For those who've applied/attended top-3 b-schools...

I feel like this post barely makes sense.

I think this post makes sense, anyone got some insights?

Here is what I would do: pick 5-10 schools you think you might be interested in, and look at their essay questions (blog.clearadmit.com has all the top schools' essays w/analysis). Think about how you'd like to be able to answer those questions in a few years. You'll see themes like teamwork, leadership, entrepreneurialism, etc. Be opportunistic at work for the next couple of years, looking for opportunities to prove yourself in these capacities. Also, think about your career goals and what you can do now to better prepare yourself for them (take a class, reach out to people in that field, attend professional networking events, etc.)—anything that shows interest or qualification is good.

Of course, ECs and community service are great, but the more professional experience you can talk about the better. Finally, develop strong relationships with your managers so they will write you great reviews.

Great answer. And thanks very much for the link.

hey that was really helpful, thanks AltESV but i have a quick question..

are only Manager recommendations necessary or do most MBA programs require professor recommendations as well?

Actually, they typically discourage professor recommendations—by the time you have 4-5 years work experience (avg), professors probably don't know you that well anymore, unless you have a very close ongoing relationship with them. Schools always ask for your current direct supervisor, although they are understanding if you don't use them if it will jeopardize your work/bonus. For your second recommendation (most ask for only 2, HBS asks for 3) you should also use someone at work, perhaps a past manager, your boss's boss, or someone you work with frequently. They also typically stress that they are not impressed by big names/titles. They'd much rather have a no-name manager or colleague comment in detail on you work style, strengths, weaknesses, etc. than have a rec that says "Joe is a great guy. Sincerely, Jack Welch"

MBAApply, thanks so much for the insights. This is really helpful. You addressed a key question that I had, which was exactly that while I have a bunch of the "boxes" checked (top university, sell-side experience at two bulge bracket banks, current role in private equity), I really haven't had too many extracurricular commitments, mostly because I don't have a lot of free time. However, with all the talk about being involved in the community and stuff, I can't help but think that some extracurriculars matter and I do worry to some extent that my work experience may not make up for not having other commitments outside of work (other than social ones).

Thus I have a couple questions for you, and I would also welcome the opinions of others that have gone through or are going through the MBA application process.

• I know a lot of people volunteering at soup kitchens, building homes for the less fortunate, and so on and so forth. I don't do this stuff, but on the other hand, I am very involved in my school's career network and undergraduate mentorship programs, where I am a career mentor. I'm involved in these initiatives because while I was in school, there were a number of senior students and alums who had a profound impact on my career development and I am trying to find ways to give back to current students. Would this qualify as a meaningful extracurricular/community service activity at least from the standpoint of an admissions committee, and do you think that if I frame this in the right manner, it can also qualify as good leadership experience?

• Your points #2 and #3 essentially say that for banker/private equity types, what they did in college matters a lot, presumably because they don't have much time outside of work to involve themselves in extracurriculars. But how do these people go "toe-to-toe" with people who are more active in their communities/charities, or is that not really that big of an issue? Is it generally a good strategy for these people to talk about how substantial college commitments (such as sports teams, research activities, etc.) influenced and shaped their development in the workplace, even if college was several years removed? I'm just trying to get my arms around how one's experiences prior to graduation can be made to look meaningful on an application, when the forms themselves seem to focus on what you've done since you've entered the workforce.

• Any advice as to how junior employees can demonstrate leadership in the workplace, especially in a big bank where things can be pretty bureaucratic and where you really are the lowest rung on the ladder?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

The practical thing is, something is better than nothing. However, the "I'm highly involved in my alma mater" is something adcoms will see plenty of across all types (bankers, consultants, engineers, etc.).

Honestly, the leadership thing is a little overstated by b-schools to the point where it becomes a buzzword. Leadership at its essence is about getting a bunch of people to work towards a common goal, and to be in that position to do that, you need to have earned the credibility, respect and amicability of your group to do that -- which usually takes a significant investment of effort over a sustained period of time unless you have formal authority. In other words, it takes time to be in a leadership position within any group especially if you're not given formal authority - it doesn't happen overnight. As such, unless you're in the military where there is a more formal leadership structure and the nature of the job is directing men and women towards an objective, most young people in their 20s simply don't have a lot of formal leadership experience to talk about. And if they do in a non-military (civilian) context, it's usually (if not always) in something they are truly passionate about because you need to have stayed with something long enough to have established some leadership within that group activity that you're passionate about.

