Finance to... Military?
WSO has a number of members who spent some time in the military prior to entering finance (Uncle Eddie, cphbravo, etc), but I haven't heard of anyone who has done the reverse. I understand that it's an extremely uncommon decision, hence my apprehension and reaching out to the community.
My background: I went to a top target and ended up at a top BB at a decent group (not a GS TMT or MS M&A, but very well-respected nonetheless). I'm currently a first year analyst and have done well thus far (at least according to my mid-year review/bonus stub). I wouldn't say I'm unhappy with my job, but I certainly can't say I'm happy either. Sure, there are times when I'm pissed off and when the last thing I want to do is spend another minute proofing a pitch that won't go anywhere, but I ultimately get over it and do what I'm paid to do. Hours suck at times, but for someone who played a sport and had a job in college, it's actually a bit of a relief in comparison.
However, I crave a challenge and this job doesn't provide that in the least. The hardest part is faking a good attitude day in and day out when at times I want to show the short, scrawny, balding 45-year old MD how I really feel when he tells a client "sure, it's not a problem--WE'LL get that to you Monday morning." I find banking incredibly boring and don't see the PE pastures as much greener. I am, however, interested in joining a leaner HF and ultimately becoming a life-long investor.
Here's the thing: I've always wanted to serve my country and fulfill what I believe to be a duty. Furthermore, I do want to be pushed hard and I think several years with any special forces outfit would be extremely demanding and a true test of what my body and mind can handle. But then there's the desire in me to realize my ambitions and achieve as much as I can from an investor perspective as early as I can. Plus, it's hard to give up the golden handcuffs and incredible trajectory we're all on...
My father graduated from the Naval Academy and spent 10 years in the SEALs. His brother also went to the Naval Academy and ended up in MARSOC, leaving after 12 years to start a business with my dad. They've told me all the shit they had to put up with (bureaucracy, putting your ass on the line for a cause you may not believe in, etc), but they're still glad they did what they did and would do it all over again if they had to.
Here's my question: let's say after my 2-year stint I ended up joining the military for a few years. Would that entirely derail me from HF opportunities down the line?
Look up a thread by a guy named BranchDetail...this has been covered
SB for the amazing, librarian-like referencing skillz
I think it's safe to say, a military job is the NKI
That's so false I just poo'ed a little
NKI?
New Killing It
Heres the thread I mentioned: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/quitting-job-in-finance-to-become…
New Killing It.
Lol bankers do have a sense of entitlement. Why the FUCK would SEALs want an out-of-shape paper-pusher? They get some of the best, most athletic, and most badass mofos from every military branch and academy.
Not saying you cannot do it, but you'll need a lot of luck, unless you are an ex-D1 athlete or equivalent of one.
P.S.: I don't mean fat by out-of-shape, I mean a person who cannot run 15 miles with a 45lbs bag.
HPM, thanks for the link, SB for you.
Yes, I'm an ex-athlete, but no I do not believe I'm ready for it right now. I do keep in good shape by general standards, but would certainly take several months to train before joining the Navy or whatever branch I wanted. I do understand what it takes to make it as much as is possible without actually having gone through the process. My dad groomed me to do what he did and though it'll certainly still take a ton of discipline on my part, I do believe that I can do it with the right preparation.
Don't be a fucking d-bag. Don't you think that if OP's father was a SEAL for 10 years and his uncle was Marine SpecOps that he knows a shit-ton more than you about what it takes to get into the SEALs or any other SpecOps group and that he's not expecting to just waltz in there without being prepared. Why the hell do you feel the need to make such a dumbass comment?
Talking about sense of entitlement...how the fuck does some know-nothing kid like you with no real-world experience to speak of feel entitled to make dumbass comments like this?
If you want more insight, PM me. There are a lot of other guys with different experiences too so reach out to whoever.
I just want to add what you are considering is very honorable and I admire you for that.
I second this.
How did your uncle wind up in MARSOC? I thought it was a new unit.
It is. It didn't come about until years after he retired but he was at what could best be called its predecessor.
If you are healthy i.e. don't have back/joint/other issues that would make it impossible for you to go through infantry and airborne training there's nothing holding you back. Basically getting to and sustaining the level of fitness required for elite infantry units as well as actually doing the job mostly requires a ton of mental strength.
I am a reserve officer in a rifles regiment and get an incredible amount of satisfaction out of it. Was I able to go Special Forces (I can't due to medical stuff) I'd do it any time over finance. Mind you though that pay sucks and that you'll actually go into real combat which more often than not destroys your soul/sanity forever. Have seen lots of people literally go mad post deployment where they've done heavy warfighting.
