EDHEC or Warwick

I was gonna go to EDHEC MSc in Finance, and I already paid €5000 to secure the position, but I recently received an admission from Warwick Master in Finance.

I know Warwick is a good school, but EDHEC has some advantages too (learning French, international, etc...)

Should I give up the €5000 (I might be able to get it back), and go to WBS, or is it not that worthwhile?

If almost everyone supports Warwick, I don't mind giving up the money. I'm an international student, but I want to work somewhere in Europe (including UK), but I'm not sure where.

 

if you are an international student, my advice in general will be to go to warwick if you can get that damn money back. despite what the UK is like these days.

non EU passport holder, non-french-speaker, non-insead/hec/etc. student => tough time! warwick carries some credibility in asia (is that where you're from?), and still allows you some kind of a shot at recruiting in the english-speaking western world! a friend of mine is a msc finance graduate from warwick and had pretty terrible stats before this degree, but managed to get a FT barcap role in london because he worked on a 6-month research project with a professor. my point being that if you are motivated, and the stars are at least somewhat aligned in your favor haha, you should be OK graduating from warwick. i can't say the same for edhec...

it kinda depends on how much money you have AND whether that deposit is somehow refundable. yeah, i lean toward warwick - but hey my opinion is NOT worth too much!

 

I don't know much about EDHEC, but Warwick has a very good reputation in the City. However, EDHEC has the advantage of offering you the possibility of learning a new language as well as getting a more international education. This may be seen as a plus if you're applying to positions both in the UK and abroad.

 

I can tell you one thing. EDHEC has a program where it sends about a trillion students to LSE for their final year. You should look into it. I'm not even exaggerating when I say about 20% of LSE's Diploma Accounting/Finance, Masters Accounting and Finance students are part of the EDHEC exchange program, and they get an LSE degree too.

 

yeah but they have to pay for it, it s not like a dual degree where you get both for the price of one. It's partnership between LSE and EDHEC and they can join the Diploma (but not the Msc I think, those who are in the Msc probably applied by themselves)

BTW, I can tell you more about EDHEC since I sat for the entrance exam two years ago. It is considered the 5th Grande Ecole in Business in France after HEC, ESSEC, ESCP and EM LYON. BUT, in France, only the top 3 plus EmL (often) are considered targets for FO jobs in banks other than French ones. There is quite a gap between EML and EDHEC. Indeed, in France, even better than HEC, you have the top engeering schools such Polytechniques, Mines de Paris, Centrale Paris, etc and they trust most of the FO jobs along with the top 3 business schools, so there are only second roles for others schools such as EDHEC, or mine which is in the top 10 as well. However, EDHEC is a good school and the one I wanted since I know the top 4 was out of reach after two years of classe préparatoires (maybe I should have done a third year but no remorse). Its academic researsh is famous in Europe especially when it comes to risk management etc. (Their most competitive Msc in Finance is this one with risk in it). If you decide to go to EDHEC, you will be in Nice, in the Cote d'Azur which is quite an amazing places, full of tourists, next the the sea / mountains / Italy / Switzerland

 

Thanks for your advise. One more thing I want you to take into consideration is that I already have one year experience in a bulge bracket investment bank, and I had a FO job there. When people talk about reputations of schools, I don't really care because it's all matter of probabilities. (ex. Oxford people are more likely to get called for interviews than some unknown schools.) I graduated from a crappy 2nd or 3rd tier U.S. school and still got a FO job in a major investment bank.

So does this affect my choice? Cost and campus wise, Nice is much better place, and both are CFA partners so course contents are not so different. Then what other factors should I look at?

 

Easy decision here: go to Warwick. If you were talking about HEC Paris, Bocconi or SSE I would understand those doubts about whether a new language and a more international experience is worth the move. However, EDHEC is not anywhere near the level of Warwick, and even if you don't care about reputation right now, it may come back to haunt. Don't make it hard for yourself.

 

5,000 euros is a lot to lose, but I would still head to Warwick. For what it's worth, I came across a site called BusinessBecause.com, a news and networking site for MBA. I was doing some reseach in why MBA at Warwick Business School when it cropped up. Since it's also a social netowrking site I got in contact with some of the students from the school who helped me with my selection http://www.businessbecause.com/warwick-business-school.htm

 

The only thing I can tell you and that I know is that in France, there is a real gap between Edhec and the 3 Bschools from Paris (named the "Parisiennes" - HEC, ESSEC, ESCP Europe) In this respect, HEC,...> Edhec

 

What I'm confused is that Isn't Edhec supposed to be the best for finance in france? Of course HEC is much better as a business school, but I picked Edhec for it's strength in finance. Also, are you guys talking from employers perspective? Because students opinions and employers opinions are often different (I've worked for two BB banks), I would like to know how you guys know what's better and that kinda stuff.(if HR from a company told me to go to Warwick, convincing) Is school name that important? If that's the case, Goldman should be entirely comprised of Harvard students but in reality no. Btw after working for BB banks, I don't care about the name and size of the company I will work for next either. I just wanna work in finance. Does the name matter still? If it does, I should probably go to Warwick.

