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Hey guys, been lurking on these boards for a while...can't believe my first post is about relationships, but so it is. All the depressing talk around here about marriage and relationships (and in real life) made me realize that a good thing is REALLY hard to come by.

Basically, known this girl since college. She's the rare perfect relationship material type - cute, smart, cooks, plays sports and good at it too, video games (?!), works in finance, can laugh w me, blah blah blah. Always had a thing for her but lately it's dawned on me that if I don't make a move she might get taken real fast...so, what to do?

Thing I don't get with her is that she's friends with a bunch of guys but she's staying single...and no she's not a slut, we run in the same circles so it's easy to tell. So now I'm like one of the guys she hangs out with as friends...no idea how to break out of this position...and I'm on this site on a Saturday night. Yea..how to do it with the LEAST damage potential to friendship?

Advice? Is it even worth risking? Or just forget about it and move on?

Comments (158)

  • forgetfulmonkey's picture

    She probably has no idea about your feelings so making a big move might be too risky. I think maybe asking her to a movie or lunch, something casual, would be a good idea. Then maybe a week after you could ask her out to dinner which would be more of a date, and that way it'd be obvious without you really having to say it. If she says yes, she probably likes you, and if no, then well at least you got your answer.

  • neanderthal's picture

    This may not be one of the best advice, but how about just explicitly asking her out on a date? Don't do one of those "Would you like to get coffee with me?" questions because that can seem very vague and she'd probably take it as a friendly gesture, but actually express your emotions straight up with her and asking her on a date. This may depend on the type of person you are though, because I'm more on the straight-forward side of the spectrum when it comes to expressing emotions, so I feel comfortable with this method.

  • bossman's picture

    You gotta create attraction...friendship is cool but it doesn't create attraction...How do you do it? You gotta talk to her about interesting things not the common things friends talk about (problems, work). You gotta tease her and make small jokes at her and then flirt and very importantly watch how she responds. You gotta show her that you are a price she would like to have, so you gotta act like you are the price. Hang out with another girl and make sure she knows about it and sees it. Leave her hanging by not telling her the full story about whatever. Don't be needy and beyond all stop being a caring friend. That's unattractive. A combination of these things might spur a spark of attraction in her (assuming you are alright physically) ...Good luck

    Do what you want not what you can!

  • In reply to forgetfulmonkey
    bossman's picture

    forgetfulmonkey wrote:
    She probably has no idea about your feelings so making a big move might be too risky.

    If you are friend now...making a straight forward bold headed move will make it all look awkward and uncomfortable (so i agree with the comment above) ...you have make sure she sends you the right signals...it's a one way street.

    Do what you want not what you can!

  • Tennis Champ's picture

    Be more sexually attractive.

    The fastest way to a woman's heart is through her sister [in your context: other hos]

    Show her you're wanted by others and she'll realize she's sitting on an accessible treasure. When you show her you have options, you'll be all the more desirable. It's exactly like leveraging offers.

  • FlakieBear's picture

    Tell her that your dad is from Canada

    Power and Money do not change men; they only unmask them

  • Hamilton's picture

    Hold on OP. Before I answer your question, let me call tech support to see if they can help fix this pics not loading problem.

    "Have you ever tried to use a chain with 3 weak links? I have, and now I no longer own an arctic wolf."
    -Dwight Schrute

  • swagon's picture

    bro u gotta hop up out da bed, turn yo swag on, take a look in tha mirror say WHAT UP. Get dat money, throw some hunnets in her face and let her know u can ball.

    then she gon know u fo real.

  • ah's picture

    If you've dropped a hint before and she friend zoned you after that, it's probably a hint back from her that she's not interested...

    I don't accept sacrifices and I don't make them. ... If ever the pleasure of one has to be bought by the pain of the other, there better be no trade at all. A trade by which one gains and the other loses is a fraud.

  • whateverittakes's picture

    Ask her out to dinner and a movie, and a few more dinners after that. Escalate the conversation to something beyond the typical friend zone bullshit. Gauge her reactions. If positive, find the opportune time to let her know how you feel. If she says no, be cool with the fact that you at least have clarity. Not knowing where you stand with a lady is stressful. If you cannot be friends after that, it sucks, but so be it. You were not content merely being friends with her, so you went for it. All or nothing. You deal with the blow and move on.

