Hong Kong vs. US
Hello, I'm an undergraduate at a non-target school, currently working in Hong Kong over the summer for a gold trading firm that's about 200-300 people in size. While I've been over here I have heard that westerners get paid significantly more ($150k as an analyst) and it is easier to secure a job. Is this true or just a myth/pre-crisis situation? Thanks.
Assume you are a white dude. My 8 years of experience in Hong Kong is forcing me to tell you that leverage your internship to get your first full time in the us. It’s not about pre-crisis or not; it’s about mainland Chinese firms taking over everyone, whether it’s banks or trading houses or asset management firms etc. your 150k number is nothing compared to if you pick a wrong start and then find it hard to correct course. For sure if you like Hong Kong or Asia in general, come back later as an associate or VP. I advise against starting as analyst outside US.
I agree with Dollarkeeps raining, the expatriot status in Hong Kong is forever changing. Before, foreigners with a western educational background brings value added to HK and Asian Firms, but since the inception of an internationalised educational structure, plenty of locals with a deep understanding of local cultures are able to take the best from both worlds. Hence you see all the western bulge bracket banks loosing almost all chinese businesses to local and Chinese banks. Being a HK/Mainland Chinese student in the UK, I really do see a big hit in the expat population in HK in the immediate future
you also have to remember that although HK pay may be lower, it's tax free...TAX FREE. So someone who makes $400,000 in the US takes home $200,000 in employment income yet to make that amount in HK you only need a gross $200,000 because you take home everything!!! HK experience is generally discounted in the US however with the exception of senior leadership levels and banking groups with more dealflow.
Hong Kong ECM vs US ECM (Originally Posted: 06/03/2016)
I will be joining an ECM team in Hong Kong as a 1 yr monkey. Can someone shed some lights on the difference of work between the ECM deck in Hong Kong and that in New York? Particularly if any skills I learned from the HK market can be transferable to NYC, if my plan is to move to NYC in 2-3 years.
Historically my team has a strong focus on big Chinese SOEs listing in HK main board and convertible bonds across Asia (ex-Japan). And I expect that continues on.
bump
ECM on Chinese companies is an adventure in completely made up numbers.
Due diligence is a joke.
You: The chairman's Ph.D is from a non accredited degree farm run out of a post office box in Texas
Director: Sei gweilo! Ligo gongsi bei ngohdhei ho kiu doh chin.
You: OK, so I just ignore these issues? What if David Webb does an piece on this IPO? Or the SFC has an issue...
Director: Ju tao beng! Dim gai ngoh yau ligo gweilo ah? Ho kiu sai hei! Ham gar chan! Dai lo yan bei ngohdhei chin, dim gai leih dan sum ah?
You: OK, I guess I'll just overlook this...
Something about being a foreigner and not knowing how business is done in Hong Kong?
Something about why waste your time by worrying?
Goddamn foreigner! This company is giving us shit loads of money.
Dumbass! Why do I even have this foreigner here? frickin waste my time! Screw this sh*t! The chinese mainlanders are paying us, why the heck are you worrying?
Working in HK vs. the US (Originally Posted: 11/28/2011)
I know that many international students want to stay in America to work after graduation, mainly because of the higher income and additional experience I believe.
I am an international student from Hong Kong. I was wondering how income compares in terms of HK vs. LA vs. NY, and what advantages could I have in working in the states for a couple years first vs. going straight back to Hong Kong?
Since it is considerably harder to get a job here in the states, should I not waste time networking here and instead concentrate all my time on networking with people in Hong Kong?
I'm international - couple yrs of experience in the US is really helpful so definitely try to work your way into a summer/full time offer here. Although HK is a strong, developed market, I would argue that the diversity of deals you see in the US and the exposure you receive here as a result beats out experience anywhere, especially at a junior entry level.
Why this decision may be hard for you is because, on a compensation basis you'll definitely take home more in HK coz of tax structure. if you're in NYC, consider ~50% of your bonus wiped out. However, I think you stand to benefit more long-term because of what you bring to the table once you return to the homeland. Easy way to figure out an answer to this question is talk to people who've gone back directly to HK and also those who've stuck it out here for a couple yrs atleast before moving back.
Second johndoe89's comments. One thing to be careful is that recruiting for HK office is about school brand. So if you don't go to one of those target schools, it is much harder to break in.
I have heard that before. I go to USC, not a target school but with a strong presence in HK. What do you think my chances are? And is networking much less effective in HK compared to in the US?
How about from the other side? US student looking to get into I-banking in a foreign market? I'm at a target school but am not sure my grades and experiences are enough to get an internship at a decent I-bank in the US. Furthermore how would someone who spent their first two years in I-banking in HK be looked at for MBA programs or other exit ops back in the states?
Quaneaser - i don't think MBA programs will look at you unfavorably because you have international experience, infact it would probably help you stand out. Can't speak much more to that - however, as a US student trying to get into i-banking abroad, make sure you can establish a very strong connection/ties to the location/culture you're applying to. A lot of places outside the US don't really understand the two-and-out program and they want to make sure you're committed to sticking around in the region for a bit (even if you're not, need to fake it well).
experience in NYC trumps everything
bump
I think the notion that experience in NY trumps everything is a bit dated. I know a bunch of bankers who were laughed at by their peers for leaving London/NY for Asia 5-10 years ago because it was perceived to be a second tier market. Now the same guys are calling them up, desperate to have a piece of the pie after the layoffs in Europe and the US.
