Straight from Non-Target to Hedge Fund - Friend's path - Am I missing something?
Alright, so can someone tell me if I'm missing something here? My friend graduated a few yrs ago from a complete non-target in Connecticut, and immediately got job offers from MM banks in Conn, and now after being there for a year has moved into a Hedge Fund working as a FIPC...am I missing something or is this either a) completely unrealistic and he got lucky, or b) he's working a BO-type role that is easy to come by. Fund he is working at has gained some notoriety as well, but isn't very large at all and they don't even have a website.
A lot(most?) hedge funds don't have websites.
Also, your school does not dictate your success the individual does. Maybe you missed your friend's hard work and motivation. Or maybe he has some back office role. It's your friend, you should know which it is.
C'mon, what do you mean "immediately got job offers" If the kid worked, then he deserved it, and its not some fluke.
Did he network a lot? Did he have internships? What were his grades like? Also, MM firms in Connecticut will be competitive, but they won't have the same competition as BBs in New York. so its not like those places are onlly going to be filled with 3.8+ from top schools. Seems typpical that regional MM banks would hire top students from regional schools, doesn't it?
Sorry, but I don't know what FIPC is
And why wouldn't a small-medium size HF hire an analyst banker? School matters less and less as you gain experience, and this guy is obviously hungry and smart, right?
Am I missing something about your question?
"target" helps, but it isnt make or break....especially if the job is not at a huge, top-name place that likes pedigree
^ yes. ESPECIALLY if it's a small fund and/or he's in a back office role, it's definitely possible. ESPECIALLY in CT.
So what is FIPC?
did this guy go from MM banking analyst to HF, or just some MM bank position to HF?
FIPC - Fuel Injection Pump Controller. Google doesn't lie does it?
Fixed income product controller
He went from MM analyst to hf..in a year
OP, I can smell your insecurity from here....get a fucking sack
Fixed income product controller is a BO job. You can stop being so jelly OP.
If I were you I would ask your friend for a HOOKUPPPPP...
Stranger things have happened in this world.
QFT
Your friend probably just worked hard, got good grades, and networked. You can still make it coming from a non-target its not the end of the world.
I think the real question here is: why are you really asking these questions?
My answer is that your jealous.
Product control=back office
I smell sackless swine
Hedge Fund from a Non Target? (Originally Posted: 11/17/2017)
Hey monkeys,
I'm interested in possibly trying to get a job at a HF after college. I'm likely going to be going to a nontarget on the west coast (Harvey Mudd; exceptional STEM school but not really the best place for finance). I know that some financial firms recruit there (Bloomberg, Citadel and DE Shaw), and I guess I have access to Pomona & Claremont McKenna's OCR, but is it still possible to break in with a Mudd engineering or Math/CS degree, or do HF's only hire from Ivies/Stanford/MIT? Would going to Mudd, then an MBA business schools">M7 MBA / MFE better my chances?
Don't know much about the process so any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!
Hey statedilemma, sorry about the delay, but are any of these useful:
More suggestions...
I hope those threads give you a bit more insight.
bump. I'm in the same boat.
From a place like Harvey Mudd, you should be able to find some seniors who can help you get looked at. Very possible, but you need to network, big time. Have a good contextual framework to demonstrate market knowledge/ interest, rather than randomly spewing out facts... I would any day be impressed by a guy who says, "investment B appears riskier than investment A because of reasons 1,2 and 3, but it doesn't seem like B makes much more in the upside case. So I would prefer A over B", instead of hearing random memorized nuggets. Dastidar's book, mentioned by people in the forums, is a good first step to building that ... maybe your career center has a copy, o/w not too expensive
Sounds good, I'll check out that book. Thanks for the info, appreciate it!
I'd guess it'd be totally dependent on what fund you're looking for. The quant route fits the mold of a math/engineering/STEM major so it isn't totally in the dark (especially cause HM is an exceptional spot to study that).
For the L/S (or any fundamental, non macro route) then you're going to have to work a bit harder. Maybe try and break into IB/ER in a tech role (studying math/engineering for tech IB is a great transition story). It's totally doable and Harvey Mudd is a respectable institution. Put in the extra work and you'll do well! Best of luck.
That's awesome to hear, thank you for the advice-- appreciate it! Cheers!
Breaking into HF from a non-target? (Originally Posted: 08/02/2016)
How much difficult is it to go from BB IB coverage to HF if you're not from a well-known school?
Yummy's SB's for helpful answers :-)
One key difference between hedge fund and investment banking / private equity is the view on pedigree.
Pedigree is a big factor in investment banking and private equity hiring. Relationships and personal networks drive deal flows, and at the end of the day, investment banking / private equity are transaction-based businesses. Going to a well-known school means that you have a baseline of intelligence, communication skills, and a decent network to help build the business. Potential clients might look to your pedigree as a differentiator. I remember one CEO told his company's private equity sponsor that he wanted to work with the private equity fund because the team is all HBS grads.
