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1/13/07

What is the specific dress codes for the various BBs?

Comments (218)

Best Response
1/16/07

Sure, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that... as long as you don't mind the made-in-Taiwan and mall-bought look. Not to mention fused construction on suit jackets that make the shoulder seams pucker after ten wearings. Nobody notices such tiny things, right? Right?

Brooks Brothers makes "traditional" suits like Crate and Barrel makes traditional home decor: at as low a cost as possible, with as little variation as possible, while remaining visually similar to luxury goods. These brands are designed for the demographic that marketers refer to as "aspirational". Same as Armani Exchange. You think Brooks Brothers is "traditional"because of the marketing campaign that drives the brand image. Because you can walk into any suburban office building in Witchita Falls or Louisville and say "I'm wearing Brooks Brothers" and get instant brand recognition across the upper lower to upper middle classes. (That's not a good thing.) The key to breaking free from the mall-rat aesthetic is to stop and think about distribution chains and the economics of luxury branding.

And I'm not saying this is the way it should be; I'm saying it's the way it is. My mom's electricity gets turned off every other month due to nonpayment, but many of the other analysts on this floor are the scions of millionaires and quasi-millionaires. I know one guy that's been wearing Pink since he was fifteen. There's another guy from Eastern Europe who grew up with next to nothing, but you'd better bet he lives in a crappy cheap apartment so that he can go out every weekend and buy more (and more and more and more) Burberry, Gucci, Pink, and whatever else guys are wearing these days.

Just calling it like it is. I don't like it, but I'm in no position to fight it from where I am at the moment.

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1/13/07

looking for the dress code (or the implied dress code) for specific banks...thanks

1/13/07

do different ibd desks have different dress codes or is it similar through-out

1/13/07

GS NY is all business casual like most places - UBS NY is the same but I find the people dress a bit more formally.

1/13/07

LEH is bus formal

1/13/07

At my bank it's business formal 4x a week and business casual on Fridays.

A lot of the banks started going back to formal a couple of years ago after the dot-com bust--supposedly in an effort to shed the image of the laid-back tech entrepreneur whose company lost everybody a lot of money.

At least, that's my explanation.

1/13/07

I like to walk in with nothing but fruit of the looms on.

1/13/07

BS is formal 4 days a week, casual fridays.

1/13/07

What's the weekend dress code like?

Come as you are?

Side note: I'm at home on a saturday night posting on here beacuse it's getting icy outside....haha

1/13/07
In reply to Bracketracer
1/13/07
Bracketracer:

What's the weekend dress code like?

I'm at the office right now, wearing jeans and a t-shirt.

In reply to TireKicker
1/14/07
TireKicker:
Bracketracer:

What's the weekend dress code like?

I'm at the office right now, wearing jeans and a t-shirt.

and flip-flops for me

1/14/07

yeah i mean i wouldn't wear anything offensive, but casual is fine.

1/16/07

trading floors are biz casual at most. some of the chicago ops used to wear jeans

1/16/07

Weekends are whatever -- I've seen sweatpants, hairy guys in their undershirts swilling beer, whatever. I wear jeans or slacks and a nice sweater, though... I'd hate for my VP to see me in a client meeting and think back to that weekend when I came in old sweatpants and a tank top or something.

Weekdays are b-cas, heavy on the b, light on the cas. Some people wear suits every day, women especially. No cleavage, no flats, no denim of any color. Some guys get away with not wearing ties, but most don't try it. Guys' shirts are often Pink (not pink) or Burberry, never Brooks Brothers (or if they are, nobody admits it). Shoes for guys are Gucci or Ferragamo; shoes for girls are Chanel, Louboutin, Choos, or Ferragamo.

Not having much money, you can imagine that I choose the Ferragamo. Heh.

1/16/07

What's the difference between Pink and pink?

1/16/07

Thomas Pink Vs Philip Michael Thomas Pink

Brand Vs color

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Either you sling crack rock or you got a wicked jump shot

In reply to Mis Ind
1/16/07

Looks like you work at a pretty conceited place.

1/16/07

Where on earth do you work that all of the analysts dress so well? Are you at a boutique ala Bstone?

There's a lot of brooks brothers among the analysts at BBs. It's awful looking and you can usually tell if a shirt is Brooks, but people still wear them. I mean, most analysts aren't exactly loaded, and a lot just don't know how to dress anyway. There were a bunch of guys in my summer class wearing pleated pants, slip-on unpolished loafers, ill-fitting brooks brothers shirts, and j crew ties.

