Does GPA Matter?
I have noticed that a lot of people working in PE are people who have scored first class marks in their undergraduate degree (GPA of 4.0 according to IB/move into Private Equity?
Thanks!
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It's just a "foot in the door" thing, afterwards, no one gives a flying fuck about your GPA. Trust me, when you're about to become a partner 20 years down the road, you won't hear "well, we are sorry, but your ugrad GPA is too low"
I don't agree completely. Sure, when you're 40 years old it might not matter. But it's way more than just a "foot in the door thing". When you apply for SA, your GPA is critical to a first round interview. When you go to superday, your GPA will probably be one of the first impressions you give to your interviewers. If it's low, they'll ask you about it. Moving down the road when you apply to b-school, they are going to ask for your undergrad transcript & GPA.
Regardless of whether you agree, GPA is the most widely used indicator of personal performance. Just the way it is. It really doesn't make sense to say "Oh whatever my GPA is low but it doesn't matter in the long run". People who ask "does GPA matter" on these forums are people who slacked off in school, got a shitty GPA, are freaking out and are looking for re-assurance from anonymous posters.
Ya, for b-school it's important. But, wait, they want your ugrad GPA for SA? Are you sure? I seriously doubt this. It wouldn't make any sense whatsoever to gauge your ability to spit pitchbooks out of your ass by ugrad GPA as opposed to ... the actual ability to spit pitchbooks out of your ass - as demonstrated by your work record
This, of course it matters, it shows how hard you've worked. You don't need to be naturally intelligent to get a good GPA, you just need to put in the work.
nvm
Thats what I thought... but I keep seeing people who get firsts/higher GPA's get further in the process then someone with a upper second/lower GPA.
At the end of the day, all the GPA objectively says is that you took some classes and that's how you did in them. Nothing more, nothing less, and you're shitting yourself to think otherwise. If you have other attributes, then use them to your advantage, ie: connections, work ethic, brilliance, creativity, etc etc etc
I study a quantitative subject + finance and will get an upper second class for sure (because of my previous marks its going to be hard to get a first class but its still possible) and I'm at a target school. I was just worried that I would not look competitive enough or would be dinged because my grade was not impressive enough. Hence I posted on here....
I actually do several EC's outside of school and also own/run something so that takes up time. I did score a first in year 1 when i was 'free from pressure' but my second year was difficult because of personal problems (but i still got an upper second - not gloating - my grade still dropped!)
Overall I don't think I'll get a low GPA but its not going to be 4.0 either...
don't want to sound as a noob, but is SA = senior analyst?
summer analyst
Why does your tag say first year analyst?
Think the thread is being misunderstood. I meant will it matter if you get an upper second or a first class - as the minimum is an upper second for banking. I just assumed the people who get a first class will be chosen first.
Even for business school - will you be able to get into a top business school with a upper second (from a target uni) vs someone with a first class from a target uni? Are you automatically disadvantaged?
Of course you should always aim for the highest possible grade but sometimes a bad exam etc just throws you off! :S
You need to dig a little deeper on the GPA question. A lot of it depends on what your major is and what school it is from. If you have a soft major and a GPA between 3.0 and 3.5 at an Ivy (where massive grade inflation is a fact of life) it might raise some eyebrows. However, a 3.3-3.4 in a STEM field from a solid university will probably be looked at very favorably.
If I see 'BA, Yale University, 3.8 GPA, Women's Studies" on one resume and "BS, Virginia Tech, 3.4 GPA, Mechanical Engineering" on another guess which one I am more impressed with?
I think it is fairly obvious from here that GPA matters a ton. And crying over spilled milk under the bridge isn't helpful. I just need to improve mine.
Still, I worry. I have a 3.6-3.7 in one highly quantitative major and economics as my second (albeit from a non-target), and I've never been asked about my relatively poor GPA. Of course, that might be because I haven't interviewed at very competitive places yet.
Essentially, how much slack do bankers and others cut for people who are majoring in pure math, say? Those guys look at tons of apps and I have a hard time believing they actually sit there and really think about how STEM majors often justifiably have lower GPAs. They understand it, but I feel that in the moment GPA is just a number and they have subconscious cutoffs that don't discriminate on the basis of major.
I had just short of a 3.4 in Aerospace Engineering as an undergrad from a Service Academy. Nobody said anything about my GPA or made any comments about it being too low. However, I also played a varsity sport and had some other non-BS extra-curriculars. Obviously, I am biased because I was an engineering major but I would think that what you actually studied (and its perceived difficulty) goes a long way with resume reviewers.
