Family wants me to go BB over elite boutique offer
This summer I interned at a lower tier BB (Barclays/UBS/DB) in IBD and received a return offer for full time. However I recently shopped the offer and was able to land a FT offer at an elite boutique (think Lazard, Evercore, Moelis). Now I've talked this over with some of my close friends and mentors, and they all said I should definitely go to the elite boutique hands down. However my parents (who are typical fobs) told me to accept the BB offer because they never heard of the elite boutique firm (to them, the EB sound like some no-name firm), and therefore think the BB is more prestigious and will open more doors.
Culture-wise I liked the people in both my BB IBD group, as well as those I've met with at the EB. Compensation-wise, the EB pays more, but then again, it'd be really short-sighted of me to make a FT decision based on analyst-level salary (I'd be earning above six-figures all-in anyway in either firm).
The main problem for me is that my parents paid 100% of my undergraduate tuition ($200k+) and therefore they feel like they have a say on where I should be entering post-graduation. Likewise, I also feel obliged to respect their requests because after all, 200k is not a small amount of money, especially taking into account that my family is not that rich and sacrificed so much to send me to school (yes, a typical asian family).
What should I do, I'm really confused and need to make a decision soon. Please help me out here...
Go with the EB, but make sure your parents know about what your mentors and friends say. Show them the deals they've done, show them where analysts have gone after, etc. to convince them. They have a say in where you should go, but they'll also be the ones telling you to stay at Barclays instead of moving to KKR or Apollo in 2 years because Apollo is a no name firm and Barclays will open more doors, and you'll be in the exact same situation even if you go with the BB.
As above, find ways to show them that the EB is a better option (one example is that Lazard is often higher than bbs on global league tables) and will not put you at a disadvantage
Similar to what @"throwaway111" said. Sit them down, explain to them the IB landscape, go through the BB / EB / MM / boutique structure, and then start discussing exit opps from each. Explain how this will give you the best chance for a MF or an elite private equity offer. Chances are they haven't heard of the MF's if they don't know the elite boutiques. Definitely take the elite boutique though. Congrats!
Not something that's ever really occurred to me as a huge issue because of the longevity of (most) banks etc, but maybe you can point them in the direction of legal troubles/layoffs affecting your bank if applicable as another counterpoint to their argument
And make sure they know job wise prestige etc is only really relevant to those in the industry and to those people the EB wins
I would choose whichever you think best. You can walk your parents through your reasoning but ultimately it should be your decision. As a soon to be 6 figure earning adult you can now own your own choices :)
PS I say this as someone who has gone through a similar thing with my parents who didnt like some of my job choices. Ultimately you have to do whats right for you as you are the one who has to live with the consequences.
Maybe act like the adult you are and make the decision you want?
Go with the Elite Boutique. There's no doubt about it. I would frame it to your parents in terms they can relate to. My approach is rather simple. I'm fond of the: Bulge Bracket Bank XYZ is a great firm and has fantastic name recognition, but Elite Boutique Bank ABC is much stronger in a particular area (whichever group is your first choice) and it's best to work and learn from the best in the business to succeed.
The other thing is, you can discuss the pedigree of the firm you got the offer with and frame it with respect to how the founders honed their skills from the best in the business and brought over the most talented guys in the room from banks X, Y and Z. Working with these guys, let alone learning from them, would help me more than working at the Bulge Bracket Bank ever would.
Sounds like a real problem you got there.
LOL! Another WSO instant classic.
Seriously, fuck your parents. It's your life and you need to grow a set and make the decisions.
maybe don't show them this thread
Show them this thread.
This thread was made pretty recently, but plenty of people will respond telling you to take the EB over the BB. From the outside looking in, I can see why your parents would prefer a known commodity (BB) over some company they've never heard of (EB), but if you can help them understand that the EB is a known commodity within finance, that should satisfy what they're looking for. This thread would give a pure unbiased view at how a finance community views the EB vs the BB
This is a dumb question.
Do what you want. You're an adult.
Are you going to let your parents choose which hooker you bang Saturday night as well? Come on man, I don't know how people can get to this point in life and still require their parents to make all their decisions for them.
Yup sounds like a typical Asian family with the obsession on prestige. Accept the boutique, your parents will likely have their doubts your entire first year until you get your bonus, then they'll start to come around once they realize its legit.
