How to deal with rejection?

Currently a college student at an undergraduate business school, I have applied for a multitude of board positions, internships, competitive programs, and selective informational sessions. At this point, I have become accustomed to seeing the words "We regret to inform you..." which is when I just close out of the email. I have yet to get a spot after a competitive process, and it is very discouraging when I go to school with so many intelligent people. (I do go to one of the top business schools in the country, but still.) Have you guys had to deal with endless rejections? How did you work through it, and are you satisfied with where you are now? I could really use some advice. Thanks!

 

I've done it almost every time and typically get the whole "we can't disclose that" answer. The few times I have been given feedback have helped a lot. The first time I interviewed for a CRE Brokerage position, at M&M, I did a great job with the recruiters, but botched it with the MD. I asked for some feedback and they said that the MD didn't think I was interested because I did not have any questions. Although I had had a laundry list of questions for the recruiters, by the time I got to the MD my questions had been answered. From that point on, I've made sure to ask relevant questions at each stage.

 

(I'm still a student so I'm kinda in the same boat as you) Don't beat yourself up about it. If you've made mistakes in the process (e.g. assessments), try and analyze your mistakes - write this analysis down somewhere so you can learn from it next time. Brush it off and work 2x harder.

Rejections can hurt (especially if there's no reason as to why they rejected you), but you've just got to soldier on and keep at it

 

Don't worry my dude. I firmly believe the kids who grew up taking loses are the ones most likely succeed in the end. You just keep pushing harder.

Absolute truths don't exist... celebrated opinions do.
 

Listen man, you go to a top business school in the country and you are surrounded by intelligent people. It should not be discouraging, but rather a HUGE motivation for you.

Reach out to your peers, have a stable network and get each other through recruiting. Use them and help them out because you are each other's best asset. The best and the brightest will be applying to every job you do, so wouldn't it be awesome if you knew a bunch of them? Nothing like some friendly competition to make sure your on your A-Game.

In regards to rejections, I think that should be pushing you to study up more/reflect on and FIX your mistakes (possibly go for some mock interviews)/ and then push forward. The recruitment cycle is rough man, but you know what you're getting yourself into!

 

As a student who's also in your position as well, try not to attach too much emotion to these types of things. It's easy to visualize yourself in a position that you just got a second or third round interview for but also consider the worst case scenario is a possibility as well (not getting the position). I had three interviews earlier this year with a BB only to hear back that they weren't going to continue with my candidacy. Yeah, it sucks but we're too young to be sulking about missed opportunities. Keep your head down and keep grinding. All it takes is one cold call answered or one email answered to change your circumstance. Plus, if you go to a top business school in the country, I'm inclined to believe things will work out for you.

 

I went through the same thing. Best thing to do is find a new goal and start working towards accomplishing it. I would encourage you to find a new company, grad school etc. and to work towards. Also have some sort of a leisure goal. I started training for a marathon, that got my mind off being upset. Honestly, the best thing to do is to just get over it. I know it's much easier said than done. Hope you feel better!

 

You might be applying to positions you're underqualified for. You might benefit from volunteering somewhere and joining some of the clubs/organizations you're interested in before applying to a board position. Non-profits and community service never look bad on a resume.

 

I wouldn't let these things get you down. Up until going through the internship and employment process, intelligent students have always been used to getting their way and getting into everything - classes of their choice, acceptance into colleges, etc but this all changes once you start looking for internships and jobs. Spots are very limited (much more limited than spots at the college you applied to) in addition to lots of intangible factors that have nothing to do with how smart you are.

I would do mock interviews at the career center and get any feedback to make sure there aren't any holes in your interview approach / resume you are not aware of. Additionally, I would be sure to network plenty, especially for opportunities before you apply so they know who you are as you'll have a better chance than cold resume drop. Other than that, continue to be persistent, work hard, and things will click.

 

How did you find a boutique IB willing to sponsor you? In my case, I contacted ~80 banks and nobody could even offer me an internship. Tried again senior summer, sent out ~500 emails and talked to ~100, same result, and I seriously don't know where else I can find more investment banks. Don't even know how you can find 800+ people to network to begin with, thats probably 100+ firms

 

A few resources that I used while doing this. Most effective > Join social groups > network > ask for referrals Semi effective > select a sector > look at investment report > look at analyst coverage section > call the analysts listed there (for ER job) Leave no stone unturned > go through FactSet/ Capital IQ/ Bloomberg to list out all the investment banks in your area

 

One thing I have noticed about selective college organizations is that they don't select based on merit. There's very little that separates your resume from another underclassman at your same school. Don't take the rejections personally. I know student-run investment funds are notorious for this BS. Other than that, I agree with others: the only failure is to accept defeat.

