Overtime Pay for FT Analysts?

It was brought to my attention that IB analysts are non-exempt employees (for overtime pay) under federal law. Meaning that all analysts who work 40+ hours per week are due a minimum of 1.5x base salary for every hour worked over 40. However, I have never heard of an analyst sue for overtime or be permitted overtime in their contract. Keep in mind that anyone who makes $100K+ (including bonus) would be exempt, so this would likely only include those people who were either underpaid or shafted on bonuses (like in 08-09). Does anyone have more info about this? You can claim or sue for unpaid overtime retroactive up to 2 years.

Here is the Dept of Labor website which contains all of the info on the topic: http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/wages/overtimepay.htm.

 

^^ Duly noted. But it's actually illegal and against federal law for banks to not pay overtime. Laws have changed over the past 5 years and some banks/HR depts may not even be aware that they are mistaken. I would agree that any reasonably intelligent, career conscious person would only sue after they have left a job, which is why the 2 year window is so important.

 

Theoretically the ombuds process could be used to take care of this. I still wouldn't touch it.

There's also the fact that no regulator in his right mind is going to take action against a bank to make sure bankers get paid even more. And who told you analysts are nonexempt?

 

Go ahead and sue GS. They would either (a) wipe their ass with your lawsuit or (b) drag the shit out past your life expectancy just to make a point. Probably choice (a) though

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Assuming you did the basic math correctly, that is about right. I logged the hours for sure, generally about 70/wk. I paid alot originally, but got a nice Federal and NY State refund, so I can't complain too much. Just don't be too surprised when they take out 40% of your relocation bonus... if you haven't already noticed. There is no reason to really ask about other peoples tax return due to other income and exemptions, it's not going to give you a great idea.

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ccameron3:
1346/60= 22.43 is hourly rate X0.5 = Overtime Rate of 11.21
Why divide by 60? Officially, you're supposed to work 40 hours so divide by 40. Normal hourly rate should be 33.65
 

Yeah sorry didn't look at that, yeah you divide by 40.

Jack: They’re all former investment bankers who were laid off from that economic crisis that Nancy Pelosi caused. They have zero real world skills, but God they work hard. -30 Rock
 

Nope, you divide by 60, the OP had it right.

If this is the same as my firm, you take what your pro-rated salary would be and divide it by the number of hours you worked, then multiply that by .5 to get the half time, then multiply that number by the number of hours over 40 that you worked, add it to your salaried wage and theres your pay. Come on guys, its in the offer letter, your going to be in S&T and you can't even do basic algebra...

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You get additional pay for more work. Your salary is at 40 hours per week. If it takes you more hours to get work done, you get half-time for the additional hours. The OP's math is right on.

As far as taxes go, individual circumstances and deductions will alter the amount taken out as well as potential refunds.

 

I don't know what bank you are specifically working at, but I know at MS it was my salary divided by 40hrs and then any additional hours at that 1/2 rate. So it would be 33.65 for first 40 hrs, and then $16.83 for every hour over 40. I personally logged all of my hours (in IBD). Typically my associate would just look at it and tell me I am working to hard, if anything at all.

 

Wow. Uncle Sam really screwed me over....40% taxes on my relocation bonus? Is this what it feels like to be an "Evil wall st banker"?

And obama complains about bonuses...i dont get it

If a wall st ceo makes 500k a year and geta s 10 million dollar bonus....

He'd take home 300k in salary and 6 million in bonuses... 6.3m isnt much.

So half the NBA/NFL players make more than a Wall St CEO and nobody complains.

More taxes and regulation on the way.

 

You'll get a lot of it back, but its still annoying.

Jack: They’re all former investment bankers who were laid off from that economic crisis that Nancy Pelosi caused. They have zero real world skills, but God they work hard. -30 Rock
 

OP clearly states he's paid hourly.

OP, people in IB/consulting etc don't really get overtime/record it (from what I've read/heard/seen) - whether you choose to will have to be a decision you make. However, the impression you give working the extra hours without logging overtime will definitely be different to one you give if you log every minute of overtime you work.

 

It's a question of exempt or non exempt employment status. I'm not an expert but in my mind if you're paid hourly youre basically non exempt and should get overtime. Anyone please correct me if I'm wrong and I know there are more legal criteria for the distinctions (but they tend to bring exempt employees back to non exempt from what I've seen rather than take a non-exempt to exempt). An FT IB analyst is definitely exempt or IB's would be paying a few hundred grand a year in overtime to them. Although it could be a way of "proving" yourself to get a promotion, it's an idiotic move on the part of the company because it opens them to lawsuits and big government fines.

 

Never been in the situation but I would record the hours and run it through my boss, somewhat regularly via email in order to have a written record of it. In my mind it's on them for making you an hourly employee.

I also would be looking for other work if I was at a company like that. I didn't go to school to be an hourly employee, let alone an hourly employee at a company where the culture appears to be taking it in the ass on compensation you are entitled to (by their choice to structure it that way BTW).

 

piggybacking on this, you don't want to seem too eager to take the extra time but you also have a right to record overtime if that's standard procedure. I would just ping your supervisor an email and say "I'm at X hours right now and if I work these hours on these days, I'll have X hours of overtime. I want to work because I have XYZ going on but I just wanted to let you know so there wouldn't be any surprises."

 

Thanks for the comments. There seems to be different views on the issue. Some things to consider: If someone in HR or the office manager is the one reviewing hours (not necessarily your direct supervisor), it may look bad that you clock in and leave right on the dot. Then again, you don't want to be milking the company for every dime possible. Is there a middle ground?