OP: Are you a virgin?
Everytime I hear about Asian cultures and the power that parents have over their even grown children I'm thankful that I'm not from that culture, and I don't mean that in a horrible racist way. While I completely agree that you should do what you want to do and the EB is probably the better option, I don't think many of the people on here understand the dynamics in Asian families. I have an Indian friend who came here when he was something like 5, both of his parents are doctors and he's as American as apple pie and the 4th of July but after college they had set up an arranged marriage with a girl in India, something that he knew about but always thought it was more of a joke but to his parents it wasn't at all. He just refused to do it and they basically disowned him and for probably more than 5 years he didn't have any contact with them. I've known Chinese guys who have had the same pressure in different aspects of life, although not as extreme as arranged marriage and disowning. I feel for them. It's one thing if you're in the East or South Asian country where it's the norm but when you grow up in the west it has to be really tough.
Like others have, be analytical with them and almost think of it like a presentation. Show the merits of the the EB and the possible exit options. I'd also stress the point that, although it may seem counter intuitive to an outsider, the EB's are actually more stable than some of the BB's you mentioned. If it's actually Barclay's there is so much turmoil going on there that there's a good chance in a 2-3 year program there would be layoffs. I know UBS was having issues in the last few years as well. The European banks are in much more of a state of flux trying to figure out their overall strategy that I'd say there's far more risk with them.
I completely agree with your post though.
Just FYI, I don't doubt that his parents want the best for him, but the other very prevalent trait of Asians (hate to generalize, but its a cultural predisposition) is constant one-ups-manship and dick measuring. Its why they gravitate to brand names, whether its Chanel or Harvard. Its the "my kid goes to Princeton"-factor.
This kids parents aren't dumb enough to think they know anything about Wall Street, most likely they want him to go to Goldman Sachs or JPMorgan because if they tell their dry cleaner friends whose kid is pre-med that their son works at Evercore, the target of their one-ups-manship won't feel shit on.
Do you really think a dry cleaner would know what GS and JPM are about, or for that matter the difference between investment banking and retail banking?
People outside the US, such as Asians and Europeans, tend to trust and respect the large institutions more than the small ones. For examples, EBs are not as coveted in Europe as they are in the US. I think this is the real reason.
It depends on the groups and what you want to do in the future. For example, if you are talking about Houston Oil & Gas IB, IHMO, you probably should take Barclays over any EB.
Do you know what you want to do long-term career-wise? Or short-term after two years? Once you have your goal set, look into the career trajectories of those who came out of these two groups and see which one matches your goal better. At that point, you will be able to make an informed decision. And with that information, you can show your parents how you reach your decision.
If you look into the WSO profiles of those who answered your question so far, most of them are not even in IB. Take these advices with a grain of salt, and do your own research.
Tie this thread in with the are Asian guys attractive to other women thread.
Take the offer you like the most. Your parents are pressuring you based on what they recognize as non finance people. What do they know other than brands they recognize. Explain it to them and if they still don't get it do what is right for you.
They're parents and paid for your college cause they could and wanted to. It isn't blood money.
OP should make his/her decision based on his/her long-term career goal, instead of what other people, financial community or otherwise, say or perceive about prestige. It should be based on sound research, with data to back up the conclusion. Once he/she has done this, it should not be difficult to convince his/her parents of his/her decision.
his/her ... take a hike dude
What are you, an idiot?
How is this even a question, its gotta be a troll.
Follow your parents advice if you want to be doing what they're doing. They're probably small business owners (i.e., are professionally illiterate) or dragon-professionals (e.g., college professors or engineers, i.e., wall street-illiterate). They don't have the qualifications or knowledge required to advise you the merits of one firm vs. the other. Why would you weight their opinion so heavily on something you know they don't know anything about? Atleast they don't know that they don't know, what's your excuse. You know they don't know better, and you're still thinking about following their advice. How stupid can you be.
It also sounds like you're not taking their advice, you're taking their instruction. Be a fucking man, what the hell is the matter with you. They may be Asian, but you're American. Start acting like it, or it doesn't matter which firm you go to, you'll be a fucking nothing.
You don't owe them obedience (you're an adult for god's sake, not a dog)... What you do owe to them is to maximize the opportunities available to you based on the foundation they provided. And in this case that means doing what you know to be best, versus what they falsely think to be best.
