For those with poor GPAs that still managed to get a SA

Look, this industry is very competitive and time intensive. It can also be unforgiving. Therefore, it is imperative that you are sufficiently motivated and talented in order to succeed. That's why employers place such a big emphasis on GPA--it shows commitment and ambition. Frankly, firms have good reason to be leery of people with subpar GPAs, because your performance on an "objective" performance measure does not let them know that you have the requisite mindset for the industry.

That said, receiving an offer from a well-regarded firm can compensate for the GPA and increase your chances at other firms. Just don't expect everyone to come calling in the fall. At this point, your focus should be on obtaining that offer, since that's the only thing you can control. Only after that should you worry about other firms.

I don't think there are many <3.0 GPAs in banking. Best hope your dad's an MD.

there are always exceptions to the rule. As long as a low GPA isn't because you have trouble mastering new concepts rapidly, then I don't see why you wouldn't impress during your summer, and in future interviews.

come on man, hasn't this board taught you anything? put 4.0*, and then something like "in major, only includes spr. 08 classes meeting after 1:00pm" at the bottom in size 3 font...seriously, there's gotta be a way you can doctor that thing.

J/K, I would just do what computerblue said and focus on getting that offer from your internship. It'll be tough to go to a BB with a GPA that low, ESP from a non-target.

If you have a GPA below 3.0, it's pretty much impossible. Why? Even if you have all the extracurricular to go with it, no bank is going to look through your resume after seeing the <3.00 GPA. Good luck.

i just graduated (5 days ago to be exact) and will end with an approx 3.0 cumulative.

the best thing you can do is network. in fact, even if you have great grades, the job market right now is such shit that even an outstanding res. may not help you as much as you might think.

network, network, network

------
"its the running joke now, we now have fair trade with china so they send us poisoned sea food and we send them fraudulent securities."

Look at my situation....I become a father at a young age (22)
I still managed to get 2 bachelors and a master with average grades. I took a different route than most graduates and have been working a lot since I learned of my fatherhood. A parttime job was a min. of 32h per week.
I did the maximum I could given the constraint I was facing. I got rejected my ALL BB firms since the online application form scans and leave out low grades.

I was lucky enough to land a traineeship for a year at a relative small IB Bank in Amsterdam. (I live in Holland). I was 28 at that time and from 142 applicants that applied for 6 positions..they choose me. I have received an offer to join their financial markets department after the traineeship. (Money markets and Capital markets product)
You have to be willing to explain yourself and show that you are bright. It is an AGRESSIVE business and you should be that as well.

I even received an interview at MS in London for S&T 3 weeks ago but I did not get an offer because I wanted Fixed Income and they needed someone willing to do both FI and Equity. MY POINT-->There is always a way but you have to work harder than Ivy, 4.0 GPA lads.

You can choose to gain experience at a smaller boutique, get some contacts at BB's and try in a few years when the market is in a "favourable disequilibrium". You would then have a good track record and they will know you..IT IS A SMALL WORLD!!!! ( When I was interviewing at MS, they knew most people of the firm I was working)

GOOD LUCK!!!!!!!!!!!

Most people in the industry that I speak to seem shocked that my grades are so sub par. Looking back on my college experience I still am unsure how I could have ever gotten above say a 3.4 cumulative.

Honestly I think my best shot is to try to convert my SA to a FT offer. I suppose the frustrating part is when you know that if you were given an interview you would knock every fit and technical question out of the park but your being knocked because of a screening metric.

Hopefully the ball is in my court at this point and its my job to lose.

"Oh - the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion?"

About a year and a half ago I decided I wanted to return to school to pursue an MBA. At that point I was 27, and had been an engineer for about 5 years, and was one promotion away from achieving partner status at my firm. I knew that someday soon I would be running a siginificant portion of the business, and it seemed like a good idea to go back to business school while I still had the time (and before I had too much money tied up in the business).