Gimme the loot
 

Here's how I dealt with rejection: 1. Grow a pair of balls and don't let it phase you (luckily this one came naturally for me) 2. Keep playing the numbers and odds, simple as that. That's the best thing you can do. 3. Read a lot of books. The first rejection letter I got came from a KPMG recruiter. I pretty much just laughed because I knew I was exponentially smarter than the recruiter. You want to win in the long run.

Overwhelming grasp of the obvious.
 

To keep you motivated, let me tell you a story. While at school, on top of applying for all the investment banking jobs, I also applied accounting jobs to hedge my bet. I even applied to become for an audit program at KPMG. And this kid, his real name is Matt (gotta leave out his real last name). He got into KPMG summer intern program and eventually he was offered a full time position there.

I was really desperate for a job. I suck up to him so that he can help me secure a position at KPMG. And his exact words was that "you are not even good enough for our KPMG Audit Program." And KPMG rejected me - yes from a fucking audit program. He went on working for KPMG. He was one year ahead of me in school.

Fast forward a year later, I got my first investment banking job. The starting salary was around US$160,000 all comps included. And one day, I was walking down the office and my manager said, "Hey there is someone around the office who said he went to the same school as you." Our firm was going through an annual audit. And look who is in the office.

Yes that fucking Matt with his buck teeth. I just went over to him and said, "Hey Matt, so how is work?" He seem very very surprised. I handed over my card, and said "Yes I work here". He seems very embarrassed and said, "So, I been with KPMG for a year and thought of moving from audit to advisory role. It seems like you guys make pretty good money around here."

This is my moment, I told him, "Not that much. Probably not as much you make at KPMG. Of course, you know how much I make. You are my ACCOUNTANT." And I continued, "So if we end up looking to hire people at your level, we will keep you posted." That was the sweetest revenge ever.

So the point is fuck what everyone think. As long as you are alive, you will live to fight another day. If not today, but some day, one day. The time will come for you to screw back people who looked down on you.

And just checked his LinkedIn profile. He moved to another accounting firm as Senior Manager still doing accounting. Look who is winning. Lol.

 

Before interviewing any more, you need to immediately figure out what's going wrong. Be honest with yourself. Are you preparing enough? Do you have a good GPA? Do you have any internships under your belt? Be honest with yourself. Anyway, I've typed this up somewhere on WSO before, but what really helps me getting over getting rejection for a position is understanding that it is not always about me and my candidacy.

About a year ago, I was looking to exit IB. I was selectively interviewing for some PE and corp dev roles and found one that really interested me. It was a corp dev role in a very unique industry and a city that I really wanted to be in. I crushed the initial HR screen, crushed the interview with the hiring manager, and crushed the interview with the head of corp dev. The firm flies me out to their HQ, put me up in a swanky hotel, and even has a welcome basket of food and souvenirs waiting for me in my hotel room.

The next day, I interview with the hiring manager, the head of corp dev, and the CFO. The interviews go well, the people all try to sell me on the firm, and then we go to lunch at this fancy steak house. Lunch goes well, and I connect on a personal level with the interviewers. The day wraps up, and I fly back home. I send out my thank you emails and then go to bed.

A few days later, I get the call. No offer for me, not even any real feedback from HR. I was stunned. I had the requisite IB background, I connected with the interviewers, and the role was nichey enough where I was sure that I had little or no competition. A few weeks later, I get on LinkedIn to see if I can find the guy/gal who got the position. I am again stunned. I almost restart my computer just to make sure this isn't a glitch. The guy who got the spot was a VP at a BB, had over a decade of IB experience, and had two Ivy League degrees. I still to this day wonder why the firm even bothered interviewing me when I was competing against this guy, but what this experience told me is that sometimes, it's not that you did not interview well, but rather that the competition was just better or more-qualified. You cannot control that.

 

Its hard to believe when the wounds are fresh, but trust me you will get over it. It's like a breakup. Right now, all you can do is see yourself with that firm, in that job, and all your problems were going to be solved once you got there. No other job could ever compare to that one. In time this idyllic thought will fade and you will be granted some other opportunity where you will likely repeat the cycle.

How do I know this? Because all i've done in my first quarter century on this planet is get rejected. I emailed 300+ people trying to get an internship and failed. I spent my summer at my parents house. That killed me. Then I went to grad school and repeated that same feat for full time jobs. Then I was was unemployed living with my parents after grad school. Why was I unemployed? Because there was a time right before I graduated when I had an offer and at investment bank that got pulled in favor of an internal candidate. That absolutely killed me, if I hadn't already died the first time. then right after graduation I interviewed with a hedge fund where the CIO told me in the interview that he looked forward to working with me. Never heard from any of those people again. But it was ok, because I had already died a few times.

