army- enlisted to mba programs

what are admissions at top schools looking for in a military career from an enlisted soldier? are they more likely to admit applicants from the special operations community (seals, rangers, and special forces) or does that background come into play at all when assessing applicants? most of the schools websites that i visit only mention military officers that have transitioned to the civilian world through an mba program. are some schools more likely to admit military personnel? what type of background or leadership are they looking for? i AM considering any school outside of hysp and leaning toward a bigten school; i may also consider duke, uva, dartmouth, or canadian schools (mcgill/ u of toronto). any advice would be greatly appreciated as i'm eager and slightly anxious to get back to the civilian side.

 

Yeah, I definitely did everything in the wrong order but It was really the only way to do my program. I think an MBA would be the best way to transition back to finance. I have only heard of officer profiles at most schools though.

 

Former enlisted here. It's alot more rare to find an enlisted person going directly from active duty to a top MBA program. In my case, I went from enlisted to undergrad, then worked a few years, then became an MBA candidate. So I'd say my military experience had very little to do with my admittance to the program (I'm a URM w/ a 700+ GMAT and high level work experience at 3 fortune 50s). However, I've got 2 classmates who came in straight from enlisted: one was special forces (SFOD-D) who somehow found time to pursue his undergrad degree part time, the other was a white house liaison(!) with a super high GMAT. He enlisted after undergrad and worked in some sort of national security role.

So if you want to come in straight from enlisted to a top program, you have to have either some special technical ability or tons of leadership. The problem is people with that type of rank (E-6 or above) have usually been in for a few years, while officers start off in a management capacity and come out younger. I would say that so long as your "story" is compelling (multiple deployments, medals or honors, leadership experience) and your stats within range, you'd be viewed in a positive light. But if you've been in for several years and are on the older side (31+) it probably gets a bit more difficult, but not impossible.

 

He never stated it or even discussed anything military as far as I remember (Odd enough given that the special forces guys talked about their experiences within certain limits and allowed the school to profile them), I just surmised it due to the veil of secrecy around his service, his age, and his vague resume (liaison, contractor, advisor, etc.) typical fields for those guys once they're done. If he hadn't been an operator of SOME sort I'd be very surprised, but could be wrong.

 

I guess I assumed that people from the community would be viewed in a more positive light. My officer friends coming from ROTC programs (not academies) are practically retarded. They tell me if you have a pulse and a degree you can get commissioned.

 
luiscarruthers:

I guess I assumed that people from the community would be viewed in a more positive light. My officer friends coming from ROTC programs (not academies) are practically retarded. They tell me if you have a pulse and a degree you can get commissioned.

That attitude is not going to help. Why did you not become an officer then?

Coming from a college senior who can only enlist because of US Citizenship status. How I wish I had US Citizenship so that I could do ROTC or go to OCS.

 

You are absolutely right: That attitude won't help him. But, if you ever chance to be a reasonably-intelligent enlisted Enlisted person you will see many fresh-out-of-college butter bars lieutenants who seem to be as dumb as a box of rocks. Unfortunately, the Officer class view themselves as a higher caste - by birth. Any person who serves as an enlisted, and then subsequently tries for the Officer programs is viewed as an interloper - trying to get something (Commission) that he doesn't deserve. Their attitude is akin to '... if he was smart enough to BE an Officer, he would hae BEEN an Officer already".

 
luiscarruthers:

I guess I assumed that people from the community would be viewed in a more positive light. My officer friends coming from ROTC programs (not academies) are practically retarded. They tell me if you have a pulse and a degree you can get commissioned.

Did you look at that link yet? You are generalizing about the perception of all enlisted personnel in the admissions process. Sounds like you havent really researched anything yet

 
luiscarruthers:

I guess I assumed that people from the community would be viewed in a more positive light. My officer friends coming from ROTC programs (not academies) are practically retarded. They tell me if you have a pulse and a degree you can get commissioned.

I'm a military officer and I actually agree with this statement. that being said, just because you are a commissioned officer does not mean that you are intelligent enough/a good enough leader to go to a top MBA program.

Like the guy said above, most enlisted personnel that actually have some sort of meaningful leadership experience are usually a bit more senior (at least E-5s, if not E-6s) and are probably a bit too old to be selected for an MBA program.

That being said, I guarantee with enough hard work (and a 730 or 740) you can get into a school like Emory or UNC or USC. Just keep working on your profile and make sure to sell your previous military experience as much as you can.

 
Best Response

I think it also has to do with more self selection. Most people who've done a few years enlisted probably don't have MBAs at the top of their "to-do" lists at Separation. Many of them get more technical degrees because of all the specialized training they've had while in or prefer to go right to work because they likely have families at age of separation. However officers are generalists by trade, managers by rank, and so probably see the MBA as more attractive.

