Want the Secrets to Succeed on Wall Street?

Points)

on 2/2/12 at 4:35pm

No need to splooge over these salary numbers. They are in-line (if not slightly inflated) for salaries for top comp sci geeks at the top Silicon Valley companies (which includes Google, Apple, Oracle, etc). And these are entry-level numbers, which should stay reletivley flat over the long-term. You undergrads and recent grads might be thinking "OMFG 100K fapfapfapfapfapfap splooge", but there's a lot more to a meaningful career/life outside of your entry-level salary. And Silicon Valley is over flowing with wannabe entreprenuers who were at the early stages of a once-upon-a-time hot-shit start-up.

I have a family member who joined MSFT back in 1999, remember those days? He bought a brand new Porsche and 15K rolex when he was 24. Now he has a wife, 2.5 kids w/dog, has a nice home in the suburbs, and drives a Prius (not by choice).

Man made money, money never made the man

RE Capital Markets wrote: No

Ravenous

(Senior Gorilla, 911

Points)

on 2/2/12 at 4:49pm

RE Capital Markets:

No need to splooge over these salary numbers. They are in-line (if not slightly inflated) for salaries for top comp sci geeks at the top Silicon Valley companies (which includes Google, Apple, Oracle, etc). And these are entry-level numbers, which should stay reletivley flat over the long-term. a meaningful career/life outside of your entry-level salary. And Silicon Valley is over flowing with wannabe entreprenuers who were at the early stages of a once-upon-a-time hot-shit start-up.

I have a family member who joined MSFT back in 1999, remember those days? He You undergrads and recent grads might be thinking "OMFG 100K fapfapfapfapfapfap splooge", but there's a lot more to bought a brand new Porsche and 15K rolex when he was 24. Now he has a wife, 2.5 kids w/dog, has a nice home in the suburbs, and drives a Prius (not by choice).

fapfapfapfap

hahahahahahaha

Your point is spot on though.

Being in the tech industry

go.with.the.flow

(King Kong, 1,120

Points)

on 2/2/12 at 5:02pm

Being in the tech industry atm, I can vouch that salaries here for engineers are between 100k-150k . But, you will most probably be stuck here if you dont go for a PMP or PMI. Anyways, fuck it..back to work....

|| Everything to Gain - Nothing to Lose ||

But feeling good and enjoying life are prerequisites to success, not by products of it - Midas Mulligan Magoo

RE Capital Markets wrote: He

(King Kong, 1,586

Points)

on 2/2/12 at 5:01pm

RE Capital Markets:

He bought a brand new Porsche and 15K rolex.

I would have to be fucking loooooooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaded before I paid 15k for a watch

If your dreams don't scare you, then they are not big enough.

"There are two types of people in this world: People who say they pee in the shower, and dirty fucking liars."-Louis C.K.

My college buddy who

(Gorilla, 703

Points)

on 2/2/12 at 5:13pm

My college buddy who graduated last year from Cornell in CS major got a job at a top tech firm as a programmer (think Facebook, Google, Amazon, Youtube, or Cisco).

He got 140k starting salary, 50k sign bonus, and 120k year-end stock bonus. And, he works 45-50 hours a week on max, gets subsidized housing for his apartment, free gym membership, and other perks. Needless to say, he fucking loves his job. He told me his job is interesting, intellectually stimulating, and he feels like his job is meaningful.

You may make similar money in banking, but it's going to be much more painful. In banking, the level of stress is far higher, insane hours, 'up or out' structure, arguably very boring nature of work (you are an excel/ powerpoint monkey as an analyst), and not to mention that the vast majority of people in banking won't make it past associate-level where they start to make true big bucks. (let's face it - even most analysts are gone from IB after 2 years, so burnout rate/ turnover rate in IB is far higher than in CS)

I would argue that a CS major at a good program is the best possible degree you could get. True, CS is a hard major, but it's not necessarily more difficult than physics, electrical engineering, or pre-med.