Personally, though, I'd rather just own 5 thomas pink (or actually zegna and ralph lauren purple label are much better in my opinion) than 15 brooks brothers shirts if you're on a limited budget. Same goes for suits - if you're business casual, just buy a few very nice suits versus a bunch of cheap pieces of crap. No one will notice if you repeat clothing often...ties perhaps, but definitely not shirts.

I'd really like to get into your bank if the female analysts dress so well. A lot of the girls at my bank were wearing cheap heels and always always pants. Skirts should really be required..much more classy.

1/16/07

I can't imagine that brooks brothers is really looked down upon this much. I am as snobby as almsot anyone I know when it comes to clothes and I regularly stop by Brooks, and own many staples pieces of clothing from them.

Can you tell a brooks shirt from a RLPL? Of course. But, that doesn't mean that the BB shirt is terrible, it just means that the PL shirt is nicer.

Seriously, if all of you think that people making $100-150k a year should be wearing all Purple Label, you are severely mistaken.

Also, some people wear Brooks and JPress because they are fans of a more traditional way of dress than others. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

1/16/07

Branded shirts/suits are for tools.

If you really want to look good, just go see a tailor.

1/16/07

And I agree with the tailor comment, completely.

I think it is difficult to call brooks brothers "mall bought" and not call pink that as well. Both are mass produced.

Also, like it or not, Mis Ind, Brooks is a staple of old line, conservative, money, WASP male clothing. The ones that can afford to are wearing the Golden Fleece stuff and MTM, but it is Brooks nonetheless.

1/16/07

The old line is no longer in control of investment banks, and Brooks Brothers has cheapened its brand to widen its penetration across demographics.

And yes, bespoke is an excellent option, but while parents are usually happy to peel off an extra thousand bucks every now and then to buy Junior his new clothes, I've never known any parent willing to dress their kids head to toe in bespoke.

1/16/07

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In reply to Mis Ind
1/16/07
Mis Ind:

I'd hate for my VP to see me in a client meeting and think back to that weekend when I came in old sweatpants and a tank top or something.

Why? What kind of faggot do you work for?

1/16/07

Agree with the comment about bespoke. But while it's true you can get some bespoke clothes at relatively inexpensive prices, I'm always a bit skeptical about the quality of the fabric if the bespoke suit is not very very expensive. At least with good brands like armani, ralph lauren pl, etc., you know you're getting relatively good quality (and its cheaper than good quality bespoke). The same can't really be said for some random tailor in nyc or some internet tailor where you just enter your size measurements. Speaking of which, does anyone know where to find a list of the top tailors in nyc? I'd like to get exactly one well-made bespoke suit lol.

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1/16/07

Has anyone ever used this Astor and Black outfit? The prices seem almost too good to be true.

1/16/07

Zala, all I'm saying is that I want to present a neat, attractive image to my superiors at all times. Between guys it's okay because guys don't focus too much on each other, and because there's a certain bracing masculinity about being ugly, poorly-groomed, and generally a sloppy human being (I love boys, but you got to admit that some of y'all get kinda foul every now and then).

But I'm a girl, and I don't want my male VP to come into the office and see me with unmanicured toes in flip-flops, an ass clad in bulky sweatpants, and an old t-shirt with my favorite cartoon character on it. I may wear that stuff while cleaning house, but not at work. That doesn't make him gay, I don't think.

However, some girls dress like that on weekends. Ick.

1/16/07

our senior people are mostly, at least the ones who have taste, savile row and the like. i suspect that a couple have been getting some shirts from trips to india though.

the less senior people all dress formally, but with varying degrees of classiness.

i dress formally and conservatively, most of my work wardrobe is tailored or bespoke, but i haven't been at the analyst level for a while and probably took 18 months to assemble my collection. when i was an analyst i had one tailored suit, a couple of designer/brand name stuff that were adjusted slightly to fit perfectly. i also had a cheapo suit during my first few months (also adjusted by a good tailor), but i got rid of that as soon as my cash flow permitted. Shirts have always been Pink and the like, even during formal/semi formal events at univeristy. i think of it as capex and budget accordingly. my casual wear tends to less expensive.

to analysts on a budget my advice is to dress conservatively and it probably pays to get your suits adjusted by a good tailor. better fitting cloths make a significant difference to your appearance.

1/16/07

You wear Pink shirts to formal or semi-formal events? You should be wearing Tails and White tie to Formal events and black tie w/ a dinner jacket, or a cutaway (if before 6:00 pm), to semi-formal events.

