Do you ever stop and think if the hours are worth it?

I love finance, I really enjoy working in it. The numbers, the models (excel), all of it.

However the hours are somewhat getting to me. Although I probably don't have the very worst hours out there, having my weekdays being constrained to long days in the office and limited sleep is just not great. Little by little I've been forced to give up so many of the things I enjoy in life as banking takes up more and more of my time.

Then when I do get to the weekends I'm so tired that I just don't want to do anything really and just want to relax. Meaning I'm doing even less with my life.

Yeah the money is ok, but it's not that amazing considering all you're giving up. Not sure I want to look back on my 20s and think that all I did was work.

Has anyone else been having thoughts such as these? How do you deal with it?

 

I only do about 50 hrs pw but always wonder that if there's genuinely people that work consistent 100hr wks in their 20's, and are only really motivated by money or business, they could always take 2 years out of work and put their time towards being a rapper or something. After 2 years of 100hr weeks I recon you'd come up with at least one hit.

 
TommyGunn:

I only do about 50 hrs pw but always wonder that if there's genuinely people that work consistent 100hr wks in their 20's, and are only really motivated by money or business, they could always take 2 years out of work and put their time towards being a rapper or something. After 2 years of 100hr weeks I recon you'd come up with at least one hit.

What kind a job do you do that only requires 50h weeks?

I just did a 70h a week where I got in before 8 and left at around 11 and I thought that this was already pretty bad since by the end of the week that much work and limited sleep was really getting to me. Even now on the weekend I'm still feeling the tiredness of the week. I just don't understand how people could genuinely do 100h weeks and not just once but all the time. Or they're exaggerating their hours.

 

I see too many old people (40+) living in shitholes with barley a few grand in savings.

The people I know who hustled young are all more worried about where to put their mils to get 10% return than how to pay for their mortgage.

I'd rather be in the latter. Working hard is fun too (usually).

 
differentialequations12:

I see too many old people (40+) living in shitholes with barley a few grand in savings.

The people I know who hustled young are all more worried about where to put their mils to get 10% return than how to pay for their mortgage.

I'd rather be in the latter. Working hard is fun too (usually).

that has nothing to do with how much you earn. you'd be surprised how many arm houses and leased vehicles live in 300k+ neighborhoods and negative net worth. plenty of hilljack country folk that would embarrass many on here of the same age.

If the glove don't fit, you must acquit!
 

Grind in your 20s so that you can live the life nobody else is able to later on, you need to learn to love the hard work. It only gets better from here, just stick it out and don't give up.

"Well, you know, I was a human being before I became a businessman." -- George Soros
 
Futures Trader Man:

Grind in your 20s so that you can live the life nobody else is able to later on, you need to learn to love the hard work. It only gets better from here, just stick it out and don't give up.

differentialequations12:

I see too many old people (40+) living in shitholes with barley a few grand in savings.

The people I know who hustled young are all more worried about where to put their mils to get 10% return than how to pay for their mortgage.

I'd rather be in the latter. Working hard is fun too (usually).

SF_G:

Nothing is a freebie. If you're trying to generate wealth that 99% of the population will never have, it's going to take a lot of work. If you play your cards right, you'll be able to retire in your 30's or at least before 40. Continue to live below your means, cash nice-sized paychecks, and eventually you can say screw it if finance doesn't interest you enough as a long-term career.

I completely sympathize with these viewpoints, of course I would like a comfortable life (as would anyone).

However I don't necessarily agree that the only way to a comfortable life is to work myself to near death in a big city investment bank. There are other options out there, even within finance. The world is not so one sided.

And retiring in my 30s? I'm not sure what world you're living in but I have not heard of anything like that actually happening, I think very very few people actually achieve that kind of income to be able to afford that. Plus I don't want to retire anyway, I want to keep working.

 
williamthesnake:
There are other options out there, even within finance. The world is not so one sided.

And retiring in my 30s? I'm not sure what world you're living in but I have not heard of anything like that actually happening, I think very very few people actually achieve that kind of income to be able to afford that. Plus I don't want to retire anyway, I want to keep working.

It's more of taking it easy rather than full out retirement. If you get into IB/high finance straight out of college and save a good portion of your paycheck until you're 30, you'll be set. You can go start a business, or pursue a career that makes you more happy. Even if you fail at whatever you're pursing, you'll still be financially comfortable from all the banking $$ you saved up.
 