  • cibo's picture

    Date other girls and have her find out. Take her out to drinks. Feel her up and then escalate to kissing, groping and then sex. If she stops you, keep trying until she removes herself from the situation. Saying no but staying there means, keep going.

    If you don't get anything after all that, she may not to talk to you again but who cares since you just dropped someone who you weren't sleeping with anyway.

  • In reply to cibo
    Tennis Champ's picture

    cibo wrote:
    Date other girls and have her find out. Take her out to drinks. Feel her up and then escalate to kissing, groping and then sex. If she stops you, keep trying until she removes herself from the situation. Saying no but staying there means, keep going.

    If you don't get anything after all that, she may not to talk to you again but who cares since you just dropped someone who you weren't sleeping with anyway.

    Yes, I like this. Women actually secretly love domination, and they love saying "no" while getting ravaged.

  • In reply to Tennis Champ
    trazer985's picture

    Tennis Champ wrote:
    cibo wrote:
    Date other girls and have her find out. Take her out to drinks. Feel her up and then escalate to kissing, groping and then sex. If she stops you, keep trying until she removes herself from the situation. Saying no but staying there means, keep going.

    If you don't get anything after all that, she may not to talk to you again but who cares since you just dropped someone who you weren't sleeping with anyway.

    Yes, I like this. Women actually secretly love domination, and they love saying "no" while getting ravaged.

    So do lawyers.

    However OP, from someone who got continuously friendzoned, I can tell you there are some very simple steps to take.

    First of all, defriend yourself. Attraction for women is not the same as attraction for men. Availability and perceived desirability by others, is sadly in the top 5.

    You are now only allowed to initiate conversation with her 30% of the time. (I'm quantifying this so you can keep track of it, measuring gets results).

    You must decline at least 25% of the social invites where she will also be, be polite but evasive in your reasons. Make sure you know where they are going and dont go near there. Being caught at as a liar will do more damage than cutting your cock off. Also dont stay in your room, same reasons. i'm not a natural liar, and couldn't lie to a girls i like that much's face anyway, so the way I did this was to actually create other engagements to go to.

    Hit the fucking gym, or if that isn't an option, find $200 and get yourself some free weights, a floor mat and a workout bench.

    The perception in her mind you are trying to create is to go from: Guaranteed guy around who i like whenever i need him/get on with bullshit yada to:

    Selfimproving guy who's getting what he wants from life and can pick any girl he wants, I want him to pick me.

    It's all mostly an illusion.

    If you cant be bothered to put that effort into yourself to get her, then I dont believe you'll put in the effort to keep her.

    PM me for more info, my longer posts get tl;dr'ed so I kept this relatively short.

    (from someone who went from no girls to never single, unattractive to an 9/10 (according to an underwear model). Personally I can't tell i look any different but I carry myself differently.

  • In reply to trazer985
    Cluelessfromoz's picture

    trazer985 wrote:
    Tennis Champ wrote:
    cibo wrote:
    Date other girls and have her find out. Take her out to drinks. Feel her up and then escalate to kissing, groping and then sex. If she stops you, keep trying until she removes herself from the situation. Saying no but staying there means, keep going.

    If you don't get anything after all that, she may not to talk to you again but who cares since you just dropped someone who you weren't sleeping with anyway.

    Yes, I like this. Women actually secretly love domination, and they love saying "no" while getting ravaged.

    So do lawyers.

    However OP, from someone who got continuously friendzoned, I can tell you there are some very simple steps to take.

    First of all, defriend yourself. Attraction for women is not the same as attraction for men. Availability and perceived desirability by others, is sadly in the top 5.

    You are now only allowed to initiate conversation with her 30% of the time. (I'm quantifying this so you can keep track of it, measuring gets results).

    You must decline at least 25% of the social invites where she will also be, be polite but evasive in your reasons. Make sure you know where they are going and dont go near there. Being caught at as a liar will do more damage than cutting your cock off. Also dont stay in your room, same reasons. i'm not a natural liar, and couldn't lie to a girls i like that much's face anyway, so the way I did this was to actually create other engagements to go to.