If you have 4.0 GPA, then guaranteed first-rounds from every single bank. But ya no one gives a shit about GPA once you're in the second rounds.
Not true .... I had a GPA of 4.0 and scored 1 BB interview only.
How gpa is used in bank reason please clear me it i want to know from you please inform it to me...
u wot m8?
Does GPA matter? Does size matter?
Nah, we as humans love to quantify things to make us feel "big" or "smart". My GPA is top 5% - top 10% of my university, maybe even a little higher, but in all honesty an idiot who dedicates his time to studying can receive a high GPA.
Long live crash studying aka opening the textbook up at 1am the night before the exam and hopefully falling asleep before the sun rises.
GPA absolutely matters:
1) For getting ANY summer job, GPA is by and far the best metric of whether a candidate is smart or not. *As for their resume, it could have been built by anyone (hookups) 2) MBA programs look towards your UG GPA and difficulty to see if you can withstand the rigor of their coursework (pretty strong correlation) 3) Dick measuring
Have you received your MBA?
If not, please don't talk about this subject. Many guys at Wharton etc previously worked in Industry and with 3.0's - fact, they just got great references
byucko - so an upper second is not good enough? you need the first class in order to stand a chance long term? I'm screwed :S (upper second is 3.4+ i think when converted).
Not necessarily -"good enough" can be defined pretty widely. If your GPA sucks, that just means that doors are not open to you through that route. For instance, getting a 3.9+ from MIT means that you're a fucking smart dude, no matter how you cut it. It is very likely that this person will have a lot of doors open to him unless he's a complete social retard in the interview. However, that doesn't mean that an interviewer won't want to meet with a 3.3 who has built a business into several million in revenue or something extraordinary.
I know that. But you have to understand that this is certainly not the norm. Of course you can have anecdotal stories, but when we discuss GPA, it is in correlative terms. MOST people who apply with a 3.0 are not accepted at Wharton. But it is a believable story if someone wanted to cruise by school and do some great work later on in their life. When you go to a B-school website for the first time, you can see their average accepted GPA - and most schools worth discussing have an average higher than 3.0. And then it gives you the range and maybe reading tables is where you could have mixed up.
Should your GPA be higher than that? Yes, absolutely. Why? Because college is not all that difficult for business students (ask pre-med kids how much they have to study to get the same GPA's) and there's no reason to have a bad GPA. It's not a test of your intelligence or dedication or some other shit. Treat is as your own personal check to see that you got your shit together. Having a good GPA usually doesn't require backbreaking effort and if you're committed, I'm 100% sure you can have whatever GPA you want. I know kids with full time jobs and 3.8+ so it's definitely doable and I wish you the best of luck.
Ps. none of this conversion bs is worth anything.
US Cutoff: 3.5 UK Cutoff: Second Upper
That is all... trying to convert between systems is utter and complete bs.
It really depends. It can continue to matter later in your career (5 years in or so) if you're going after certain roles. Some hedge funds won't even talk to you if you had less than a 3.7 GPA and less than a 1400 on your SATs. It's a little ridiculous, but it's the way it is.
That said, a whole spectrum of roles don't give a fuck about your GPA once you've got some good experience under your belt.
For B-School, I'm definitely not an expert, but I've heard it can be mitigated with a really strong gmat score, solid experience, essays, and good recommendations. B-School is apparently much more about the whole story than your GPA. If you ever want to get into any law school worth attending, however, you'd better have a good GPA and a blow-the-doors-off LSAT score.
So upper second and some strong EC's would put you in a strong position?
I wouldn't say getting any GPA is easy... well at a target uni in the UK it isn't. My friend at Oxford said that only the top 15% get a first class for each exam paper (so even if you know everything its not enough - you have to know more then your peers). Im not sure how it is in the USA but we have summer exams only and can't retake if we fail.
I had below a 3.0 in undergrad, grew up with speech/learning disabilities, yet still get interviews. It's all about how you sell yourself, how hard you work, how well you present yourself, etc. Suck it up, you have a fine GPA.
I work hard but given the way my uni is I am very likely to get an upper second (minimum). Was just wondering how that affects my future job prospects/MBA applications and so on since there are really mixed comments above!
Thanks guys, this thread helps me confront my own problems with hard work/GPA. Quick question, what would you consider a decent GPA and what would be a relatively high GPA?
