Military to investment banking transition(Enlisted Version)
Hello Everyone!
This is my first time posting on this forum but I have been reading around for quite some time(since High School), and I have a few questions that maybe some of you with prior experience could help me get a better grasp on.
Just for some background, I am currently a 22 year old with 4 years of experience in the Air Force. I enlisted when I was 18 and have been working non stop on my school endeavors. I started at American Military University and realized that I was not really gaining much from the courses I took, so I just recently transferred to Penn State University and plan on getting my degree done by early 2019. My contract is up later that year.
My questions are:
1). Would it be better to go straight into IB from the military or would it be best to go and get my MBA after I get out and use my Post 9/11 to pay for it. From what I have gathered so far if I choose the first choice I will be starting out as an analyst and due to the amount of hours I will be putting in I would most likely not have time to get my MBA while working. If I take the latter option I would be going in as an Associate, however the issue I have seen as a trend on the forums is that many people say that if you get your MBA straight out of undergrad you're pretty much stuck in IB and really have a slim chance of crossing over, and that leads me into my next question.
2) Would it be better to get my MBA after I get out and do an internship that way Ill have at least some banking experience and I will be able to network on campus as well as using my military connects?
3) Will me graduating from Penn State help or hurt my chances with getting a good IB job. They have a good Alumni network and I have pretty decent grades. (3.5 GPA). If I take the MBA route I plan to get into a Top Tier program.
Ultimately I want to go into PE, so I am looking for the best route to that. I really appreciate those that took the time to read this.
*I also have read that they really look for people on the Analyst side because they have more experience in modeling etc. that's why I am really torn on which route I should go.
I'd strongly suggest you wait until you've worked at least two years before applying to grad school. You probably won't get into a top tier program without civi experience anyway (especially as an enlisted). Getting an internship is pretty easy as via the veteran programs at JPM/GS You won't be able to intern while on active duty. So, what month is your contract up and what month will you graduate? What are you studying? There's a bunch we need to know to give decent advice.
(I'm former Air Force. Hit my PM )
Thanks for your advice. I will graduate in May of 2019, and I will get out of the military September 2019 so that will give me roughly 4 months to look for a job. I am Majoring in Economics but I kind of want to take some Law classes(I think this would give me a slight edge).
Work first. Most people I know who have been in military or some sort are now MDs so maybe there's a good chance you can try to make a sort of connection.
Your timing is a little unfortunate. You'll miss FT recruiting and the normal orientation cycle. But, since you're at a non target, that won't matter much. There are off cycle internships occasionally and you should definitely apply, but you're better off going for full time entry level roles. It's numbers game without a good network. Get your linkedin, cover letter, and resume perfect. Highlight leadership and critical thinking. Make your summary statement concise but informative. Apply to at least 200 entry level positions. Front or Back Office is ok if there is some relatable securities or transaction exposure. Take advantage of military experience and aim for Top Tier American firms in PE and IB. Blackstone, KKR, Carlyle and Citi, GS, JPM, BAML. If you can, go for junior leadership programs. As an unconventional candidate who spent 6 years in the military, you'll need polishing to fit into the corporate culture. We can talk about this in more detail but: know why your boss is asking you for something, take ownership of projects, ask questions (anticipate the responses though), etc.
Basically, get two years experience in anything remotely related to ibanking/trading/corpfin back or front office. Crush it everyday, anticipate your bosses needs, network, learn how your group fits in to the banks larger picture, then go for the IB role you want. You'll suffer for two years then either go to PE or grad school, depending on the quality of options you have.
Take one business law class so you understand contract theory. But don't waste more time than that. All deal teams have counsel. I assume you know what a WACC is and how to do a DCF. This site, along with some books I can send are a great resource. Also, make sure you understand Macros/ VBA via PPt and Excel. A computer programming class will do you wonders (unless you're a 1BXX, then just look at practical applications of VBA automation). raygreenleaf
Actually...make sure you apply to some of the rotational programs as well. If the program was still around I would have pointed you towards the Wall Street Warfighters ( a 5 month-ish resident program that had some great BB placements), but sadly they don't exist in an organized fashion now.
