Pages

2/18/12

Hey guys, been lurking on these boards for a while...can't believe my first post is about relationships, but so it is. All the depressing talk around here about marriage and relationships (and in real life) made me realize that a good thing is REALLY hard to come by.

Basically, known this girl since college. She's the rare perfect relationship material type - cute, smart, cooks, plays sports and good at it too, video games (?!), works in finance, can laugh w me, blah blah blah. Always had a thing for her but lately it's dawned on me that if I don't make a move she might get taken real fast...so, what to do?

Thing I don't get with her is that she's friends with a bunch of guys but she's staying single...and no she's not a slut, we run in the same circles so it's easy to tell. So now I'm like one of the guys she hangs out with as friends...no idea how to break out of this position...and I'm on this site on a Saturday night. Yea..how to do it with the LEAST damage potential to friendship?

Advice? Is it even worth risking? Or just forget about it and move on?

Comments (158)

2/19/12

You've come to exactly the right place.

The WSO Advantage - Land Your Dream Job

Financial Modeling Training

IB Templates, M&A, LBO, Valuation.

Wall St. Interview Secrets Revealed

30,000+ sold & REAL questions.

Resume Help from Finance Pros

Land More Interviews.

Find Your Mentor

Realistic Mock Interviews.

2/19/12

She probably has no idea about your feelings so making a big move might be too risky. I think maybe asking her to a movie or lunch, something casual, would be a good idea. Then maybe a week after you could ask her out to dinner which would be more of a date, and that way it'd be obvious without you really having to say it. If she says yes, she probably likes you, and if no, then well at least you got your answer.

2/19/12

This may not be one of the best advice, but how about just explicitly asking her out on a date? Don't do one of those "Would you like to get coffee with me?" questions because that can seem very vague and she'd probably take it as a friendly gesture, but actually express your emotions straight up with her and asking her on a date. This may depend on the type of person you are though, because I'm more on the straight-forward side of the spectrum when it comes to expressing emotions, so I feel comfortable with this method.

2/19/12

You gotta create attraction...friendship is cool but it doesn't create attraction...How do you do it? You gotta talk to her about interesting things not the common things friends talk about (problems, work). You gotta tease her and make small jokes at her and then flirt and very importantly watch how she responds. You gotta show her that you are a price she would like to have, so you gotta act like you are the price. Hang out with another girl and make sure she knows about it and sees it. Leave her hanging by not telling her the full story about whatever. Don't be needy and beyond all stop being a caring friend. That's unattractive. A combination of these things might spur a spark of attraction in her (assuming you are alright physically) ...Good luck

Do what you want not what you can!

In reply to forgetfulmonkey
2/19/12
forgetfulmonkey:

She probably has no idea about your feelings so making a big move might be too risky.

If you are friend now...making a straight forward bold headed move will make it all look awkward and uncomfortable (so i agree with the comment above) ...you have make sure she sends you the right signals...it's a one way street.

Do what you want not what you can!

2/19/12

Be more sexually attractive.

The fastest way to a woman's heart is through her sister [in your context: other hos]

Show her you're wanted by others and she'll realize she's sitting on an accessible treasure. When you show her you have options, you'll be all the more desirable. It's exactly like leveraging offers.

2/19/12

Hi,

I'm only posting in this thread because It needs more prestigiousness(no offense).

My advice is: models and bottles, pre nup and hit it and quit it.

Oh, and sack up.

-Blastoise

2/19/12

Tell her that your dad is from Canada

Power and Money do not change men; they only unmask them

2/19/12

Hold on OP. Before I answer your question, let me call tech support to see if they can help fix this pics not loading problem.

"Have you ever tried to use a chain with 3 weak links? I have, and now I no longer own an arctic wolf."
-Dwight Schrute

2/19/12

you are using right?

2/19/12

oh dude u have to enable html

2/19/12

bro u gotta hop up out da bed, turn yo swag on, take a look in tha mirror say WHAT UP. Get dat money, throw some hunnets in her face and let her know u can ball.

then she gon know u fo real.

2/19/12

If you've dropped a hint before and she friend zoned you after that, it's probably a hint back from her that she's not interested...

I don't accept sacrifices and I don't make them. ... If ever the pleasure of one has to be bought by the pain of the other, there better be no trade at all. A trade by which one gains and the other loses is a fraud.

2/19/12

Ask her out to dinner and a movie, and a few more dinners after that. Escalate the conversation to something beyond the typical friend zone bullshit. Gauge her reactions. If positive, find the opportune time to let her know how you feel. If she says no, be cool with the fact that you at least have clarity. Not knowing where you stand with a lady is stressful. If you cannot be friends after that, it sucks, but so be it. You were not content merely being friends with her, so you went for it. All or nothing. You deal with the blow and move on.

In reply to Tennis Champ
2/19/12
Tennis Champ:

Be more sexually attractive.

Yeah. Become tall and good looking. That should help...

2/19/12

Get her drunk and have her make some bad decisions involving you.

It's easier for her to think of you as 'boyfriend material' if you've already done something with her.

2/19/12
2/19/12

Date other girls and have her find out. Take her out to drinks. Feel her up and then escalate to kissing, groping and then sex. If she stops you, keep trying until she removes herself from the situation. Saying no but staying there means, keep going.

If you don't get anything after all that, she may not to talk to you again but who cares since you just dropped someone who you weren't sleeping with anyway.

In reply to cibo
2/19/12
cibo:

Date other girls and have her find out. Take her out to drinks. Feel her up and then escalate to kissing, groping and then sex. If she stops you, keep trying until she removes herself from the situation. Saying no but staying there means, keep going.

If you don't get anything after all that, she may not to talk to you again but who cares since you just dropped someone who you weren't sleeping with anyway.

Yes, I like this. Women actually secretly love domination, and they love saying "no" while getting ravaged.

In reply to Tennis Champ
2/19/12
Tennis Champ:
cibo:

Date other girls and have her find out. Take her out to drinks. Feel her up and then escalate to kissing, groping and then sex. If she stops you, keep trying until she removes herself from the situation. Saying no but staying there means, keep going.

If you don't get anything after all that, she may not to talk to you again but who cares since you just dropped someone who you weren't sleeping with anyway.

Yes, I like this. Women actually secretly love domination, and they love saying "no" while getting ravaged.

So do lawyers.

However OP, from someone who got continuously friendzoned, I can tell you there are some very simple steps to take.

First of all, defriend yourself. Attraction for women is not the same as attraction for men. Availability and perceived desirability by others, is sadly in the top 5.

You are now only allowed to initiate conversation with her 30% of the time. (I'm quantifying this so you can keep track of it, measuring gets results).

You must decline at least 25% of the social invites where she will also be, be polite but evasive in your reasons. Make sure you know where they are going and dont go near there. Being caught at as a liar will do more damage than cutting your cock off. Also dont stay in your room, same reasons. i'm not a natural liar, and couldn't lie to a girls i like that much's face anyway, so the way I did this was to actually create other engagements to go to.

Hit the fucking gym, or if that isn't an option, find $200 and get yourself some free weights, a floor mat and a workout bench.

The perception in her mind you are trying to create is to go from: Guaranteed guy around who i like whenever i need him/get on with bullshit yada to:

Selfimproving guy who's getting what he wants from life and can pick any girl he wants, I want him to pick me.

It's all mostly an illusion.

If you cant be bothered to put that effort into yourself to get her, then I dont believe you'll put in the effort to keep her.

PM me for more info, my longer posts get tl;dr'ed so I kept this relatively short.

(from someone who went from no girls to never single, unattractive to an 9/10 (according to an underwear model). Personally I can't tell i look any different but I carry myself differently.

2/19/12

Working so hard to get 1 girl.

I say move on, man. Get with her friend/s instead. Only then will she open her eyes a bit.

In reply to trazer985
2/19/12
trazer985:
Tennis Champ:
cibo:

Date other girls and have her find out. Take her out to drinks. Feel her up and then escalate to kissing, groping and then sex. If she stops you, keep trying until she removes herself from the situation. Saying no but staying there means, keep going.

If you don't get anything after all that, she may not to talk to you again but who cares since you just dropped someone who you weren't sleeping with anyway.

Yes, I like this. Women actually secretly love domination, and they love saying "no" while getting ravaged.

So do lawyers.

However OP, from someone who got continuously friendzoned, I can tell you there are some very simple steps to take.

First of all, defriend yourself. Attraction for women is not the same as attraction for men. Availability and perceived desirability by others, is sadly in the top 5.

You are now only allowed to initiate conversation with her 30% of the time. (I'm quantifying this so you can keep track of it, measuring gets results).

You must decline at least 25% of the social invites where she will also be, be polite but evasive in your reasons. Make sure you know where they are going and dont go near there. Being caught at as a liar will do more damage than cutting your cock off. Also dont stay in your room, same reasons. i'm not a natural liar, and couldn't lie to a girls i like that much's face anyway, so the way I did this was to actually create other engagements to go to.

Hit the fucking gym, or if that isn't an option, find $200 and get yourself some free weights, a floor mat and a workout bench.