 

I agree with Scratchy! EDHEC is very good business school, but their reputation is a bit overrated in Finance for the mere fact that they have a huge advertising budget! In addition, only two people can go to the LSE and I'm pretty sure they must be students of the "Grande Ecole" programme...

ps : If you need more information about EDHEC, do not hesitate to PM!

 

Look, I can tell you that in France, only the league table matters not the supposed strengh in Finance. Edhec is strong, true, especially in risk management etc but HEC ESSEC ESCP >> EDHEC when it comes to recruitments in France in corporate finance (m&a) or in strategic consulting. I don't know if Edhec & Warwick are peers but in the French Grande Ecole system, EDhec is 5th BS and comes after the engineering schools such as Polytechniques, Mines de Paris, Centrales, Supelec, ENSTA and the top 4 BS. So let's say 10 schools above (if we exclude science po Paris and some Msc in Financial Engeering at Dauphine University in Paris)

 

Foreign students tend to forget that in France engineering schools >> business schools, that's a cultural fact. Indeed, the top 10 engineering schools are generalist, I mean that you can specialize in turbo mechanical stuffs or whatever, but also in quantitative finance and corporate finance and since they are considered the elite, they are better employed than BS students. For strategic consulting, they are considered as smart people even if they know nothing about business / strategy / marketing, being smart is enough and they will learn from scratch during their first year as an analyst.

 

I guess this will be my last question. I will most likely to go back to my home country after school because I think it's very hard to get a job either in uk or Europe since Im from outside of Europe. And both Edhec and Warwick are unknown in my country so as far as job hunting is concerned, I don't think it makes any difference. Should I still give up the money and go to Warwick? Thanks.

 

I'm in a similar position as you and chose to go to a University that is relatively unknown in my home country. Yet, it's still an education and most good employers will recognise it. I would go for the University you feel most comfortable attending.

 
Best Response

OK...

First of all, I don't really know much about Warwick. What you have to know about EDHEC is that for French Business Schools, the French candidates must go through intensive exams after 2 years of preparation. I'm not talking about a GMAT you took after 2 weeks of casual study plus a nice cover letter (which tend to result in a more random process in BS acceptance). 2 years of intensive study in order to get this exam. Therefore the people at the 2nd BS are all people who failed at the 1st. Those at the 3rd failed at the 2nd, etc. That's why they put so much importance in your school's ranking in France. And this suffices to explain the difference in candidates. To the extreme point that the HR at top French banks basically sort the CVs according to school and start interviewing top-3 BS students before even thinking of considering the following ones. This system is very elistist, like it or not. It has the same advantages and flaws as any highly elitist system.

Now the school reputation hasn't much relevance for you apparently. If you're only considering seeking for employment in your country rather than Europe, you should try to ask what is preferred there. Try to know if they tend to prefer English education or international diversification. If you look at Financial Times rankings (http://rankings.ft.com/businessschoolrankings/european-business-school-…), Warwick appears in a slightly better position than EDHEC, but at this level it doesn't make much difference.

I can read a lot of debate here about EDHEC vs. better French BS or French BS vs. French ES. In your case it isn't very relevant. Since you have no access to a better French BS then I would buy the argument of "top (advertised) Finance program" at EDHEC. Provided you can learn French (which is not an easy language) fast enough to get the maximum out of their Finance track, I suppose it could be a good learning program. It is really on this point that I would make my choice: can you learn French fast enough? This very point is what will make all the difference. Of course I suppose you already have a very good mastery of English if it's not your mother tongue, otherwise Warwick seems to be an obvious choice.

Now that I have answered your concerns, let me enjoy the above debates. xD Don't be influenced by the following paragraph. EDHEC vs. better French BS: to further reinforce my point about French elitism, just look at the massive spread in their FT rankings. It has a reason to it. OK, their rankings are quite skrewed sometimes (I mean, putting EMLyon above ESSEC?), but still it may help to understanding the difference. For non-French students, another way to try to identify their level could be their academic exchange offers or double degrees. - EDHEC offers an exchange with University of Colorado at Denver, - HEC offers a double diploma with MIT.