Since you still have university credits remaining, go finish the program at a reputable program (like the one you're in).
You have a MAJOR advantage over most military candidates. Veteran associate candidates are a dime a dozen because most military vets trying to do IB are former officers at MBA programs. A veteran analyst candidate is somewhat of a unicorn which makes it much easier for firms to place you through their programs, and the firms can feel much more comfortable about the hire. It's a lower risk than any associate hire, and they know that you won't have most if any of the weaknesses typically associated with millenial/Gen Z analyst candidates.
They should give accelerated/special recruiting to veterans that have served and defended our country. LGBT, URM shouldn't be given early recruiting opportunities.
Its kind of funny because I fall into the LGBT category too, however I really do not want to have special privileges because of my sexual orientation id rather get a job for my good work ethic and ability etc.
That's great to know, here's my timeline of how i am thinking of breaking into IB. Graduate UG- Analyst 2 years(Try to chip off as much of my MBA as possible)- Transition to PE- finish MBA.
You will not touch any grad level coursework during your 2 years as an investment banking analyst. Period.
Either way, you're in a great spot. Off the top of my head, I know GS and JPM both have programs exactly for people like you (people coming out that already have college degrees; usually just means officers but you're obviously the exception). I think they typically recruit in the late Fall and start in March, so that may align with your graduation (provided that the timeline is roughly the same). Best thing you can do now is network network network. I ended up breaking into IB thanks to my very first banking contact that I met 1.5 years before interviewing.
As an enlisted veteran who just spent the last few months getting shit on for analyst positions, unicorns aren't always desired.
Granted I didn't really discover IB until just before recruiting season so I was behind the 8 ball to begin with.
I'm studying for the GMAT and plan to apply for MBA round 2's along with smaller boutique analyst positions
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Formerly enlisted vet here (Marines). The Post 9/11 is a HUGE help because you get school paid for + allowance for housing. Quite honestly, you can do a little bit of everything. It's a grind everyday, but not being worried about paying for school and not getting loads of debt is a huge advantage that other monkeys here didn't have. I was able to go to a semi-target school and do internships, etc, until I got my break into the industry How can a (pretty much) free MBA hurt you? If I were you, I'd try to do MBA after you get out., Point 2 is more the angle that I was going to suggest. You can still do an internship after your MBA so that you can network and learn. Penn State is not a terrible choice. Did you have any other schools in mind? Everyone here posts their own experiences and suggestions, but it should not be construed as law of the land. I mentioned that most monkeys probably did not have the Post 9/11 or were not in the military, so their career path and experiences breaking into their desired field was WAY different than what yours will be. You have a couple of vets here from what I can see that have provided some really fucking solid advice. So you have plenty of support as well.
Advice for Possible Military to MBA/I-Banking (Originally Posted: 08/22/2015)
Hey guys,
I am a current Army Infantry Officer (detailed from M.I.) thinking about some of my options a few years down the road and am looking for some advice. I have read a few of the posts concerning military officer transitions to investment banks and they have been really helpful. I am considering applying to both MBA programs and the veterans initiative programs that some of the BB's run.
Anyways, I commissioned out of an ROTC program from a non-target run of the mill state school. With that being said, I did very well there, graduating with a 3.85 GPA and a B.S. in Economics. But obviously my concern is the lack of "prestige" that my school holds. It seems that most of the vets at top MBA programs are service academy grads. Furthermore, even though I did major in Economics, I did not take any more math classes than necessary (business calculus). I am looking for suggestions on how to mitigate my perceived lack of quantitative ability and my less prestigious undergraduate institution. Also, any general advice on how I can use the next 2-3 years to prepare for MBA applications would be greatly appreciated especially from veterans who have made the transition themselves. I have not yet taken the GMAT. I plan to begin studying in a few weeks after my PCS.