1/16/07

i didn't mean that formal. lol. i meant like if i was meeting with some of my fathers friends for drinks or at their offices.

good point on the semantics though.

1/16/07

Ronald, don't be snarky. Yes, the words "formal" and "semi-formal" are constantly misused, particularly in the US, but almost nobody reads Emily Post anymore. I do, but that's me. We can't expect every single banker in his/her twenties and thirties to behave as if they were raised by old-money families.

On the other hand, I believe your comments are slightly imprecise. There is more than one level of "formal" in both the US and in Britain. In the US, one encompasses white tie, one encompasses black tie, and of course in Britain there are strata of society in which orders are worn at times, in which case they'll be called for on the lower right hand side of the engraved invitation. You may wear black tie at a semi-formal event, or (as you correctly note) a cutaway, but in most US cities it is perfectly acceptable to wear business formal to semi-formal events, particularly before 8:00, particularly if you're a banker.

So let's not be snarky, or you're gonna get snarked. There's no reason for your average banker or banking candidate to know this stuff. Cool?

1/16/07

i think that now would be a good time to point out that one shouldn't wear a black suit to work. it looks too formal, i.e. in the formal event sense of the word.

stick with dark grey, dark blue , both with or without pinstripes. conservative.

1/16/07

how much money do you guys say is reasonable for an analyst to spent to equip themselves adequately? What does one need to get to do the job?

I personally don't give a shit what i wear as long as it is comfortable, so how much should someone like me blow and how much of what?

As a college athlete, I have always tooled around in gym pants and the such...probably since middle school ...bad habit i guess. I know it this will not continue professionally, but don't personally see a need for custom shirts and underwear. Some of you dudes must blow a hell of a lot of money on clothing. I respect that, but that is just not my thing.

Thanks

1/16/07

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In reply to Ronald R
1/16/07
Ronald R:

I can't imagine that brooks brothers is really looked down upon this much. I am as snobby as almsot anyone I know when it comes to clothes and I regularly stop by Brooks, and own many staples pieces of clothing from them.

Can you tell a brooks shirt from a RLPL? Of course. But, that doesn't mean that the BB shirt is terrible, it just means that the PL shirt is nicer.

Seriously, if all of you think that people making $100-150k a year should be wearing all Purple Label, you are severely mistaken.

Also, some people wear Brooks and JPress because they are fans of a more traditional way of dress than others. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Yeah, people are a little too harsh about not wearing Brooks Brothers. For a fucking analyst, Brooks Brothers is FINE.

But if I had to disagree with anything you wrote, I'd have to point out that Brooks =/= J Press.

1/16/07

So-cal, get yourself one truly excellent suit, two white shirts, two solid shirts of conservative color, and two white shirts with stripes (if you like them). Six very good ties, four pairs of nice pants, two pairs of shoes (one with laces, one with the metal bit). Either keep all your leather goods (shoes, belt, watch, and manbag/softside briefcase if you use one) brown, or keep them black. If you like both, make sure you have a full set of both, and never mix the two. Ditto gold and silver fittings on watch, shoes, belt, etc. Ditto shiny/matte finishes on your leather. As you don't want to spend a lot of money, I'd advise matte black leather goods with silver/steel fittings. They look good with everything, even when they get a little scuffed, and don't need constant shining.

You can skimp on everything but the ties, one of the white shirts, and the suit. Let these guys tell you what brand; they probably know better than I do.

1/16/07

can't i just go to macy's and get some calvin kline shirts?

1/16/07
1/16/07
In reply to Mis Ind
1/16/07
Mis Ind:

...So let's not be snarky, or you're gonna get snarked. There's no reason for your average banker or banking candidate to know this stuff. Cool?

thanks for the response. i think that ronald was just trying to make a point. also, i'd like to point out that i am not average in any sense of the word.

that is all.

1/16/07

You guys are insane. I'm doing what so-cal is doing and going to macy's during their clearance sale. You cannot tell me that anyone is going to care if an analyst is wearing a $200 shirt or a $50 one. Maybe I'll stop by goodwill first to see if they have anything in my size.

1/16/07

so-cal, get one light blue shirt as well. it goes with almost anything.

1/16/07

thanks for the break-down.

1/16/07

Well if your going in as a summer analyst who cares what you wear, your an intern. Just wear something respectable and dry cleaned. Only worry about spending the bucks if your going FT.