I second Justin's gratitude, but I would definitely warn you about what you're considering. There are quite a few people who join the military with intentions of joining spec ops but never get there. This isn't due to them not being qualified or in good enough shape, but due to the fact that their unit is constantly deployed or building up for a deployment. As someone who went through this situation I can tell you that it is completely out of your hands. Your unit has to approve you going to take the indoc, which they typically don't want to do when they are trying to fill positions within their own command.
Also, I assume you would be joining as an officer. This has quite a few implications. You will come in as a 24-year old second lieutenant with absolutely no experience, only to be placed in charge of sergeants who are 22 and have done 3 tours overseas. It is a difficult situation coming from the military and being an analyst with associates who are younger than you, but when the consequences of your error are much higher it makes it even more difficult.
This isn't to say that you shouldn't do it. I just wanted to shed light on some things that may not be apparent when you first consider it. Best of luck to you either way, and PM me if you need anything.
just fyi, Navy OCS is extremely competitive. And it is 100x more competitive for SPECWAR. You don't just sign your name and get excepted. I put in my application to the Navy OCS selection boards in May of 2010, and I will not be reporting for OCS until May of 2011. It is a LONG wait, and there is definitely no guarantee that you will get selected.
Are yougoing to officer candidate school?
.
.
Average SF guy is 31 I believe with ~8 years of service before entering.
Also SF are enlisted as well, I think.
Nope, there are officers but they are Capt. or above and very few and far between.
Not to mention officers only get one shot at SFAS.
Aside from the obvious physical and mental preparation I was told (by people who've gone through the courses) that land navigation is an important skill to have and a lot of people come in completely unprepared and fail that aspect.
Dude the STAR course will fuck your ass like a gay porn star on Viagra and Crack...shit is un-fucking-real
That sucks. As of the late 90s officers could attend SFAS multiple times. Any idea of why they changed it?
Thanks happy
Ya HPM is correct on the stats about average age of SF guys. That's not necessarily true for all spec ops guys, but for SF it definitely is. One of the biggest things to think about is whether or not you would be happy serving in a non-spec ops unit if you didn't have the opportunity to join one immediately/ever.
nb84 is correct about choosing a job specialty you want other than SF, a lot of guys do not make it through the indoc because of injuries that they do not have any control over.
I personally was forced out of a scout sniper indoc because I came down with pneumonia and was never granted another shot at it.
SEALS
[quote=konig]SEALS
if you get killed during your time in the military then yes most likely it will be hard to get HF opportunities down the line
So what did you end up doing BranchDetail?
Going to Basic Combat Training for the Army in June 2011 followed by Officer Candidate School afterwards.
Kind of neat because the Army recently created a new system where if you attend a "Top 30" school and have the right major from there you can pick your branch and not subject yourself hoping you rank high enough to determine the order in which you pick available slots.
Unfortunately though my school and major qualify for several decent ones, infantry cannot be one of the branches chosen ahead of time nor can a "branch detail" be done, which is serving 3 years in a combat arms branch and then serving the remainder of your term in a combat support branch you choose.
BCT and OCS are going to suck but I look forward to it
Won't be that bad man. Never first, never last.
Army BCT and OCS are not going to be nearly as difficult as you think. Also, all of the branches have severely pussified their basic training programs over the past 4 or 5 years because of hazing issues, so you're not going to have it as bad as most of the horror stories you hear from buddies that went through it before then. The Army takes more of a teaching approach in their training as opposed to the Marine Corps where they just go ape shit and try to fuck with you non-stop.
If you're worried about not being able to get into the infantry because you can't choose it ahead of time, don't be. They don't ever turn someone down that wants to join the infantry. In fact, a lot of times when people underperform in other military occupation schools they get sent to the infantry because they can always use more bodies. Good luck this summer.
nb84, they turn people down ALL THE TIME that want infantry (me for example despite near perfect scores in everything).
Had a buddy who recently went through OCS. Said they treated you with more respect because you'll have to be leader, so they don't really treat you bad in OCS. They know you aren't a r'tard.
Having near perfect scores is exactly why you were turned down for infantry. My recruiter threw a pissy fit when I said all want to do it infantry because I scored high on the ASVAB. Recruiters want to fill slots that are otherwise difficult to fill, infantry not being one of them.
Ah, you're talking about Enlisted. It is MUCH tougher to get the branch (read: MOS) you want as an officer.
That explains the difference. I was enlisted also and faced the same thing as payne. I only wanted to go infantry and they tried very aggressively to sway me in any other direction. Thank God I didn't listen to them...I wouldn't have enjoyed being in the Marine Corps if I had done anything else. We did have a few lieutenants that ended up with us because they didn't make it through flight school though. That is what I was referring to before.