Nothing is a freebie. If you're trying to generate wealth that 99% of the population will never have, it's going to take a lot of work. If you play your cards right, you'll be able to retire in your 30's or at least before 40. Continue to live below your means, cash nice-sized paychecks, and eventually you can say screw it if finance doesn't interest you enough as a long-term career.

 

I've been hearing people mention retiring in their 30's and 40's quite often on WSO recently. What's so attractive about this? I highly doubt you can keep yourself occupied for 50-60 years without having a job. Furthermore, you'd probably end up living frugally towards the end of your life as you begin to run out of money. With all the advances in medicine these days, hitting 100 may even become the norm by the time we're in our 80's. So why not keep working? If anything, you should consider taking a risk, such as starting your own firm, when you're in your 40's as opposed to just cashing out. If money doesn't matter at that point, build a legacy for yourself.

 
354231:

I've been hearing people mention retiring in their 30's and 40's quite often on WSO recently. What's so attractive about this? I highly doubt you can keep yourself occupied for 50-60 years without having a job. Furthermore, you'd probably end up living frugally towards the end of your life as you begin to run out of money. With all the advances in medicine these days, hitting 100 may even become the norm by the time we're in our 80's. So why not keep working? If anything, you should consider taking a risk, such as starting your own firm, when you're in your 40's as opposed to just cashing out. If money doesn't matter at that point, build a legacy for yourself.

Just retirement in the sense of no longer being a slave to money or moving on to another career/endeavor. Some stay in finance in some form, start their own business, jump into another career, do public service, or just travel/recharge/do whatever.

 
emceedrive:

How many career bankers have you met that retired in their 30's or 40's? More to the point, are you out of high school yet?

And how many age 60+ bankers are there waiting around for their Social Security to kick in? Very few. It's not a standard work-til-you're-65 career. There are bankers who retire in their 30's and many who retire in their 40's. Some on the other hand, do work for as long as they can for a variety of reasons. But banking is not a career full of old-timers.

And yes, smartass, my status is definitely more to the point of this thread. I work at a hedge fund. Who cares...

 

I am transitioning from a job where 60 hour weeks was the max to a job where 60 hour weeks are normal and could go up to 100 hours per week.

The way I see it, sure less hours now are nice and sure it gives me time for my hobbies and spending time with friends. But to be honest I feel like I'm wasting time, like I'm just floating and not working towards anything. I think I'd rather work crazier hours towards a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow rather than working an idle 45 hour week so I can go to more thirsty Thursday's, or build that PC I've kind of wanted to build.

So I think it comes down to what kind of person you are. I'm a workaholic at heart that wants to be the best in my niche for better or worse. So career is a very important priority to me. While I know some friends that just want a stable job so they can settle down and start a family. For you I suggest figuring out what's most important to you in your life and steer it towards that direction. At the end of the day it's your life and it's up to you to make the most of it.

 
Best Response

For everyone advocating killing yourselves at work in your 20s so you don't live in a shithole in your 40s, and who know all these rich older folks who "did it right", why don't you go ask them what they'd rather be: wealthy at their age (40s, 50s, whatever) or to be 20 years old and have to figure it all out again.

I'll bet you'll be surprised by their answers. For me it's a no-brainer.

 
Eddie Braverman:

For everyone advocating killing yourselves at work in your 20s so you don't live in a shithole in your 40s, and who know all these rich older folks who "did it right", why don't you go ask them what they'd rather be: wealthy at their age (40s, 50s, whatever) or to be 20 years old and have to figure it all out again.

I'll bet you'll be surprised by their answers. For me it's a no-brainer.

Don't leave us hanging: what have you found these people to be saying?
 

+1. At one class in business school they handed out packets of alumni reflections that were written at 5 year, 10 year, 20 year, etc class reunions. They had each group summarize the packet they got an present it to the class. The alumni who wrote them ranged from middle management to MDs to people who'd made $100MM+ as entrepreneurs. I can't remember one single summary that was not almost entirely focused on "I wish I'd spent more time with my family friends and worked less".

 

Nobody on their deathbed has ever said "I wish I had spent more time at the office".

Do what you have to do get ahead, but don't let work consume your life. At the end of the day, it's just a job. You have to balance working hard and progressing in your career with actually enjoying your life. I get many of you love the prospect of banking and making a ton of dough, moving onto PE/HF, retiring young, etc., but you should also take time in your 20s and early 30s (especially pre-kids) to travel places you want to go, attend happy hours and fun events with friends, try that art class on Groupon you thought might be fun, etc.