The perception in her mind you are trying to create is to go from: Guaranteed guy around who i like whenever i need him/get on with bullshit yada to:

Selfimproving guy who's getting what he wants from life and can pick any girl he wants, I want him to pick me.

It's all mostly an illusion.

If you cant be bothered to put that effort into yourself to get her, then I dont believe you'll put in the effort to keep her.

PM me for more info, my longer posts get tl;dr'ed so I kept this relatively short.

(from someone who went from no girls to never single, unattractive to an 9/10 (according to an underwear model). Personally I can't tell i look any different but I carry myself differently.

From a chick who has ALOT of male friends friendzoned. This guy has probably gotten the closest.
It's either a game... but there is the time investment factor.

Or you are up front. DO NOT listen to guys who say invite her to dinner etc without making it clear it's a date. I have seen this happen to many male friends of mine who don't get the hints from the chicks they are chasing that I pick up straight away. I think I may just write a book soon "She's just not that into you"

2/19/12

Now you just wait until she falls asleep.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.

2/19/12

Was anyone else disappointed in Blastoise's response?

2/19/12

So cliche... If you're not ready to lose her as a friend, you won't have her as your girl.

The OP is definitely in love & very emotionally invested in this woman/girl... I've seen this so many times... trazer985 is on the right track... you have to stop treating her as your friend and start thinking of her as a potential girl to date/bang.

You need to change the way you relate to her.
Don't give her advice. Don't tell her your problems. Don't do her favours. Don't be her shoulder to cry on. Don't have deep philosophical/intellectual conversations. Instead, tease her a bit, flirt, etc... Tell her what you want instead of asking for her opinion, etc... Make sure you date / bang other women... Don't be too picky about this. Start this afternoon.

If you're not willing to let go of the friendship before you are with her and treat her as just another girl, you will not be successful in dating her... You need to be able to walk away form her in order to have her...

FYI, hate to be the one that breaks this to you, but she has certainly banged one or more of the guys in her "circle"... Most likely it is the sleaziest one, or the one you dislike the most... You need to accept this fact as well.

Nearly every attractive girl I've been with has a single "friend" who is clearly in love with her and at her beck & call... Don't be that guy... He doesn't get any...

2/19/12

When it comes to girls you gotta put your balls on the table. But, if your already in the friend zone it's probably too late. I'd say your best bet is not to talk to her for a year or so, and when you do talk to her again make up a very interesting life story about what you've been doing and lie about how successful you are. Also, try to accidentally run into her when your with sleazy looking sluts.

Competition is a sin.

-John D. Rockefeller

In reply to Relinquis
2/19/12
Relinquis:

So cliche... If you're not ready to lose her as a friend, you won't have her as your girl.

The OP is definitely in love & very emotionally invested in this woman/girl... I've seen this so many times... trazer985 is on the right track... you have to stop treating her as your friend and start thinking of her as a potential girl to date/bang.

You need to change the way you relate to her.
Don't give her advice. Don't tell her your problems. Don't do her favours. Don't be her shoulder to cry on. Don't have deep philosophical/intellectual conversations. Instead, tease her a bit, flirt, etc... Tell her what you want instead of asking for her opinion, etc... Make sure you date / bang other women... Don't be too picky about this. Start this afternoon.

If you're not willing to let go of the friendship before you are with her and treat her as just another girl, you will not be successful in dating her... You need to be able to walk away form her in order to have her...

FYI, hate to be the one that breaks this to you, but she has certainly banged one or more of the guys in her "circle"... Most likely it is the sleaziest one, or the one you dislike the most... You need to accept this fact as well.

Nearly every attractive girl I've been with has a single "friend" who is clearly in love with her and at her beck & call... Don't be that guy... He doesn't get any...

Listen to Trazer & Relinquis...I've seen this so many times it's sad.

Unfortunately, the guy that is usually asking this question is so lost / blind that he will take some of the other horrible advice dished out in this thread because it's easier and he's seen to many romantic comedies.

Also, props to Cluelessfromoz - very few women actually will acknowledge that what Trazer / Relinquis said is your best shot.

Good luck.

The WSO Advantage - Land Your Dream Job

Financial Modeling Training

IB Templates, M&A, LBO, Valuation.

Wall St. Interview Secrets Revealed

30,000+ sold & REAL questions.

Resume Help from Finance Pros

Land More Interviews.

Find Your Mentor

Realistic Mock Interviews.

2/19/12
2/19/12

Friend zoned. Reddit?.....THIS IS WALL STREET OASIS!!! *kicks you into super deep hole.*

In reply to Hooked on LEAPS
2/19/12
Hooked on LEAPS:

When it comes to girls you gotta put your balls on the table. But, if your already in the friend zone it's probably too late. I'd say your best bet is not to talk to her for a year or so, and when you do talk to her again make up a very interesting life story about what you've been doing and lie about how successful you are. Also, try to accidentally run into her when your with sleazy looking sluts.

i liked that one.

In reply to RagnarDanneskjold
2/19/12
RagnarDanneskjold:

Friend zoned. Reddit?.....THIS IS WALL STREET OASIS!!! *kicks you into super deep hole.*

Hah

2/19/12
2/19/12

trazer where's the longer post? gogo

2/19/12

Thanks guys for the comments...yea this thread is a bit soft, but then I'm a guy in finance working way too many hours and the girls I'm surrounded by are all type A passive aggressive control freaks, and I'm at the point of my life where I hate the feeling of sitting across the table from random chicks that can't carry a conversation to save their own lives - thought that guys here might relate a little better to my predicament.

Tried detach and ignore, sort of backfired. Ended up in awkward situations with girls who I'd want to slap every time they said something retarded, which was about once every five minutes...you know what i mean...

The girl has too many guys around her and she treats them (me included) all like her bros more than anything, definitely not your typical emotional train wreck...which makes it even harder to pull off a stunt like detach/ignore.

Hardest thing is that I've been friends with this chick for 3 years...yea, wtf is wrong with me, I have no fucking clue...

In reply to TeejNyc
2/19/12
TeejNyc:

Hardest thing is that I've been friends with this chick for 3 years...yea, wtf is wrong with me, I have no fucking clue...

You're odds just decreased exponentially. Disappear for 3 years and try again.

Competition is a sin.

-John D. Rockefeller

2/19/12

Take her on 3 dates.

After the third date you will feel if she cares for you in a romantic kind of way. If not say fuck her and delete her from her life, txt messages - im adresses - facebook - etc

It will make your life better, you won't think about her as often.

Trust me I had to do it when I have up Xbox 360 and World of Warcraft

In reply to TeejNyc
2/19/12

My plan of get her really drunk until bad decisions are made still seems like a reasonable option. At the three year point in a friendzone relationship there are very few options.

In reply to TeejNyc
2/19/12
TeejNyc:

Thanks guys for the comments...yea this thread is a bit soft, but then I'm a guy in finance working way too many hours and the girls I'm surrounded by are all type A passive aggressive control freaks, and I'm at the point of my life where I hate the feeling of sitting across the table from random chicks that can't carry a conversation to save their own lives - thought that guys here might relate a little better to my predicament.

Tried detach and ignore, sort of backfired. Ended up in awkward situations with girls who I'd want to slap every time they said something retarded, which was about once every five minutes...you know what i mean...

The girl has too many guys around her and she treats them (me included) all like her bros more than anything, definitely not your typical emotional train wreck...which makes it even harder to pull off a stunt like detach/ignore.

Hardest thing is that I've been friends with this chick for 3 years...yea, wtf is wrong with me, I have no fucking clue...

im gonna lose my patience with this gimp soon. Do you want this girl or not? Put some fucking effort in, or better yet, give me her number and i'll remind you of the feeling you get when you see some dbag dating your girl.

it doesnt matter that they're airheads, its female competition.

put it this way. Your method hasnt worked. whatever you do will feel alien to you. Just spend the $ and get some weights anyway. Do it tomorrow. I'll help you if you put the effort in, don't and you're on your own, schmuck.

In reply to trazer985
2/19/12
trazer985:
TeejNyc:

Thanks guys for the comments...yea this thread is a bit soft, but then I'm a guy in finance working way too many hours and the girls I'm surrounded by are all type A passive aggressive control freaks, and I'm at the point of my life where I hate the feeling of sitting across the table from random chicks that can't carry a conversation to save their own lives - thought that guys here might relate a little better to my predicament.

Tried detach and ignore, sort of backfired. Ended up in awkward situations with girls who I'd want to slap every time they said something retarded, which was about once every five minutes...you know what i mean...

The girl has too many guys around her and she treats them (me included) all like her bros more than anything, definitely not your typical emotional train wreck...which makes it even harder to pull off a stunt like detach/ignore.

Hardest thing is that I've been friends with this chick for 3 years...yea, wtf is wrong with me, I have no fucking clue...

im gonna lose my patience with this gimp soon. Do you want this girl or not? Put some fucking effort in, or better yet, give me her number and i'll remind you of the feeling you get when you see some dbag dating your girl.

it doesnt matter that they're airheads, its female competition.

put it this way. Your method hasnt worked. whatever you do will feel alien to you. Just spend the $ and get some weights anyway. Do it tomorrow. I'll help you if you put the effort in, don't and you're on your own, schmuck.