French BS vs. French ES: I wouldn't put it so simply as ES > BS. It is true that the maths requirement tend to decrease with BS rankings while the importance given to maths and science remains high for lower level Engineer Schools. Another very flawed aspect of BS is that their entrance exam doesn't put negative points to the people who have already failed it, while ES do. Therefore the people who need to study 3 (or 4) years to get the same result as those who studied for 2 years are pretty much sorted out for ES entrance exam. The no-penalty consequence for BS is that you get to have morons even in top BS. Don't get me wrong, I don't say people doing 3 years before BS entrance are stupid. Some just were lazy or unsure about their orientation choices during their first two years and actually only started to work in 3rd year. For some it could be external problems (hospitalisation, real family issues, Volcano ash cloud blocking them away from exam centers... I've heard some wild stories). However the result of this no-penalty exam is that when you're interviewing a guy from HEC, you try to make sure he's a smart guy. Whereas you're more confident with a guy from Polytechnique. When talking about employment possibilities in Finance, you have to split IBD and S&T. Basically BS students have more education enabling them to land in IBD. They know their stuff. But I know a lot of ES students who made their way to IBD and just worked a lot to prove they could learn fast. IBD isn't rocket science. In the end what matter is your school ranking, not if it's ES or BS. Now for S&T it's different. Well, for strictly Sales you will find very few people from ES: it's rarely their cup of tea, and they aren't loved either by recruiters. And you will actually also struggle to see top BS students. The population of EDHEC or EMLyon students in sales is much greater than HEC or ESSEC, for example. For trading or structuring, ES students have an advantage over BS students. In average, they have better quantitative skills. I mean, you surely could find a very quantitative ESSEC student, ready and all to start trading, but they are few, and why would you prefer him/her over a guy from Polytechnique? Both could actually be valid, but the former will probably struggle a bit more to defend his position. As a general rule when considering BS vs. ES, I would really put them on similar levels. It's really about preference in studies. Oh, and for the bright BS students aiming to prove their quantitative skills, there are various opportunities: one-year programs in financial engineering at uni (e.g. the well-known El Karoui). HEC has quantitative double diplomas with both Polytechnique and MIT, also. (For that matter, it's somewhat funny to see an HEC student doing the same quantitative finance program as Polytechnique's and outmastering them. More the exception than the rule but still, it teaches you a lot about not only trusting stereotyped school rankings.)

On a late note, for quantitative positions French banks tend to refuse too easily BS candidates.

 

Bain and BCG were on campus this year but I don't think McK were. I'm not sure how many they took.

I'm currently a PG student at WBS and, outside of IBD and Big Four, Consultancies seem to be where everyone is heading, albeit not in London.

Alot of foreign students who are doing an MSc at WBS are being sponsored by firms and are treating the specialist programmes here pretty much like a v. specialized MBA. The average age of an MSc student is not too far off the average age of the MBA class.

Personally, I've gone into PE, but I had strong SA internship experience prior to starting my MSc.

Am I right in thinking that that programme has a Consultancy project attached to it as well?

Let me know if you have any specific questions on Warwick OCR this year.

 

Wow thanks that is more than expected!

Yes there is a consultancy project or a research as a final assignment. I am not admitted yet and still waiting for my admission status.

Those are definitely better partners than for EDHEC I think. What about Roland Berger, OC&C, LEK or OW?

Regarding the age, is it meaning that I am "too young" if I am 22 years old? Does WBS have a preference for candidates with experience? (I have graduated at HEC Montreal last june and since september doing a one year internship at Dassault Systemes US).

Thank you for your answer Clarkey

 
Flobb:
Wow thanks that is more than expected!

Yes there is a consultancy project or a research as a final assignment. I am not admitted yet and still waiting for my admission status.

Those are definitely better partners than for EDHEC I think. What about Roland Berger, OC&C, LEK or OW?

Regarding the age, is it meaning that I am "too young" if I am 22 years old? Does WBS have a preference for candidates with experience? (I have graduated at HEC Montreal last june and since september doing a one year internship at Dassault Systemes US).

Thank you for your answer Clarkey

http://www.lek.com/schools/university-warwick

If you type in University of Warwick followed by one of the firms you mention then loads comes up.

With regards to the age, no, WBS does not factor it into their recruitment criteria and there is no preference for experience unless you're applying to the MBA. I only mentioned age earlier to demonstrate that the major Consultancy firms are well represented by students and campus recruiting. (I went there straight from Undergrad in the US (3.8 GPA)).

I joined the Warwick Strategy and Consulting Society and I can confirm that alot of Consultancies reach out to the President of this Society, often with some cool opportunities.

 

Warwick much better I would say.

as pointed out above France for IBD/Consulting/S&T or whatever its HEC, ESSEC, ESCP.

as you can also see there are quite a lot of respected strategy companies recruiting at Warwick. Plus for UK jobs obviously it makes more sense. EDHEC is still a great school but a notch below those others and you will have a tough time competing against their students.

"too good to be true" See my WSO Blog
 

There was a post above mentioning firms sponsoring international students. Does that include USA? I am strongly considering doing a Masters at Warwick and would like to work in London for a few years.

 

Hey thanks Clarkey, I hoep so. The decision should arrive in 4 weeks. Higheck , as Clarkey said, Warwick is an excellent school in UK (top 5) and it is targeted by the top consulting and finance firms. If you take a closer look to each program on wbs site, you can see the recruiting firm in which graduates from each program are working at. Most of those firms are established in London, though you should find a work there.

Nevertheless, I do not think that any European school is known in North America, especially in the US. It is better to target a master in the country where you'd like to work because its network will be more effective.

 

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