In a way, it's back to basics: if you stick with what you love and enjoy for its own sake, and you're good at it, you will be in a position to take on a real leadership role in those group activities that serve what you love (if that makes any sense). You can't just cherry pick a nonprofit or charity and assume that you're going to be commanding the troops to do the impossible or anything (or even have any of them listen to you). It takes time to win people over. And you're only going to spend that time if you enjoy that particular activity to stick around long enough to earn that trust.

Of course, if you have real leadership experience, that's great - for the bankers that do, it would've been most likely in their undergrad. However, for most bankers/PE types, it's about showing leadership potential -- your ability to deal with people in situations of conflict, making clear decisions in ambiguous situations, influencing someone to change his/her mind, coming up with ideas that pull a group in a different direction, getting people to trust you, and so forth.

Which comes back to college - this is why there is a bit of a "best before" date on bankers/PE types when it comes to b-school, particularly H/S/W. If college is more than 5 years past, it starts to become ancient history and a little too long ago to have much weight. However, if it's just a few years ago (read: you're currently a 3rd year analyst applying, or you're just 1-2 years into your PE job after doing the 2 year analyst program), you're not that far removed especially if most of it took place in your junior and senior years.

As for getting involved in your community while you're working full-time - note it doesn't have to be 'charity' or 'working with poor people' -- it could be political (ahem, I heard there's an election this year), arts organizations, athletic/sports programs for the community, religious groups (getting involved in your church), and so forth. Again, it doesn't have to be charity - it should be something that gets you connected to a community, whether it's political, religious, artistic, or athletic (or "business" like trade organizations and industry-specific organizations if you really are a super business geek).

If you work in a PE, VC, HF, or IM job where you're fortunate enough not to work crazy hours (i.e. say around 50-60 hours), then you really should find a way to get involved - if you don't have the time, you don't - adcoms understand with bankers/PE types and will cut you guys more slack than other applicants; but then it will come down to your pedigree (or lack thereof) and what you did in college.

As for how junior bankers can get more leadership responsibility - for the longest time, it was working internationally in satellite offices where many were thinly staffed and the org structure even flatter (i.e. sometimes where there is no associate or VP on the deal), and as the analyst you can be given a lot more responsibility on the deal. The way I've seen this work is for example on a non-US M&A deal, the juniors in London or NYC could be doing the bulk of the modeling, comps, pitches, presentations, etc. while the analyst/associate's job in the satellite office is to help the MD manage the client, which means spending a lot of time actually interacting directly with the clients' CEOs, CFOs, VPs, etc. as the surrogate "go to guy" when the MD wasn't around. This may have completely changed in the last few years -- I have no idea. But if this is still the case, if you get the chance to transfer overseas, you may want to look into it seriously - the tradeoff is you may not develop the kind of deal expertise in say Russia or China as you would in the US (since the US SEC has the most sophisticated securities laws and the actual mechanics of many deals in the US are usually more complex, and plus if it's a gigantic non-US deal the NYC guys will still try every which way to get their fingerprints on the deal by sticking their analysts/associates/VPs on the deal team, flying the NYC MD over for "face time" and "expertise" with the client, all so the NYC MD can claim credit when it comes to their annual bonuses). Plus, the deal volume and types of deals you see will be more limited. However, the tradeoff is you can get more experience handling the interpersonal aspects of client management.

Alex Chu

MBAApply, thanks again for your thoughtful advice. It really helps to hear candid thoughts from someone like yourself that's actually gone through the process.

I recently picked up a book called "How To Get Into the Top MBA Programs" by Montauk. Have you heard of this book, and if so, did you find it to be a useful read? Are there any other books that you'd put on your "required reading" list as far as top MBA admissions are concerned?

Once again, many thanks.

The book you mentioned is certainly a good one, although I would say that you could ahem check out mine. It's in my sig.

Alex Chu