    Hit the fucking gym, or if that isn't an option, find $200 and get yourself some free weights, a floor mat and a workout bench.

    The perception in her mind you are trying to create is to go from: Guaranteed guy around who i like whenever i need him/get on with bullshit yada to:

    Selfimproving guy who's getting what he wants from life and can pick any girl he wants, I want him to pick me.

    It's all mostly an illusion.

    If you cant be bothered to put that effort into yourself to get her, then I dont believe you'll put in the effort to keep her.

    PM me for more info, my longer posts get tl;dr'ed so I kept this relatively short.

    (from someone who went from no girls to never single, unattractive to an 9/10 (according to an underwear model). Personally I can't tell i look any different but I carry myself differently.

    From a chick who has ALOT of male friends friendzoned. This guy has probably gotten the closest.
    It's either a game... but there is the time investment factor.

    Or you are up front. DO NOT listen to guys who say invite her to dinner etc without making it clear it's a date. I have seen this happen to many male friends of mine who don't get the hints from the chicks they are chasing that I pick up straight away. I think I may just write a book soon "She's just not that into you"

  • Flake's picture

    Now you just wait until she falls asleep.

    Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.

  • Relinquis's picture

    So cliché... If you're not ready to lose her as a friend, you won't have her as your girl.

    The OP is definitely in love & very emotionally invested in this woman/girl... I've seen this so many times... trazer985 is on the right track... you have to stop treating her as your friend and start thinking of her as a potential girl to date/bang.

    You need to change the way you relate to her.
    Don't give her advice. Don't tell her your problems. Don't do her favours. Don't be her shoulder to cry on. Don't have deep philosophical/intellectual conversations. Instead, tease her a bit, flirt, etc... Tell her what you want instead of asking for her opinion, etc... Make sure you date / bang other women... Don't be too picky about this. Start this afternoon.

    If you're not willing to let go of the friendship before you are with her and treat her as just another girl, you will not be successful in dating her... You need to be able to walk away form her in order to have her...

    FYI, hate to be the one that breaks this to you, but she has certainly banged one or more of the guys in her "circle"... Most likely it is the sleaziest one, or the one you dislike the most... You need to accept this fact as well.

    Nearly every attractive girl I've been with has a single "friend" who is clearly in love with her and at her beck & call... Don't be that guy... He doesn't get any...

  • Hooked on LEAPS's picture

    When it comes to girls you gotta put your balls on the table. But, if your already in the friend zone it's probably too late. I'd say your best bet is not to talk to her for a year or so, and when you do talk to her again make up a very interesting life story about what you've been doing and lie about how successful you are. Also, try to accidentally run into her when your with sleazy looking sluts.

    Competition is a sin.

    -John D. Rockefeller

  • In reply to Relinquis
    WallStreetOasis.com's picture

    Relinquis wrote:
    So cliché... If you're not ready to lose her as a friend, you won't have her as your girl.

    The OP is definitely in love & very emotionally invested in this woman/girl... I've seen this so many times... trazer985 is on the right track... you have to stop treating her as your friend and start thinking of her as a potential girl to date/bang.

    You need to change the way you relate to her.
    Don't give her advice. Don't tell her your problems. Don't do her favours. Don't be her shoulder to cry on. Don't have deep philosophical/intellectual conversations. Instead, tease her a bit, flirt, etc... Tell her what you want instead of asking for her opinion, etc... Make sure you date / bang other women... Don't be too picky about this. Start this afternoon.

    If you're not willing to let go of the friendship before you are with her and treat her as just another girl, you will not be successful in dating her... You need to be able to walk away form her in order to have her...

    FYI, hate to be the one that breaks this to you, but she has certainly banged one or more of the guys in her "circle"... Most likely it is the sleaziest one, or the one you dislike the most... You need to accept this fact as well.

    Nearly every attractive girl I've been with has a single "friend" who is clearly in love with her and at her beck & call... Don't be that guy... He doesn't get any...

    Listen to Trazer & Relinquis...I've seen this so many times it's sad.

    Unfortunately, the guy that is usually asking this question is so lost / blind that he will take some of the other horrible advice dished out in this thread because it's easier and he's seen to many romantic comedies.