 

The only death-related maxim I pay heed to was told to me by the wife of a guy who sold his US Asset Management firm to a global asset manager for $600MM back in the early 2000's:

"You can't take it with you when you die."

"It" being money. The context being that she was justifying her latest Rolls Royce purchase.

 

I made this choice a couple years ago. I had two options on the table - one with a decent Investment Bank doing ER and the other with a F500 company in corporate finance. I ended up choosing hours and perceived enjoyability over the incremental salary and recognition.

I worked 40 hours every single week during the first 1.5 years of the job and never longer. I could take vacation time whenever I wanted and often in excess of the two weeks I was allotted. I took up new hobbies, took long lunch breaks, and never brought my computer or work phone home the entire time I worked there. The work was ok. It was mostly forecasting, budgeting and making basic powerpoints. I don't know if I ever felt intellectually stimulated by any of the problems work presented me.

After my first year and a half, I was told there would be layoffs in my department and that I should go get another job. I struggled to get interviews at most of the jobs I wanted, most of them citing that they preferred a former banker or consultant. I ended up getting another job, but its fairly similar to my old job and all of the opportunities I want still feel out of reach.

At the end of the day - work is work. Most jobs you aren't really going to like. Just look for a place that doesn't kill you and will pay you well where you can reasonably stand your coworkers.

Not many jobs pay what IB/PE/HF/VC/Consulting do. A 24 year old banker makes more than most directors at F500 companies, and their salary scale doubles in 1/5th of the time. Money isn't everything, but it makes your life a hell of a lot easier. You can always take a lower paying job but once you get off the high finance train its hard to get back on if you don't go for an MBA. My advice would be just to tough it out for a few years and make more money than 90%+ of your friends and get to work around really smart and motivated people.

 

See: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/yes-you-are-having-a-quarter-life…

Anyways, here's my take on it all. 1. Grinding away like a slave has a diminishing return - the first few years are a no brainer, you're literally twice as rich as other people your age save a handful of entrepreneurs, heirs, and the lucky. 2. After a few years, your experience and savings (you should have some) allow you the ability and freedom to make a move into a more lucrative position (e.g. PE, the promised land or even taking a RE specific knowledge for example and applying it at a VC for RE apps firm), side investments, start a company with your friends, fund an aspiring artist, whatever you can think of. but at this point you should have a bit of financial freedom and way more skills/experience than most people your age. 3. Now, finally, after digging through all that garbage you can start to take control and craft your own life, you might be 27-30 years in age and really man, you're in a freakin' good position.

 

I was placed in the unfortunate position of having a foreign work Visa withdrawn three weeks prior to my start date (first job out of undergrad). I spent three months without a job, networking and grinding all while working part time jobs to make ends meet. Those three months were brutal, not because of the financial burden, but because I was so anxious to begin my "career." I remember thinking to myself how nice it would be to be able to sit down and grind out a long workday at an office job. Fast forward, and I have terrible weeks when I am burned out, frustrated, and demoralized, but NONE of it is worse than the feeling I had in the pit of my stomach during those three months. This is probably not an easy feeling to relate to, but for me, it comes down to remembering how awful it was not having the chance to work hard, which far outweighs the sacrifices we make to work at the places we do.

 

One thing I want to share with you guys who are working these long hours is that the social life you see is mostly a mirage. Selfies at bars/night-clubs, yacth week, and people pretending to be each other's friends. I've seen so many instances of your typical college girl smiling in selfies in a split second later resorting to putting on her usual resting bitch face. To the hard working banker, it may seem like everyone is having this alcohol fueled fast life filled with good friends, fun times, romance, and the kind of stuff you would see in a Taylor Swift video but it is rarely so. How quickly you realize that the guy who is taking selfies with a few cute girls in his social circle is actually stuck in the dreaded friend zone.

By the way, stop comparing yourself and your life to that of hot girls that are either college aged or in their early 20s. You will never have it as easy as those girls who practically have it all handed to them but that's okay, sometimes being spoiled brings upon its own set of problems.

I believe this is a classic example of the grass being greener on the other side. Believe me guys, your situation is definitely a lot better than that of these starving 20 somethings who partied their lives away and now put up the few good moments of their lives on social media in an attempt to come off as the modern day Great Gatsby.