[quote=Marcus_HalberstramWhat you do owe to them is to maximize the opportunities available to you based on the foundation they provided. And in this case that means doing what you know to be best, versus what they falsely think to be best.[/quote]
I'm younger than you but take my advice as you wish.
Sure, your parents paid for your education. But once you start that IBD job you will no longer be dependent on them for money
You probably know a hell of a lot more about IBD and financial services companies than either of your parents. So though under most circumstances I would advise to respect the wisdom of your parents, I would bet that they know absolutely nothing finance aside from the laymen name-recognition of some banks.
It's almost like parents forcing you to marry a certain person over another. Neither of them will lose any sleep if you go to Barclays and hate your life for the next 2+ years. You know which place you like better, and you're the one that will live out the consequences. And if they still aren't listening just sign the contract and leave it at that.
Parents should have made a loan to you for your education with a repayment clause based on disobeying them. You'd be able to see real quickly how much a certain choice is important to you when you're faced with repaying that debt.
I was just thinking this...if they really cared about this then they should have made it clear that the money came with strings attached. They didn't so there isn't.
I suppose the BB offer is group-specific since it's a return offer after SA. Is the EB offer group-specific too? You said you like the people at both places. How strong and how is the deal flow at that BB group? You need to look at the group, not just the bank. As I mentioned earlier, if it's Barclays O&G in Houston, take it without looking back.
I do have question (and suspicion) with regard to the timing though. I suppose you just completed your SA and got your return offer. How could you interview with and get the offer from the EB so fast? Can you clarify this if you are not a troll?
I also have question (and suspicion) with regard to the college cost. I suppose your parents are middle class. With student financial aid, it's highly unlikely that your parents would have paid the full price of $200k. Can you clarify this too if you are not a troll?
Not sure if my parents will be moved if I show them a more "impressive" transaction list but you just addressed one of my major concerns - that when I try to move to PE (where my parents will likely never have heard of), I'm afraid that they'll tell me to stay at the BB because the PE firm is a "no-name firm" to them... Thanks for bringing this up, really gave me new perspective on my dilemma.
Thanks for your guidance Frieds. I am currently thinking of how I will structure my "pitch" to my parents and I feel like the structure you stated above will be perfect. Hopefully they bite.
This is exactly how I feel. Having asian parents can be both a blessing and a curse.. Thanks for your point on stability of BB vs. EB, I'll definitely be raising that up (not sure if they'll be convinced though)...
I definitely plan on aiming PE after my IB stint and the group that I interned over during the summer does not have very good PE exits (at least based on looking at the group's analyst placement in the last 2 years). This is why I'm leaning much more towards the EB offer. Lastly, I think someone asked this but both offers are for the New York office (am not comfortable disclosing which firm/group to preserve anonymity)
You know I really wish I could do this but the money and sacrifice my parents went through to put me through school feels just too much for me to flat out ignore them and do as I see fit. An analogy is I right now feel like a CEO trying to enforce a decision that goes against the wills of my financial sponsor (my parents).
Yes I just finished SA and received a return offer. My closest mentors are currently in that EB and have been pulling for me since SA (where I unfortunately did not make it past the superday for SA recruiting), but I have kept in touch with them and the firm all throughout the year and over the summer. I interviewed with them for FT a day after my BB SA officially ended (and received the return offer).
To answer your second request. I attend a university that is known for giving out some of the least amount of financial aid. And the cost of $200k+ includes room & board / food / monthly allowances / new laptop etc. on top of tuition.
Not sure if you're being sarcastic here, but yes my parents recognize DB / BarCap / UBS. And from what I've seen, so do a lot of parents/students who don't necessarily work in finance, but who read the news.
Ok, that's your goal after the IB stint. How about the long term career plan? You do know that most (pre-mba) PE gigs are "two years and out", right? You most likely will have to go to business school and recruit again for post-mba PE roles. You do know that getting a post-mba PE role is very hard even with pre-mba PE experience, and most PE associates don't make it to VP, right? So, staying in PE is atually much harder than breaking into PE. In the very likely scenario that you won't be able to stay in PE long term, even after you break in, what's your backup plan for the long term career?
Did you research the PE exits of the particular EB group, or just rely upon the general perception?