Dude if I get another set of weights I'd have 2 sets of bowflex stashed in my apartment and look retarded...

Aside from that, you're right. I know I'm acting like a piece of shit right now and I need to just stop moping around like a loser and change things up.

2/19/12

^ you gonna argue everything i say?

In reply to trazer985
2/19/12
trazer985:

better yet, give me her number and i'll remind you of the feeling you get when you see some dbag dating your girl.

Classic line, love it.

2/19/12

The very fact that a female is acknowledging that being kind to a girl, having intellectual conversations with her, getting to know her, laughing with her, giving her advice, helping her out in times of need is less effective than being a flirtatious dick with nice arms basically shows why men generally don't respect women or treat them well. I'm a genuinely nice guy, but I've picked up on this very fact that women have no souls and I've upped my game 10-fold the last 2 or 3 years as a result of it. It's a pathetic commentary on American/Western women.

The real gems are the percentage of women who buck this trend. If you find a woman who is more interested in a man's character than she's interested in playing games then you may have found wife material. Eventually looks fade and flirting loses its flavor--once that happens, all that's left is character, and as it is said, beauty is skin deep but ugly is clear to the bone.

In reply to Virginia Tech 4ever
2/19/12
Virginia Tech 4ever:

The very fact that a female is acknowledging that being kind to a girl, having intellectual conversations with her, getting to know her, laughing with her, giving her advice, helping her out in times of need is less effective than being a flirtatious dick with nice arms basically shows why men generally don't respect women or treat them well. I'm a genuinely nice guy, but I've picked up on this very fact that women have no souls and I've upped my game 10-fold the last 2 or 3 years as a result of it. It's a pathetic commentary on American/Western women.

The real gems are the percentage of women who buck this trend. If you find a woman who is more interested in a man's character than she's interested in playing games then you may have found wife material. Eventually looks fade and flirting loses its flavor--once that happens, all that's left is character, and as it is said, beauty is skin deep but ugly is clear to the bone.

True that, but not when you are 20

Do what you want not what you can!

2/20/12

Real Social Dynamics Julien -- How To Act Through Your Own Intentions And Still "Get The Girl"
http://youtu.be/6T9MeHV3dzY

WTF? WTF AGAIN?

Power and Money do not change men; they only unmask them

2/20/12

Now WSO will be flooded with losers posting links to "How to have threesomes with supermodels if you are poor and ugly" websites.

If I was a moderator, I'd close down all these "I can't get laid"/"I banged 1,000,000 chicks" threads.

2/20/12

I recommend that surgery where that can turn your vagina into a penis...it may not make you grow a pair of balls, but you can at least look in the mirror and say "i'm a man"

I eat success for breakfast...with skim milk

In reply to TonyPerkis
2/20/12
TonyPerkis:

I recommend that surgery where that can turn your vagina into a penis...it may not make you grow a pair of balls, but you can at least look in the mirror and say "i'm a man"

Zing. Pretty entertaining thread so far. I am just going ot sit back and enjoy.

Man made money, money never made the man

2/21/12

After reading this thread, I can't NOT post. I cringed so many times reading the posts...I really hope most of you were joking with your "advice"... I can't believe I'm actually giving out relationship advice on this forum, but this problem is simple. (I'm assuming you want to date her & have a relationship. If all you want is to have sex with her, I don't really know how to help you with that. So, you can skip everything I said below :/)

As a girl, I don't care if you have slutty girls hanging around you as arm candy or whatever you guys refer to. It may be a guy thing to say "Hey, check out how many girls I can date/bang. You know you want me now. ;D" It doesn't work that way with girls. If you did to that to me, I would think you're a man whore & wouldn't want a relationship with you. Women are usually very perceptive & know when they are with a cute/hot/sexy guy. If you're really that good of a catch, we women pick up on it and we can usually tell when other women are checking you out. So, don't try to be with other girls to rub it in her face to say you can get some. It usually doesn't end up working out as you want it.

Someone mentioned this before...Do work out. Do whatever you need to do to be your best self. Don't bother her with your problems unless she's willing to listen to you. You want to appear as if you're a catch. You're good looking. You got a good job with a decent salary. (Hopefully, she's not a gold digger & you should know whether she is or not by now) Be a happy person & be exciting by trying out new things & etc. Just be a gentleman...sometimes. Each women has a different type, and you've known her for 3 years so you should know what she likes & dislikes.

You already have most of the relationship down cause I think everyone wants a friend and a lover in their partner. You're already her friend. If she already talks about other guys with you, then you may be more in the friend zone...but it can be managed. Before you tell you like her, take her out to the movies or something casual. See if there's any chemistry or spark between you two. Be a bit more flirty. I don't know how good teasing would work. Guys tease me all the time & I don't think anything of it other than them being my friends. Of course, my girlfriends have mentioned that it's a 3rd-grade thing to do when a guy likes someone, but still, I don't think anything of it. But if you are teasing her, make it more flirty than casual teasing. Casually put your arm around her shoulder & see how she reacts if you don't do that already. If she's stiff & uncomfortable, back off. Try it again after some time, and if you get the same reaction, she probably doesn't like your touch.

I don't know how "friendly" you both are so I suggested having your arm around her shoulders. If you both are pretty touchy with each other, you can skip this step. If you're not, get her used to you touching her. (In appropriate areas! Haha) Have your arm around her waist or on the small of her back or her upper arms & then her hand or give her your arm for her to hold. Compliment her on how she looks or how good her hair smells. If you're at the movies, have your arm around her chair or lean in & talk near her ear. It's actually a turn on since ears are pretty sensitive. If she's tired, casually cup the back of her neck & massage that area. The neck is also pretty sensitive...Don't do this all in one date of course, and make sure you're realize how she's reacting to your touch. If she's ok with it, continue. If she's uncomfortable, back off - you probably aren't her type. Take her out to dancing to a club or to actual dancing places like tango or wherever. Obviously, parts of your body will be brushing against each other & you both will be in each other's personal space...you'll know if you have chemistry & if the moment comes up, kiss her. If there is no chemistry or spark after all that, um...I can't really imagine you both having a good sex life so maybe it's best if you both just end up as friends. Sex is important to both women and men. After all, who doesn't love a great orgasm? :D

Everything I mentioned above probably sounds stupid, but you mentioned she has friended so many guys. I don't know how friendly she is, but I don't let my friends touch me in those ways or let him in my personal space unless I was interested in him or attracted to him. She may be interested in you & attracted to you and maybe, she prefers the guys to make a move first. Maybe, that's why she has all those guy friends cause she's hoping one of you will make your move. I could be completely wrong. There are girls who prefer having guy friends instead of a boyfriend or a relationship. Make sure she doesn't have a boyfriend or interested in another guy casually before you proceed.

If you do see there is chemistry between you two & she's okay with you being "touchy", tell her you like her & want to date her. You have a reason to think that there's a chance she would like you so take a chance. She may say yes - if so, then congrats! If she says no, try to see how she says no. If she says it as if she would never be caught dead dating you, I'm sorry - she obviously isn't interested. (This can be avoided if you picked up on how she reacts to you being touchy) If she says it as if she's unsure, tell her to take some time to think about it & keep doing what you were doing & keep pursuing her. If she responds back to you or gets more distant, you have your answer either way. Sometimes, her being distant isn't all that bad either - it may mean she wants time to think about it without your influence. Don't they say distance makes the heart grow fonder or something? Maybe some time away from you will make her see what a great guy you are & she'll come around. If she does become distant, don't wait for her. Try to move on. If things don't work out & you want to be her friend still, then mention it & see if things can go back to normal.

Sorry for this long post. I hope I helped somewhat. If you want to talk about it still, PM me as well.

2/21/12

Dear god, I wrote an essay haha Sorry about that...btw, aren't there many chick flicks on this topic too? Like Hitch maybe? Maybe you can check out click flicks to see how people escaped the friend zone or to see what girls want. After all the movie industry must be doing something right if it keeps the girls interested even with their corny dialogue...

In reply to Chocobo
2/21/12
Izuno:

Dear god, I wrote an essay haha Sorry about that...btw, aren't there many chick flicks on this topic too? Like Hitch maybe? Maybe you can check out click flicks to see how people escaped the friend zone or to see what girls want. After all the movie industry must be doing something right if it keeps the girls interested even with their corny dialogue...

This follow-up post makes you sound like you have no fucking clue what you're talking about. Fyi.

In reply to swagon
2/21/12
swagon:
Izuno:

Dear god, I wrote an essay haha Sorry about that...btw, aren't there many chick flicks on this topic too? Like Hitch maybe? Maybe you can check out click flicks to see how people escaped the friend zone or to see what girls want. After all the movie industry must be doing something right if it keeps the girls interested even with their corny dialogue...

This follow-up post makes you sound like you have no fucking clue what you're talking about. Fyi.

Haha - I don't watch too many chick flicks. Most of them are meh. It's just lame drama & most of them are predictable so I don't watch them. Actually, now I'm trying to think a good chick flick that's actually good to watch for this situation...I can't think of any. The girl/guy does everything wrong to get the guy/girl and somehow, things just magically work out?