Seems like 3.6 is still rather on the low side and 3.7 is a cut off for decent?
Here is my 2cents. I graduated from a non-target school, had below a 3.0, was a non-finance major and landed a FT IB offer from a BB. GPA is important, but like many posters said, it is not everything. I played a D1 sport, had relevant experience via internships, and networked- These things can help overcome a low GPA. GPA is critical for students who do not have a network to help get a foot in the door. However, once you are able to land an interview, it is up to you to sell yourself and demonstrate how your GPA does not accurately reflect your work ethic, drive, intelligence, or interest in the industry. I heard 'no' 1,000,000 times but I did not give up. If you really want it, go for it.
Would love to chat with anyone who has questions.
here is my 3 cents - this post is 3 months old.
Does grades matter? (Originally Posted: 09/23/2010)
Helly everyone,
I am new to this forum and I have a question right away. I am a master student BA with a major in finance at a university in the UK (it is not an Ivy League kind of university). I have to search for an internship to finalize my study and I want to this in a HF. Just a couple of hours ago I spoke to the dean of my university to consider my options, etc. She said that grades/GPA does not matter at all (I have a 4.0 GPA, best of class, etc. for my Bba in economics and my current (MSc BA) GPA is also a 4.0.
I also followed some training programs based on investments, etc. during my holidays on which I got scores varying between 80-90% out of a 100%. I also obtained excellent letters of recommendations from a fomer employer and the dean of my former university. The lady in question said that this all doesn't matter and that they don't look at it during the selection-process or won't look at it at all. And that I should not mention the additioal training at all (these were training courses of 3 to 6 months that I followed at institutions during the holidays and free days).
I want to obtain an internship in equity research or trading at a hedge fund or investment bank in the US/UK. Will my changes increase or decrease if I put my GPA's on it and sending the letters of recommendations? Maybe it's a stupid question to ask but I really need to be sure.
How badly does you want it?
haha. love the humor clownfish
Ha ha ha ha, I get it...you used bad grammer, because the op did.
OP: Does grades matter? You: How badly does you want it?!
Tell her she is a retard and kick her in the vagina....shes wrong
troll?
tew minits thkish
from what i know, grades do matter hedge funds want to see your not flakey YOU DONT have to be Ivy league, it helps. Hedge funds DO want people with experience. What do you want to do in hedge funds? Trading, marketing, etc... Check out richard wilsons website and blog he gives some great pointers. Hell he said people who get their GED first can still get into hedge funds it really matters how much you want it... do you really want it? Do you have something to offer? otherwise, your just not going ot make it... period. Its very competitive but doable.
you need to show general interest like reading books about hedge funds reading blogs about em, when your at an interview the guy or girl interviewing you will know if your serious or not. You need to go to networking events any chance you get too.. NETWORKING is very important in this business if you want to excel. ANd dont lie, dont say you have passion if you really dont and dont say you know everything or can produce 50% returns forever, its not going to happen period. thats my 2 cents from what i learned online.... good luck
my grammer is messed up cuz im drunk DONT JUDGE ME LOL
I only read the headline... but I quote a post I read the other day "grades are the curreny of education" and the only people who say that grades do not matter don't have good grades!
Thnx everyone for your comments. I had to be sure that I was making the right decision.
Thnx.
Sorry whateverittakes but what do you mean by 'Dude, you can totally HAS CHEEZBURGER'?
i smell bacon
HOW IMPORTANT IS YOUR GPA? (Originally Posted: 09/20/2009)
I am a business undergrad at a semi-target school.
I got interviews with some of the BBs and MMs. I put my concentration GPA on my resume.. which is above 3.5. however, my overall is about a 3.3. how important is your gpa after you already get to the first round of interview?
after you land an interview, it's not really important.
Once you get through the screen process it shouldn't be a big deal, unless your cumulative GPA is under a 3.3 (as this is a common hurdle for applicants to care, otherwise they won't be considered) or under a 3.0 (as this would be a bit of red flag to those banks that don't have cutoffs). The interview is definitely your chance to shine and take the focus off of your GPA. So even if they ask you for your cumulative GPA just be comfortable with it - state it and move in. No need to dwell or make up excuses - a 3.3 is by no means terrible and if they truly cared that much they wouldn't have called you in for an interview in the first place since your cumulative GPA isn't going to be better than a 3.5, otherwise you would have put it down and not your major GPA. If you have a few more questions on GPAs, you can check out this article I just put out (as I've received and seen a lot of GPA questions lately - after all, 'tis the season).
http://www.bankonbanking.com/2009/09/20/rounding-your-gpa-and-other-gpa…
IBanker www.BankonBanking.com [email protected] Articles, News, Advice and More Break Into Investment Banking
Does GPA really matter that much? :( (Originally Posted: 12/13/2012)
Im in my last year as a Senior and have an offer at a BB.