The truth is, you are going to take a lot of shit now and throughout your career. You build up scartissue, and you get to bask in the enjoyment of getting the shit kicked out of you in other areas of your life. Things in life like to have this serendipitous method of always fucking you over at the right time. My girlfriend cheated on me, which really hurt, until my best friend died, which wouldn't have hurt so bad if I didn't get fired a month later.

Rejection isn't so bad, because if you aren't experiencing any theres probably a metric fuckton of it waiting for you right around the corner.

 

I think the best way is to get used to it and make the process of applying more "mechanical", so to say. Don't expect a response for any of the applications you send out, and just don't think of it too negatively. Keep on applying, keep on applying, keep on applying.

 

not trying to be a douche here but honestly the biggest thing is to not feel sorry for yourself. its dope that you were able to get chances at multiple BBs from an outside school - unfortunately not every good candidate can get hired by bulge. realize that this isnt the end of the world and get back on the horse so you dont miss out on some MM or boutique opportunities before its too late.

 

Don't feel sorry for yourself yet. Shift your networking down market so that you know people at those smaller firms as just in time intern hiring happens.

It won't be too bad. Some of those small shops offer great compensation packages combined with more pleasant co-workers, with a tradeoff of exit opportunities and (sometimes) having a less organized management style.

This year I'm not actively targeting IB, and all of what I have considered is at small, specialized shops or groups who have focused advisory practices in specific regions or industries. Reason why is that I had an internship experience with one of those large BB firms as the client and I found the extremely rigid processes at those firms to be a poor fit for my personality.

 

You did not get rejected because the bulge's take the ivy league first. An interview is a level playing field. You do not interview as great as you think you do, which is fine, but you need to first get your head out of your ass and stop thinking that you're a perfect 10. If you're doing everything you say you are, then the problem very clearly lies within your interviewing skills. Do a little introspection and figure it out.

 

Attention to detail. Nowhere did he say that he actually interviewed with any BB firms.

There actually is some truth to what he's saying in a slow hiring environment. The typical impact is that non-core recruiting is the first to dry up, immediately followed by semi-target recruiting. In an extremely harsh environment recruiting will only be at HYP and/or the best regional school.

 

Also you don't really "get up", and you aren't that far down relative to everyone else.

The reality is that a post-MBA transition or lateral may be necessary. I know a number of people who went to non-target schools and had to start their careers in valuation, due diligence, M&A integration, etc.

Keep in mind that banks tend to drastically overreact in both directions. They cut down more than they need to during slowdowns, and then make the difference with room to spare once the rebound hits. When that happens it creates a lot of sudden demand and lateral moves to top BB firms become relatively easy.

 

I can understand it feels bad to be rejected by a bank you like but in the end they are running a business, so the harsh reality is that they don't really care that much about you. It is definitely more common to expect a rejection compared to anything good... rejections have become like breakfast to me, I laugh when I get one.

Don't worry, as Black Jack said, just don't give up and everything will fall into place!

Best of luck!

 
banker20132014:
rejections have become like breakfast to me, I laugh when I get one.

You laugh when you get breakfast? Interesting.

In all seriousness though, coming from someone with a non-traditional background who got rejected close to 30 times after interviews and after 12 interviews from one bank; stay confident in yourself. I keep a "They'll be sorry" email folder as motivation. If you know your shit, and have confidence then you will succeed.

Dont forget that the people interviewing you are not some ultra intelligent geniuses that make perfect decisions. They are people just like you and I who make mistakes...just assume that not hiring you is one them.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
 

It's always worth asking why you didnt move on, to see if there was a weakness in your application/interviewing that you can improve. They usually wont answer, but it's worth a shot.

Move on, change your mindset to "well F them then" and use it as motivation to be awesome with your future employer, make them remember one day that they rejected a straight rain-maker.

 

charge it to the game, son.

Disclaimer for the Kids: Any forward-looking statements are solely for informational purposes and cannot be taken as investment advice. Consult your moms before deciding where to invest.
 

i used to take rejection at a weekly basis for 4 months. it almost became my mentality that i would fail whatever interview i got.

make sure never let the bad morale influence ur motivation and drive. treat it as a learning process. dont stop preparing interviews and continue networking. every positive thing u do is a small building block and eventually u will succeed. the world really lacks persistent ppl

 
WeGoHam1:
My Advice: On to the next one. I should listen to my own advice though. Got two more rejections today by big names, and its definitely not a good feeling....

