Engineer ----> Trader

Are you only talking about trading jobs? If so, you could highlight quantitative skills as well as any industry or sector knowledge that you gained during previous internships.

Not sure if there is anything else.

It will also be important to have a very good answer to why you want to go into trading.

Have you taken any finance classes at school? If so, mention them. If not, say you will take them next year.

Graduated from GaTech w/ a degree in Industrial Engineering. Even tho GaTech is ranked #1 for IE degrees, I had a difficult time relaying to FT recruiters why I preferred finance over engineering. Even tho I ran the school's investment fund and had 2 finance internships, I still had to pound it into them that I know what I want. On the plus side, they just assumed I was smart, and thus could handle a more quant-type role than the business majors.

If you're at a target, you'll have an easier time in this process (whether its fair or not). Just be sure to get involved with on campus investment/finance clubs, open an investment account, and start networking now.

Yeah you'll probably be fine. Like you said, the most important thing is showing drive, passion, and problem-solving skills since most BBs and shops are looking for traders who are sharp and can learn quickly, rather than people with a lot of prior knowledge.

peyo212:

Have you taken any finance classes at school? If so, mention them. If not, say you will take them next year.

Or even say you're going to double major... OP, why are you studying ChemE if you want to be a trader? Are you a rising junior?

just try not to go to far when talking of your "quant" skills.

a lot of mathematicians work on the trading floor.

i was an engineer with no finance background, getting a job at a prop isn't that difficult if you can get through their stupid interview process(mental math and IQ test type crap).

protectedclass:

i was an engineer with no finance background, getting a job at a prop isn't that difficult if you can get through their stupid interview process(mental math and IQ test type crap).

Optiver comes to mind with a process like this. Black Scholes options book etc help, They'll be looking at math skills and ability to adapt quickly. If you show them that you are learning on your own and are passionate about it, then that should help sway them in your favor.

peyo212:

Haha idk man, chemical engineering is pretty tough. I imagine OP is a smart cookie

I have no idea what kinds of questions math guys on trading desks will ask, but I'm with moritzplatz on this. the math a pure mathematician uses is pretty different than what an engineer is used to. But yeah, I'm sure OP is smart enough to get by.

Another question. I've been involved in market making (Equities) in a simulated environment. Is it the same in derivatives? I'd imagine it isn't as intense rather, you don't have to be constantly monitoring prices? Also, is there a sales man and a sales trader as well working with the trader? Thanks

there is no math in Chem Eng

Perhaps look into Energy trading. Chemical engineers would do well, esp on the physical side. Not sure if your set on FX

KaySpectre:

there is no math in Chem Eng

wat

I would focus your attention on two things. 1) what the stereotype of an engineer is and does and 2) as deep a knowledge as possible on the market structure.

Stereotypes are important. Engineers have a tendency to view a series of rules and outcomes based on settled and tested events. They might be viewed as a bit ridged and less adaptable. You have to be smart, but thinking you are smart going into this may not be to your advantage. Chemical engineering is going to focus attention on the word chemical. What does this mean and how can it be interpreted and explained to a non engineer? I am generalizing here but my intent is to get you to see this in a different way.

Market structure will give you a much better understanding of how the business works. In fact it is the key to transitions and making or losing big money. At least in my view. it will demonstrate a better knowledge than anything pure math. How does the market work? Where do the orders come from? How and what rules affect the shape and activity in my market etc.

Remember that recruiters only see what works for them. They are miopic and only know the language of the business they serve. Your challenge is to look at the courses you took in trading and finance and translate the engineering language into a finance/trading language.

moritzplatz:

well, I interviewed in some structuring \ trading desks for SA and most of the questions were maths based

I would not talk about Black Scholes, or if you do make sure you know the conditions you need for it to apply.

I don't know what it means to "derive the greeks", maybe defining them, but that is not mathematically challenging at all!

Oh I see thanks for the info. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greeks_(finance) If you scroll down to 'Formulas for vanilla option Greeks' you'll see what I mean.

Lone Wolf:

I would focus your attention on two things. 1) what the stereotype of an engineer is and does and 2) as deep a knowledge as possible on the market structure.

Stereotypes are important. Engineers have a tendency to view a series of rules and outcomes based on settled and tested events. They might be viewed as a bit ridged and less adaptable. You have to be smart, but thinking you are smart going into this may not be to your advantage. Chemical engineering is going to focus attention on the word chemical. What does this mean and how can it be interpreted and explained to a non engineer? I am generalizing here but my intent is to get you to see this in a different way.

Market structure will give you a much better understanding of how the business works. In fact it is the key to transitions and making or losing big money. At least in my view. it will demonstrate a better knowledge than anything pure math. How does the market work? Where do the orders come from? How and what rules affect the shape and activity in my market etc.

Remember that recruiters only see what works for them. They are miopic and only know the language of the business they serve. Your challenge is to look at the courses you took in trading and finance and translate the engineering language into a finance/trading language.

From what i study a lot is based on assumptions and expecting the unexpected with regards to outcomes. I feel engineers are very flexible and are designers at the end of the day. No guarantees there. It seems to me that Chemical Engineering is seen differently in the states? We don't actually study any Chemistry here in the UK and the name is rather outdated. A more appropriate name would be Process Engineering. Here recruiters are becoming more and more aware of this as more ChemEngers enter the industry. Just to make things clear, I am by no means insinuating that my 'mathematical skills' will leave me in a superior position. I was simply wondering what other engineers working in the industry leveraged other than problem solving and numerical skills?