    Also, props to Cluelessfromoz - very few women actually will acknowledge that what Trazer / Relinquis said is your best shot.

    Good luck.

  • TeejNyc's picture

    Thanks guys for the comments...yea this thread is a bit soft, but then I'm a guy in finance working way too many hours and the girls I'm surrounded by are all type A passive aggressive control freaks, and I'm at the point of my life where I hate the feeling of sitting across the table from random chicks that can't carry a conversation to save their own lives - thought that guys here might relate a little better to my predicament.

    Tried detach and ignore, sort of backfired. Ended up in awkward situations with girls who I'd want to slap every time they said something retarded, which was about once every five minutes...you know what i mean...

    The girl has too many guys around her and she treats them (me included) all like her bros more than anything, definitely not your typical emotional train wreck...which makes it even harder to pull off a stunt like detach/ignore.

    Hardest thing is that I've been friends with this chick for 3 years...yea, wtf is wrong with me, I have no fucking clue...

  • In reply to TeejNyc
    Hooked on LEAPS's picture

    TeejNyc wrote:

    Hardest thing is that I've been friends with this chick for 3 years...yea, wtf is wrong with me, I have no fucking clue...

    You're odds just decreased exponentially. Disappear for 3 years and try again.

    Competition is a sin.

    -John D. Rockefeller

  • blastoise's picture

    Take her on 3 dates.

    After the third date you will feel if she cares for you in a romantic kind of way. If not say fuck her and delete her from her life, txt messages - im adresses - facebook - etc

    It will make your life better, you won't think about her as often.

    Trust me I had to do it when I have up Xbox 360 and World of Warcraft

  • In reply to TeejNyc
    trazer985's picture

    TeejNyc wrote:
    Thanks guys for the comments...yea this thread is a bit soft, but then I'm a guy in finance working way too many hours and the girls I'm surrounded by are all type A passive aggressive control freaks, and I'm at the point of my life where I hate the feeling of sitting across the table from random chicks that can't carry a conversation to save their own lives - thought that guys here might relate a little better to my predicament.

    Tried detach and ignore, sort of backfired. Ended up in awkward situations with girls who I'd want to slap every time they said something retarded, which was about once every five minutes...you know what i mean...

    The girl has too many guys around her and she treats them (me included) all like her bros more than anything, definitely not your typical emotional train wreck...which makes it even harder to pull off a stunt like detach/ignore.

    Hardest thing is that I've been friends with this chick for 3 years...yea, wtf is wrong with me, I have no fucking clue...

    im gonna lose my patience with this gimp soon. Do you want this girl or not? Put some fucking effort in, or better yet, give me her number and i'll remind you of the feeling you get when you see some dbag dating your girl.

    it doesnt matter that they're airheads, its female competition.

    put it this way. Your method hasnt worked. whatever you do will feel alien to you. Just spend the $ and get some weights anyway. Do it tomorrow. I'll help you if you put the effort in, don't and you're on your own, schmuck.

  • In reply to trazer985
    TeejNyc's picture

    trazer985 wrote:
    TeejNyc wrote:
    Thanks guys for the comments...yea this thread is a bit soft, but then I'm a guy in finance working way too many hours and the girls I'm surrounded by are all type A passive aggressive control freaks, and I'm at the point of my life where I hate the feeling of sitting across the table from random chicks that can't carry a conversation to save their own lives - thought that guys here might relate a little better to my predicament.

    Tried detach and ignore, sort of backfired. Ended up in awkward situations with girls who I'd want to slap every time they said something retarded, which was about once every five minutes...you know what i mean...

    The girl has too many guys around her and she treats them (me included) all like her bros more than anything, definitely not your typical emotional train wreck...which makes it even harder to pull off a stunt like detach/ignore.

    Hardest thing is that I've been friends with this chick for 3 years...yea, wtf is wrong with me, I have no fucking clue...

    im gonna lose my patience with this gimp soon. Do you want this girl or not? Put some fucking effort in, or better yet, give me her number and i'll remind you of the feeling you get when you see some dbag dating your girl.

    it doesnt matter that they're airheads, its female competition.

    put it this way. Your method hasnt worked. whatever you do will feel alien to you. Just spend the $ and get some weights anyway. Do it tomorrow. I'll help you if you put the effort in, don't and you're on your own, schmuck.