And, LOL at people who say salary for top programmers at top tech firms are capped at 150k. Most of ballers in SF or Silicon Valley are top programmers at top firms, or entrepreneurs from programming backgrounds.

atomic wrote: - but a

Thurnis Haley

(Senior Baboon, 241

Points)

on 2/2/12 at 5:18pm

atomic:

- but a Software Engineer IV at a Tech company isn't worth a whole lot more than a Software Engineer II, and that shows in their compensation. Even if you're the best damn developer at the company, at a certain point, how much are you going to be compensated for the marginal boost in efficiency you provide?

Have you ever even programmed in your life? Finding a great software engineer is extremely rare. The most efficient ones are incredibly hard to replace. There's a huge difference between a code monkey from India and a veteran American software engineer. Most CS graduates are incompetent at programming. See: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2007/02/why-cant-programmers-program.html. The best software engineers are paid very well for 40-50 hour workweeks and can pretty much switch companies on a whim.
Seriously, you guys need to stick with finance because that's all you know. To think that you know jackshit about software just because you're in IB is complete insanity.

this isn't new - 2 of my

(King Kong, 1,012

Points)

on 2/2/12 at 5:20pm

this isn't new - 2 of my friends had base salary offers of $105k from Microsoft straight out of undergrad, and that was 12 years ago. $40k signing bonus, $20k relo, plus stock option grants. I know Microsoft is old hat today, but in the late 90's it was similar to how landing a gig at Google / Facebook is today.

getting your hands on a talented software engineer is far more valuable than getting your hands on some purebred finance kid from wharton.

Thurnis Haley

(Gorilla, 703

Points)

on 2/2/12 at 5:20pm

Thurnis Haley:

Seriously, you guys need to stick with finance because that's all you know. To think that you know jackshit about software just because you're in IB is complete insanity.

Agreed.

I love when people say 'BUT I-bankers have greater career upshot and you could make 1 million + a year when you make MD, so fuck CS majors and fuck programmers at Facebook!"

Right, but good luck making it all the way to the MD level. In fact, most of you won't even come close.

I dunno, my CS professor says

(King Kong, 1,586

Points)

on 2/2/12 at 5:20pm

I dunno, my CS professor says he knows programmers that make ~200-300k but I couldn't imagine it getting that much higher unless you're an absolute baller (or a quant), so there's def more money to be made in finance if you're great at your job... coming from a hopeful programmer. 100k + 45-50 hour work weeks = pretty damn good either way

If your dreams don't scare you, then they are not big enough.

"There are two types of people in this world: People who say they pee in the shower, and dirty fucking liars."-Louis C.K.

Thurnis Haley wrote: atomic

protectedclass

(Orangutan, 272

Points)

on 2/2/12 at 5:23pm

Thurnis Haley:

atomic:

You are exactly right.

Sexy_Like_Enrique wrote: My

Points)

on 2/2/12 at 5:24pm

Sexy_Like_Enrique:

My college buddy who graduated last year from Cornell in CS major got a job at a top tech firm as a programmer (think Facebook, Google, Amazon, Youtube, or Cisco).

I have a friend, too. he went to an Ivy league school. He is a leprechaun with a little bucket of gold. He tells me to burn things.

Your friend lied to you. That comp figure is so outside the norm even for a top MBA grad. 50K siging bonus for an undergrad? Oh please.

Man made money, money never made the man

Thurnis Haley wrote: Most CS

(King Kong, 1,586

Points)

on 2/2/12 at 5:33pm

Thurnis Haley:

Most CS graduates are incompetent at programming. See: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2007/02/why-cant-programmers-program.html.

Write a program that prints the numbers from 1 to 100. But for multiples of three print "Fizz" instead of the number and for the multiples of five print "Buzz". For numbers which are multiples of both three and five print "FizzBuzz".

... k, I'm pretty sure I could do this and I haven't taken my first programming exam yet, do they just forget the basics or something?

RE Capital Markets:

I have a friend, too. he went to an Ivy league school. He is a leprechaun with a little bucket of gold. He tells me to burn things.