Btw I have been following the markets for over a year now and it would have been very ignorant of me to think that I could enter the industry because I can do a bit of maths. Thank you very much for your insightful input and would appreciate more advice.

peyo212:

mmbootwo:

Perhaps look into Energy trading. Chemical engineers would do well, esp on the physical side. Not sure if your set on FX

I think this analogy will help engineers who are thinking about trading.

When liberal arts (history, politics, etc.) majors from target schools go into IBD or S&T, did they pick their major for the sake of finance? I don't think so. To some extent, this even applies to econ majors because let's be real here, how much of what you learn in all those theoretical econ classes applies to a job on Wall Street? (Disclaimer: my school's econ classes were like this, so I could be wrong in general)

The same applies for engineers. These students want to try out finance (mostly trading from what I've seen) because they're trying to switch gears from their major, pun intended. Just as a chemistry/biology major could potentially have an advantage in equity research in pharmaceutical companies, so too a chemical engineer could do well in energy trading. But in the end, this advantage is probably negligible, since (and most of us in the industry can attest to this) a lot of people learn 100% of the required skills/knowledge on the job anyway.

tl;dr Engineers should use their abilities, not their knowledge, to excel in finance.

keep telling yourself that

KaySpectre:

peyo212:

mmbootwo:

Perhaps look into Energy trading. Chemical engineers would do well, esp on the physical side. Not sure if your set on FX

I think this analogy will help engineers who are thinking about trading.

When liberal arts (history, politics, etc.) majors from target schools go into IBD or S&T, did they pick their major for the sake of finance? I don't think so. To some extent, this even applies to econ majors because let's be real here, how much of what you learn in all those theoretical econ classes applies to a job on Wall Street? (Disclaimer: my school's econ classes were like this, so I could be wrong in general)

The same applies for engineers. These students want to try out finance (mostly trading from what I've seen) because they're trying to switch gears from their major, pun intended. Just as a chemistry/biology major could potentially have an advantage in equity research in pharmaceutical companies, so too a chemical engineer could do well in energy trading. But in the end, this advantage is probably negligible, since (and most of us in the industry can attest to this) a lot of people learn 100% of the required skills/knowledge on the job anyway.

tl;dr Engineers should use their abilities, not their knowledge, to excel in finance.

keep telling yourself that

I mean, it's how I (and several of my colleagues + classmates) got in. So yes, I will :)

peyo212:

KaySpectre:

peyo212:

mmbootwo:

Perhaps look into Energy trading. Chemical engineers would do well, esp on the physical side. Not sure if your set on FX

I think this analogy will help engineers who are thinking about trading.

When liberal arts (history, politics, etc.) majors from target schools go into IBD or S&T, did they pick their major for the sake of finance? I don't think so. To some extent, this even applies to econ majors because let's be real here, how much of what you learn in all those theoretical econ classes applies to a job on Wall Street? (Disclaimer: my school's econ classes were like this, so I could be wrong in general)

The same applies for engineers. These students want to try out finance (mostly trading from what I've seen) because they're trying to switch gears from their major, pun intended. Just as a chemistry/biology major could potentially have an advantage in equity research in pharmaceutical companies, so too a chemical engineer could do well in energy trading. But in the end, this advantage is probably negligible, since (and most of us in the industry can attest to this) a lot of people learn 100% of the required skills/knowledge on the job anyway.

tl;dr Engineers should use their abilities, not their knowledge, to excel in finance.

keep telling yourself that

I mean, it's how I (and several of my colleagues + classmates) got in. So yes, I will :)

i believe u, don't commit fraud or go belly up, and pay your tax

ucldon:

lol what? As ridiculous as this may sound, I think you mean to say there is no Chemistry?

i am sure theres chem in that, but no math, r u really in chem eng?

From what i study a lot is based on assumptions and expecting the unexpected with regards to outcomes. I feel engineers are very flexible and are designers at the end of the day. No guarantees there. It seems to me that Chemical Engineering is seen differently in the states? We don't actually study any Chemistry here in the UK and the name is rather outdated. A more appropriate name would be Process Engineering. Here recruiters are becoming more and more aware of this as more ChemEngers enter the industry. Just to make things clear, I am by no means insinuating that my 'mathematical skills' will leave me in a superior position. I was simply wondering what other engineers working in the industry leveraged other than problem solving and numerical skills?

Btw I have been following the markets for over a year now and it would have been very ignorant of me to think that I could enter the industry because I can do a bit of maths. Thank you very much for your insightful input and would appreciate more advice.

[/quote]

I am making no judgment on your skills or knowledge rather pointing out that getting hired is sort of a beauty contest. My comment is meant to get you to examine what you can do and how to translate that into a financial language. My grandfather was an engineer (civil) and he said that at some point it (the work) was no longer about engineering, it was about a thought process.

What thought process does the training in your field engender and how does that translate to fx? Just a different approach to the question you are asking.

It may sound corny...but there was a line in one of the recent wall street movies...i think it was call "Margin Call" where one of the risk mgmt quants was defending his analysis...and a senior manager asked what his background was and why he was working there...his response was along the lines of "i have a PhD in fluid dynamics...and the behavior of securities is very similar to the behavior of fluids...so the math was similar...and wall street paid a lot more for doing similar work." The character was promoted to the head of risk mgmt shortly thereafter. This scenario is closer to reality than many of you might suspect.