1/16/07

Mis Ind gave perfect advice on what to get. I would go for seven shirts though and no more than one with stripes. Three white, two light blue, one stiped/white and one pink or dark blue. And get them cleaned somewhere that charges more than $1 a shirt. You'll thank yourself in a year.

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1/16/07

You don't need to spend $200 a shirt. You need to spend about $85 to $150 at the maximum. If you find a good sale, you will be able to get something for $85 that is decent. Of course, as soon as I left the sellside I immediately threw away my $85 on sale shirt away.

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1/16/07

are superiors really concerned that their analysts are wearing expensive clothing? I know one must look professional, have clean ironed shit, polished shoes, but u can get quality, good looking clothing at department stores. I have been going to h/p/y for 2.5 years (mostly oblivious i guess) but i dont even recongize a number of these brand you are talking of. If it was necessary to get these marked-up items, then i guess it is necessary, but is it? It is not like macy's and bloomingdales sells potato sacks with arm and leg holes.

In reply to buysideanalyst
1/16/07
buysideanalyst:

You don't need to spend $200 a shirt. You need to spend about $85 to $150 at the maximum.

Dude. You do not "NEED" to spend $85 dollars on a dress shirt as a 1st year analyst. That is dumb. If you want, I will find you plenty of dress shirts that will work fine right now online.

In reply to zala rules
1/16/07
1/16/07

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1/16/07

buyside, you are insane. this is a 1st year analyst. if you spend $70 on a belt and $120 on SOCKS as an analyst, you are an insecure nerd.

1/16/07

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1/16/07

Okay, this is a common male perspective on clothes. But he seems curious about the differences, so let's talk about it. I'll just talk about shirts; suits are too complex for me to get into.

So. Cheap shirts look cheap for two reasons:
-- Cheap fabric
-- Cheap construction

Fabric: The shoulder portion is normally doubled up until the yoke, and the fabric must be of a high enough thread count so that there isn't a serious visible difference between the two-layer part of the shirt and the one-layer. There should be a slight blouson above the cuffs, and the fabric should be of sufficient quality and weight to not dimple or crepe up in the tucks of the blouson.

Construction: The yoke construction of a shirt is actually kind of complex and requires lots of attention by the person stitching it, which isn't given if the person works in a cheap sweatshop. If there's a pattern, the pattern must pair up exactly across cuts (which usually creates an attractive chevron if well done). Additionally, there should be no puckering or pulling of the fabric across the seam, which is caused by improper thread tension on poorly-maintained sewing machines, inattention on the part of the machine operator, and low-quality poly-blend thread that shrinks at a different rate than the shirt fabric. Finally, there should be a box pleat in the rear center of the yoke, and there isn't always one on cheap shirts. If there is, it's sometimes too short (to skimp on fabric), off-center, or not sharp enough, because doing it right takes time. In the blouson of the sleeve, there should be multiple small tucks, not one large one.

So yeah, in short: people can and will be able to tell. Sure, you can get a cheap shirt that's well-made, but you'd better have an eagle eye for quality. Most people don't.

In reply to zala rules
1/16/07
zala rules:

buyside, you are insane. this is a 1st year analyst. if you spend $70 on a belt and $120 on SOCKS as an analyst, you are an insecure nerd.

It's hard to get socks for less than $10 or $12 each that don't fall apart in a year. I buy socks for roughly $12 at Bannana Republic, not exactly high street. Maybe you don't need 10 pairs, but at least seven.

Nice dress socks are $25 to $35 per pair.

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In reply to buysideanalyst
1/16/07
buysideanalyst:

Nice dress socks are $25 to $35 per pair.

I know, but those are for people with money. As an analyst, if you end up with a couple holes in the heels of your socks, you'll probably be ok, because you're also living in a tiny closet of an apartment and borrowing money from mom and dad.

Also, you do NOT need a new "wallet and watch" etc. That stuff is for nouveau riche asians. If you're worried about people inspecting your watch, get a cheap leather-band watch from wal-mart, or else don't wear one. Your cell phone will tell you what time it is.

1/16/07

DO NOT skimp on the shoes. Cheap shoes are by far the worse.

1/16/07

You'll notice I didn't include wallet and watch money in my build-ups. And what I meant by watch is less than $100.

I'm not advocating that anyone buy $25 pairs of socks. I'm just giving a frame of reference.

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1/16/07

When I was getting banker clothes for my fiance, I was doing it seriously on the cheap (he didn't work in New York and his coworkers were far more clueless). Here's what I got for him. Bear in mind that this far undercuts a real NYC banker wardrobe.