On the hedge fund side, pedigree matters less. It still matters, but more as an indication of a person's work ethic and intelligence. Investing is a research-heavy job without the transaction aspect, and if you can make your clients money through good stock picking, it doesn't matter whether you went to Harvard or Bunker Hill Community College.
That's why hedge fund interviews get right down to testing your research skills and judgement. Not a lot of time is focused on your school and extracurricular activities. Most of the interviews are focused on you industry knowledge, your thoughts on those industries, businesses, and stocks.
Echoing above poster but generally HFs don't care as much about the "prestige" aspect for school / where you worked. Your prior work experience is important insofar as the recruiters tend to filter you out from there, but once you get an interview, it's 100% about your drive, passion for stocks, stock pitches, etc.
Thanks for the helpful reply.
Besides getting an interview through headhunters/recruiters, are there any other common ways people get an interview?
Headhunters + internal recruiters for the multi-manager guys (millenium, P72, Surveyor, etc) all have internal recruiters. You will also see recent ex-bankers now turned multi-mangers Jrs help their buddies still in banking get interviews @ pods. They can just pass along resumes to the internal recruiters, and that's usually good enough to get you a first look.
Boutique - Non-Target -Current HF Intern (Originally Posted: 07/05/2017)
Hello,
I am a currently a student at a non-target, studying Electrical Engineering with a minor in Economics. I am going into my Jr. year, and have a ~2.7 GPA, yes low, but I'm well-versed in my involvement, and I expect the GPA to to increase substantially now that I've finished my weed-out courses.
Fortunately, with some networking I managed to land an internship at a hedge-fund that focuses on biomed/pharmaceutical investments. My previous experience includes doing on-campus research (in biomedical engineering, wink-wink). I will be purchasing WSO Interview strategies. And am also learning off of some Financial Accounting & Analysis books that have been passed down to me -- from a family member who helped me land the internship!
With this hedge-fund internship, what is the best way to land an internship at a boutique that focuses on the same biomed/pharma industry? Obviously networking will be a big key. What are some tips that I can play in my favor since I am not studying finance? How much will my GPA factor into landing another internship?
Let me guess, you go to Baruch too Martin? You have to market yourself the best you can can explain why your GPA is so low.
Actually, far from it my man!
First Year Hedge Fund Associate From Non-Target AMA (Originally Posted: 05/04/2014)
went to a non-target spent a year in middle office type role then 1 year in IB and just got a gig at an event driven hedge fund...AMA
What was the interview process like? Case study/models?
Did you go through a HH or did you reach out to them?
How large is your fund? Ball park is okay.
about a billion
more about your background, how you transition from MO -> IB ->HF
Also, is your current role in a regional city or a mero area (SF, NYC) Thanks a lot.
It's in a major city like one of the ones you mentioned, I was in MO for about a year in an industry group doing something close to FO (not trading - think corporate banking) i did well and worked on some cool deals and found a bank that needed a 1st year lateral in my industry group (through a hh)...the bank was an elite boutique, from there it was pretty easy since i was doing M&A...as a heads up i was in an industry group that everyone is thinks its hard to break out of (think RE or FIG) but honestly no one cared at all the funds i was interviewing at
Yes, how did you make the jump from MO to IB?
I've been practicing building models during my downtime at work, just to keep myself sharp. also read the Wall Street Prep from the site just to stay on top of the questions likely to be asked. it's a long short but I'll see what I can do.
Thanks for taking the time to answer!
In long/short hedge funds (Multi-manager platforms), for entry-level associate/analyst,are there opportunities to work and learn from portfolio manager, or you only work with senior analyst/ sector lead and learn from them?
Sorry for all of the questions - I admittedly know very little about the world of HFs
Breaking into HF from Non-Target (Originally Posted: 07/26/2012)
Hello WSO,
I want a completely honest and brutal assesment of my current situation, I believe there is a lot of smart and experienced people here to give me a realistic overview of my situation.
Without boring anyone:
College: Babson College (located outside of Boston in MA) GPA: 3.0 Concentration: Finance Year: Rising Junior Previous Internships(lol>_NY and some other areas (maybe some help here) start e-mailing and cold calling -Know a HF manager in Europe (recent acquantince) I think we hit it off good and will send him an e-mail once he finishes his travelling HF (BB) -(I don't really feel I have the luxury of choosing haha)
My realistic scenario for now is that,I can work at a boutique firm (mid-level market IB, start-up PE/HF) after graduating. Then possibly after 1-2 years at the firm (constantly making contacts and netowrking ofc) study up for GMAT's and aim for 700+ (I believe I can do this). From there my goal would be to end up at a target school for MBA...
So that was too much information as it is so I'll leave it there and thank you again for any input I can get, I really hope to get to know more talented and intelligent people on this forum
Cheers!