So, I guess you shouldn't check out click flicks - bad recommendation! Sorry haha

In reply to Chocobo
2/21/12
Izuno:

After reading this thread, I can't NOT post. I cringed so many times reading the posts...I really hope most of you were joking with your "advice"... I can't believe I'm actually giving out relationship advice on this forum, but this problem is simple. (I'm assuming you want to date her & have a relationship. If all you want is to have sex with her, I don't really know how to help you with that. So, you can skip everything I said below :/)

As a girl, I don't care if you have slutty girls hanging around you as arm candy or whatever you guys refer to. It may be a guy thing to say "Hey, check out how many girls I can date/bang. You know you want me now. ;D" It doesn't work that way with girls. If you did to that to me, I would think you're a man whore & wouldn't want a relationship with you. Women are usually very perceptive & know when they are with a cute/hot/sexy guy. If you're really that good of a catch, we women pick up on it and we can usually tell when other women are checking you out. So, don't try to be with other girls to rub it in her face to say you can get some. It usually doesn't end up working out as you want it.

Someone mentioned this before...Do work out. Do whatever you need to do to be your best self. Don't bother her with your problems unless she's willing to listen to you. You want to appear as if you're a catch. You're good looking. You got a good job with a decent salary. (Hopefully, she's not a gold digger & you should know whether she is or not by now) Be a happy person & be exciting by trying out new things & etc. Just be a gentleman...sometimes. Each women has a different type, and you've known her for 3 years so you should know what she likes & dislikes.

You already have most of the relationship down cause I think everyone wants a friend and a lover in their partner. You're already her friend. If she already talks about other guys with you, then you may be more in the friend zone...but it can be managed. Before you tell you like her, take her out to the movies or something casual. See if there's any chemistry or spark between you two. Be a bit more flirty. I don't know how good teasing would work. Guys tease me all the time & I don't think anything of it other than them being my friends. Of course, my girlfriends have mentioned that it's a 3rd-grade thing to do when a guy likes someone, but still, I don't think anything of it. But if you are teasing her, make it more flirty than casual teasing. Casually put your arm around her shoulder & see how she reacts if you don't do that already. If she's stiff & uncomfortable, back off. Try it again after some time, and if you get the same reaction, she probably doesn't like your touch.

I don't know how "friendly" you both are so I suggested having your arm around her shoulders. If you both are pretty touchy with each other, you can skip this step. If you're not, get her used to you touching her. (In appropriate areas! Haha) Have your arm around her waist or on the small of her back or her upper arms & then her hand or give her your arm for her to hold. Compliment her on how she looks or how good her hair smells. If you're at the movies, have your arm around her chair or lean in & talk near her ear. It's actually a turn on since ears are pretty sensitive. If she's tired, casually cup the back of her neck & massage that area. The neck is also pretty sensitive...Don't do this all in one date of course, and make sure you're realize how she's reacting to your touch. If she's ok with it, continue. If she's uncomfortable, back off - you probably aren't her type. Take her out to dancing to a club or to actual dancing places like tango or wherever. Obviously, parts of your body will be brushing against each other & you both will be in each other's personal space...you'll know if you have chemistry & if the moment comes up, kiss her. If there is no chemistry or spark after all that, um...I can't really imagine you both having a good sex life so maybe it's best if you both just end up as friends. Sex is important to both women and men. After all, who doesn't love a great orgasm? :D

Everything I mentioned above probably sounds stupid, but you mentioned she has friended so many guys. I don't know how friendly she is, but I don't let my friends touch me in those ways or let him in my personal space unless I was interested in him or attracted to him. She may be interested in you & attracted to you and maybe, she prefers the guys to make a move first. Maybe, that's why she has all those guy friends cause she's hoping one of you will make your move. I could be completely wrong. There are girls who prefer having guy friends instead of a boyfriend or a relationship. Make sure she doesn't have a boyfriend or interested in another guy casually before you proceed.

If you do see there is chemistry between you two & she's okay with you being "touchy", tell her you like her & want to date her. You have a reason to think that there's a chance she would like you so take a chance. She may say yes - if so, then congrats! If she says no, try to see how she says no. If she says it as if she would never be caught dead dating you, I'm sorry - she obviously isn't interested. (This can be avoided if you picked up on how she reacts to you being touchy) If she says it as if she's unsure, tell her to take some time to think about it & keep doing what you were doing & keep pursuing her. If she responds back to you or gets more distant, you have your answer either way. Sometimes, her being distant isn't all that bad either - it may mean she wants time to think about it without your influence. Don't they say distance makes the heart grow fonder or something? Maybe some time away from you will make her see what a great guy you are & she'll come around. If she does become distant, don't wait for her. Try to move on. If things don't work out & you want to be her friend still, then mention it & see if things can go back to normal.

Sorry for this long post. I hope I helped somewhat. If you want to talk about it still, PM me as well.

I'm sorry, but this doesn't mean a whole lot to the OP, one because it's in direct contrast with the way 95+% of women act, and two, because as you've previously said you've only been with like 2 guys, and thus you aren't exactly the target demographic here. It has been proven through countless guys who have experimented with all manner of theories in social dynamics in the dating world that what women think they want, and how they act/what they actually want are two very different things. The reason you don't want to uphold the statistically proven (that women want a guy who is getting with other girls besides her) is because you don't want to appear as shallow or that you were wrong for somehow not appropriately valuing that guy's worth and therefore you will have lost out to other girls. It's absurd that you think you wouldn't care if you were in that scenario because you absolutely would. What women think and how they act are two very different things. Your ridiculous assertion that him becoming more attractive to, and hanging out with other women (note that he doesn't advertise that he is sleeping with them he can just let her infer what she will on her own) would not work is like a guy saying that he doesn't care that a girl won't hook up with him and "just wants to be friends." He absolutely cares, just like you do. You can say that you don't, but no one is buying what you're selling. The only way for the OP to have a shot of winning this girl back is to not give a flying fuck whether he does or not. If you show her that being in your life is a privilege, that your time and being with you is a privilege, and that other girls are currently waiting on the short list. Amazing things happen when you shift the value paradigm in a relationship. Once you divorce yourself from the outcome things change very quickly. Girls wonder why they date assholes? Well this is why, it's because they know that the guy who pines over them is there to fill any void not covered by their prospective sexual partners. Girls have guys that fill different roles for them... sometimes it's all one guy, but not always (i.e. the guy that buys you dinner, takes you out on dates, listens to your problems, does not necessarily have to be the guy you're having sex with). The sooner that people realize that trazer here is speaking the truth, the better.

OP do as trazer says. Izuno, though well-intentioned is giving biased advice based on the female perspective, which is flawed from the start because they are not going to tell you honestly what they want, because that's simply too incriminating (if they do know) and inaccurate (in the case that they do not know). Trust me that this girl is definitely going to notice if you stop picking up the phone when she calls, stop responding to texts, stop attending parties where she will be present except when in the presence of at least one lady who is romantically interested in you. She is going to start questioning "Where's Matty? How come he doesn't want to listen to me ramble about my problems or talk about how great a movie The Notebook was." When she starts to realize that other girls are seeing you as "not the friend, but the guy the date/bang" then she will start to see you that way too.

That's fact.

In reply to swagon
2/21/12
swagon:
Izuno:

Dear god, I wrote an essay haha Sorry about that...btw, aren't there many chick flicks on this topic too? Like Hitch maybe? Maybe you can check out click flicks to see how people escaped the friend zone or to see what girls want. After all the movie industry must be doing something right if it keeps the girls interested even with their corny dialogue...

This follow-up post makes you sound like you have no fucking clue what you're talking about. Fyi.

I didn't even read past the first few sentences she wrote the first time because I already had realized her advice was wholly flawed... upon rereading, I realized that it was all around poor advice. I get that she is simply saying how she would like to be approached, but none of this will work at this point given their history. It will just freak her out, seem out of left field, and will end in awkwardness at best, and irreparable damage at worst.

You need to create distance from the friendship while simultaneously acknowledging that the friendship as it currently stands will no longer be available. By surrounding yourself with a variety of new females (be they sexual partners, friends, friends with benefits, etc) you will simply trigger her competitive instinct as trazer accurately said. It doesn't need to be slutty, smart, sophisticated, whatever... it just needs to be girls who aren't horribly unattractive. Variety, and frequency will be key here. Make sure she knows you know your own value, and that she doesn't get to have you pining over her any more. If she wants you, this will force her to act or risk losing you.

This is the only real advice of merit because it accomplishes 3 goals. 1) It definitely gets you out of the friend zone because you simply aren't going to be upholding your current role in the friendship. 2) It gets you in front of new women, and you get a little bit of action / attention that you clearly aren't getting here. Maybe you even end up liking one of your new interests and a relationship develops, but at least you have options. 3) Finally, you get an answer and you get closure. At a certain point later, after she realizes what she's lost, she might come to you and try to initiate something, or she gives you some subtle clues and you act. Either way there's none of this "oh well if I don't ask her out I can't get rejected, and at least I get to be her friend crap." That's not what you want, so don't play it that way.