2 suits, one dark charcoal, one light charcoal with conservative pinstripes. Each one cost around $500, and tailoring cost an extra $200 each because he's 5'5" with broad shoulders and a narrow waist and we wanted to emphasize that line (when you're 5'5", you definitely want to play up your best features).

Belt was $50, rock bottom price, good top-grain matte black leather with brushed steel fittings.

Shoes were $160, not fashionable but not awful.

Four shirts: one pale pewter (edgy because he worked at an edgy place), two white, one pale blue. Each $80, except for one of the whites which was $95.

Four ties, (red, two blue blue, one edgy silver-patterned), around $40 apiece on sale, but still silk and good-looking.

Two extra pairs of suit pants, one to match each suit ($180 apiece).

Ten pairs of socks (yes, you need socks or you will look very Howard Hughes with bare feet in your shoes) at $6 apiece. Yes, they were cheap, and yes they all fell apart within six months, leaving little black fuzzballs all over the laundry which I ended up picking out myself. I wish I'd bought the $12 socks.

One softside briefcase, cheap, not really good looking, $150.

Five undershirts, $15 apiece. Undershirts keep you fresher and help protect your shirt and suit from your body oils.

He's still wearing his boxers from high school, so we were good to go on those.

That's $2710 for a wardrobe that absolutely wouldn't pass muster in New York. Crappy briefcase, cheap fused-construction suits, shoes made from poor leather, etc. This is just a guideline to help you guys make your decisions.

1/16/07

is there some store a guy can go to to get all this stuff at one place (in NYC)?

1/16/07

A friend at a BB that is an acting VP (officially an Assoc.) in Japan has easily spent $40,000 on his clothes in about 3 years. Started as a 2nd year analyst in the U.S. Had no prior knowledge of Japanese.

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1/16/07

Heh, wouldn't that be great? You just walk up, write them a check, and get your banker kit. I wish it were that easy, trust me.

No, unfortunately it is a significant time and money sink. Your tastes and your wallet as well as your self-esteem will be challenged and perhaps overwhelmed. You'll have to work hard in order to not get screwed. You may not emerge the same person. You may even find yourself wanting to just throw it all away and work the frying vat at McD's.

And this is just for the guys. Imagine what it must be like for the girls who don't have strict cookie cutters to follow. It's enough to make you want to wear a burqa.

1/16/07

You do not need to spend that type of money on clothing.

I get by with 2 nice ($85) shirts and 1 nice suit. Every other shirt I wear is around $35 bucks.

I do agree with these other guys on shoes. Don't skimp out on shoes--that would be a huge mistake. Save your money on shirts and get a nice shoe (I would say minimum $150).

Nobody in the office really cares what you wear on a day-to-day basis. Just make sure you have something appropriate (read: nicer) for your client meetings.
I wouldn't spend all that money on expensive clothing--cause no one really cares.

In reply to Mis Ind
1/16/07
Mis Ind:

Heh, wouldn't that be great? You just walk up, write them a check, and get your banker kit. I wish it were that easy, trust me.

No, unfortunately it is a significant time and money sink. Your tastes and your wallet as well as your self-esteem will be challenged and perhaps overwhelmed. You'll have to work hard in order to not get screwed. You may not emerge the same person. You may even find yourself wanting to just throw it all away and work the frying vat at McD's.

Whoa nelly. It is not THAT hard. We are talking about a 1st year analyst here. First year analysts wear pretty normal clothes, even at Morgan Stanley.

1/16/07

I didn't know you worked at MS, Zala. And yes, if you've never bought a working wardrobe for yourself, it can be fraught with a whole bunch of difficulties. It's a moment of self-definition which many people aren't ready for.

1/16/07

Listen. There are a million different ways to get good quality clothing on the cheap.

Before I begin, let me just say Armani, Gucci etc are really not that great of quality. They are a step up from the stuff you may buy at macy's but in terms of price they are about 400% over priced.

I first suggest going to the barney's outlet or the off saks fith avenue outlet. There is one outside of nyc and there is one 20min from boston. These places have a great selection of ridiculously marked down clothing. I was in saks outlet two weeks ago, picked up a Dunhill suit, beautiful grey suit, three button, flat front modern suit. Very very nice. I had seen it in their store for $1500, it was priced at Saks outlet for $450 because it was "last season" (which is last spring for winter 2006/7). There are great deals to be found at those outlet stores.