Also, not all Enlisted are the same...if you got a GT score in the 80s you're probably not going to have a super technical role. But there are enlisted who are Air Traffic Controllers, Communications Specialists, Engineers, etc...I'd imagine that those guys would have a much better shot assuming they weren't too old and were actually interested in obtaining the degree.

Finally, and I'm sorry to say this, but enlisted folks tend to go to....lesser ranked schools. (My own undergrad was tier 3 on a good day!). The quality of your undergrad definitely matters at the top-to-elite level...I got lucky because of my work experience. I've actually had interviewers ask me HOW I managed to nail my first gig coming out of XYZ school (the answer is networking through my fraternity). The typical enlisted transcript will have a mish mash of part time courses at multiple lesser regarded schools correspondent with their moving from base to base. I would say in cases such as that, get the highest GPA possible. Not sure this applies in your case, but it's just another data point to consider when analyzing the landscape, given that again, these are folks who are much less likely to be considering MBAs.

I'm in my school's veteran's club and have given student tours to prospectives and held Q&As and easily 99% of the transitioning military personnel I've met have been officers. I always ask specifically for enlisted, but think that they're just not applying in great numbers. The former enlisted that I have seen so far (all 3 of them, my 2 classmates excluded) have all had civilian work experience post- military. That disparity can only help you stand out especially if your stats/experience are in range.

 
TheGrind:

I think it also has to do with more self selection. Most people who've done a few years enlisted probably don't have MBAs at the top of their "to-do" lists at Separation. Many of them get more technical degrees because of all the specialized training they've had while in or prefer to go right to work because they likely have families at age of separation. However officers are generalists by trade, managers by rank, and so probably see the MBA as more attractive.

Also, not all Enlisted are the same...if you got a GT score in the 80s you're probably not going to have a super technical role. But there are enlisted who are Air Traffic Controllers, Communications Specialists, Engineers, etc...I'd imagine that those guys would have a much better shot assuming they weren't too old and were actually interested in obtaining the degree.

Finally, and I'm sorry to say this, but enlisted folks tend to go to....lesser ranked schools. (My own undergrad was tier 3 on a good day!). The quality of your undergrad definitely matters at the top-to-elite level...I got lucky because of my work experience. I've actually had interviewers ask me HOW I managed to nail my first gig coming out of XYZ school (the answer is networking through my fraternity). The typical enlisted transcript will have a mish mash of part time courses at multiple lesser regarded schools correspondent with their moving from base to base. I would say in cases such as that, get the highest GPA possible. Not sure this applies in your case, but it's just another data point to consider when analyzing the landscape, given that again, these are folks who are much less likely to be considering MBAs.

I'm in my school's veteran's club and have given student tours to prospectives and held Q&As and easily 99% of the transitioning military personnel I've met have been officers. I always ask specifically for enlisted, but think that they're just not applying in great numbers. The former enlisted that I have seen so far (all 3 of them, my 2 classmates excluded) have all had civilian work experience post- military. That disparity can only help you stand out especially if your stats/experience are in range.

@thegrind - great post. +1 SB

 

What the fuck. Intimately familiar with the nuke track... You do NOT want to spend 6yrs minimum boiling water and being miserable. Basically a glorified mechanic... Working in an oven... With a ton of stress and pressure.

Take your degree and go work in the private sector, notice I didn't say go officer, just go straight to corporate America.

 

I agree. I am currently serving active duty as an E6. I am 31 years old with about 7 years of total time. I did my infantry time and then switched over to Special Operations, went through the entire pipeline and learned a language. I ETS soon and already enrolled in UNC's Executive MBA Program. UNC is a tier 3 business school. I dont think any of you should self-select, just go online and see what the school's requirements are and start chipping away at them. Don't let rank misguide you, we all have the same opportunities to accomplish whatever we want. Im not anything special either, I was just a guy not too long ago trying to figure it out and still am. Hopefully this helps one of you with a realistic approach.

 

Your enlisted experience will count as work experience for an MBA application. Former officers are more prevalent at the top MBA programs but there are always a handful of former enlisted guys in each class. For the brutal honesty part, SNHU is probably going to keep you out of most of the top programs. With the massive growth in their online programs (which I'm guessing you are part of if still on AD) and the constant TV advertising most people equate SNHU with the for-profit colleges. Unfortunately the military does it's people a disservice by considering any degree from any school to be comparable and "check the box" so lots of people choose their school based on who is closest to Tuition Assistance. If you're off active duty I would try to transfer to another school and finish your undergrad degree at a better program if at all possible.