2/21/12

As the official ambassador to non targets I here by move to rename this thread the great wall of text and attempt to sell to china to replace there crumbling great wall

In reply to blastoise
2/21/12
blastoise:

As the official ambassador to non targets I here by move to rename this thread the great wall of text and attempt to sell to china to replace there crumbling great wall

Read it, you might learn something

2/21/12

I guess it depends on what type of girl she is.

Suppose I had a friend like OP & I noticed he became distant, yes, it would upset me. I wouldn't want to lose his friendship, and if I saw him with other girls & secretly had feelings for him, I would be hurt. I would wonder why he couldn't show interest in me. I would think that I probably wasn't his type & try to move on. I wouldn't fight for him. I mean, we would have apparently known each other for 3 years, and he never made a move so obviously, he wasn't interested.

Actually, I've had similar situations many times in my life. We were friends, we were flirty with each other, had great conversation & etc, but he never made a move. Our friends were convinced we were even dating, but we weren't. 4 years later, he says he did like me & still does, but I had moved on.

My girlfriends have dated more than me - they appreciate their friends & the time they get from their guy friends. My girlfriends and I rarely talked about our feelings to our guy friends. We just talked to each other for comfort & non-emotional stuff with our guy friends unless he had asked for it. I don't think they're trying to fill in a void, but you can never be too sure cause there's always somethings you don't say to others.

You are right that people don't always say what they want. My friends have admitted I am one of the rare ones who does say what I mean. I'm not the type to beat around the bush, but I have noticed my friends have a harder time admitting things. It's almost as if they're afraid to confront their feelings.

Since you're saying I don't know much about women even though I am one, I guess I wish I can be in your shoes for one day to see what type of women you see. I'm assuming you're older than me & probably more experienced in dating. My girlfriends tell me about their relationships all the time so I guess I live vicariously through them? haha

And with my guy friends, I don't use them to talk about my problems. If anything, I'm there to listen to them..and cook for them cause they miss having a home-cooked meal. I guess it just depends on what type of girl she is. I'm not the type to pursue men. If she is, then your method will work. If she's not, then it won't.

--

I just talked to a couple random girls in my building about this & asked them - one of them was actually stuck in the friend zone as well, but she said she couldn't bring herself to mention anything to the guy. They both agreed that if they saw the guy friend with another girl, they wouldn't make a move. Like me, they would think he wasn't interested in her. If the whole point of him being around other girls is to make her see him as boyfriend material, yes, that would work, but if the point is to get her to pursue him, it might not work. And after 3 years, if she didn't make a move, I highly doubt she's gonna pursue. The random girls I talked to agreed that they would however want to test the waters & would rather have him be more touchy and etc to show he's interested. I don't know - I always thought girls like the romance part...at least all the girls I've talked to in my entire life (except for a few who wanted only sex cause they didn't trust men to let him get close to her so that she can avoid getting hurt)

Now, I'm really curious about the dating life from the guy's point of view. How many bitchy women have you met? Or nice women who are smart, funny, sweet & loyal...I wonder what your experiences were. Tempted to start a new thread..

I didn't meant to insult anyone in my post. I just wanted to share my opinion from what I've heard women say. I'd like to think I know my women and how they think after being around them for close to 22 years of my life. I may not have experience in dating since I've only had one boyfriend, but I do listen to women talk about their relationship/men troubles.

Either way, the main point is that the OP has to do something to make her realize he's interested in her.

2/21/12

tl;dr posts + no experience dating = y u post so much

2/21/12

This isn't about dating. This is about getting a girl interested or to see he's interested. :)

And plus, even though I haven't dated, doesn't mean guys haven't asked me out. I haven't dated because of family issues. We do arranged marriages & if I'm willing to risk upsetting my parents to have a love marriage, it better be for the right guy. Obviously, I thought I had found one guy, but he was Jewish & after 3 years, his family's disapproval convinced him to break up with me after he proposed.

So, I don't date casually cause I don't think guys would like to deal with all the complications, and instead, I listen to my friends talk about their experiences with dating. :) I still love happy couples & their love stories so I end up cooking (I love to cook/bake! haha) for my friends & they open up (especially, my guy friends haha). Even though I haven't dated, I like to observe how men and women react to certain situations & I help my friends consider something they might not have when they're so frustrated with their problems. I try to talk to different types of people so that I can see what their experiences are. I just love hearing about relationship/men stuff I suppose haha. It's really not that hard to find girls talking about guys when you're shopping at Victoria Secret or getting ice cream. To me, it's better than watching chick flicks & the other person is glad they can open up to someone without getting judged. My friends say I'm definitely a nurturing type, and it's easier for people to open up to me because of it. Who knows...not like I try to be nurturing.. And after many years of listening to women talk about guy problems, I'm just sharing what I had heard.

In reply to Chocobo
2/21/12
Izuno:

This isn't about dating. This is about getting a girl interested or to see he's interested. :)

And plus, even though I haven't dated, doesn't mean guys haven't asked me out. I haven't dated because of family issues. We do arranged marriages & if I'm willing to risk upsetting my parents to have a love marriage, it better be for the right guy. Obviously, I thought I had found one guy, but he was Jewish & after 3 years, his family's disapproval convinced him to break up with me after he proposed.

So, I don't date casually cause I don't think guys would like to deal with all the complications, and instead, I listen to my friends talk about their experiences with dating. :) I still love happy couples & their love stories so I end up cooking (I love to cook/bake! haha) for my friends & they open up (especially, my guy friends haha). Even though I haven't dated, I like to observe how men and women react to certain situations & I help my friends consider something they might not have when they're so frustrated with their problems. I try to talk to different types of people so that I can see what their experiences are. I just love hearing about relationship/men stuff I suppose haha. It's really not that hard to find girls talking about guys when you're shopping at Victoria Secret or getting ice cream. To me, it's better than watching chick flicks & the other person is glad they can open up to someone without getting judged. My friends say I'm definitely a nurturing type, and it's easier for people to open up to me because of it. Who knows...not like I try to be nurturing.. And after many years of listening to women talk about guy problems, I'm just sharing what I had heard.

thanks babe :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

In reply to Chocobo
2/21/12
Izuno:

This isn't about dating. This is about getting a girl interested or to see he's interested. :)

And plus, even though I haven't dated, doesn't mean guys haven't asked me out. I haven't dated because of family issues. We do arranged marriages & if I'm willing to risk upsetting my parents to have a love marriage, it better be for the right guy. Obviously, I thought I had found one guy, but he was Jewish & after 3 years, his family's disapproval convinced him to break up with me after he proposed.

So, I don't date casually cause I don't think guys would like to deal with all the complications, and instead, I listen to my friends talk about their experiences with dating. :) I still love happy couples & their love stories so I end up cooking (I love to cook/bake! haha) for my friends & they open up (especially, my guy friends haha). Even though I haven't dated, I like to observe how men and women react to certain situations & I help my friends consider something they might not have when they're so frustrated with their problems. I try to talk to different types of people so that I can see what their experiences are. I just love hearing about relationship/men stuff I suppose haha. It's really not that hard to find girls talking about guys when you're shopping at Victoria Secret or getting ice cream. To me, it's better than watching chick flicks & the other person is glad they can open up to someone without getting judged. My friends say I'm definitely a nurturing type, and it's easier for people to open up to me because of it. Who knows...not like I try to be nurturing.. And after many years of listening to women talk about guy problems, I'm just sharing what I had heard.

Dear, how can you give so much advice when you have so little experience in the subject. Your advice is a bit idealistic and sounds like it came out of a novel. Also, you are obviously not American and women are not universal and although basic principles of attraction apply to all they must be customized for various cultures. Most of the advice here was geared towards American and Americanized women.

I have experience with Eastern European women and although such things as mysteriousness, confidence, independence, good looks will attract all women, women in this part of the world have a different mentality and value some things more than others.

Some of the things you've said are ok but extremely romanticized, but in the situation where the OP is a friend and needs to find attraction...your approach is surely fail.

Do what you want not what you can!

2/21/12

WTF is this crap?

OP, this is not about personality. If you are friends, she is OK with you as a person. The love of your life simply thinks you are ugly (but would not tell you in the face in order not to hurt your feelings). No amount of personal development advice from a bunch of random 20-year-old kids hanging on a finance forum is going to help you.

Go cry into the pillow and get over it.

2/21/12

If we're going to look to fiction for an answer, I would recommend some Hemingway. "The Short Happy Life of Francis Macomber" seems appropriate. Its only a few pages long. Trust me, if you don't get the courage you need to pursue what you want from this story that I don't know what it would take...

Don't wait until it is too late to be a man, find the courage to face your fears and get what you want out of life

I can't think of an appropriate film though...

In reply to bossman
2/21/12
bossman:

Dear, how can you give so much advice when you have so little experience in the subject. Your advice is a bit idealistic and sounds like it came out of a novel. Also, you are obviously not American and women are not universal and although basic principles of attraction apply to all they must be customized for various cultures. Most of the advice here was geared towards American and Americanized women.

I have experience with Eastern European women and although such things as mysteriousness, confidence, independence, good looks will attract all women, women in this part of the world have a different mentality and value some things more than others.

Some of the things you've said are ok but extremely romanticized, but in the situation where the OP is a friend and needs to find attraction...your approach is surely fail.