A few things I am considering doing: -Taking an online financial modeling course -Taking some additional undergraduate calc. courses and then beginning a quantitative focused masters such as financial engineering or a certificate program. I have been looking at University of Washington's which is completely online and has a pretty good reputation. Obviously, the huge downside is cost. -CFA- I have read the merger and inquisitions article strongly recommending against this as a bad usage of time and because of its little relation to investment banking. I am merely throwing it out there as it would demonstrate quantitative skills .
Basically, I know I need to crush the GMAT and network. What else should I do in the next 2-3 years given my background? Thanks!
Hey,
Thanks for reaching out. I was in a similar situation as you-- I commissioned via ROTC from a state school and was a non-STEM major in undergrad. I was just admitted to Columbia Business School (where I will be attending) for the class of 2018. Your GPA is very good, especially for military applicants. I wouldn't worry about your undergrad's reputation; I also noticed the plethora of academy grads at top schools. As far as I can tell, academy guys are more likely to apply for MBA programs for whatever reason, and it has nothing to do with adcoms preferring one school over another.
I also wouldn't worry about your perceived lack of quantitative background. Econ is more quant focused than many other majors. Keep in mind that plenty of people with liberal arts backgrounds get into top schools each year. Doing well on the quant portion of the GMAT certainly doesn't hurt though. Of all the schools I considered applying to, I believe only Fuqua explicitly states that Calc is required prior to starting school (it isn't required for admissions though), so I wouldn't worry about taking any online courses or anything like that.
Feel free to PM me if you'd like to talk more. Like you already said, the biggest thing you can do right now is get cracking on the GMAT.
The Calc requirement at Fuqua went away unless you are explicitly told by admissions to complete it (which will not happen with your good GPA in a quant heavy major). I'm 3 weeks in at Fuqua as a first year and can't overstate how impressed I've been with both the program and the vets group. Just super happy, and thankful I decided to make this choice.
PM me your email and I can send you the 3 year transition timeline I made up. It isn't IB specific. I wouldn't even worry about IB specific items yet. Make getting into a great school your first concern. Once that task is complete, go to the GS VIP program prior to starting school, and then enter the IB recruiting process like everyone else once school starts. It is a well worn path.
Thanks for responding and congratulations on your admissions to Columbia! That's got to be an awesome feeling! Sending a PM.
Don't worry, the fact that you're even thinking this puts you ahead of many of our fellow vets who end up at great MBA programs. Many vets start their applications/GMAT prep right around their PCS, and exit directly into B-school. If you plan a few year ramp up, you will be more than fine. Hopefully you can time your PCS to line up directly with the beginning of your program; if not, make sure to look at pre-MBA internships.
In the current environment, the military becomes your backstory/history/prestige, pretty much everything else gets eclipsed by that. Just do well on the GMAT and cull your application list based on that.
Active Duty Military to Investment Banking - Need Advice (Originally Posted: 02/01/2017)
Need some advice - I am planning to transition out of the Army (8 years as Logistics Officer) next year, while also applying for an online MSF program through a renowned university. My grades as an undergrad (Top 50 ranked school) were awful -- 2.55 GPA. However, investment banking is the sector that I absolutely want to get into, and my goal is to graduate with an MSF/MBA and a job as an associate in Investment Banking / Management for medium to large firm. Should I be concentrated on getting an online MSF? Or actually applying for a residential MBA program? Which one would best suit someone with no background in finance who is trying to break in?
The GPA will make it difficult. However, that GPA will also make it difficult to get into most schools that put you into competition for IB related roles.
My vote is that the easiest way in would be if you swallow the pill of starting as an analyst, get an MSF, and push that GPA high while applying to veteran placement programs.
Also get in touch with an organization called the Wall Street Warfighters.
Thanks for the advice!