Barclays, UBS, DB are all European banks. How many American middle class families, immigrant or otherwise, have heard about them and can tell them apart from the EBs? If OP is not a troll, please clarify these issues.
I love the request for clarification. Should put together a diligence request list and have him reply in bold Haha.
you made me think of this thread - coincidence?
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/are-asian-men-undesirable
Tell your parents that you ultimately want to end up in PE, and EB is the best road to achieve that goal because of xyz reasons. Shouldn't be harder than that..
There is no way OP's parents can win any one-ups-manship against their friends whose kids are going to medical schools regardless of his choice. Sure, Wall Street Front Office professionals make much more than the medical doctors. But few people know about it. Most people don't even know the differences of FO, MO, and BO of Wall Street jobs.
You are the worst poster on this site; the quality of discussion in any thread you post in takes a complete nosedive. Either offer this kid some legitimate advice pertaining to his original question or don't post. No one in this thread gives a shit about your thoughts on the legitimacy of a pre-MBA PE job. OP congratulations on both offers and do whatever you think will give you the best options going forward.
I have Asian parents in law, so have some sympathy for your situation. The "be American and do what YOU want" makes perfect sense in a whitebread individualist American context, but isn't helpful, sensible or even realistic at all for you.
It is effectively the same as saying "if you can get a better job by being gay, you should just man up and fuck guys".
I agree with those who have told you to tell your parents what your mentors have told you. They will respect that advice as coming from sources of wisdom much more than anything that is perceived as your own view.
Don't lay it all out to them in one go. Sow seeds of the idea and give time to grow before you harvest. Drop comments about various mentors' above over the course of several conversations so your parents feel like they are the ones reconsidering, not you.
The Asian culture I've been up close and personal with (Chinese) is full of familial obligation. It's a system where people define their sense of self heavily in relation to their family.
For other aspects, cf organised marriages and things like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_marriage_market
Kids saying "it's MY decision" or "what about ME?" didn't happen in earlier generations, although it's increasing now with Western influence.
Second generation kids with FOB parents grow up with this and its a large part of their base operating system, although they also straddle the two cultures and feel the conflict.
It's not just a case of case of acting against your parents wishes and then waiting patiently for them to come around and understand you were right.
Going against your parents wishes can have huge psychological damage, even for second gen kids. It involves going against something which your fundamental operating system tells you is WRONG WRONG WRONG. Depending how fobby your parents are, it can also involve saying goodbye to a happy family environment that is a fundamental part of your happiness.
Telling someone to ignore part of their psychology that screams WRONG WRONG WRONG is not helpful. If you can't see the analogies here to how you'd feel conflicted allowing a penis up your bottom just to advance other interests, you need to think more empathetically.
If it helps - think of a situation where you stole $10,000 from your employer and only you and your parents knew. Assuming you and your parents have reasonably standard values, would you and your parents not feel a lot of shame and disappointment that would do huge damage to your relationship? The impact of that sort of breach of values is similar to what's involved here.
I come from an asian family but thankfully we're pretty well adjusted to societal "norms" in America.
My best advice? Stop being a pusscake and make your own decisions. If you let your parents decide where you're going to work, they'll end up controlling pretty much everything you do in the future.
Seriously. Tighten the fuck up, be a man and make your own decisions.
what do you mean by family wants? you're the only one to decide.
The only caveat I'd add here is that the devil you know is better than the devil you don't. You're giving up the fact that you may have liked your group at the BB for a group you may not like as much.
If it's DB vs some EB, and you liked your group, or at least did not hate them and are somewhat risk averse, maybe your parents could be right albeit for the wrong reasons.
Barclays, UBS you say? Show them how many people they laid off in the past two years, show them all the settlements they had to do for criminal charges, etc.
You don't have to go against your parents' advice, it's stupid in the long run and, honestly, why would you harm somebody that genuinely cares for you like mommy and daddy. Rather, change their opinion; it should be easy for you, as you have that much more information than they do, and you can selectively disclose it to them. They should be positive that yours is a very informed choice, and if they are, they will be on your side no matter what.
Also, remember not to complain about the long hours / the shitty bonus / whatever in the future, otherwise you're gonna trigger the "See, I told you" argument. :)
More likely it's DB vs. Moelis, IMHO. If you were OP, which one would you pick? DB or Moelis?
I'm writing this in my car at the traffic light in Africa where a shoe-less kid is begging for change at my window. Just saying.