 

It's much better to go in Officer. If you have that option and are already envisioning an MBA in your future then by all means take it. However, if you're going Enlisted out of undergrad, a few things will make you more competitive: graduating from a top undergrad, working in some super technical niche yet interesting role (think special forces, Speaking Arabic, Engineering, etc) or an interesting leadership role (junior NCOs are mostly seen as executive assistants to officers). This is necessary because unless you're an NCO you won't get the same leadership and/or administrative skills or even "he's smart" benefit of the doubt that officers coming from the service academies will. While ROTC officers w/ decent resumes get in, or those who went to quality schools, the obvious appeal of a West Point or US Naval Academy gives a major edge candidates. Just look at HBS' entire military class.

The best way to put it: you can be Enlisted, but you have to do big things for the school to avoid the perception that you were just some grunt doing his time;.

 
TheGrind:

It's much better to go in Officer. If you have that option and are already envisioning an MBA in your future then by all means take it. However, if you're going Enlisted out of undergrad, a few things will make you more competitive: graduating from a top undergrad, working in some super technical niche yet interesting role (think special forces, Speaking Arabic, Engineering, etc) or an interesting leadership role (junior NCOs are mostly seen as executive assistants to officers). This is necessary because unless you're an NCO you won't get the same leadership and/or administrative skills or even "he's smart" benefit of the doubt that officers coming from the service academies will. While ROTC officers w/ decent resumes get in, or those who went to quality schools, the obvious appeal of a West Point or US Naval Academy gives a major edge candidates. Just look at HBS' entire military class.

The best way to put it: you can be Enlisted, but you have to do big things for the school to avoid the perception that you were just some grunt doing his time;.

Thanks for the reply. I recently spoke to my brothers friend who is a former Marine, but is a Physician Assistant so he wasn't able to provide more information about people leaving the military for MBAs. He also recommened me to go the Officer route and maybe join the special forces. He did however, recommend that if I am not sure what I want out of the military is to go Enlisted.

 
TheKid1:

Thanks for the reply. I recently spoke to my brothers friend who is a former Marine, but is a Physician Assistant so he wasn't able to provide more information about people leaving the military for MBAs. He also recommened me to go the Officer route and maybe join the special forces. He did however, recommend that if I am not sure what I want out of the military is to go Enlisted.

This doesn't make any sense to me. Other than the programs that target enlistment directly into Special Operations I cannot think of any reason why you would prefer to go in as enlisted if you have the choice to go the officer route. You will have more responsibility, more room for promotion and better options when leaving the military as an officer. What possible reasoning did he give to enlist over commissioning?

 

A lot of bad advice on this thread.

  1. A typical enlisted and non-air officer contract is 8 years. 4 active and 4 IRR.
  2. Nobody gets called off of the IRR unless we commit ourselves to another major war. I doubt anybody is being called off of the IRR right now and if they are that percentage would be less than 0.5% of the IRR population. But again, I don't know of a single example of someone being called off of the IRR in the past 2 years among all of my friends that are still in the IRR.
  3. There are PLENTY of enlisted in the top MBA programs. I can think of 10 at my school off the top of my head. I'm sure there are lots more.
  4. "My officer friends coming from ROTC programs (not academies) are practically retarded. They tell me if you have a pulse and a degree you can get commissioned." ---I'm not sure what this statement says about your "friends" or yourself, but I would figure out a different way to tell your story because this projects you in a pretty bad light.
 

Are you 100% on the IRR part? I talked to navy army and marine for both enlisted and officer contracts and IRR was never mentioned. The only people that sign up for IRR that I know of are people that do reserve contracts where they'll do part on full reserve and part on IRR, or when you retire you have to volunteer for IRR to get your full benefits, which if you have none you would not do.

 
anonymousbro:

Are you 100% on the IRR part? I talked to navy army and marine for both enlisted and officer contracts and IRR was never mentioned. The only people that sign up for IRR that I know of are people that do reserve contracts where they'll do part on full reserve and part on IRR, or when you retire you have to volunteer for IRR to get your full benefits, which if you have none you would not do.

Yes, I'm sure. IRR was never mentioned to you because its really not a big deal and from the recruiters point of view it is a lot more difficult to sale an 8 year commitment vs. a 4 year.. It is extremely rare for someone to get called off of the IRR, but if you look at the contract you sign it is for 8 years. 4 active and 4 IRR, although the 4 IRR is virtually transparent to you. You are supposed to muster once per year, but most people don't.

Just to be clear, there are 3 main classifications. There are more than 3 such as AR (Active Reserve), or IMA(Individual Mobilized Augmentee). But the three main classifications are Active Duty, Selective Reserve (Reserve), and Individual Ready Reserve (IRR). I just left the service after 9 years.

 

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