Definitely not good - it really lowers your morale.

 

You are not the first one... just learn to cope with rejections... Getting rejected is not something you should enjoy (unless you hate yourself). Don't have high hopes, think of interviews as practice and rejections will be easier.

 

Why do you want this?

  1. Get real experience in the field in whatever way you can, you should be sure you like it before leaving your field and applying for full time.
  2. You might be perceived as too brainy or overqualified with a PhD in physics for being a novice in the field, hiring you poses a risk that you'll get bored quickly. This is assuming you've targeted traditional investment managers, not quant funds.
  3. Target funds that value your research / quantitative experience, e.g. prop shops and quant funds. Don't apply to the firms every kid with an undergrad in finance applies to. Being a math geek won't be valued as much if you're at a fund that specializes in digging deep into the books of companies looking for weird accounting policies.

WM and AM are different, so choose the path that fits you and your skill set best. It's great that you've traded on your own and read books from the GS list, but as I'm sure you know that won't really push the needle at all.

 

Thanks for your response.

  1. This was my reasoning behind applying. I heard analysts can be perturbed if they are assigned to associates from non financial backgrounds. Preferable to at least have completed an internship. In all fairness the rejection was for an analyst position, but it was the only internship they had for AM. I heard that associates from non-finance backgrounds closely shadow analyst tasks for the first 12 months anyway. Perhaps you can confirm or rectify this view.

I accept the other points. Perhaps you could elaborate on the difference in day to day tasks in AM and WM from your experience. I understand that both are essentially underpinned by portfolio and investment management but that wealth management involves more fraternising with clients given that they are individuals rather than institutions. Both presumably involve selling investment management to someone, be they wealthy people or instiutions. I have actually applied for both roles.

Once again thanks for your input.

 

You're welcome. I don't think I know of anyone coming in on a PhD level, so I can't speak from experience. Also where are you located? Internships in AM are sparse to begin with, so just keep on applying to the openings you find.

I have never worked in WM so I can't comment on day to day tasks, but I can elaborate on the differences. As you already know both AM and WM entail investment roles, the key difference being the client. Our main clients are pension funds, insurance companies, and other institutional investors, whose investments range in the double to triple digit (or more) millions per fund. We have a set of rules we follow (what we should be investing in, what we are benchmarked to, constraints etc.) when making our investments. Your investors will want to know what's happening with their money, so your job does not only entail researching companies and keeping up with the markets, but you'll need to prepare presentations, answer questions from your investors (tell them what you're up to, what you think of the markets). So you basically have a set of rules to follow and make money for your investors. On the other hand, in wealth management you will be dealing with wealthy individuals with personal portfolios possibly reaching into the 100s of millions, as well. But you will advise not only regarding his investments, but also on things such as taxes and issues surrounding inheritances. The relationship is more personal, so relationships are very important (as is the case in AM, but it's usually just senior managers meeting with clients). Both careers can be interesting, if you're really into deep analysis of companies / economies you might be better off at a fund (AM), but if you're great with people WM might be a better choice. The real difference probably lies in the advisory part, in AM you aren't advising anyone what to do with their money (except sticking it in your fund of course!), but in WM you'll need to base your decisions off what his current and future needs are.

Sorry about the lack of cohesiveness of this text.

 

A very detailed explanation. I am an applied math PhD and minored in CS. All I know is modeling, scientific computing, and hpc, machine learning. I don't have financial knowledge though I am very interested in AM. Can anyone give me some suggestions for finding jobs in Hedge fund or Am? Thanks!

 

Bridgewater, Citadel, Point72. At the banks, a quant role (e.g. Strats at Goldman) may provide another avenue... But based on your thought process, personality implied through your posts, etc. - I'd recommend Bridgewater most. They'd probably like you.

 

Reading this makes me want to give you a hug.

Good things (even great things) come to those who wait. Trust me, I would know. I've had many interviews this past school year, and I've always thought that I did well. Didn't get called back/the job for any of them, except for the last one that I had, in which I ended up receiving an offer in mid March of this year.

You may think you did well in an interview, but the other end might not have truly thought the same thing, as much as they might have indicated otherwise during the actual interview.

For me, to try to figure out what I've been doing wrong, I finally decided to do some mock interviews with alumni that I knew from my sister. After interviewing with them, they immediately gave me feedback on problems that I never knew I had. They were extremely helpful, and I am so thankful for their help. In fact, I had these 2 mock interviews right before the one interview that I ended up receiving the job offer from. That may have be a coincidence, but I highly doubt it. Still, getting a job has always been a hit or miss and has had a lot to do with luck.