Whoa, pretty sweet gig. He had to have went to Harvard, right?

ps I love all the tech talk on this site of all sites... especially because somebody's putting them on the front page haha

If your dreams don't scare you, then they are not big enough.

"There are two types of people in this world: People who say they pee in the shower, and dirty fucking liars."-Louis C.K.

Sexy_Like_Enrique

Thurnis Haley

(Senior Baboon, 241

Points)

on 2/2/12 at 5:38pm

Sexy_Like_Enrique:

Thurnis Haley:

Seriously, you guys need to stick with finance because that's all you know. To think that you know jackshit about software just because you're in IB is complete insanity.

Agreed.

I love when people say 'BUT I-bankers have greater career upshot and you could make 1 million + a year when you make MD, so fuck CS majors and fuck programmers at Facebook!"

Right, but good luck making it all the way to the MD level. In fact, most of you won't even come close.

I have a friend at Cornell who's a CS major. She made about $40k/year in high school making a website with MySpace codes.

scottj19x89 wrote: I dunno,

(King Kong, 1,012

Points)

on 2/2/12 at 5:38pm

scottj19x89:

It gets higher when you start your own company, and thousands of CS guys do that (i.e. the truly talented engineers that know their worth). Think of it terms of ratios or proportions. How many kids across the world that get a Finance degree end up as MD at Goldman, or whatever it takes to crank $1M++ in that world? My guess is that the % of CS grads that break $1M in income / liquid assets early in life (whether they started their own shit, or were early on developers at M$, Google, Facebook, etc) is larger than the % of Finance grads that do the same.

I have no data to back up my guess, so flame my post with that in mind. And either way, almost all CS people are only fit for mid level Java programmer jobs, and almost all Finance people are only fit for mid level analyst gigs. It's the rare exception that stands out in either field. We forget that around here, because everyone on this board wipes their ass with Harvard acceptance letters.

RE Capital Markets

(Gorilla, 703

Points)

on 2/2/12 at 5:45pm

RE Capital Markets:

Sexy_Like_Enrique:

My college buddy who graduated last year from Cornell in CS major got a job at a top tech firm as a programmer (think Facebook, Google, Amazon, Youtube, or Cisco).

I have a friend, too. he went to an Ivy league school. He is a leprechaun with a little bucket of gold. He tells me to burn things.

Your friend lied to you. That comp figure is so outside the norm even for a top MBA grad. 50K siging bonus for an undergrad? Oh please.

I go to Cornell. At Cornell, we have a bunch of CS majors, since it is a big CS/ engineering school. I specifically know 3 kids who graduated last year with CS degree, and know several more still in school.

100k+ salary with 50k+ sign bonus is the norm for CS majors. Another kid I know who got a job at a no-name start-up firm in SF as a programmer is making over 150k straight out of college, and he doesn't even work at a top tech firm like Facebook or Apple.

Get your fact straight.

I wanted to switch to CS major, knowing the incredible job market / demand for CS majors. I am an Econ major. However, I knew that I didn't have the brains to survive the rigorous CS major. My ex-roommate switched to CS major from Econ and he got kicked out of Cornell due to having like 4 F's in a semester. After seeing this, I got scared away from going into CS major since I suck at math/ science, and I thought I must suck balls at CS. CS is no joke, and people who go through CS and get high paying jobs deserve what they're making.

djfiii wrote: We forget that

(King Kong, 1,586

Points)

on 2/2/12 at 5:48pm

djfiii:

We forget that around here, because everyone on this board wipes their ass with Harvard acceptance letters.

Ah, Harvard... the University of Michigan of the East. You know what I'm sayin djfiii...

Sexy_Like_Enrique:

I am an Econ major. However, I knew that I didn't have the brains to survive the rigorous CS major. My ex-roommate switched to CS major from Econ and he got kicked out of Cornell due to having like 4 F's in a semester. After seeing this, I got scared out of going into CS major

You said this in another thread and it makes me really wish you wouldn't have let one person's experience get to you that badly... some people just excel at certain subjects. My problem class was intro to chemistry, not because it was hard, but because it was boring as HELL and I couldn't find one single fuck to give about anything for that class... not one. I still did pretty good, but if I cared AT ALL about what a solution of hydrochloric acid and silver produce, I could've aced that shit... even if our chemistry department decided not to give us the answers to our second exam or let us see them before the final (wtf?)