If you're long Asia, then why bother doing an analyst stint in the US first? If you're at a reputable/international shop, your pay will be similar or higher to the US counterpart with a 15% tax rate versus 40+% (your 70k now looks more like 100k...).
I personally started in New York before moving to Asia so I might have a somewhat biased view. I think the argument that the NY experience will teach you all sorts of skills and complex techniques which will make you valuable in Asia is not nearly as strong as some might like you to believe. The level of professionalism and corporate governance is certainly higher (and useful), but a lot of the deal complexity is a result of tax/compliance/regulatory requirements which frankly aren't relevant outside the US.
Kingb - you have a valid point but I agree with you only to an extent because it's really based on your circumstances. If he's a US citizen whose probably gonna come back to the US anyway, the tax/compliance/regulatory BS is actually going to be very relevant. However, if he's a local from one of those countries and his end goal is to just stick it out in Asia for as long as possible, I'll agree there's no point of his being in NYC.
just re-read he's international from Hong Kong. Regardless, I've had experience working in Asia before and I'd still rather pick NYC than starting out there immediately.
It seems like you changed your mind as to recommending me to go for NYC or asia straight away. So as someone who will probably be working in Asia for most of my life, do you think the effort it takes to try to work in NYC first is worth it?
I didn't change my mind - i just said I re-read that you're an international from Hong Kong, and said that regardless I would still start work in NYC. Btw you may be underestimating how difficult it is to get into HK - although there may be lesser people applying, it's also a smaller market so there are fewer opportunities out there(unless of course you're one of those with family connections which then is a completely different story).
As I mentioned, I've had experience working in Asia, and I find working in the US much more exciting, atleast at an entry level. Just my 2c buddy, personal preferences are important.
I'm the opposite route. I'm a US native looking to start in US for 2-3 years then transition to HK before b-school. Seems like it would make for an attractive candidate at Top 10's.
Depending on your background and goals, starting off in Hong Kong right after graduation may also offer you the first-mover advantage. It will also be increasingly difficult for "US natives" to break into Asia in the future.
Relocation to US or Hong Kong (Originally Posted: 10/17/2006)
I have 1 more year til graduation and will intern at one of the BB in Australia for summer. Just wondering where people think is the best place to start out or work for a few years ~ whether US or HK BB offices will provide better training grounds? I hear once you become more senior / relationship banker, it's harder to relocate. But eventually I'm hoping to stay in Asia. Thanks guys..
i hear hk hours but ny bankers to shame
if you want to stay in asia, get asia experience. Come to Hong Kong. If you're chinese and can speak mandarin, even better.
they speak english & cantonese in HK
no they do not speak mandarin in HK. however, there are so many deals with mainland china like H ipos that it is almost essential you know how to speak mandarin. in ib or law anyway. thanks for answering to everyone...
Wasting Time: Keep your fucking attitude in check and stop acting like a fucking douchebag on the forum. If you don't agree, state your views by all means, but respect other people's contributions.
You remind me of danbush.
Get your bearings right, you dimwit fucking useless piece of douchebag. I am referring to your comment about chinese national not trusting a westerner to conduct deals in Chinese. My VP did just that. You are really fucking wasting my time. And stop creating havoc in the other forum topics.
Trying to get into PWM ain't you. With your kind of social skills, FUCK OFF.
Wasting Time you're a fucking faggot who goes to some no-name dogshit school hoping to score a gig investment banking while getting shit grades in a class as easy-as-goddamn-fuck as Accounting. The fact that you've posted almost 200 times on a forum that's not even that active tells me that you either have no life or are seriously trying to compensate for your goddamn pathetic academic inadequacies. I'd tell you to kill yourself, but I have a feeling that the crushing failure you'll inevitably experience would be more fitting for a pompous faggot like yourself.
And for the record, of the six people I know who work in Hong Kong, four are white.
Listen up faggot (yes you wasting fucking time). I interned in HK over this summer and my VP's an american who transferred over from NYC 4 yrs back. He's been actively learning mandarin for the past 4 yrs and he's just as involved in any chinese deals as anyone of us.
You really remind me of danbush.
Jamesbraddock-
Would you mind if I ask which bank in HK you were at? How did you like HK?
I heard HK hours are horrible. One of my friends works from 7-12pm/2am everyday! And i think its not even a BB and just a boutique.
Executive Director in HK vs US? (Originally Posted: 09/06/2008)
What's the rank of an Executive Director in HK equivalent to in the U.S.? Senior VP? How much of an influence does this position have in helping someone obtain a SA position?
Executive Director is the equivalent of an SVP
I believe Morgan Stanley for example has the rank of Executive Director after Vice President. It depends on the firm, not the region.
And I also believe that higher-ups can set up an interview for you, but they won't just give you a job (an SA is almost equivalent to a job offer these days). That could result in a anti-meritocracy with possibly incompetent (or less competent) employees.
At my firm this summer executive director was right above VP and right below MD.
Bearing, which firm are you referring to?
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