-Soules
Good luck with your efforts, I hope they pay off. I can't really give you much advice as I am in the same boat, however I will say that ending up in an MBA is not a viable 'goal'. Yes, a lot of people use it as a means to get to a goal, but it shouldn't be a goal in itself. Realize that you can achieve whatever you want to in life without ever doing an MBA. The MBA sometimes makes it easier to achieve that but at a cost of two years and a few hundred thousand dollars (including opportunity cost). Focus all your energy on breaking into HF, forget about the MBA for now. Once again, good luck and let me know how it goes.
Keep networking man! A 3.0 from a relatively non-target school isn't looking too good in your favor, but if you have good social and networking skills you can offset anything!
You should look into getting a part-time internship with a boutique investment bank in the greater Boston area. This will give you industry exposure and off-set your low GPA.
darth_sidius thank you for your encouragement, and yes I agree that keeping an MBA as a goal is definitely not a good idea, I'm hungry and driven enough to throw a lot of energy into making a HF job happen (IB/PE is also an area of interest and something I'd gladly do to gain exposure)... I will keep you posted :)
AQM, you are right! lol networking is really important, I feel I am pretty good at this, if there is anyway I can get a VP, associate, analyst or even an MD (lol) to talk to I believe I could create a good relationship... of course getting in contact with these people is always a challenge, but that's life :P
World Banker, that is also great advice, the only problem is I don't have a car so if I wanted a part-time internship during the Fall or Spring it may create a problem, however I'm committed enough that I'd be willing to take the bus as long as I could find the hours to match between classes, I'd even do this as an unpaid intern (without giving off the stench of desperation, haha)...
Thanks again for the replies I really appreciate any input I can get and I hope to see you guys in other parts of the forum =)
Cheers!
First, the source material.
//www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/ho-hum-to-hedge-fund //www.wallstreetoasis.com/FAQ-best-discussions-hedge-funds //www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/path-to-take-0
There are probably others out there. Do a search and see what you can find.
Now, the brutal honesty.
Will you have a very tough time breaking in?
Yes, but probably not for the reasons you think.
It's not that you're from a non target and it's not that you don't have relevant experience and it's not that you don't really have strong grades. It's that you don't have any history of demonstrated excellence or commitment in...anything, really. Not school work, not extracurriculars, not internships. With your grades in a finance major, I'd be concerned with your ability to handle the quantitative aspects of the job (and I work for a non quant firm). More pressingly, you're not really demonstrating anything akin interest in the nuts and bolts of investing.
That's a lot of strikes against you and you've not given me great confidence in the existence of counterbalancing factors.
Put another way, this is a business that requires you to be obsessive about it. You pretty much spend 60 hours in the office a week working and then another 30 outside the office thinking about working. There's a level of commitment of mind, body, and soul, that most folks can't muster. From the outside, the things that we do seem like idiosyncratic, OCD nuttiness. But insiders will tell you that is simply the price of entry. You have to be a little obsessive and a bit too passionate to work and succeed in this business. You have to be a little bit crazy.
I won't say you don't have that passion or commitment as I don't know you. But nothing you've said thus far is evidence for it.
What can you do to break in?
A finance internship would be a start. Better grades are probably a must. Lots of reading about investing wouldn't hurt. But you need something that lets people know that this is a real passion for you (or that something is a real passion for you).
Personal connections will help to some degree, but only to the degree that you can demonstrate yourself as being worth taking a risk on. I don't think I'd hire my siblings into this business if they wanted to get into it because I don't think they'd do a good job and would eventually lose me and my fund's investors money.
Should you not try to get in?
That's a tougher question. I personally would never advocate that someone not pursue their dreams.
But I would say it tends not to be a profession that people stumble into overnight and suddenly decide is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Those that do probably haven't done a ton of research into it.
You really need to figure out why you want to go into hedge funds (it's not a profession that suits everyone).
All this said, you're a college student, so you have the great luxury of time. Don't waste it
Finally, a modest to-do list:
Get some relevant experience on your resume your summer (and also during the fall semester). I think that's the greatest addressable hurdle. It can be banking, consulting, financial planning, whatever...but I believe it must come with something that you can develop a demonstrated analytical track record with. The ideal would be to have someone hand you a complex analytical problem and you being able to come up with a sufficient and convincing answer to that problem.
Double down on grades. I know Babson is one of the schools on the vanguard of grade deflation, but you don't want to be middle of the pack. There really can't be any questions about your mental horsepower. Grades are the most visible way of tracking that.
Join an investing club, finance society, CFA study group, or something to demonstrate interest in the field.. Read a couple books on investing to see if it agrees with you. Try reading an annual report to see if you can choke it down.
Do something actually interesting with the rest of your time (start a business, run a marathon, etc.).
Start networking in advance of senior year recruiting. It won't really pay off now, but it may result in early looks at your resume and skillset.
After that, it's mostly luck and sweat equity.
As someone who went from a non-target to a hedge fund - this is great advice.
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