If your dreams don't scare you, then they are not big enough.

"There are two types of people in this world: People who say they pee in the shower, and dirty fucking liars."-Louis C.K.

scottj19x89 wrote: Write a

(King Kong, 1,012

Points)

on 2/2/12 at 5:48pm

scottj19x89:

... k, I'm pretty sure I could do this and I haven't taken my first programming exam yet, do they just forget the basics or something?

that's monkey shit. simply solving a problem programmatically doesn't make one a software engineer. doing it with efficient algorithms is the hallmark of a great software engineer.

Yeah I know, but in the

(King Kong, 1,586

Points)

on 2/2/12 at 5:50pm

Yeah I know, but in the article it says that a lot of cs majors can't write that program... which just seems weird

If your dreams don't scare you, then they are not big enough.

"There are two types of people in this world: People who say they pee in the shower, and dirty fucking liars."-Louis C.K.

Another important piece of

(Gorilla, 703

Points)

on 2/2/12 at 5:55pm

Another important piece of information people seem to be forgetting here is that a job as a programmer at a top firm is arguably much more meaningful, interesting, and fulfilling than a typical banking job.

You feel valued by company, you create value, you develop your specific niche skill set as a programmer, and you have options to branch out your skill set and network into a start up in tech sector. There are lots of opportunities in CS.

As an I-banking analyst, you are nothing more than a glorified Excel data-entry slut. Even if you work at GS IBD, you are deemed to be VERY replaceable, and a typical banker lasts less than 3-4 years in IB after which many go into corporate finance where the comp is significantly lower than in IB. The work you do as an IB analyst is no where as interesting/ meaningful/ stimulating as what you would do as a programmer at a top tech firm.

I am not shitting on banking. I do think that banking is the best gig you can get with a liberal arts/ business/ econ degree. However, it pales in comparison to a CS major getting a top programming job at a strong tech start up or an established firm like Facebook, in many dimensions.

actually, feel free to shit

(King Kong, 1,012

Points)

on 2/2/12 at 5:52pm

actually, feel free to shit on banking. I do it all the time on this board. It's a bullshit gig.

djfiii wrote: actually, feel

(Gorilla, 703

Points)

on 2/2/12 at 5:58pm

djfiii:

actually, feel free to shit on banking. I do it all the time on this board. It's a bullshit gig.

Most entry level gigs you can get with a liberal arts/ econ/ business degree are bullshit. At least banking pays top dollars, but yeah the nature of the work is retarded.

Sexy_Like_Enrique wrote: RE

http://www.glassdoor.com/GD/Salary/Facebook-Software-Engineer-Salaries-E...

Points)

on 2/2/12 at 5:58pm

Sexy_Like_Enrique:

RE Capital Markets:

Sexy_Like_Enrique:

My college buddy who graduated last year from Cornell in CS major got a job at a top tech firm as a programmer (think Facebook, Google, Amazon, Youtube, or Cisco).

I have a friend, too. he went to an Ivy league school. He is a leprechaun with a little bucket of gold. He tells me to burn things.

Your friend lied to you. That comp figure is so outside the norm even for a top MBA grad. 50K siging bonus for an undergrad? Oh please.

Get your fact straight.

Impressive. Your three anonymous anecdotal data points are...simply overwhelming.

Here are about 125 data points to consider:

Here are 1,415 more:

http://www.glassdoor.com/GD/Salary/Google-Software-Engineer-Salaries-E90...

What about over the long-term? How much would a top computer geek make with significant exp? Here you go:

http://www.glassdoor.com/GD/Salary/Google-Software-Engineer-Salaries-E90...

Man made money, money never made the man

scottj19x89 wrote: Yeah I

http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/6...