I do live in this part of world? (I'm guessing you're referring to US?)How is it romanticized? I'm not telling you about my experience. Any girl, no matter what race, if she doesn't like your touch, she will move away. But my approach has worked as well. Many of my friends were friends with their boyfriends before they started dating.

The main point I'm saying even if he's with other girls in front of her, he needs to show interest in her first. She's not gonna make the first move. Three years is a long time...even 1.5 years is a long time. If she didn't do it yet, she probably won't till he makes the move first. If the OP is afraid of rejection, he should test the water pretending to be casual to see how she reacts. If he starts coming onto her physically, in her mind, it'd be out of nowhere & that might freak her out. I don't know what kind of a girl she is or how close they both are. But seeing him with another girl won't bring out attraction - I think it'd just make her realize that he's just not into her. :/ She probably realizes he's cute or whatever already. He needs to express interest in her first.

Please tell me your dating experience. I would like to know what makes you think I don't know women. What mentality do you think women have? What are there things you think they value here? I came to the US when I was very young & I grew up with the American mentality so I don't know other culture's mentality much. I'm so tempted to start a thread on what kind of women the guys here have dated. Some of you are jaded, others are just into getting laid & having that models & bottles lifestyle, others are divorced & got fucked by bitchy gold diggers...it's pretty depressing. I met so many wonderful women so are trying to find a decent guy that isn't a douche. And I'm guessing it's the same thing for the guys here cause I'd like to think most of you want a happy married life with a woman who is funny, smart, sexy & etc.

If I'm so idealized, then what's the reality? If you think I live in a bubble, burst it. I would like to learn from you. Maybe then I'll be able to give better advice.

2/21/12

I guess it depends on what type of girl she is. You can't really generalize on how every girl would react to this scenario. If the OP did my approach, there is a chance she might just think he's being overly friendly or she might be wondering "why you're invading my personal space?" Of if you did become distant and be around other girls, there's a chance she can either feel like she's not your type & move on or she'd become jealous and pursue you. But since we don't really know her personality much, we can't really say how she'll react. It just depends on what type of girl she is.

In reply to Chocobo
2/21/12

Izuno:
I guess it depends on what type of girl she is.

Suppose I had a friend like OP & I noticed he became distant, yes, it would upset me. I wouldn't want to lose his friendship, and if I saw him with other girls & secretly had feelings for him, I would be hurt. I would wonder why he couldn't show interest in me. I would think that I probably wasn't his type & try to move on. I wouldn't fight for him. I mean, we would have apparently known each other for 3 years, and he never made a move so obviously, he wasn't interested.

Actually, I've had similar situations many times in my life. We were friends, we were flirty with each other, had great conversation & etc, but he never made a move. Our friends were convinced we were even dating, but we weren't. 4 years later, he says he did like me & still does, but I had moved on.

My girlfriends have dated more than me - they appreciate their friends & the time they get from their guy friends. My girlfriends and I rarely talked about our feelings to our guy friends. We just talked to each other for comfort & non-emotional stuff with our guy friends unless he had asked for it. I don't think they're trying to fill in a void, but you can never be too sure cause there's always somethings you don't say to others.

You are right that people don't always say what they want. My friends have admitted I am one of the rare ones who does say what I mean. I'm not the type to beat around the bush, but I have noticed my friends have a harder time admitting things. , It's almost as if they're afraid to confront their feelings.

Since you're saying I don't know much about women even though I am one, I guess I wish I can be in your shoes for one day to see what type of women you see. I'm assuming you're older than me & probably more experienced in dating. My girlfriends tell me about their relationships all the time so I guess I live vicariously through them? haha

And with my guy friends, I don't use them to talk about my problems. If anything, I'm there to listen to them..and cook for them cause they miss having a home-cooked meal. I guess it just depends on what type of girl she is. I'm not the type to pursue men. If she is, then your method will work. If she's not, then it won't.

--

I just talked to a couple random girls in my building about this & asked them - one of them was actually stuck in the friend zone as well, but she said she couldn't bring herself to mention anything to the guy. They both agreed that if they saw the guy friend with another girl, they wouldn't make a move. Like me, they would think he wasn't interested in her. If the whole point of him being around other girls is to make her see him as boyfriend material, yes, that would work, but if the point is to get her to pursue him, it might not work. And after 3 years, if she didn't make a move, I highly doubt she's gonna pursue. The random girls I talked to agreed that they would however want to test the waters & would rather have him be more touchy and etc to show he's interested. I don't know - I always thought girls like the romance part...at least all the girls I've talked to in my entire life (except for a few who wanted only sex cause they didn't trust men to let him get close to her so that she can avoid getting hurt)

Now, I'm really curious about the dating life from the guy's point of view. How many bitchy women have you met? Or nice women who are smart, funny, sweet & loyal...I wonder what your experiences were. Tempted to start a new thread..

I didn't meant to insult anyone in my post. I just wanted to share my opinion from what I've heard women say. I'd like to think I know my women and how they think after being around them for close to 22 years of my life. I may not have experience in dating since I've only had one boyfriend, but I do listen to women talk about their relationship/men troubles.

Either way, the main point is that the OP has to do something to make her realize he's interested in her.

The text in bold are big red flags. Every woman who has ever said always turned out to be a bitch and generally have not been with many men in terms of relationships (no offense). And after reading further into your post I see that is the case.

Look hun, speaking you mind, being blunt, or just saying the truth is just a way to not say you are a bitch. When in fact the definitions have the same meaning

Also, from what I observed women who are more out going(read talk to eveeeeery one, flirt with eveeeeeery one) are making up for something.

my 2c

2/21/12

As a general piece of advice, if some one says they are blunt, run, run very far.

2/21/12

What's up with these walls of text?

OP, I seriously suggest you get over this girl. Fawning over her and wondering if you can get out of the friendzone is time wasted.

Go hit on other girls and stop thinking about this girl. You're whipped.

In reply to blastoise
2/21/12
blastoise:
Izuno:

I guess it depends on what type of girl she is.

Suppose I had a friend like OP & I noticed he became distant, yes, it would upset me. I wouldn't want to lose his friendship, and if I saw him with other girls & secretly had feelings for him, I would be hurt. I would wonder why he couldn't show interest in me. I would think that I probably wasn't his type & try to move on. I wouldn't fight for him. I mean, we would have apparently known each other for 3 years, and he never made a move so obviously, he wasn't interested.

Actually, I've had similar situations many times in my life. We were friends, we were flirty with each other, had great conversation & etc, but he never made a move. Our friends were convinced we were even dating, but we weren't. 4 years later, he says he did like me & still does, but I had moved on.

My girlfriends have dated more than me - they appreciate their friends & the time they get from their guy friends. My girlfriends and I rarely talked about our feelings to our guy friends. We just talked to each other for comfort & non-emotional stuff with our guy friends unless he had asked for it. I don't think they're trying to fill in a void, but you can never be too sure cause there's always somethings you don't say to others.

You are right that people don't always say what they want. My friends have admitted I am one of the rare ones who does say what I mean. I'm not the type to beat around the bush, but I have noticed my friends have a harder time admitting things. , It's almost as if they're afraid to confront their feelings.

Since you're saying I don't know much about women even though I am one, I guess I wish I can be in your shoes for one day to see what type of women you see. I'm assuming you're older than me & probably more experienced in dating. My girlfriends tell me about their relationships all the time so I guess I live vicariously through them? haha

And with my guy friends, I don't use them to talk about my problems. If anything, I'm there to listen to them..and cook for them cause they miss having a home-cooked meal. I guess it just depends on what type of girl she is. I'm not the type to pursue men. If she is, then your method will work. If she's not, then it won't.

--

I just talked to a couple random girls in my building about this & asked them - one of them was actually stuck in the friend zone as well, but she said she couldn't bring herself to mention anything to the guy. They both agreed that if they saw the guy friend with another girl, they wouldn't make a move. Like me, they would think he wasn't interested in her. If the whole point of him being around other girls is to make her see him as boyfriend material, yes, that would work, but if the point is to get her to pursue him, it might not work. And after 3 years, if she didn't make a move, I highly doubt she's gonna pursue. The random girls I talked to agreed that they would however want to test the waters & would rather have him be more touchy and etc to show he's interested. I don't know - I always thought girls like the romance part...at least all the girls I've talked to in my entire life (except for a few who wanted only sex cause they didn't trust men to let him get close to her so that she can avoid getting hurt)

Now, I'm really curious about the dating life from the guy's point of view. How many bitchy women have you met? Or nice women who are smart, funny, sweet & loyal...I wonder what your experiences were. Tempted to start a new thread..

I didn't meant to insult anyone in my post. I just wanted to share my opinion from what I've heard women say. I'd like to think I know my women and how they think after being around them for close to 22 years of my life. I may not have experience in dating since I've only had one boyfriend, but I do listen to women talk about their relationship/men troubles.

Either way, the main point is that the OP has to do something to make her realize he's interested in her.

The text in bold are big red flags. Every woman who has ever said always turned out to be a bitch and generally have not been with many men in terms of relationships (no offense). And after reading further into your post I see that is the case.