Not sure about DB - pretty sure the EB is Evercore, as the accelerated first round was 8/8 (the day that most internships ended) and the superday was the following week.
Compared to the BBs listed, Evercore would be the clear choice. Tell your parents that managing directors have been fleeing BBs to join Evercore, and show them the LinkedIn profiles of the people who have joined the firm in the past as analysts.
But OP seemed to imply he had only one interview, and through his own connection. I would still say it's more likely to be Moelis
And OP's post was on 8/15 early in the morning. Not likely to be Evercore timing-wise. .
the only post worth listening to is @"Marcus_Halberstram".
Your parents are narcissists, which common among asian cultures but not exclusive. It's laughable that WSO comments how important people skills are when half this thread shows otherwise. Your parents are not going to listen to reason, despite the fact they are probably educated, because it's also evident they're insecure since they don't think you'll make it as far without the brand name.
You need to wake up and realize that these prestige whoring assholes are probably a house of cards emotionally, and you need to separate yourself as soon as possible. You also need to wake up and realize any "gift" from them will need to be "repaid". Stop being their spoiled little puppet because you're just going to continue this cycle of pussywhip
Here's what you do. You tell them you respectfully decline - you don't explain your decision beyond that it's your fucking choice. They are gonna start freaking the fuck out and saying that you've disgraced the family, that your some worthless shit who could never make it without them. But this is good, because you'll see their other side, and hopefully realize that some distance between you and them is for the better.
Fuck them! Fuck 'em! Parents don't like the life you lead? 'Fuck you, Mom and Dad.' See how it feels when you're makin' their fuckin' Lexus payments.
IMHO, it's highly unlikely either Lazard or Evercore would give out an FT offer with just one interview. The remaining possibility is Moelis. Between DB and Moelis, how would the posters in this thread pick if you were OP?
In a way it seems like you've already sort of answered your own question about what to do, since they are "fob" if you claim, then they probably don't understand the banking landscape as some have mentioned above. Sit them down and run through what exactly your thought process is behind the decision. After all, if they paid so much for you to go to school, it would be a waste if you ended up somewhere that you weren't completely satisfied with.
I would choose one of the M&A advisory shops (or "elite boutiques" if you insist on calling them that). Your parents probably want you to choose the bulge bracket firm because they are worried about losing face at dinner parties when other people ask them what their son does.
"Oh, my son works at Barclays/UBS" might be met with a nod, whereas "My son works at Evercore/Lazard" might be met with blank stares (unless the person was also in the industry).
Honestly, depending on the crowd, even Barclay/UBS might be met with blank stares. You would be surprised at how ignorant the average American is about the financial services industry. I've come across people in life (usually while playing poker in casinos, one of the only times I interact with people from much lower socio-economic backgrounds) who recognize names that have significant retail presence (e.g. Bank of America, Citi, Wells Fargo), but when I mentioned Morgan Stanley they were like "What's that? Sounds like a law firm..."
Haha, yeah I am thinking the only reason these people might have heard of Barclays is because they slapped their name on the Nets arena.
"Hey Mom and Dad, I understand why you'd like me to join DB/UBS/DGAF, but the offer at EB is better and will lead to more opportunities down the road, so I'm taking it."
How hard is that? I swear, the parent/son/daughter relationships on this website are so fucking weird.
It really is absurd how much influence parents can have in Asian culture. My gf's father's mother passed away a couple years ago, but made him promise that he would visit her grave every year on a specific date. He's going to do so again this year, even though it would mean potentially missing an important event of his daughter's. Even in death, Asian parents somehow still have a strangle hold on their kids. It's completely irrational.
Consider this: when asked what their regrets were, the number one regret of the dying was "I wish I’d had the courage to live a life true to myself, not the life others expected of me."
Again, you're going to be working 100 hours/week with these people. You can have a great career starting at Evercore; you can have a great career starting at UBS. The question is how do you make it to 730 days/ 11,000 hours? You are more likely to make it to 730 days with people who are nice to work with.
I had a friend quit Lazard after six months because he hated it. 6 months of Lazard on your résumé does you absolutely no good if you're trying to get a job that "sucks less". Fortunately my friend networked his butt off and is doing business development for tech startups.
If it's DB or Barclays vs an EB the difference gets really marginal. So IMHO the safe choice could actually be to stick with your old group if you see working there being sustainable for two years.