(King Kong, 1,012

Points)

on 2/2/12 at 6:00pm

scottj19x89:

Yeah I know, but in the article it says that a lot of cs majors can't write that program... which just seems weird

if you're just getting started in CS at UMich, I highly recommend you take a little of your free time and go through the MIT Intro to Algorithms course @ OpenCourseWare:

Getting your arms around that stuff in advance of taking the class will help you in every other CS class you take.

scottj19x89 wrote: djfiii

(Gorilla, 703

Points)

on 2/2/12 at 6:07pm

scottj19x89:

djfiii:

We forget that around here, because everyone on this board wipes their ass with Harvard acceptance letters.

Ah, Harvard... the University of Michigan of the East. You know what I'm sayin djfiii...

Sexy_Like_Enrique:

Yeah, but I suck at math and science, and I even struggled with basic intro AP Calculus BC course back in high school. I know that I am not the smartest guy out there. I know who I am, so I stayed the fuck out of CS major, although I wanted to give it a shot.

When I saw my ex-roommate getting 4 Fs and 1 D after switching to CS (he was also required to take physics and high level math to switch into CS, which were all very difficult), I thought that I would get fucking raped in the ass if I try to switch into CS. My ex-roommate was a typical jock white frat dude with average intelligence and decent work ethic who wasn't best with math/ science, and he got murdered in intro CS/ physics courses, even before getting to upper level CS courses.

If I did have the brains to survive CS major, hell I would have majored in it. CS/ Physics/ Math/ Chem E/ Electrical Engineering are the types of majors that require very high IQ and no matter how hard you try, if you're dumb you won't likely get through with decent GPA.

If you aren't heavily math

(King Kong, 1,012

Points)

on 2/2/12 at 6:07pm

If you aren't heavily math inclined, CS would crush you, especially at a good school where they move quickly. You made the right choice. A lot of things are assumed (matrix math, linear algebra, some advanced calc)

djfiii wrote: scottj19x89

http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/6...

(King Kong, 1,586

Points)

on 2/2/12 at 6:09pm

djfiii:

scottj19x89:

Yeah I know, but in the article it says that a lot of cs majors can't write that program... which just seems weird

if you're just getting started in CS at UMich, I highly recommend you take a little of your free time and go through the MIT Intro to Algorithms course @ OpenCourseWare:

Getting your arms around that stuff in advance of taking the class will help you in every other CS class you take.

Awesome... thanks. I'll be bookmarking this bad boy.

If your dreams don't scare you, then they are not big enough.

"There are two types of people in this world: People who say they pee in the shower, and dirty fucking liars."-Louis C.K.

Everyone on this website

Thurnis Haley

(Senior Baboon, 241

Points)

on 2/2/12 at 6:09pm

Everyone on this website seems to sneeze on making $150k/year as if it's poverty.

djfiii wrote: If you aren't

(Gorilla, 703

Points)

on 2/2/12 at 6:26pm

djfiii:

Yeah, if I switched to CS major, I am pretty sure I would have gotten kicked out of school due to terrible grades.

Were you a CS major? Is CS major harder than physics/ high-end engineering majors in your opinion?

Thurnis Haley wrote: Everyone

Points)

on 2/2/12 at 6:29pm

Thurnis Haley:

Everyone on this website seems to sneeze on making $150k/year as if it's poverty.

I wouldnt sneeze at $150k/yr, that's a good living for anybody. I sneeze at the notion of a CS major making $150k/yr base salary out of college.

Man made money, money never made the man

100k starting sounds right,

Ricqles

(King Kong, 1,230

Points)

on 2/2/12 at 6:34pm

100k starting sounds right, 50k sign on bonus is ok, 5k in relocation is fine. i believe the 120k number was also included in the signed on and doesn't vest until after 3 years.

you do not get 120k every single year based on what i know

it's a great lifestyle with pretty good pay if you are good at programming and you tend to get stuck in the 150k range without moving up.

Sexy_Like_Enrique wrote: Were