Also ties/belts: go to the barneyaEU(tm)s outlet. Great prices on stuff they just moved off the shelves of their main retail stores.

In addition, there are numerous services that come to many major cities from India, Bangladesh and China that will measure ppl up and make them really great quality shirts/suits. Some times you can get material straight from the same mills as Canali, RLPL and Scabal (this is the good stuff folks, not fucking armani cheap ass shit). Just to give you the FYI, you know how Daniel Craig was so well dressed in the recent bond movie? He was fully outfitted in cashmere suits from Scabal. Find a service that will measure you, make the stuff to your specifications, and ask them about their operation.

As for shoes:

I am a firm believer in great shoes. That is why I will never buy Gucci, Prada or Ferragamo shoes. They are truely shit, and to be honest everyone is wearing them (they are trust me, just look around nyc). Find something unique and made to last. A great place to start looking for good shoes are the, great and little known out of Europe, Italian shoe makers. There is just no substitution for great Italian shoes. Forget your Prada, Johnson and Murphy crap, look into these shoes. Some brands that are good to know: Martegani, Harris, Borgioli, Gravati, Pertini. Check them out. They are fashionable, made to last and really stand out from the crowd. DonaEU(tm)t be a follower, donaEU(tm)t buy Gucci or Prada. Great website: http://www.francos.com .

All these things can be had for great prices. I wouldnaEU(tm)t spend more than $90 on a shirt (and we are talking about a well made, well constructed, Italian cotton shirts aEU" you just need to know where to look to find them), no more than $175 on a pair of pants (we are talking RLPL quality and around there, IaEU(tm)d spent about $300 for scabal, itaEU(tm)s the best), socks? Pick up some cheap ones at macyaEU(tm)s (socks end up wearing away, becoming nasty after a year anyway! Spending $25 on socks is the same as spending $70 on a pair of boxers, you do it if you have the money), as for shoes, well I would spend a little more $300-450. Chances are you will have only two pairs (dark brown and black), you wear them every other day (assuming rotating your shoes aEU" which you should to keep the leather from cracking/becoming misshapen) and you will be running around the office/standing/running to presentations or the printer all the time. I really feel you shouldnaEU(tm)t skimp on shoes. I skimped last summer, bought some POS from Florsheim and ended up paying the price (i.e. blisters, cramped feet, no arch support and they ended up falling apart from the constant use - heel came right off). Buy a truly great pair of shoes and with proper care they will last 7-10 years if you want.

Anyway, that is my two cents. IaEU(tm)ll leave you with what my MD said to me on my last day during the summer. DonaEU(tm)t be one of those analyst that spend $200 on a shirt, itaEU(tm)s not worth it right now. Save your money for your MBA.

1/16/07

do you have a preference on buttoned cuffs or double cuff? would i look absolutely ridiculous wearing cuff links around the office?

1/16/07

Mis Ind,
The fact that you knew what I was talking about in my last post in regards to formal/semi-formal was a breath of fresh air. You are really something else.
Also, I understand that Brooks is not an equal of JPress. JPress is one of my favorite stores in the world, and I think any analyst would be fine with shirts and ties from them. I also think you can find great deals on shirts online. Check out T.M. Lewin, they are always running specials.
Finally, what is everyone's opinion about Classic Gucci horsebit loafers?

1/16/07

I'm surprised there hasn't been many posts from frat guys here.

Gucci, Armani, Ferragamo, or any other guido designer is the anti-thesis of fratty.

Stick to J.Press and higher end Brooks Brothers like Ronald R was saying and you will not go wrong among the fratty circles. Let the nouveau riche do what they will. Wear what you and your ancestors have been wearing for generations.

1/16/07

I agree with you completely, Patek. However, a pair of classic Gucci horse bit loafers are definitely part of the fratty wardrobe. They can keep the rest of the guido stuff, though.

1/16/07

italian cars are acceptable. anything else italian - stay away.

1/16/07

what's so bad about italian shirts? other than the fact that many of them have the designer name or logo drawn over the entire shirt? That would be the next big thing. :)

1/16/07

Here are some clothes I feel are a decent value for the quality. Others may disagree.

Shirts: Hugo Boss (narrow through the body), Charles Tyrwhitt (wide body).

Shoes: Johnston and Murphy

Not saying these are the best quality available, but these shops have decent stuff for the money.

In reply to Rickets
1/16/07
Rickets:

Here are some clothes I feel are a decent value for the quality. Others may disagree.

Shirts: Hugo Boss (narrow through the body), Charles Tyrwhitt (wide body).