Look hun, speaking you mind, being blunt, or just saying the truth is just a way to not say you are a bitch. When in fact the definitions have the same meaning

Also, from what I observed women who are more out going(read talk to eveeeeery one, flirt with eveeeeeery one) are making up for something.

my 2c

Boom

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays

Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne

2/21/12

Dating other girls isn't to make her jealous.. rather for him to get back in touch with relating to women in a non-platonic manner... Builds his confidence, might meet someone he likes, and he gets perspective on what he wants.

He should definitely make a move (but not in a romantic comedy, virgin putting his arm around her shoulder, or asking her out in a "would you consider, maybe, if we kinda, sorta, went out on a date, you know... like together" manner)... he needs time away from her to find himself first and break away from relating to her in an asexual manner.

In reply to Chocobo
2/22/12
Izuno:
bossman:

Dear, how can you give so much advice when you have so little experience in the subject. Your advice is a bit idealistic and sounds like it came out of a novel. Also, you are obviously not American and women are not universal and although basic principles of attraction apply to all they must be customized for various cultures. Most of the advice here was geared towards American and Americanized women.

I have experience with Eastern European women and although such things as mysteriousness, confidence, independence, good looks will attract all women, women in this part of the world have a different mentality and value some things more than others.

Some of the things you've said are ok but extremely romanticized, but in the situation where the OP is a friend and needs to find attraction...your approach is surely fail.

I do live in this part of world? (I'm guessing you're referring to US?)How is it romanticized? I'm not telling you about my experience. Any girl, no matter what race, if she doesn't like your touch, she will move away. But my approach has worked as well. Many of my friends were friends with their boyfriends before they started dating.

The main point I'm saying even if he's with other girls in front of her, he needs to show interest in her first. She's not gonna make the first move. Three years is a long time...even 1.5 years is a long time. If she didn't do it yet, she probably won't till he makes the move first. If the OP is afraid of rejection, he should test the water pretending to be casual to see how she reacts. If he starts coming onto her physically, in her mind, it'd be out of nowhere & that might freak her out. I don't know what kind of a girl she is or how close they both are. But seeing him with another girl won't bring out attraction - I think it'd just make her realize that he's just not into her. :/ She probably realizes he's cute or whatever already. He needs to express interest in her first.

Please tell me your dating experience. I would like to know what makes you think I don't know women. What mentality do you think women have? What are there things you think they value here? I came to the US when I was very young & I grew up with the American mentality so I don't know other culture's mentality much. I'm so tempted to start a thread on what kind of women the guys here have dated. Some of you are jaded, others are just into getting laid & having that models & bottles lifestyle, others are divorced & got fucked by bitchy gold diggers...it's pretty depressing. I met so many wonderful women so are trying to find a decent guy that isn't a douche. And I'm guessing it's the same thing for the guys here cause I'd like to think most of you want a happy married life with a woman who is funny, smart, sexy & etc.

If I'm so idealized, then what's the reality? If you think I live in a bubble, burst it. I would like to learn from you. Maybe then I'll be able to give better advice.

Haha, listen, I'm a guy and you are a girl and I'm not going to argue with you about what is right and wrong in these situation. I do think OP should take advice from guys who've been there and done that. I don't think a woman as knowledgeable as you may be should give a advice to a man as you are never in our situation and what you imagine we should do/be ( prince on white horse, super nice, super gentleman and all that good stuff) doesn't always translate into what women really want (as proven by countless nice guys who can't get laid in their life). Don't get me wrong i'm not talking about just getting laid, but if a guy can make a girl attracted to him sexually to the point she'll do it on their first date, she will be happy with him long term too (a bit of an extreme scenario).

Do what you want not what you can!

In reply to blastoise
2/22/12
blastoise:
Izuno:

I guess it depends on what type of girl she is.

Suppose I had a friend like OP & I noticed he became distant, yes, it would upset me. I wouldn't want to lose his friendship, and if I saw him with other girls & secretly had feelings for him, I would be hurt. I would wonder why he couldn't show interest in me. I would think that I probably wasn't his type & try to move on. I wouldn't fight for him. I mean, we would have apparently known each other for 3 years, and he never made a move so obviously, he wasn't interested.

Actually, I've had similar situations many times in my life. We were friends, we were flirty with each other, had great conversation & etc, but he never made a move. Our friends were convinced we were even dating, but we weren't. 4 years later, he says he did like me & still does, but I had moved on.

My girlfriends have dated more than me - they appreciate their friends & the time they get from their guy friends. My girlfriends and I rarely talked about our feelings to our guy friends. We just talked to each other for comfort & non-emotional stuff with our guy friends unless he had asked for it. I don't think they're trying to fill in a void, but you can never be too sure cause there's always somethings you don't say to others.

You are right that people don't always say what they want. My friends have admitted I am one of the rare ones who does say what I mean. I'm not the type to beat around the bush, but I have noticed my friends have a harder time admitting things. , It's almost as if they're afraid to confront their feelings.

Since you're saying I don't know much about women even though I am one, I guess I wish I can be in your shoes for one day to see what type of women you see. I'm assuming you're older than me & probably more experienced in dating. My girlfriends tell me about their relationships all the time so I guess I live vicariously through them? haha

And with my guy friends, I don't use them to talk about my problems. If anything, I'm there to listen to them..and cook for them cause they miss having a home-cooked meal. I guess it just depends on what type of girl she is. I'm not the type to pursue men. If she is, then your method will work. If she's not, then it won't.

--

I just talked to a couple random girls in my building about this & asked them - one of them was actually stuck in the friend zone as well, but she said she couldn't bring herself to mention anything to the guy. They both agreed that if they saw the guy friend with another girl, they wouldn't make a move. Like me, they would think he wasn't interested in her. If the whole point of him being around other girls is to make her see him as boyfriend material, yes, that would work, but if the point is to get her to pursue him, it might not work. And after 3 years, if she didn't make a move, I highly doubt she's gonna pursue. The random girls I talked to agreed that they would however want to test the waters & would rather have him be more touchy and etc to show he's interested. I don't know - I always thought girls like the romance part...at least all the girls I've talked to in my entire life (except for a few who wanted only sex cause they didn't trust men to let him get close to her so that she can avoid getting hurt)

Now, I'm really curious about the dating life from the guy's point of view. How many bitchy women have you met? Or nice women who are smart, funny, sweet & loyal...I wonder what your experiences were. Tempted to start a new thread..

I didn't meant to insult anyone in my post. I just wanted to share my opinion from what I've heard women say. I'd like to think I know my women and how they think after being around them for close to 22 years of my life. I may not have experience in dating since I've only had one boyfriend, but I do listen to women talk about their relationship/men troubles.

Either way, the main point is that the OP has to do something to make her realize he's interested in her.

The text in bold are big red flags. Every woman who has ever said always turned out to be a bitch and generally have not been with many men in terms of relationships (no offense). And after reading further into your post I see that is the case.

Look hun, speaking you mind, being blunt, or just saying the truth is just a way to not say you are a bitch. When in fact the definitions have the same meaning

Also, from what I observed women who are more out going(read talk to eveeeeery one, flirt with eveeeeeery one) are making up for something.

my 2c

You can't always generalize women or men for that matter. I'm sure there are women out there who are blunt to the point of hurting others, but you can't say every woman has turned out to be a bitch. And me not being with other men has nothing to do with this. I couldn't really date in high school since I was living with my parents. And I met my ex in college & we were together for 3 years. The reason I'm not dating at the moment was because I just want to focus on my career for awhile. We just ended it a couple months ago, and I'm not in the mood to jump into another relationship.

What I meant in the bold text was that I don't have problems confronting most of my feelings. Many people are afraid to admit that they feel a certain way like admitting your fears or admitting you might like someone or admitting you may be a bisexual & etc. This has nothing to do with other people. It's just admitting certain things to yourself - it's scary for most people. For me, I'm scared to admit one thing - other than that, I will confront everything else, which to my friends is rare cause not everyone is willing to do so. I know for many women I had talked to, it's hard for them to admit certain things.

In reply to bossman
2/22/12
bossman:

Haha, listen, I'm a guy and you are a girl and I'm not going to argue with you about what is right and wrong in these situation. I do think OP should take advice from guys who've been there and done that. I don't think a woman as knowledgeable as you may be should give a advice to a man as you are never in our situation and what you imagine we should do/be ( prince on white horse, super nice, super gentleman and all that good stuff) doesn't always translate into what women really want (as proven by countless nice guys who can't get laid in their life). Don't get me wrong i'm not talking about just getting laid, but if a guy can make a girl attracted to him sexually to the point she'll do it on their first date, she will be happy with him long term too (a bit of an extreme scenario).

The main problem is that you're generalizing women. Not everyone responds the same way. And I don't have to imagine situations when I've heard about other women & their situations. It's been three years - she's not gonna make a move. I'm glad we can all agree on that.

She needs to be attracted to him. We don't know what kind of a girl she is. My point is just to test the waters a bit with her. She may respond back or she could get freaked out. If he was with another girl, sure, she may get jealous and pursue him or she can feel as if he never made a move on her & therefore, assume she's not his type & move on. You can't really say which method is right cause we don't know what kind of a girl she is.