 
Best Response

I agree with @archervice about it being shitty and perhaps looking for a new gig but I remember when I was first out of school I knew a couple of entry level analysts on the brokerage side (I worked in REPE so when we were buying something they were often my counterparts on the transaction) and I remember some weird hourly comp packages they had. I don't remember exact details because it was a long time ago and it wasn't me personally, but they were hourly employees who worked for a few different investment sales guy and were expected to work far more than 40 hours and not claim OT but at the end of the year or when a broker did a big deal the individual brokers would throw them bonuses. RE brokerage used to be very much this way-pay and treat the entry level guys like crap and make them earn the right to be producers-and I thought the industry had become slightly more institutional but I guess I was wrong. But a few of them advanced and have made really good money over the years.

In any case, it's still really stupid for a company to do this. It just opens up too much liability.

 

Relevant situation here.

Started in a position last fall 2013 (salaried). This July, the firm decided several entry level positions were non exempt, including mine. Back pay was going to be given to anyone who worked over 40 hours. I did not log over 40 hours, because I didn't think it was beneficial (to me personally at least), and will not get a dime. This isn't IB, so it's not like I was working 80+ hours a week, but in the range of 50-70. Would have been a nice check.

Now though, I record mine hours accurately and get overtime. If you are paid hourly, and will get paid in excess over 40 hours, record it. You're not working for free.

 
cbitters:

Relevant situation here.

Started in a position last fall 2013 (salaried). This July, the firm decided several entry level positions were non exempt, including mine. Back pay was going to be given to anyone who worked over 40 hours. I did not log over 40 hours, because I didn't think it was beneficial (to me personally at least), and will not get a dime. This isn't IB, so it's not like I was working 80+ hours a week, but in the range of 50-70. Would have been a nice check.

Now though, I record mine hours accurately and get overtime. If you are paid hourly, and will get paid in excess over 40 hours, record it. You're not working for free.

Interesting, do you work in CRE industry?

 

We aren't the right people to ask. Inquire with the two bosses and figure out what the office expectation is. The answer might be as simple as they expect you to book what you work and the other analyst has it totally wrong. They might not even be aware that you are working overtime. Worst that can happen is they tell you that the expectation is for you to eat a few hours a week...and at least then, you'll know.

 

As long as you actually have work to do, I don't see how you're milking money or abusing the system. I don't think you're making $500/hour so the amount of overtime you're taking (5 hours) is nothing. The other analyst at your office is a fool that's being taken advantage of.

 

I say record it and see what happens. Maybe don't record 10 mins passed the hour, but when you work a full hour of overtime consistently, record it. 5 hours of overtime is not a lot. Worst case is you'll get an email or a talk along the lines of "We'd like to keep you working 40 hours or less" which means keep working as you are, but stop recording it. It could be PERFECTLY fine and you do not want to leave the money on the table.

I have employees and when they ask about overtime (they try and claim overtime "forgetting" about their unpaid lunches, usually not with bad intentions, they just don't know), I do not get upset even when they are stretching it. EVERYONE works to make money, no sense in being shy about it. I do laugh to myself afterwards though, but I also think they are the smart ones.

 

Is it the type of thing where you don't put as many hours as you actually work? Or am I safe to assume I can write down 90 hour weeks with huge overtime?

"I did it for me...I liked it...I was good at it. And I was really... I was alive."
 

There are some groups where people have been encouraged to mismark their hours, but HR has generally weeded this practice out. It's safe to assume you can record a 90 hour work week.

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Generally we pay overtime to SA but not full-time employees. But don't try to put a absurd number of hours, because HR can easily weed you out if they want to. All they have to do is to check the time you swipe in and out.

 

Thanks for the responses guys. The position I am referring to is operations analyst on the trading desk (billing trades, monitoring settlements..). The research I have done tells me they usually pay .5 to 1.5 of your base hourly pay.

I'd love to hear from anyone else that may have some insight. Thanks.

 

i work at a mid market ibank and theres no clock in or out either, everything is on the honors system. however after submitting our time logs an admin approves it.. generally they will know if you are stretching the hours or not. be able to back up the hours with proof, obviously if you get asked... but more than likely it will not happen.

one intern was questioned for working much later than the rest of the interns for a pay cycle but things were cleared up relatively easy..

and yes we do get 1.5x base hourly salary

ethically, just don't put down more hours than you really worked. a couple of bucks here or there may add up short term, but long term its not worth the risk.

 
Colonel_Sanders:
Someone at GS tried telling me some of their ops work banker hours... if so... they'd be pulling over 150k a yr.... and thats assuming a 1st yr's base salary.

Non-administrative employees actually get 1/2 hourly salary for overtime, not 1.5x. If someone in Ops indeed worked banker hours, that would put them around 100k, not 150k which is more reasonable.

 

Is this an investment banking job? If so, yeah! Most jobs are salaried anyways.

I think we would need a few more details to give you a fair assessment of the opportunity.

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One of 2.

  1. You're a pretty damn good troll.
  2. The hours aren't that bad in AM (much less than in IBD), why would you want to stay longer for the sake of it if you're not actually producing anything?
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Why do you not claim overtime? I do not understand this. Overtime+Bonus would make you very happy considering the ridiculous hours. I mean for now they want me to log my hours into a online software. I put my hours in as I work. I obv will not be getting a bonus, but will this impact a full time offer?

 
txjustin:
Buddy, in the real world when you work on salary you are exploited by your boss and/or company. Get used to it.

Thanks for posting this, I was about to start throwing monkey shit around here.

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