I know, I brought into this whole "20s are the time to try it all" mentality and lost the ambition and drive I had at the time. The whole "friends and family", "take it slow and enjoy life", and "you're young, you have plenty of time to turn it around". All the while, my few friends who did pursue their academic passions pushed themselves hard and missed out on the partying. Most of these guys are now working for places like Google, JP Morgan, Microsoft, and other prestigious places making bank in their 20s. I am happy for them, they are my friends, but damn I feel like total shit to know where I am at my age (25) compared to where they are now.

My friends who also bought into this take it slow idea with me? Back home with parents after college wondering how they are going to get out now, some working retail jobs, some working low level jobs that barely pay 40k, and a few having to go back for a second bachelors because they learned the hard way that a liberal arts degree is mostly worthless.

I can see it now, when the 30s come, the former are going to be in a much better shape as the latter have to play catch up in a huge way.

Unfortunately, I was pushed into being a science major by my parents who were pressuring me to go to med school, a path I did not want to go on. I did the dumbest thing a guy can do and didn't look out for my grades my final two years of college, that led me to graduating with a bio major and a GPA in the low 2s. Just didn't enjoy the subject, did not have the guts to stand up to my parents and switch majors, and I could not see myself ever going into the field at all because I really hated the sciences. My mind was elsewhere and I was not 100% focused in a major where you have to be on top of your game or else your GPA will go right down the toilet.

I had to find work as a lab tech which didn't have banker type of hours or hardly any pay (lol 30k), ended up having to take up a second job as a bartender just so I do not have to live with my freaking parents at the age of 25.

I recommend reading a book called "The Defining Decade" by Dr. Meg Jay, it will open up your eyes to the situation commonly encountered by a lot of 20 somethings. The book is a short read as well, it definitely gave me some perspective.

 

"Do you want to make bank bro, get ass and drive range rover?" Then suck it up and keep doing what you do. Just kidding ;)

To be serious, it really depends on how many efforts it took you to get there, where you are and how you respect what you have. It is insane (for me) that sometimes my peers start to whine about hours and even pay. They probably should have known what is it be in finance. Especially in my country, where financial market is so tiny and it is extremely competitive and hard to break in. They argue that there are entrepreneurs of our age who have a better lifestyle and who make a lot more than us. Partially it is true.

However there several points: - First, there is no romance to be poor, but free. I have been there. I know what it is. I do remember how we were that much poor, so we could not afford even food. I do not want to get back there. - Second, those guys who whine about how "MISERABLE" (compared to hot tech start-up founders) their pay is and how terrible hours are, this is just bullshitting, they do not have guts, as if they did they would not whine, but go quit and do something about it. This is kind of immature. - Last but not least, at the moment I've realised that my reason of existence became a constant process of filling my life with people and things that help me not to feel bored. I do love my job as many other people here. This is like I do not feel myself bored when I work, do you feel the same way?

P.S. pardon my English :)

 

"non-stop action" hahaha...just sitting at my desk thinking about the work I did today for the handful of deals and pitches I'm on and the term "non-stop action," like Stalone swinging through the window of fiery jet, is not exactly what I would have used to describe my day.

This shit is just a job folks, lets keep it all in perspective. If you're questioning whether or not its worth it, and you've stuck around the business long enough to experience some of the financial/experiential benefits, you should deep-down already know the answer to that question. Turning to an internet forum is just an attempt at trying to find some like-minded folk to commiserate with. Live for you - it's worth it or it's not, but take some time to clear your head and decide for yourself then move on.

 

Working hard in your 20s is great, but I think what many may miss out on is the love life aspect. Once you have "more time" to yourself in your 30s, the A-level girls are all taken by other guys and basically you're scraping through a second tier bucket of women who did not get drafted in the first round because they are uglier / have issues / etc. Of course you will always find the endless golddigger category as well, but I doubt anyone would argue that it is a stable long term solution.

Empirically you can see 40 year old something MDs who basically have a lot of wealth but are still grinding away and outside the office they hardly have anything tangible in their lives.

 

Dude believe me do not have this viewpoint at all, I am at a BB in operations being mentored in by a Director within IBD who is trying to help me transition into FO. He is in his mid 30's. Granted he worked extremely hard in his 20's but he is dating an extremely attractive girl who is in her late 20's and has been traveling and literally doing whatever he wants. NYC is also a great place to be single in your 30's as most people do not settle down too early or unfortunately got married too early in their 20's and are now single again.

 

Lol woman in their late 20's know what kind of male they want. She wants a stable guy not the party star who she chased in the high school. It is actually easier after you grind for some time, because a lot of guys break in their mid twenties.

Stay hungry, stay foolish!
 

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