You'll be okay, buddy. It will get better.

 
newyorkstateofmind:
Good things (even great things) come to those who wait.

Although I echo the sentiment, I hate that saying. I prefer: "Good things come to those who work their asses off and never give up."

I feel like this too embodies the advice everyone is giving on here. Good luck dude and keep on trying - if you do then it'll only get better with time and work!

"Money was never a big motivation for me, except as a way to keep score. The real excitement is playing the game." - Donald Trump
 

i've been rejected so many goddam times when it came to SA recruitment that i started laughing (insanity) after like the 15th place that said no to me....until i got an unpaid regional boutique internship and chugged along for months and months and networked my ass off and with extensive networking, prep, coffees/lunches, shaking hands, kissing babies etc. etc- i was able to get my FT offer at a great MM firm.

point is, you gota keep going. seriously, dont stop. the second you give up for real, its hard to turn back. stay positive, use the rejection to motivate yourself to network, keep prepping and get your name out there. determination and a solid network/being liked can make up for a lack of target school on the resume. goodluck!

I don't throw darts at a board. I bet on sure things. Read Sun-tzu, The Art of War. Every battle is won before it is ever fought- GG
 

Disclaimer: I dont work in IBD but for the last few months I have been sitting in on interviews with people looking for jobs at the company I work for.

I used to wonder how on earth I could crush an interview and then get rejected. From what I've seen, often, although its cliche, "ITS NOT YOU, ITS US" does apply.

These are just a few of the reasons I've personally seen for rejecting a candidate:

1) Position doesn't exist yet and we wanted to see what potential candidates would be interested should we create it 2) Position used to be a senior position and now we haven't decided whether or not it will continue to be senior or become junior 3) Company is going through a strategic reorg and the position isnt 100% defined yet. Still need to know who could potentially fill it 4) Internal candidate had similar credentials and was pushed through by an exec despite other candidate being personable and well qualified. 5) Sheer politics surrounding who makes the decision. The VP was new and the manager and director wasn't aware that the VP likes to be intimately involved in the hiring process. When the final candidate was brought to the VP he threw out the resume and told them he will be involved in picking the person.

All these are just things I've personally seen over the last few months. So next time you crush an interview and get rejected don't assume its because of some flaw you possess. A lot of the time its no fault of your own.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand Russell
 

I know the feeling after an interview. You feel like you have absolutely nailed it on the wall. And then when you get the rejection letter, you start to recall what went wrong and time you have wasted going to an interview.

“It is our fate to be tormented with large and small dilemmas as we daily wind our way through the risky, fractious world that gave us birth” Edward O. Wilson.
 

One thing to keep in mind is that this is an extremely competitive industry, and what constitutes a "great" interview in another industry will not cut it in high finance. A good interview is an interview that ends in an offer. That's the relevant metric. Sometimes I am stunned by what is expected of today's 21 year olds relative to what was expected of those in past generations (don't let any adult tell you that you have it easier because you don't).

 

Big deal, I come from a worse target school than you in a southern town, had a sub 3.0 gpa, and landed 9 IB interviews, 3 corp fin interviews, and 4 Private banking interviews. Managed get 3 offers out of them too.

Stop being complacent - this shits a global competition and nobody is here to pity you. Not trying to be an Ahole, just relaying the information I was once told.

 
newyorkstateofmind:
LevFun:
newyorkstateofmind:

Good things (even great things) come to those who wait.

Although I echo the sentiment, I hate that saying. I prefer: "Good things come to those who work their asses off and never give up."

I feel like this too embodies the advice everyone is giving on here. Good luck dude and keep on trying - if you do then it'll only get better with time and work!

I don't think anyone really takes that saying literally as in good things will come to those who wait and do nothing and just sit on their asses. Your saying is basically elaborating on the old saying. "Wait" really means "don't give up."

You mean people LITERALLY don't just sit on their ass and good things come to them?!!?!? HOLY CRAP!

Thanks for enlightening me!! Also, thanks for restating the obvious.

pphi:

Big deal, I come from a worse target school than you in a southern town, had a sub 3.0 gpa, and landed 9 IB interviews, 3 corp fin interviews, and 4 Private banking interviews. Managed get 3 offers out of them too.

Which fortune 500 company do(es) your parent(s) run?

pphi:

Stop being complacent - this shits a global competition and nobody is here to pity you. Not trying to be an Ahole, just relaying the information I was once told.

It's a Mental Hunger Games

"Money was never a big motivation for me, except as a way to keep score. The real excitement is playing the game." - Donald Trump
 

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“To achieve satisfactory investment results is easier than most people realize; to achieve superior results is harder than it looks.” --Benjamin Graham B.K.
 

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