Ya I went infantry initially to ensure that I got to shoot at someone else, but then realized how many leadership skills you build. Another great aspect of being in the infantry as an officer is quick promotion. You advance through the ranks much more quickly than you would in any other MOS.
GS IBD > US Military
Let's see you cringe when you get sent to Iraq and have five 13 year old Al-Qaeda kids shooting at you with AKs.
.
5 kids? Luckily the M4 holds 30 rounds so there will be plenty left.
A couple of things...
OP, if you really believe this is what you want to do, you absolutely should.
Let me caveat some things before you go, however. The reality of the service will no more resemble your mental imagery than does the reality of the analyst program versus your likely expectations. It is stereotypically repeated by many former officers that they hated many aspects of the army, but always loved the men. My experience was somewhat different.
You will, as a reasonably educated former Wall Streeter, find that much of the army does not match your outlook on many things. Many of your men will be slow, ignorant and narrow minded. Many will be culturally different, and difficult to understand. Becoming a part of the army is getting to understand that much of society is different than you are, in ways you may not always feel are good. My romanticized vision of noble warriors was severely tested in my days in the mud and the blood. In the end, I suppose I did love them all. But it was not always an easy romance.
Second, to the question of physical condition. Yes, get fit. It will make everything from Basic to OCS to specialist schools easier. But the prior poster has no fucking clue. I somehow (I mean that genuinely) made it through my training, plus jump school and Selection when a great many candidates did not, despite being far superior athletes to me. I remain in awe of the many operators I have had the privilege of entrusting my life to. While many of them were extremely physically strong, the reason I believed in them was that they were mentally hard. They endured. They were never, ever out of the fight. This is what you must aspire to.
To HPM, if you've ever shot a skinny with a green tip, you should know he's probably not going down unless you repeat the exercise at least once. Take my word for it.
:)
All due respect sir, in the words of Col. Charles Beckwith, "You just ain't shootin' em in the right place."
GenghisKhan, you were SF in Somalia weren't you? Only SF or other elite units refer to eachother as operators.
Reminds me of my response when people inevitably ask the dumbest question on earth to a vet, "did you kill anybody?"
I find the best response is to say "yes, mainly just women and children though."
Ya we quickly learned that the first couple of shots only seemed to stun them and knock them off balance a little so that they couldn't aim as accurately. If you're using an M4 you will either have to dump 7 or 8 rounds into one of those fatties or land one in his head. We decided to go with the latter.
Yea that and the fact that he talked about making it through selection kinda gave that away.
Any advice for someone who wants to go the Officer Route in the support branches. Look, I am not trying to become Infantry or anything. My dream job is a Logistics Officer in the Air Force...any idea on how difficult this will be to get. I am in college and trying to get in around 2015. I open to the Navy, Marines and Army as well.
What can I do to to best position myself for a chance? A high GPA, physical fitness. What else? I would be doing ROTC right now if I was a US Citizen, but I'm not, so I don't have that option. What I can do is apply to OCS after I graduate, get naturalized and renounce my old citizenship.
High GPA Good conditioning and start talking to people now. A technical major wouldn't hurt but basing your major on something like how the air force would like it is silly.
I am looking into becoming a Logistics/Finance type officer, so wouldn't Economics or Accounting be the right majors?
They don't really care about your major. The vast majority of officers, regardless of field, are history or Poli Sci majors in the army. Navy and Air Force tend to be more technical but it really has very little effect as you'll do to BOLC to learn everything you need to know anyway.
God bless ya, brotha
Just wondering what you ended up doing? I am having the same debate as you.
Also, considering this into the Navy intelligence officer program, Just passed CFA level 1, and really feel like this isn't the spot for me, any thoughts?
Considering this as well, albeit a slightly longer time (~10 years) because of flight commitment. Would a ~32 y/o with a MBA or advanced degree be competitive for associate? (Currently top-20 target)
Switching from finance to military (Originally Posted: 08/18/2014)
Hey all, I've been working at a BB (in a back office role) for the past 5 years. I've been wanting to go the military officer path to do something completely different with my life (notwithstanding all the leadership opportunities) as I literally don't know what to do with my current job situation. I contemplated law school but am still not sure, or going for an MBA in order to make a career switch. I've been selected to OCS this fall and since I'm already approaching the age limit, this would be my last shot. At the same time, my friends and family advise against this as I'm reaching that age in which my peers are getting established in their careers and are starting families, so it would not be ideal, according to them, for me to do this given my age and esp. since I'm a female if I want to start a family anytime soon. Also I would probably be entering a new industry if I get out in 4 years, which means I'd have to start all over. I know of some people in IB who decided to go this route and people thought they were crazy. Any thoughts or advice appreciated!
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