Currently have a 3.5 GPA and looking at most top schools the GPA averages are high 3.5-low 3.6. My GPA may drop a bit my last two semesters (to a low 3.5 or even possibly high 3.4).
Should I be worried if my GPA is below the average? I know B-School is years away but just wondering
I'm wondering if a brand name financial services firm and good gmat score (hopefully) will work to my favor instead
i should slap you
Second that
So many nerds on this forum
You have an offer from a BB - why the fuck does this matter?
I hate my life.
Does GPA matter?
UMMMM....YEAH.
If you have an offer from a BB, shut your hole and celebrate.
drink bleach
wahhhh
If you are a senior and have an offer at a BB and this is what you waste your time worrying about then I feel really, really bad for you. Quit worrying about it and go have fun. You have six months left of college. If you're doing it right, you should forget you're even enrolled in classes until you get that email reminding you of the midterm in 3 days.
Tommy says don't worry about it
Slay some bitties while you still can
Congrats. Where is your undergrad from?
I think it's a fair question. Yeah, enjoy school, but you don't want to be slapping yourself in 4 years because you went out drinking the night before a midterm and now you're stressing about B-school apps.
-1
Its not a fair question, its a stupid question. 3.58 to 3.52 O NOES I won't get into a top 5 b-school! Oh please... I think there are more important things to worry about, like having an actual life as a senior in college.
3.58 wasn't good enough for T-5 anyways. I'll let OP sweat on that one for a while.
Huh? The mean GPA for T-5 schools is like a 3.5 or 3.6, so a 3.58 is better than half the people that get admitted. Both work experience and GMAT matter more than your UG GPA, and the better your UG university and the longer you've been working the more true this is.
If you are white/asian male, low GPA will put you in a disadvantage compared to others in same situation since rest will also have high GMAT (like 750 or more) and good work experience. Doesn't matter if you majored in engineering or whatever. Stay above the average, as high as possible.
Importance of GPA (Originally Posted: 04/25/2013)
I have a 4.0 gpa at a target, just wondering what the importance of gpa is. I'm a sophomore about to enter recruiting next year, just wondering how helpful it is.
It's certainly not going to hurt you, but it's definitely not the only thing they look at. Get an internship this summer, get some leadership positions on campus, and you'll be set.
Obviously...it helps a lot, but a high GPA only gets your foot in the door and it shows good work ethic. If you're competing at BBs or Elite Boutiques the talent will be equally as impressive. Once you sit down for the inteview your interviewers are no longer concerned about the grades you made as a freshman. It's never going to come down to "Well we liked Bob a lot, but David's GPA was higher by .1 points".
In terms of work experience, gpa, leadership, etc. what are the most important things bankers look for?
It obviously differs with bankers. From conversations I've had, they want to see that you are smart and hardworking, but that's basically more of a prerequisite rather than a factor. A 4.0 is nice, but if you don't have work experience or extracurricular activities, they'll think you're a hardworking zombie. Nobody wants to work with a hardworking zombie.
Just ask yourself: who would you rather sit and work 100 hours per week with - a 4.0 GPA awkward kid or a 3.7 GPA athletic kid with some leadership positions, an internship, and some other extracurriculars?
A 4.0 is impressive. But it's nowhere near enough.
I've heard both sides. People say grades aren't everything but after second rounds with a firm, the partner asked me to come into his office. He sat me down and said he and the other partners were concerned why my GPA is so low (3.4). I didn't get 3rd rounds. Clearly they still weigh it. Way to heavily in my opinion. Depends on the firm of course.
So study more?
Very important, it can affect you not only during interviews and recruiting, but even after that when it comes to group selection and even in getting technical/intensive projects early on (some groups might give the better assignments first to the wharton 3.9s vs. 3.5-3.6s until the latter prove themselves to be smart, hard-working, while the wharton student might have the benefit of the doubt right away)
Just to echo what's already been said, it gets your foot in the door. After that all up to you.
do you know how GPA affects MF PE recruiting? would a 3.7+ gpa hurt someone's chances?