    Dude if I get another set of weights I'd have 2 sets of bowflex stashed in my apartment and look retarded...

    Aside from that, you're right. I know I'm acting like a piece of shit right now and I need to just stop moping around like a loser and change things up.

  • Virginia Tech 4ever's picture

    The very fact that a female is acknowledging that being kind to a girl, having intellectual conversations with her, getting to know her, laughing with her, giving her advice, helping her out in times of need is less effective than being a flirtatious dick with nice arms basically shows why men generally don't respect women or treat them well. I'm a genuinely nice guy, but I've picked up on this very fact that women have no souls and I've upped my game 10-fold the last 2 or 3 years as a result of it. It's a pathetic commentary on American/Western women.

    The real gems are the percentage of women who buck this trend. If you find a woman who is more interested in a man's character than she's interested in playing games then you may have found wife material. Eventually looks fade and flirting loses its flavor--once that happens, all that's left is character, and as it is said, beauty is skin deep but ugly is clear to the bone.

  • In reply to Virginia Tech 4ever
    bossman's picture

    Virginia Tech 4ever wrote:
    The very fact that a female is acknowledging that being kind to a girl, having intellectual conversations with her, getting to know her, laughing with her, giving her advice, helping her out in times of need is less effective than being a flirtatious dick with nice arms basically shows why men generally don't respect women or treat them well. I'm a genuinely nice guy, but I've picked up on this very fact that women have no souls and I've upped my game 10-fold the last 2 or 3 years as a result of it. It's a pathetic commentary on American/Western women.

    The real gems are the percentage of women who buck this trend. If you find a woman who is more interested in a man's character than she's interested in playing games then you may have found wife material. Eventually looks fade and flirting loses its flavor--once that happens, all that's left is character, and as it is said, beauty is skin deep but ugly is clear to the bone.

    True that, but not when you are 20

    Do what you want not what you can!

  • etherlord's picture

    Now WSO will be flooded with losers posting links to "How to have threesomes with supermodels if you are poor and ugly" websites.

    If I was a moderator, I'd close down all these "I can't get laid"/"I banged 1,000,000 chicks" threads.

  • TonyPerkis's picture

    I recommend that surgery where that can turn your vagina into a penis...it may not make you grow a pair of balls, but you can at least look in the mirror and say "i'm a man"

    I eat success for breakfast...with skim milk

  • In reply to TonyPerkis
    RE Capital Markets's picture

    TonyPerkis wrote:
    I recommend that surgery where that can turn your vagina into a penis...it may not make you grow a pair of balls, but you can at least look in the mirror and say "i'm a man"

    Zing. Pretty entertaining thread so far. I am just going ot sit back and enjoy.

    Man made money, money never made the man

  • Chocobo's picture

    After reading this thread, I can't NOT post. I cringed so many times reading the posts...I really hope most of you were joking with your "advice"... I can't believe I'm actually giving out relationship advice on this forum, but this problem is simple. (I'm assuming you want to date her & have a relationship. If all you want is to have sex with her, I don't really know how to help you with that. So, you can skip everything I said below :/)

    As a girl, I don't care if you have slutty girls hanging around you as arm candy or whatever you guys refer to. It may be a guy thing to say "Hey, check out how many girls I can date/bang. You know you want me now. ;D" It doesn't work that way with girls. If you did to that to me, I would think you're a man whore & wouldn't want a relationship with you. Women are usually very perceptive & know when they are with a cute/hot/sexy guy. If you're really that good of a catch, we women pick up on it and we can usually tell when other women are checking you out. So, don't try to be with other girls to rub it in her face to say you can get some. It usually doesn't end up working out as you want it.

    Someone mentioned this before...Do work out. Do whatever you need to do to be your best self. Don't bother her with your problems unless she's willing to listen to you. You want to appear as if you're a catch. You're good looking. You got a good job with a decent salary. (Hopefully, she's not a gold digger & you should know whether she is or not by now) Be a happy person & be exciting by trying out new things & etc. Just be a gentleman...sometimes. Each women has a different type, and you've known her for 3 years so you should know what she likes & dislikes.