Ok, let me do a survey. How many of you here would choose Moelis over a BB?
Can you state your reasons? It's part of the survey.
Lordy, some of you have been chugging Powerthirst this morning. I agree with the overall sentiment, but tap on the brakes a little.
Ok, fair enough. How about others? Will you choose Moelis over a BB?
They have no say on what you will do in the future. It is your life and career, not theirs. Think about what you want to do in the long-term, think about what will help you achieve that, and go with that choice. Do not even think for a second about what your parents think.
Alot of people mentioning showing LinkedIn profiles and discussing deals, things you're parents will not really understand. Also, stop speculating as to which firm he has an offer from, he doesn't need your opinion of Lazard vs. Barclays (he's already figured that out). Try speaking to them in terms they understand.
It starts with how you see your career, explain to them that you want to do PE/HF, and that in order to go there you have to work at an IBD first. I made the analogy, when explaining to my parents, as you must go to high school before going to college (obvious caveat that certain people can just skip the whole thing).
Then explain to them that your stint at XX bank would be a short stint (2-3 years) on the path to your end goal, and as a result it is more important to go with a firm that puts you in the best position to reach your end goal. You could go into the fact that some banks have had layoffs and things are changing with recent regulatory changes, but I would just stick to one theme and keep that as a bullet in the chamber.
Explain to them that compensation is better and even though they hadn't heard from it, the position at EB will put you in the best position for your career. Follow up and mention that you have talked to numerous people and give them the opportunity to speak with them.
The key point during this discussion is to continually thank them for their constant support (both financially and mentally) and that you're going to continue to need them going forward during the tough times of IBD. Make them feel a part of the decision, but also convey to them that they do not truly understand how the industry works and that they should trust you as their son to make the best decision for yourself and your family. If they have full trust in you, you'll be fine. Best of luck and keep us posted!
-EightAceTres
LOL at losing your parents over one IB job or another. I'd happily flush people like that down the tubes. Talk about irrational.
OP should just do whatever mom and dad want. This is a dumb ass thread. You're dealing with people who do not have a dynamic thought process and asking us to provide rationale that the parents will not listen to.
Man, I am so glad my family isn't like this. The better question is when does this end? Are laymen going to be deciding which PE shop you go to? Where you live?
I feel bad for the OP. Sad life.
Lots of unnecessary hatred on this thread. I'm not sure why many people here are urging OP to abandon his parents/heritage and just be an American, when it's 100% possible to keep both ways and lead a good way of life in this country.
OP, I've seen similar situations around me, and the best advice I can give you is this: You have to slowly get your parents to adjust to the fact that you are a grown-up who will make your own decisions. This can be a painful process, but it starts with small everyday things, and you have to stop depending on your parents (both financially and in terms of making decisions) and show them how you are becoming more and more independent. And try to move the argument from me vs. my parents (or EB vs. BB) to deciding your path on an important bifurcation in your life. In the end, you have to convince them you are more informed and qualified (not to mention having the right to, since this is YOUR job) to make this decision, but of course spin it positively.
Did OP do his/her own research on the actual PE placement numbers of that particular EB in recent years? I don't remember he/she talking about that in the opening post or the replies.
I still think it's DB vs. Moelis. Heard that Moelis has good placements into credit HF. Don't know much about their PE placement though.
Barclays / DB are s&t banks, but I've heard good things about DB IBD
Interesting. If my guess of DB vs. Moelis is right, does your ranking imply OP's parents are right after all (maybe for the wrong reason)?
Can you elaborate on the reasons behind your ranking? What's your reason for placing Barclays / DB above Moelis? From what I have heard, Moelis does place well into credit HF.
I just don't see Moelis up there with Lazard/Evercore... Maybe I'm biased towards BAR/DB because I'm in S&T...
This is exactly why Japan, China, etc. have such sexless cultures growing at an alarming rate. Their "men" are wimps. No wonder their women are more interested in working. These guys are submissive in every aspect.
Here's my advice. Man up. You're 22 years old and you have your parents make big life decisions for you? Do you not feel ashamed about that? Man, I sure as hell would. Then again, I'd never be in that situation because if my parents tried that I'd tell them to shut their mouths. Imagine meeting a girl (or anyone for that matter) one day and they ask about your job/background. "Yeah, I got this offer at an amazing bank that I really wanted but my parents decided against it." LOL.