Shoes: Johnston and Murphy

Not saying these are the best quality available, but these shops have decent stuff for the money.

hugo boss? maybe in another life when my name is anthony guidoini and i own 5 pizzerias.

stick to j.press and brooks, seriously. as for shoes, you can't go wrong with allen-edmonds for mass market, and if you can afford it, go for churches or something custom made from london.

english clothing = fratty. italian designer wear = not at all.

1/16/07

For shoes I would recommend getting a pair of Bally's. They look sharp and their really comfortable to walk around in. You could get a pair for $300 which I don't think it is unreasonable considering im still wearing my pair after two years and they still look nice. So the durability and quality is excellent.

Also about the socks you can get a $6 pair that will last for 6 months or a $12 that will last a year. All the same in the end.

1/16/07

This is such a fucking joke. I have a 50 chest and a 34 wast so off the rack doesn't fit. For suits go go bespoke, shirts rank as follows,
1. Turnbull and Asser
2. Hilditch and Key, New and Lingwood, Harvie and Hudson, Dege and Skinner, or any Jermyn St. maker
4. Charvet, Brioni
5. Burberry, RLPL
and shoes go,
1. John Lobb
2. Edward Green
3. Crockett and Jones, Church's
4. Ferragamo

1/16/07

Jaygatsby28, do you know of any good shoe stores in NYC that carry Italian shoes which you recommend?

In reply to Jaygatsby28
1/17/07
Jaygatsby28:

IaEU(tm)ll leave you with what my MD said to me on my last day during the summer. DonaEU(tm)t be one of those analyst that spend $200 on a shirt, itaEU(tm)s not worth it right now. Save your money for your MBA.

This is gold.

That must have been a proper old school MD. Every analyst should read that quote and think about how it relates to the next 2-3 years (not just about clothes but the rest of their lifestyle as well).

1/17/07

i think for the most part people are showing off in this thread, trying to show that they know the names of various high-end designers. obviously none of it is necessary. as long as you look professional, nothing else matters. remember that you are actually going to have to do work- you're not a model. so put more emphasis on that than what designer you're wearing. most of the carpets in investment banks are not red.

1/17/07

these clothes are, however, luxury items that many of your colleagues will splurge on. it's like a hobby, some people follow basketball some people nitpick about designers.

In reply to jonnybravo22
1/17/07
jonnybravo22:

i think for the most part people are showing off in this thread, trying to show that they know the names of various high-end designers. obviously none of it is necessary. as long as you look professional, nothing else matters. remember that you are actually going to have to do work- you're not a model. so put more emphasis on that than what designer you're wearing. most of the carpets in investment banks are not red.

Exactly. Which is why I will say again that a JPress, Brooks, and Ralph Lauren wardrobe will be more than sufficient for an analyst trying to look professional. And, in many cases, the analyst dressed in conservative clothes from the designers I just mentioned will look much more professional than the analyst standing next to him in the guido gear.

1/17/07

conservative is key. you don't want to end up looking like a chav on the pull.

1/17/07

Have to admit, I just don't have the expertise with men's clothes. I've seen some Brooks Brothers stuff that looks like absolute crap, but Ronald, you seem to have extensive experience with the brand. Since there are multiple lines with different sources sold at Brooks Brothers, perhaps the best rule is to cultivate an eye for high-quality construction and let your taste be your guide. And they do have conservative looks; I will grant you that.

I do have a personal beef with Brooks Brothers, though. Before I worked in New York, I went in to a BB store to buy a suit and have some tailoring done. Found an acceptable suit (for non-NYC), no problem. Then I explain the tailoring issue. I get every suit I wear extensively tailored because all my suits should nip deeply in at the waist, 1940's-style, and flare at the hip. It takes two rows of darts that have to be done separately to the jacket and to the lining and usually costs at least $200 a jacket for that alone. And the guy refuses to do it for any price. He says, "We can take it in by two inches. That's all we do here." I explain that their off-the-rack women's suits don't have much built-in shape, that their job is to tailor women's suits for women's figures, and that my figure needs a more pronounced hourglass look or the whole damn thing just hangs like a potato sack. He says, and I quote, "That's not my problem."

I've since found that other women have had similar experiences, as BB seems to be aimed far more towards men than towards women. They just don't seem to care about taking care of female customers.

So I tend to dislike Brooks Brothers no matter what.