3.7 should be fine for most megafunds, but it depends on the school, fund, and group you're in. Obviously a 3.7 from Harvard at GS will have an in at most megafunds, but an ASU 3.7 might have a much tougher time. School seems to matter more with preferences for Ivies as expected. Also, some funds are more strict on pedigree (eg, Berkshire) others are more lenient.
What else are you involved with on campus?
i'm a part of the investment fund on campus and i'm a member of a couple other finance related clubs. Worked for a boutique IB and going to intern at a decent sized fund this summer.
All else equal, you'll obviously be at the top of your game if you have a 4.0. They love that shit.
Related work experience quality and quantity or prestige of school? A 3.5+ GPA as a default. Which one weighs more?
Man I have a pretty low GPA (3.3) and it's hurting me every part of my job search process. :
GPA is essential but not the only component, obviously. I think most banks would take a 3.7 with ECs/relevant internships over a 4.0 with not much else. This isn't always the case, however. Some banks weigh GPA far more heavily than others (such as Lincoln International).
bump
Dude, you have a ton of insightful answers. You're not going to get much more than you already have. Having a 4.0 at a target is a great thing. It will not hurt you and I'm sure you will get a ton of interviews because of it. End of story.
GPA / Majors matters... (Originally Posted: 08/29/2007)
Hi,
I am a rising junior in a decent European university, I plan to apply for some major consulting/banking firms in the US for a summer internship.
In our school we get grades on a 0-20 scale, best students have usually 16, worst rarely less than 6. This is a major difference with your A, B, C.. I found on a website a conversion model to convert my grades into a GPA, I figured that would speak much more to a US recruiter, especially because the GPA i get is 3,75 (over 2 years).
However, I don't think there is anything official with that, and for sure my school will never provide me with any official transcript with a GPA on it.
Question, should I put it or not ? what would you do ?
2nd question : I am a finance major I heard that the finance major always get loads of technical questions during I banking interviews. Do you think Finance major is a real plus (cause I know I bank take people from various majors) and I should keep it, or it is such a disadvantage during interviews that it's not worth it ?
I 'll appreciate your insights !
I wonder what university you're from, and which classes you've taken in finance. Have you learned what duration/convexity refer to? As for the GPA, unless the application specifically asks for the US equivalent, I would keep the UK metric.
I remember going through the Goldman Sachs application a while back, they do ask for transcripts from candidates who represent particular geographies.
I am from a TOP 19 FT European university Business administration, Finance major, I learn also by my side I heard about those terms but frankly don't know really about. Thks for your input. Any other advices ?
Network with your alumni, learn what duration/convexity refer to. Understand why you want to be an investment banking professional.
Because you're a finance major:
+Do you know the three methods on how to value a firm?
+How an LBO model works?
Yes sir ! but it was not really the purpose of my post... thx tough
Question, should I put it or not ? what would you do ?
Answer: Put the UK GPA. If you're applying to London offices, they should know. Otherwise, put the (X/4.0) in parenthesis.
2nd question : I am a finance major.
Answer: Depends how strong your program is. I probably would keep it. Differentiate yourself through your leadership etc...
Does GPA matter for a call-back? (Originally Posted: 06/01/2011)
Hi guys,
I was wondering if GPA matters once you're in the firm. In that, I am a Sophomore (rising Junior now) interning at GSAM this summer. My GPA has dropped considerably: I had applied with a 3.8 and now it's 3.61. Will GPA matter if I want them to call me back next year? Or will it purely depend on my performance in the internship?
Let me know your thoughts.
Thank you all!
I don't think it would be an issue
its safe to say that as long as you do a great job there is no way they wouldn't want you back. they would NOT say "well, he proved he can do a great job, but his GPA dropped...lets bring in someone brand knew whom we don't know and try him out instead"
Agreed that I don't think it would matter, just kick ass at work and you'll be fine
Dont worry , you'll be fine. As long as you work hard this summer they will want you back. Dropping to a 3.61 from a 3.8 isnt the end of the world, you can bring it up next year either way. just ask yourself the same question, if you were the employer and your intern worked very well over the course of the internship, would dropping to a 3.61 from a 3.8 really change your opinion about him?
Thanks guys for your inputs. I'll try and work extra hard and make the best out of it. I was just feeling too guilty as if I have cheated GS by letting my GPA drop. Anyway, I'll make up for it. Sure thing.
don't worry dude, they've cheated plenty of people themselves!
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