Either way, if he doesn't have the balls to show some interest in her, it's not gonna work out.

I do however agree fully with Relinquis. If he's dating other girls for himself, then fine. Just don't expect her to be attracted to him all of a sudden just because he's with other girls. We don't know cause once again, we don't know what kind of a girl she is. She may approach him differently or think she should leave him alone so that he can continue doing his thing.

2/22/12

Izuno, it's always interesting to hear it from a female perspective. You're right; we (guys on WSO) shouldn't generalize women, but from my personal experience (and I'm sure others here will agree with me), female opinions have proven to be considerably unhelpful.

We need to look back at what OP asked: "how to do it with the LEAST damage potential to friendship?"

He already knows he's in the friendzone. One of 2 things can happen: he succeeds on getting her or he fails abysmally and destroys the friendship. The fact that he asks for the "LEAST damage potential" convinces me that it's not going to be successful at all; he's already communicated his attitude to us. The way I see it, he wants it it to magically work out, but if it doesn't, he wants things to return to the friendship. He's beyond committed to this safety net of a friendship: this is where things go wrong. You either try and succeed/fail or you continue being her friend. There is no in-between. I guarantee that if he fails, the friendship will be lost.

Compare this scenario to a first-time swimmer; you either dive straight in the pool or you stand on the ledge. Pick your poison.

In reply to AlsatianCousin
2/22/12
AlsatianCousin:

Izuno, it's always interesting to hear it from a female perspective. You're right; we (guys on WSO) shouldn't generalize women, but from my personal experience (and I'm sure others here will agree with me), female opinions have proven to be considerably unhelpful.

We need to look back at what OP asked: "how to do it with the LEAST damage potential to friendship?"

He already knows he's in the friendzone. One of 2 things can happen: he succeeds on getting her or he fails abysmally and destroys the friendship. The fact that he asks for the "LEAST damage potential" convinces me that it's not going to be successful at all; he's already communicated his attitude to us. The way I see it, he wants it it to magically work out, but if it doesn't, he wants things to return to the friendship. He's beyond committed to this safety net of a friendship: this is where things go wrong. You either try and succeed/fail or you continue being her friend. There is no in-between. I guarantee that if he fails, the friendship will be lost.

Compare this scenario to a first-time swimmer; you either dive straight in the pool or you stand on the ledge. Pick your poison.

You're right. He either takes the risk or he doesn't. I guess that ends this thread haha

In the end, I was just being stubborn, like everyone else, to make a point. After this thread, I really wish I can see the guy's perspective more. It seems like a lot of guys here have been hurt by bitches or gold diggers & now just have a biased view against women. Makes me wonder what kind of horrible experiences you guys went through...

2/22/12

^^^^^THIS

"Sincerity is an overrated virtue" - Milton Friedman

2/22/12

I'm sure the video is highly edited, but it demonstrates a good point. More proof women have no souls--virtually none of those women even considered how their "friend" was feeling until they were forced to think about it.

BTW, I have female friends that I wouldn't touch with a 10-foot pole, so I'm sure it's possible.

2/22/12

Izuno, for the record, based on everything you have written up to this point, I would consider you a great catch. Just like there are non-manipulative alpha-male-craving girls out there somewhere, we "nice" guys do exist. If only more girls shared your line of thinking...

Can I have your number?

"An intellectual is a man who takes more words than necessary to tell more than he knows."
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

Check out my blog!

In reply to DonVon
2/22/12
Vontropnats:

Izuno, for the record, based on everything you have written up to this point, I would consider you a great catch. Just like there are non-manipulative alpha-male-craving girls out there somewhere, we "nice" guys do exist. If only more girls shared your line of thinking...

Can I have your number?

hahaha..do it, you wont

I eat success for breakfast...with skim milk

2/22/12

Wow, that was quite shocking...now, I'm wondering about my guy friends...all those times they were teasing me or trying to get my attention, that couldn't possibly be because they were interested in me. Everyone from my family to girl friends tease me. I didn't think much of it.

But it brings up a good point...I guess there's an attraction on at least one side. But you move on & the girls don't think much of it. It's like a little crush - nothing more. I wouldn't think the guys would be that hurt by it. I know some of my guy friends have best friends who are girls. There may have been attraction in the beginning, but later on, I would think both of them see each other as brothers and sisters. At least, that's how I see my guy friends as.. Are the guys really that hurt by it? Now, I'm thinking of guys asking a girl out & all the girls are saying "let's just be friends", I guess that would hurt when you feel like all the women just want friendship & nothing more. Aww, poor guys...I'm sorry. :(

In reply to DonVon
2/22/12
Vontropnats:

Izuno, for the record, based on everything you have written up to this point, I would consider you a great catch. Just like there are non-manipulative alpha-male-craving girls out there somewhere, we "nice" guys do exist. If only more girls shared your line of thinking...

Can I have your number?

Haha, I can't possibly be the only nice girl you've come across in your life. How is it possible that I know plenty of nice girls out there who aren't gold diggers or bitchy? They're just waiting for some guy who's not a douche to ask them out. Where do you guys go to find girls? It seems like you've only come across the bad ones..

2/22/12

Damn, way to subtly reject me. =(

"An intellectual is a man who takes more words than necessary to tell more than he knows."
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

Check out my blog!

In reply to DonVon
2/22/12
Vontropnats:

Damn, way to subtly reject me. =(

It's not a rejection. How can you reject someone you don't even know? I don't give out my number to online people unless I know them pretty well. Plus, I'm pretty sure you'd have much more fun getting to know someone in person than you would through the net.

In reply to DonVon
2/22/12
Vontropnats:

Damn, way to subtly reject me. =(

You're just not very good looking, bro...

2/22/12

I like how this thread turned into match.com

Calling Ron Paul an isolationist is like calling your neighbor a hermit because he doesn't come over to your property and break your windows.

In reply to Virginia Tech 4ever
2/22/12
Virginia Tech 4ever:
Vontropnats:

Damn, way to subtly reject me. =(

You're just not very good looking, bro...

yea he def looks like poop

I eat success for breakfast...with skim milk

2/22/12

So, run me through a DCF

2/22/12
In reply to neanderthal
2/22/12
neanderthal:

This may not be one of the best advice, but how about just explicitly asking her out on a date? Don't do one of those "Would you like to get coffee with me?" questions because that can seem very vague and she'd probably take it as a friendly gesture, but actually express your emotions straight up with her and asking her on a date. This may depend on the type of person you are though, because I'm more on the straight-forward side of the spectrum when it comes to expressing emotions, so I feel comfortable with this method.

This.

I'm going to try to get this post back on track so:

THIS IS NOT THE TIME FOR THE SOFT SELL. THE PEOPLE SUGGESTING THREE DATES ARE MORONS AND POTENTIALLY GAY

You should NOT do one of the long, drawn-out speeches about how you loved her since the third grade. But you should absolutely be direct with her and make it clear that you're asking her out as a potential relationship, not just friends. You must be bold to break out of the friend zone! I actually did this with a friend of mine not too long ago and it worked great. I would try something along the lines of, "I think you're a fantastic girl and have a lot of qualities that I enjoy. I think we'd be good for each other and I'm inviting you to dinner on Friday, as a date, to see if we can start to build a relationship between each other. Would you like to join me?".

In reply to GentlemanJack
2/22/12
GentlemanJack:
neanderthal:

This may not be one of the best advice, but how about just explicitly asking her out on a date? Don't do one of those "Would you like to get coffee with me?" questions because that can seem very vague and she'd probably take it as a friendly gesture, but actually express your emotions straight up with her and asking her on a date. This may depend on the type of person you are though, because I'm more on the straight-forward side of the spectrum when it comes to expressing emotions, so I feel comfortable with this method.

This.

I'm going to try to get this post back on track so:

THIS IS NOT THE TIME FOR THE SOFT SELL. THE PEOPLE SUGGESTING THREE DATES ARE MORONS AND POTENTIALLY GAY

You should NOT do one of the long, drawn-out speeches about how you loved her since the third grade. But you should absolutely be direct with her and make it clear that you're asking her out as a potential relationship, not just friends. You must be bold to break out of the friend zone! I actually did this with a friend of mine not too long ago and it worked great. I would try something along the lines of, "I think you're a fantastic girl and have a lot of qualities that I enjoy. I think we'd be good for each other and I'm inviting you to dinner on Friday, as a date, to see if we can start to build a relationship between each other. Would you like to join me?".

I think we were saying go soft to test the waters and not risk losing the friendship. But anyway..

What you said works. If a guy friend said that to me, I'd say yes. :)

2/22/12

Long-time reader, first-time poster.

The best way to get out of the friend zone is never to get in it in the first place. I say cut your losses and move on. I've been EXACTLY where you are so I know how it is. Live and learn from this experience and don't get friend-zoned in the future if you think you might like the girl in any manner.

The only way is all the way.

Pages

What's Your Opinion? Comment below:

Login or register to get credit (collect bananas).
All anonymous comments are unpublished until reviewed. No links or promotional material will be allowed. Most comments are published within 24 hours.
WallStreet Prep Master Financial Modeling