In reply to Mis Ind
1/17/07
Mis Ind:

Have to admit, I just don't have the expertise with men's clothes. I've seen some Brooks Brothers stuff that looks like absolute crap, but Ronald, you seem to have extensive experience with the brand. Since there are multiple lines with different sources sold at Brooks Brothers, perhaps the best rule is to cultivate an eye for high-quality construction and let your taste be your guide. And they do have conservative looks; I will grant you that.

I do have a personal beef with Brooks Brothers, though. Before I worked in New York, I went in to a BB store to buy a suit and have some tailoring done. Found an acceptable suit (for non-NYC), no problem. Then I explain the tailoring issue. I get every suit I wear extensively tailored because all my suits should nip deeply in at the waist, 1940's-style, and flare at the hip. It takes two rows of darts that have to be done separately to the jacket and to the lining and usually costs at least $200 a jacket for that alone. And the guy refuses to do it for any price. He says, "We can take it in by two inches. That's all we do here." I explain that their off-the-rack women's suits don't have much built-in shape, that their job is to tailor women's suits for women's figures, and that my figure needs a more pronounced hourglass look or the whole damn thing just hangs like a potato sack. He says, and I quote, "That's not my problem."

I've since found that other women have had similar experiences, as BB seems to be aimed far more towards men than towards women. They just don't seem to care about taking care of female customers.

So I tend to dislike Brooks Brothers no matter what.

They are a traditional gentleman's clothier. Why you would be shopping there, I don't know. I don't know any women in my circles that shop at Brooks.

1/17/07

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Account Inactive

1/17/07

do people care so much about what shirts and shoes to wear. I've met plenty of Associates all way up to MDs in San Fran/Palo Alto and Chicago. None of them could care less about what you wear as long as it's decent. Heck, some of the most seniorMD's I met were wearing sweaters and casual pair of slacks in the office on a Friday. It's different when you're meeting a client, but in the office, who cares. Brooks Brothers and hell Banana Republic will suffice.

In reply to Mis Ind
1/17/07

Mis Ind, I understand where your frustrations come from now. If I were you, I would stay away from Brooks anyway. As a woman, you are afforded much more leeway in your clothing than I believe men should have. Take advantage of it.

1/17/07

Some do. SF is pretty laid back. If dress code is business casual, then you really have no worries and it is at most places in SF. Just make sure what you wear is reasonably pressed. If you are an MD you can come in however you want as long as you produce revenue.

As an analyst in a business formal environment, you won't ever have a problem wearing $400-500 suits and $65 shirts. Some people say you can wear a $200 suit and and $35 shirt. This may be true in some places, but my view is that it's worth the extra expense to look more presentable.

Personally, I'm glad I get to wear jeans and t-shirt to work. If I had to wear suits, I wouldn't be happy about having to fork over all that cash either. But that's the business and it's part of the reason a first year associate at an ibank makes close to 2x what I do outside of the fact he works 2x as many hours.

I wouldn't ever tell anyone to go buy $1,500 suits and $250 shirts. If that's your thing, go for it, but it's not neccessary. At the same time I can't honestly tell anyone that no one will notice that they wear $35 shirts. Especially, if like some people I know, they launder those shirts once every three times they wear them. You'll never be called out for it, but it will be noticed. There is a happy medium. Using the example of shirts, unless you find a steal, which happens from time to time, you should pay somewhere between $65 and $85.

Anyway this horse is dead.

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Account Inactive

1/17/07

Buyside, kind of like that, but the girls in that image are flat-chested and have narrow shoulders. There's not a huge hip-waist ratio there, so that pattern still has only one row of darts, which you can see bisecting the pockets.

These lines are probably closer to what I'm talking about:
http://www.fashion-era.com/images/1940s_mid/1946ta...

Clearly, mine don't look exactly like that; the lapels are wrong and the shoulders are a hair too broad; plus, no woman is shaped like a fashion drawing. But you can see how these accomodate shoulders, breasts, and hips while still nipping in dramatically at the waist. I measure 36-24-37, while a far more normal modern measurement would be 35-27-37, and most women's suits made for that body would actually measure 36-30-37 because there's way too much waist room in today's clothes. Brooks Brothers has an even looser fit, so I'd estimate that the actual inside measurements of that suit I tried on were 36-32-37, which is completely unacceptable... just imagine how those extra eight inches of torso fabric hang off the bosom and shoulders like a big sack. And that's how they expect women shaped like me to dress at work? I don't think so.

1/17/07

is a watch a necessary part of the wardrobe or can one get away without it? what kind of watches are appropriate?

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