was philosophy) or family connections (my parents still live paycheck to paycheck).
In the end, it wasn't the degree on my wall that got my first job. It was my utmost respect for everyone regardless of their job/social standing and unrelenting belief that despite the world being largely unfair.. it could never cast a shadow large enough to block out the positive light emanating from within.
And to the people attacking my attitude, this is pure hypocrisy. Are there not a thousand people here who aren't the most "qualified" trying to get hired? I've already had hourly wage jobs, already had jobs in the periphery of finance low on the totem pole, like the chop shop I was in, I've already interviewed for temp operations jobs and applied to several dozen of them. I've already humbled myself. How much is enough? If you wanna just tell me "finance isn't for you," than be honest. I'm fine for middle office spots, like credit analyst, etc. But I'm not gonna chase a unicorn that's clearly getting away. This isn't like I'm some huge personality mismatch: I played sports when I was younger and am fit/in-shape, I was in a frat in college, I'm not a teetotaler, nerd, etc.
I'm just tired of the bullshit.
You won't ever have a shot at anything interesting OP. The problem is not your background nor your age. The problem is your attitude. Anything can be taught, except for attitude unfortunately. Good luck buddy, you will very much need it.
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