Former Big 4, now buy-side analyst, ask me anything
Fellow Monkeys,
I have been reading WSO since my sophomore year in college but have just recently decided to start posting advice. My #1 reason for the late entry:
A majority of users here are college students who offer bro-science and I wanted to make sure I had relevant experience to back-up my suggestions.
Quick background on me:
Non-target state school, started at Big 4 Audit right after college, stayed there for 2 years, obtained CPA license and was able to parlay my skills into an analyst position on the buy side.
How I got to where I am:
Perseverance and luck - I've always wanted to end up on the buy-side and after failing to land any IBD offers after college, I realized the "traditional" path for me to get to the buy-side would have to be: Audit --> TAS --> IBD/MBA --> PE/VC/HF.
As such, I worked my ass off for the first 2 years in audit, obtained top rankings in my class and began the transition to TAS after receiving the senior title. I was working with a headhunter looking for TAS opportunities and the headhunter was nice enough to throw my name into the pile of resumes for one of their HF clients; I landed a phone interview, and the rest is history. I rejected a TAS offer to work on the buy-side and haven't looked back since.
Reason for my post:
I've been seeing a lot of accounting posts on here, much more so than when I first started reading WSO, and have decided to offer my experience to help any prospective accounting students who want to land into finance. Please leave questions below and I will respond accordingly.
I feel like I can shed much insight into the audit process, the TAS process, and much more, but would rather answer direct questions than post a 10,000 word post about my experience.
Quick note, if you PM me, expect a delay in my response; I will respond to replies on the board much quicker than PM's as I want my knowledge to be publicly available.
Non-target here. Thank you
Non-target here. Thank you for posting your story; keeps us motivated. I think there are going to be a few nay-sayers here -- stupid HS kids who will say that your story is made up. Any way you can get a star to add credibility?
JamesHetfield: Non-target
Non-target here. Thank you for posting your story; keeps us motivated. I think there are going to be a few nay-sayers here -- stupid HS kids who will say that your story is made up. Any way you can get a star to add credibility?
.
JamesHetfield: Non-target
Non-target here. Thank you for posting your story; keeps us motivated. I think there are going to be a few nay-sayers here -- stupid HS kids who will say that your story is made up. Any way you can get a star to add credibility?
Done.
Congrats When you joined the
Congrats
When you joined the buyside, how did you describe your Big 4 experience? Do you find your work from Big 4 to be relevant? How did you find the headhunter to work with?
When you were interviewing
When you were interviewing with the HF / headhunter did you say you were interested in working at a HF or just 'buy-side'? I would think if you just said 'buyside' they would blow you off as someone who was just interested in getting out of audit as opposed to getting into something specific (HF, PE, etc.) This is at least the case in my experience
Dogon: Congrats When you
Congrats
When you joined the buyside, how did you describe your Big 4 experience? Do you find your work from Big 4 to be relevant? How did you find the headhunter to work with?
Not following your first question - are you talking about during my interview or when I talk to fellow colleagues?
Second question - depends on the companies you audit. For my VC/PE/HF clients, work is completely irrelevant. For my tech companies, I do believe that I have a better understanding of their footnotes and as such, a better understanding of how to utilize their financials in my analyses.
Third question - LinkedIn; Big 4 employees are constantly contacted by headhunters on LNKD, but I did not use the people who contacted me as they only wanted to sell me on accounting positions. I clicked on their connections and found other headhunters focused on finance in their company and reached out to them directly.
How much experience did you
How much experience did you have with valuation and equity research prior to your interview? Was this something that you were doing on your own already, and were able to pitch some ideas - or were they just looking to see how adept you were with accounting?
What were some of the things you had listed on your resume that you think distinguished you from others. Was there a specific project that kept coming up during the interview?
I'm just trying to get a feel for how you leveraged your audit experience.
Ordinary men avoid trouble. Extraordinary men turn it to their advantage.
How did you land a buy side
How did you land a buy side gig from audit? When they asked technical questions, were you able to answer them or did they stick to fit type due to your background? I guess I just dont understand how the transition would work since they seem like totally different positions.
Frank Sinatra - "Alcohol may be man's worst enemy, but the bible says love your enemy."
MistaBooks: When you were
When you were interviewing with the HF / headhunter did you say you were interested in working at a HF or just 'buy-side'? I would think if you just said 'buyside' they would blow you off as someone who was just interested in getting out of audit as opposed to getting into something specific (HF, PE, etc.) This is at least the case in my experience
You are correct. I have several Big 4 friends who are still stuck in audit because of this reason. I was actually working with the headhunter on landing a TAS gig (side note: you should never reveal your full hand; if I told the headhunter about my ultimate path -- audit -> TAS -> IBD/MBA -> PE/VC/HF, I'm almost 100% positive they would have ignored me like my other friends) as TAS is a common exit for skilled auditors. I just happened to build good rapport and the headhunter threw this out to me. I was currently in the second round interviews, but had already expressed to the headhunter my concerns about the Company and relocation so the headhunter kept looking for me.
Learning how to build rapport is probably one of the best skills I learned from audit.
What kind of positions did
What kind of positions did the headhunters tell you about when you were in Audit? Was it mainly F500 companies, and also was it mostly pure accounting, or were there positions in FP&A, Treasury, Investor relations etc?
Do you think Big 4 is a better option than a FLDP at a large F100 company if the goal is to become a manager/director in Corp Fin, in more of FP&A, Treasury rather than controllership, or SEC reporting.