    You already have most of the relationship down cause I think everyone wants a friend and a lover in their partner. You're already her friend. If she already talks about other guys with you, then you may be more in the friend zone...but it can be managed. Before you tell you like her, take her out to the movies or something casual. See if there's any chemistry or spark between you two. Be a bit more flirty. I don't know how good teasing would work. Guys tease me all the time & I don't think anything of it other than them being my friends. Of course, my girlfriends have mentioned that it's a 3rd-grade thing to do when a guy likes someone, but still, I don't think anything of it. But if you are teasing her, make it more flirty than casual teasing. Casually put your arm around her shoulder & see how she reacts if you don't do that already. If she's stiff & uncomfortable, back off. Try it again after some time, and if you get the same reaction, she probably doesn't like your touch.

    I don't know how "friendly" you both are so I suggested having your arm around her shoulders. If you both are pretty touchy with each other, you can skip this step. If you're not, get her used to you touching her. (In appropriate areas! Haha) Have your arm around her waist or on the small of her back or her upper arms & then her hand or give her your arm for her to hold. Compliment her on how she looks or how good her hair smells. If you're at the movies, have your arm around her chair or lean in & talk near her ear. It's actually a turn on since ears are pretty sensitive. If she's tired, casually cup the back of her neck & massage that area. The neck is also pretty sensitive...Don't do this all in one date of course, and make sure you're realize how she's reacting to your touch. If she's ok with it, continue. If she's uncomfortable, back off - you probably aren't her type. Take her out to dancing to a club or to actual dancing places like tango or wherever. Obviously, parts of your body will be brushing against each other & you both will be in each other's personal space...you'll know if you have chemistry & if the moment comes up, kiss her. If there is no chemistry or spark after all that, um...I can't really imagine you both having a good sex life so maybe it's best if you both just end up as friends. Sex is important to both women and men. After all, who doesn't love a great orgasm? :D

    Everything I mentioned above probably sounds stupid, but you mentioned she has friended so many guys. I don't know how friendly she is, but I don't let my friends touch me in those ways or let him in my personal space unless I was interested in him or attracted to him. She may be interested in you & attracted to you and maybe, she prefers the guys to make a move first. Maybe, that's why she has all those guy friends cause she's hoping one of you will make your move. I could be completely wrong. There are girls who prefer having guy friends instead of a boyfriend or a relationship. Make sure she doesn't have a boyfriend or interested in another guy casually before you proceed.

    If you do see there is chemistry between you two & she's okay with you being "touchy", tell her you like her & want to date her. You have a reason to think that there's a chance she would like you so take a chance. She may say yes - if so, then congrats! If she says no, try to see how she says no. If she says it as if she would never be caught dead dating you, I'm sorry - she obviously isn't interested. (This can be avoided if you picked up on how she reacts to you being touchy) If she says it as if she's unsure, tell her to take some time to think about it & keep doing what you were doing & keep pursuing her. If she responds back to you or gets more distant, you have your answer either way. Sometimes, her being distant isn't all that bad either - it may mean she wants time to think about it without your influence. Don't they say distance makes the heart grow fonder or something? Maybe some time away from you will make her see what a great guy you are & she'll come around. If she does become distant, don't wait for her. Try to move on. If things don't work out & you want to be her friend still, then mention it & see if things can go back to normal.

    Sorry for this long post. I hope I helped somewhat. If you want to talk about it still, PM me as well.

  • Chocobo's picture

    Dear god, I wrote an essay haha Sorry about that...btw, aren't there many chick flicks on this topic too? Like Hitch maybe? Maybe you can check out click flicks to see how people escaped the friend zone or to see what girls want. After all the movie industry must be doing something right if it keeps the girls interested even with their corny dialogue...

  • In reply to Chocobo
    swagon's picture

    Izuno wrote:
    Dear god, I wrote an essay haha Sorry about that...btw, aren't there many chick flicks on this topic too? Like Hitch maybe? Maybe you can check out click flicks to see how people escaped the friend zone or to see what girls want. After all the movie industry must be doing something right if it keeps the girls interested even with their corny dialogue...

    This follow-up post makes you sound like you have no fucking clue what you're talking about. Fyi.

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