Fast forward to today. After doing the whole MBA application thing, meeting tons of students a top schools, and reading tons of material on post-MBA career paths, I now find myself strongly drawn to a career in finance. IB seems like the most feasible point of entry post-MBA. However, since deciding to pursue a career in banking I've come to realize that I am already miles behind in a race I didn't even know I was running.

First of all, I only applied to three business schools. Basically, I chose these schools based on their reputations as the top engineering schools which also have business schools. I totally missed the boat on whole concept of target vs. non-target school. I was rejected at the one M7 school I applied to, but accepted at two top-15s. Only now after paying the deposit at one of those schools, renting an apartment, and quiting my job do I know how big a deal it is to be at an M7 school vs. a top 15 when it comes to IB placement.

The second big thing is UG GPA. My GPA from college wasn't great (~3.0), but until now I'd never given it a second though. As an engineer at a top UG engineering school, sub-3.0 GPAs are the norm (I finished in the top 33% of my class with a 3.0), but job offers are basically thrown at you nonetheless if you've done good work in a lab or at an internship. I've never even put my GPA on a resume before. I'm terrified to think that the grades I as an 17-20 year old could determine the outcome of a job search at nearly 30 years of age. The IB job search process is so structured, with such hard cut-offs tied to pedegree and abstract quanitative measures (SAT/GMAT scores, GPA).

The only thing I can do is hope that through networking I can highlight some of my less quantifiable accomplishments. Personally, when I have been in the position to hire employees I have placed much more weight on real world accomplishments such as success at previous jobs/internships, publication record, and recommendations from collegues. I think I will be able to find employers in banking who feel the same. Hopefully the OP will too. At least we can both take comfort in the fact that we are not alone.

I met a couple MD's at a BB and I basically told them my story. They seemed impressed with my knowledge about the market and how well spoken I was of current events. They told me it is sort of ridiculous how the entire recruiting process works and how much it has changed in the past 10 years, to the point where they would not have gotten jobs with todays more rigorous expectations.

My whole reason for posting this is I would like to have a backup plan. I dont plan on screwing up this summer, but it would be nice to have a backup in case they were not able to extend me a FT offer. The firm actually has been rapidly expanding despite the current economy so this is a good sign. However, im not sure how often they take people straight out of undergrad. They seem more like the type of firm to bring on experienced hires.

"Oh - the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion?"

what do you think you will get in IB that you won't as a senior in your engineering firm? Just curious..

It is always good to have a backup but you should focus on transforming the SA into FT. If that does not work..CRY out for a day and then MOVE ON!!!!

I have been in banking for almost a year now and I will tell you..IT IS SMALL WORLD!!!!
Networking is ESSENTIAL!!!!
The easiest way to get into a BB without an Ivy and 4.0 GPA is to enter with work experience and a good network.
If you are in trading trasuries or whatever, know the other traders, attend annual tading seminars etc. etc.
If I networked during college...I would be in a BB rather than a local boutique, 100% PROCENT SURE!!!!!

DON'T worry about the GPA etc. etc. There is more than one way to Rome, one easier than the other, it is yours to find that road. Like I said before, You need to be AGGRESSIVE, it is an agressive business.

PS. Is your SA at an BB?

In making the switch from engineering to IB I'm looking for more of a lot of things:

The first is thing I'm looking for is more of challenge, and excitment I experienced at the begining of my career. My wife is a wildlife biologist. Everyday she comes home stoked on her job with an new story to tell. In her free time she reads field guides and academic journals, and practices her species identification skills on hikes. When she has to get up at 5:00am for a bird survey and ends up in the field until 10:00pm she doesn't mind. Whenever I get stuck in the office past six I am bitter. On the weekends the last thing I want to do is read another paper on anything related to my job. I'm just sick of what I do. The thought of drawing up another drainage plan makes me physically ill.

What I do read in my free time is Business Week, the Economist, and the Harvard Business Review. I've been through Liar's Poker three times, Barbarians at the Gate twice, the Accidental Investment Banker a couple of times - you get the point. I'm so amped on learning anything I can.