Almost feel off my chair laughing at this one.
OP, do you sleep in a crate in your parent's basement?
Only if he gets a 100% or lower on an exam. If the professor didn't offer extra credit to get over a 100%, it's OP's fault.
Yah, I mean respecting your parents is one thing, but being cuckholded by them is another.
Sleeping in a crate. Omg, that shit is rich. HaH
Dude ... coming from a first generation guy ... the second I stopped giving a fuck what my parents thought the better my life became. Let me lay some real talk down for you.
Parents immigrated here from a post Soviet country. Raised and put through a good school. Dad paid for it.
I got rejected by a big name firm. No return offer. My mother went off the rockers. The perfect imagine of her son was tarnished. She said some crazy shit that upset me. However: I had a great offer from a boutique.
Fought from nothing and am now 'something' at another boutique firm that no one outside the industry knows.
My life changed for the better when I broke apart from their beliefs.
Answer this: "I don't know the answer to my dilemma ... but if I did I would ..."
You mean something like Cain Brothers, which does great things in their own niche but few outside the industry heard about it?
Some of those boutiques are pretty cool actually.
You're a grown ass man, make your own decisions and live your own life.
Your parents have no idea what they're talking about. Sit them down and (gently, calmly) explain your rationale for going to the boutique.
god damn there are some fucking funny people on WSO. some hilarious replies/commentary in here.
I have long suspected OP is a troll and the purpose of the post is to promote EBs over BBs or some other agenda. His/Her replies to my earlier requests did not dispel all my suspicions. For examples, all the banking target schools have reasonable student financial aid and it's highly unlikely that his parents would have to pay 200k+ to put him/her through college.
Maybe OP is the one who is laughing the loudest now, seeing all the drama in this thread.
Cornell is a target school with shitty financial aid. I know this from a class of 2016 admit. His parents made sub $200k in a high cost of living area. They would have had to pay out of pocket having put another kid through school beforehand. His scholarship with ... $600 a year ... from Cornell. You might know of someone who got generous aid and have put forth your concussion. We have limited data points to prove/disprove your argument.
Also what kind of laugh would OP have? Humor me.
OP it looks like the real choice you're making here is between your parents and the WSO family
Tell them why they are wrong... not just an outright denial.
I understand wanting to please your parents... after all, they sacrificed for years to help give you an education. Give them the courtesy to show why this is better for your career, and be prepared to answer questions on your thought process, why not going to a lower tier BB vs an elite boutique, and how that may help you get into PE/VC/business school/corp dev/etc.
Then, show them the compensation differences (which will be minimal).
Parents will tell you to do what they know and understand. Especially "fobs", have little knowledge of professional practices and though their hearts are in the right place, you need to make it clear to them that you are in a position to make a knowledgeable position better than their existing opinion (which is partially misguided).
If you can't pitch your parents on why you want to work somewhere, how the heck will you survive banking?
I can't wait until Exit Opp time when your parents are telling you "this KKR?" is a no name "company" and you need to to take that corporate development role at Coca-Cola. After all everyone in the world has heard of Coke, they're HUGE!!!
Wait? So why is the EB better than the BB?
At some point you gotta cut the cord. Whether it is now or later you can't keep letting your parents have influence of your decisions. Input sure, influence no. Yes they paid for college. However, does that mean they own your decision making process. While your guilt may be understandable, you are going down a slippery slope that will likely just end in resentment.
Your offer is def at Moelis at the EB... the other two are not that Elite.
Could the OP just lie? I mean his parents are going to do a site visit or see the pay stub. Move out and get direct deposit. Parents tell their kids Santa is real because it is convenient. If your parents are being childish then treat them as such.
I'd just lie to them. Easiest option.
If you can't sell you parents on the boutique, how are you going to pitch a merger to someone with you as adviser? Think of this as your first step to BSDhood.
Best post in this thread! Many have taught OP to be a lawyer, but this one teaches OP to be a banker.
In your same exact shoes during internship recruiting season. International student (and yes, Asian), parents paying for education, but also have two siblings working in high finance who work in the field and know the firms in-and-out. Had an offer from a BB for S&T where there was a full time offer to conversion, and one from a small/mid-sized hedge fund with no guarantee of a job.