Looking to transition to Investment Banking from a Military Background (Originally Posted: 05/06/2016)
I am trying to transition into investment banking from a Air Traffic Control background in the military. I have a Bachelors in Accounting and graduated Cum Laude from a university that allowed for my constant deployments and moving around. I would not consider the school top tier but caters to the military very well. I have held senior level positions in the military and in volunteer activities, so leadership for me has been checked off and I am very organized and detail oriented.
What I am wondering is what should I do to help boost my resume? I am looking at doing the Wall Street Prep course and read Rosenbaum's Investment Banking book to round out my knowledge base.
Any suggestions would be extremely helpful.
Many threads out there on this, I'd make liberal use of the search feature. If you are old enough to have been senior in the military, you are already at an age disadvantage. Your best bet is to crush the GMAT and get into the best MBA program you can. The good ones all have military alums in the industry that will make it easier on you from there.
After you have looked through the big threads on the topic, send me a PM if you have specific questions (prior military and sox fan).
Thanks! Yeah I have spent that last few hours on here looking at tons of threads trying to get as much information as possible, everything from the long hours, age, education, etc. There is a ton of information out there, some is contradictory. Like the age thing, some say because of my military background it would help others say hurt. I am 41 right now and will be taking the GMAT in Aug. I appreciate the info and will PM if I have any questions.
Military to IB (Originally Posted: 04/20/2016)
Hi,
There might have been similar posts about this subject. Long story short I have a Masters of Science in Strategic Management from Michigan State University and I am also currently pursuing a Masters of Science in Finance at Indiana University with a 3.6 GPA. I am currently in the Army and will be retiring in less than four years after 20 years of service. I will be 38 years young at that point of time. Also my MOS/Job in the Army is Contracting and Acquisitions. I am wondering what I should be doing now in order to have a decent chance at an IB career after I complete my military service. Should I be pursuing an MBA or will both the MS in Management/MS in Finance and my military service already be a good start to get a foot in the door? From what I see it looks like MBAs are pretty much the standard. Also should I be at least looking into the CFA? I just don't want to close any doors if I am not going in the right direction. Thank you for any advice and words of wisdom.
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/military-too-old-for-consulting-ib I assume you'll be around this guy's age when you leave, so hopefully you'll find it somewhat enlightening.
Also, how many graduate degrees will you hold by the end of your service?...
I will only have the two degrees. The MiM and the MSF. Maybe I just worry a bit about not going for an MBA. It always seems to be the go to degree across the board.
Maybe some other vets have some additional advice or people that have known prior military get hired?
Hey Brother, I shot you a PM. Feel free to reach out anytime.
I have both MSF and MBA from IU and was prior mil. PM me if you like.
If you really want IB I would stop the MSF and apply for the full time MBA To coincide with the time you get out. Being overeducated won't help you nearly as much as OCR. If you really want IB you should get out now and do an MBA - but know there is a huge opportunity cost with no guarantee you would make it.
I am already indef, not really an option at this point. I am not looking at the aspect of being overeducated. I have the Post 9/11 so I am using it to get the degrees since I have the funds available. I can also still get the MBA at IU or other decent Universities without getting out and I can still get my retirement at 20. I am looking at how to get a foot in the door with the options I have, not really throwing everything away for a chance. Thanks for the advice though, I will be looking at the MBA, I was thinking that might be a better option.
Check out the VIBA at Rice University, I know some of them and they are cool people. Worth a reach-out.
Enlisted military looking to pursue carrer in IB/PE/VC (Originally Posted: 10/18/2013)
I am an E5, getting out of the military with a BA in intelligence studies, apx a 3.6 gpa when I will graduate. I am looking to change career paths from intelligence analysis to IB/PE/VC, but do not know the best way to make the transition. I know getting an MBA might help, but a lot of my readings say to get a job in these fields, you need pre-MBA experience? I will have 6 years Intelligence Analysis experience, 2 deployments, and a BA. Any ideas?
Sent you a private message.
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