Thanks for making yourself
Thanks for making yourself available for questions. Your LinkedIn strategy is genius - that is the answer to the first problem of getting the interview as an auditor. As for the second step of acing the interview, what did you say to convince them to hire an auditor? Did you try to leverage your limited TAS experience?
Great post - FYI I posted a link to this in my group Big 4 Accounting.
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/group/big-4-accounting
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/group/entrepreneur
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/group/wso-pittsburgh
Which group within PwC TAS or
Which group within PwC TAS or Deloitte FAS would you say will help the most in trying to get onto the buyside? Also what's the current strategy/role at your firm right now? Ever consider the CFA in addition with your CPA?
I think I'm one of the few people that would be willing to read your 10,000 word post about your experience btw.
equitydigger: How much
How much experience did you have with valuation and equity research prior to your interview? Was this something that you were doing on your own already, and were able to pitch some ideas - or were they just looking to see how adept you were with accounting?
What were some of the things you had listed on your resume that you think distinguished you from others. Was there a specific project that kept coming up during the interview?
I'm just trying to get a feel for how you leveraged your audit experience.
It was much more accounting intensive for me. I got absolutely crushed on one question (I was taking double shots at the airport bar after the interview in an attempt to retroactively black out how badly I fumbled) but the headhunter informed me sometime after that the partners were not expecting me to know the answer given my background and were much more interested in my thought process and my ability to think under stress. I fully believe that at boutique firms, since they don't usually compete for your stereotypical GS/MS candidates, that they would rather identify someone with potential and mold from scratch versus dealing with some douche who believes their old firm's methodology is the greatest thing since sliced bread. It definitely varies across boutique firms, but one common theme across all the major players is that their interviews are much more rigid and structured. This is also why I fully believe that working at a boutique firm is the best way to break in.
I requested IPO projects as those are universally known across the audit spectrum as the most intensive engagements (maybe with the exception of restatements, but who wants to work on those? Much cooler to say you were on an IPO than on a restatement and not to mention that engagement dynamics are much more enjoyable as you're helping the client make money vs. realizing that your firm messed up and are now correcting your mistakes - clients are much more helpful and friendly during an IPO engagement vs. a restatement). Given my first year performance, I was given the opportunity to essentially senior another IPO engagement (I did 2 IPO's during my 2 years), which resulted in me being directly responsible for 6+ associate-level members among many other responsibilities. After the IPO, I essentially seniored all my other engagements even though I had yet to reach the standard 2-year mark for promotion to senior level.
It is hard to distinguish yourself among your audit peers as you're all generally doing the same thing, but there are a few other things such as leading a technical seminar on an industry-specific accounting topic. While reading accounting guidance is by far one of the worst things I have ever done (I'd rather go through I-week again than read accounting guidance all night long), it demonstrates one's ability to understand and explain concepts as well as one's personal drive to succeed.
yeahright: How did you land a
How did you land a buy side gig from audit? When they asked technical questions, were you able to answer them or did they stick to fit type due to your background? I guess I just dont understand how the transition would work since they seem like totally different positions.
Technical accounting questions, basic finance questions and a lot of "walk me through how you would do this..." type of questions.
Please see my response to equitydigger (I just wrote it), and let me know if you have any follow-up questions.
AsianMonky: What kind of
What kind of positions did the headhunters tell you about when you were in Audit? Was it mainly F500 companies, and also was it mostly pure accounting, or were there positions in FP&A, Treasury, Investor relations etc?
Do you think Big 4 is a better option than a FLDP at a large F100 company if the goal is to become a manager/director in Corp Fin, in more of FP&A, Treasury rather than controllership, or SEC reporting.
The first headhunter who contacted me tried to sell me on a "finance" position at a F10 Company. The headhunter sold the position very well (but now I'd prefer to chalk it up to my inexperience dealing with headhunters), saying it was purely an FP&A role. However, after I got in touch with the Company and went through the first round, I quickly found out that while it was labeled "financial analyst", the duties involved were much more aligned with a senior accountant role - primary responsibilities were month-end close, help with audit procedures, etc... The only reason there was "finance" involved at all was because they said that I would be working closely with the FP&A group on their analyses. Given my experience auditing companies, I knew that "working closely with the FP&A groups" was actually just providing them with month-end actuals. Headhunters are amazing salespeople.
Side note: This is a great example for all college students to ignore the title and look at what your daily responsibilities are; I audited a company where the "Controller" was actually just the personal assistant to the CFO and didn't know jack shit about accounting; she didn't even have a CPA license. This was quickly corroborated every time I asked her a question and all her responses were to ask the CFO.
After that, I stopped responding to the headhunters who were offering me positions and went a different route (described in my response to DogOn's question, please see therein and let me know if you have further questions).
The FLDP question is difficult to answer. The great thing about working for a Big 4 is that they have so many different arms and if you are a stellar performer, you will be given the opportunity to rotate into one of those service lines, at which point, I personally believe Big 4 finance (e.g., Deloitte Corporate Finance) would be better than the FLDP program. However, if you are not a stellar performer, you will be stuck in audit, in which case the FLDP position is much better. Also note that it will require 2 years minimum before they will let you rotate into a different program at the Big 4, so there is a lot of opportunity cost involved. I really wish I could give you a straight answer on this, but there is always more than one way to skin a cat.
+1 Thanks for this.
Ordinary men avoid trouble. Extraordinary men turn it to their advantage.
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Ordinary men avoid trouble. Extraordinary men turn it to their advantage.
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"Don't let making a living prevent you from making a life."
John R. Wooden
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