Against my family's wishes, I took the hedge fund offer, and suffice to say I think I definitely made the right decision. Learnt a lot more valuable stuff, gained a ton of experience than I would have elsewhere, and became more convicted of the path I want to follow. While there's no job for me to return to, I've already been able to line up interviews for a bunch of sell-side companies and possibly even go directly to the buy-side. And if it all works out, I will ideally be going somewhere that allows me to pursue what I want to do directly, and make good money doing it.
Bottom line is, at the end of the day, you have to decide what you want, and where the upside is. Your parents may have invested in your education, but you're the one who has to realize the return. And you have a better sense of judgement than your parents of what the markets look like and where the upside will be. Want to live up to/succeed your parents' expectations? Forget the pressure and make what you think is the right call.
One day you'll be taking care of them, too. I have very strict parents who always guilted me into making decisions, and saw very quickly how much they stepped back when I progressively matured, got a job, and started paying their bills. Money enables, not commands--just show them this nj a way they'll find respectable.
lol at this entire thread. Sorry but it reminds me of the other WSO post about Wall Street hiring people with little self-esteem. My advice: do what YOU want to do and make the decision YOU can live with. In the end this is YOUR life!
I'm not giving any opinion here but am a little surprised that people are totally fine with severing ties with parents over one job. I feel bad for western culture.
I think you got it flipped. The parents would be severing ties with their child after only one job.
This. Ball is in the parents court on how they respond.
I don't have anything flipped. Having the tie severed is an occurrence that's due to both sides, though not necessarily equally. What I was commenting on his how people are fine with that happening, regardless of who is more at fault.
Your parents, respectfully, are wrong. That's just the silliest thing I've ever heard. Why does it matter to them? Why does it affect them where you want to work? If they had insisted instead that you should have been a dentist would you have done that instead?
I can understand that you want to respect their opinion...but in my mind it makes absolutely no sense for your parents to have any say whatsoever in where you go to school. And legally, of course, you have no obligation. And I don't want to be out of line...but if this is something they'd really let get in the way of their relationship with you, there's perhaps other things that need to be worked out. I know plenty of people whose parents paid for their college and they certainly did not expect to tell them where they should work. Nor should they have.
As others have said...try to sell them on the idea. But do not lose site of the fact that this is your decision and they really have nothing to do with it. It's your career, your life. You absolutely must make the best decision for yourself.
As others have said here, it's fine to have your opinions and the way you were raised and your environment means you can't actually fathom how stressful this could be for the OP and someone in his family dynamic. I also agree OP should take EB and should find a way to convince his parents it's the better choice.
However, all of you who are saying you'd cut ties with your parents and never look back to pick an EB over a BB for a job many of you probably anticipate disliking and only want to do for 2 years out of the rest of your life, are fucking crazy
Problem is if they are willing to shun their kid for picking an EB (disobeying them) THEY ARE FUCKING CRAZY and it is a toxic environment. Lording the fact they paid for college over their kids head is also terrible parenting and just plain selfish, if they expect to hold him hostage over that then perhaps his life would be better without such parents who apparently only love the idea of their kid being a prestigious BSD and would probably have disowned him had he not met expectations at some earlier point. With that said if he informs them of his EB choice and they are mildly upset that's fine and they will move on eventually. Being afraid his parent will disown him over a job should not be something any child with loving parents should worry about.
I still feel like the OP should go with the EB as his happiness and satisfaction is worth more than his parents disgust at him not going to the BB.
I think your Venn diagram which seems to treat his happiness not significantly overlapping with his parents' is misconceived.
This thread is just hilarious. Really shines a light on the WSO community haha
Agree, please do not let this thread die. Things I have learned so far: -you should not pay for your education or take responsibility for your life choices. leave it to mom and dad. -after getting everything paid for, if mom and dad do not respect your decision tell them to eff off, shun them afterall megafund or else... -no wait mom and dad sacrificed everything, you cant tell them to eff off, they paid for everything... -no eff them, parents dont know best!
OP, seriously if working at top bank vs another top bank causes you and your said parents this much grief, after having your entire life paid for and decided to this point. I sure you hope you never go sans dome with a random from the bar.
Yeah, a bunch of people pandering to the clownish backward ways of Eastern culture. Adults who are afraid to stand up to their parents. Pretty eye opening stuff.
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