Second thing I am looking for is more respect. As an UG, engineering is sold to you as a profession. You picture yourself doing inovative design work, coming up with novel solutions to complex problems, and publishing papers in top notch journals. When you actually get on the job though, you realize you are pretty much a slightly brainier version of an assembly line worker. You crank out another drainage plan or detention basin design which is 99.9% like the last hundred you did. Once you've written all the macros, the job does itself. Your a cog in a machine that can be easily replaced. You know it, and your salary and 3-5% annual raises and four figure bonus checks reflect it.

If your personable and clients like you, you make partner, but then you become a salesmen and are no longer an engineer. Most of the partners in my firm have long forgotten how to actually do any of the engineering work we do. You can make a bit more money once your able to take a cut of the profits, but there are hundreds of small engineering firms out there and the margins are razor thin.

Finally, I would be lying if I didn't say that I am looking for more money. After a few years as a partner at a firm like mine (~$5M in annual revenue), your looking at a low six figure salary (100-120K) plus your cut of the profit sharing (maybe another 15-20K). Not bad by any stretch, but if you consider that a first year analyst at a BB I-bank can make more than that in a good year with much less training and experience, and no legal responsibility for his results (as a licensed professional engineer I can wind up in jail if my work is found to be faulty), then it doesn't look so good.

Maybe I'll find what I'm looking for in IB, and maybe I won't, but I'll regret it if I don't try. I can always go back to engineering if I want, and the MBA will open up a lot of other potentially interesting and lucurative career options (I hope), so I'm going for it.

offer is not at a BB, but I believe this will be a good fit for me to start out. I am very focused on the type trading I want to work in. Everything becomes a means of making this a reality. Becoming the best block equity trader I can be. I am under the impression that the BB's dont give you a whole lot of say and rather you are placed according to where they have space, where they need coverage, and based on your resume/skillset.

In particular I am interested in the mechanics of trading a market. Trying to find out where the liquidity is, buying low and selling high without tipping your hand to the market is the ultimate puzzle to me. This is an important skill as a flow trader.

I have high hopes for the experience and think it will be good fit and place to start my career. Looks like I just have to prove that im worth hiring FT this summer. As I said before the firm is rapidly expanding so this should help me. I am sort of under the impression that in S&T its almost always your job to lose.

"Oh - the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion?"

The only people I have seen hired with GPA's around 3.0 are either:
a. relatives, friends or past SA
or
b. whiz kids who were almost too smart for school and as a result just didn't give a shit.....these guys are rare and almost always end up as traders/quants

Or those who've networked their ass off and have generally avoided the GPA question. It happens more often than you'd think, so long as you're solid on the technicals and well-spoken.

So the underlying theme in this post is if you had a GPA around or lower than 3.0 in undergrad, your prospects of breaking into this industry, outside of networking, are slim to none.

Does going back to school for your MBA and getting excellent grades there put you back in the ballgame? This is where I stand right now. My undergrad GPA was terrible (2.5) and I've been working in government for 2 years. I'm looking for any way into this industry. My plan is to go back to school this fall for an MBA and hopefully achieve much better grades because I will actually take it seriously this time. Is this a decent plan or am I wasting all that tuition $$$?

I think you need to make sure you get into a top tier MBA program. Otherwise, it will be pretty difficult, if not moreso.

You need to get your resume in without HR first seeing it. So like other people said, network.

How did you find a MM S&T? I didn't even know there was flow trading where the desk takes inventory besides at the big banks. Or are you just doing agency trading?

Its an agency desk, and most Equity desks at the BB's do a very large % as agency. They only commit capital when they have to.

My mentor is a very large client. He sees great potential in me and wanted to help me out. I dont want to go into any more detail as I probably have already.

"Oh - the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion?"

Yay, I now have over a 3.0 gpa that i can put on my resume. Good for me.

"Oh - the ladies ever tell you that you look like a fucking optical illusion?"

I'm sure there are some ways. If the company your father runs is being acquired and the bank will realize a $30 mm fee.. it doesn't really matter what your GPA is.