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Hey guys, been lurking on these boards for a while...can't believe my first post is about relationships, but so it is. All the depressing talk around here about marriage and relationships (and in real life) made me realize that a good thing is REALLY hard to come by.

Basically, known this girl since college. She's the rare perfect relationship material type - cute, smart, cooks, plays sports and good at it too, video games (?!), works in finance, can laugh w me, blah blah blah. Always had a thing for her but lately it's dawned on me that if I don't make a move she might get taken real fast...so, what to do?

Thing I don't get with her is that she's friends with a bunch of guys but she's staying single...and no she's not a slut, we run in the same circles so it's easy to tell. So now I'm like one of the guys she hangs out with as friends...no idea how to break out of this position...and I'm on this site on a Saturday night. Yea..how to do it with the LEAST damage potential to friendship?

Advice? Is it even worth risking? Or just forget about it and move on?

Comments (158)

  • In reply to rufiolove
    Chocobo's picture

    rufiolove wrote:
    jayne wrote:
    Here's my mean girl advice to the OP. Give up. You are the guy that I call to move my piano up two flights of stairs or take me to the airport at five a.m. You are afraid to lose your friendship with this girl because you love her sooo much you can't live without her even if that means being "just friends" forever. So just do that. Be that satellite guy that hovers around hoping to swoop in at just the right moment. This is NEVER going to happen. If she really is a smart, gorgeous awesome girl then she has no problem finding guys and if she had any romantic interest at all in you she would have signaled it. Relinquis and trazer985 offered you excellent advice and you just want to whine and argue. I suspect even if you did try to follow it you'd somehow screw it up. If you really want a chance with this girl then do exactly what they've said, make her wonder if she's somehow overlooked how amazing you are. This is your only chance and really you're better off dating a whole bunch of girls and hopefully finding someone more amenable to your advances.

    p.s. of course your previous attempts to detatch backfired, you disappeared and she didn't care.

    You are the girl that a guy texts at 2:30 in the morning asking if you want to hang out.

    You are the girl who thinks that she deserves a great guy but dates douche bags because you think that you you will be the first girl in the history of ever-dom who can change them, when in reality they just want to take you home after a few drinks and disrespect you then move on... Sure maybe he lets you make him a few sandwiches before he leaves you sobbing over the pint of Hagen Dazs you warmed up in the microwave for 30 seconds, giving you ample time to pour yourself a glass of wine and select "The Notebook" on TiVo cuz you're classy like that.

    You are the girl who whines about never being able to find a good guy, while abusing the lack of confidence of the guys around you whom you have so kind-heartedly allowed to pine in your wake. See the thing about guys like the OP is that they will figure it out... it just takes one setback of the heart to realize, hey I'm not going to be that guy anymore. You on the other hand are going to continue to play that role because you can't get out of your own way enough to realize that your shallow, vapid, hooker logic is really just a defense mechanism. We live in a society with too much Oprah, too much Tyra, too much Cosmo, too much People and obsessive compulsion over how if you take this quiz you and your betches will figure out that you're a 7 out of 10 on the kinky scale even though more likely than not kinky for you is swallowing for him on his birthday.

    The funny thing here is that women are always wondering what happened to chivalry... well the answer is that girls like you fucking killed it... thinking you're so witty and clever and desirable by having guys you keep in waiting, knowing full well you aren't going to hook up with them, and then you turn and call guys shallow assholes for trying to hook up with strange at the bar. At least we're upfront with what we do... we don't try to hide it under layers of subtext and passive aggressive bullshit, masquerading as some "Miss Independent" female manifesto churned out by a generation of spoiled brats raised on Reese Witherspoon romantic comedies and Chelsey Lately novels written in 18 font with 1 inch margins semi-cogently rambling about her vagina follies.

    The truth is that the battle of the sexes has long been over. It's been over ever since women began wearing heels to appear taller, lipstick to have redder lips, and push-up bras to accentuate cleavage. Bo-tox, the female Magazine industry. Valentine's Day. Playboy entering publication. Male victory in this realm is evidenced by ESPN sports reporters and female sports stars posing nude to further their careers, Kim Kardashian becoming famous, the existence of shows like The Bachelor.

    This doesn't mean that we should respect you any less... we'll still open doors for you, buy you flowers, put up with sappy rom com that you force to watch in some twisted experiment that "Elle" recommended to you to see if he "is just that into you," but at the end of the day you will realize that all that cursory fluff will never give you the same amount of confidence as a guy who grabs his balls and makes his move. Therein lies our vindication and our absolution...because you can put that guy in the friend zone all you want and laugh to your girlfriend about it over fro-yo while you compliment each other saying things like "Is that a new pair of Tory Burch flats you betch? I hate you" but what he's really thinking is "Listen sweetheart.... you're not hot enough to have that much self esteem, and I can't put my dick in your personality. So the next time you want to have a little laugh to yourself because you think you've got me on speed dial for when you need your piano moved, or a lift back from the airport, or whatever role it is that you have picked out for me to play, just remember that you are a depreciating asset... best work on your personality because those post 30 years are going to be a major mind fuck for you if you don't."

    Poor friend zone guy will be fine, turning a nerdy shy guy into a stud is not hard... it just takes a couple months at the gym and hanging around some dudes who willing to show him the ropes. Changing a shallow material girl into a bring home-to-mom-type is damn near impossible.

    I guess this explains my earlier question...poor guys. :( For those guys who do open doors & buy her flower, thank you. And it's very sweet you're willing to suffer through 2 hours of a mediocre sappy chick flick for her. Hopefully, she'll surprise you with a fancy dinner and sexy time to make up for it.

  • TonyPerkis's picture

    +1 to RufioLove...i absolutely died reading that...

    I eat success for breakfast...with skim milk

  • morgan90's picture

    Say anyway, I agree with most guys here. You need to get yourself out of the friend zone. You're pretty much fucked already since you're already in the zone. The only way you could make her notice you is for you to semi-disappear for awhile. What I mean by that is you need to reduce the time you spend with her. Make it once a month. Be gone once in awhile, but be there on occasions. It helps remind her that you're still there. Don't always take her calls and if you do, say you're busy or have previous appointments already. Don't be her friend at all. Don't listen to her problems. Don't always be there for her. Pretty much, you need to man up and start ignoring her. After awhile, go to some party that you know she also attends. Bring some hot chick and appear extremely happy and successful. Say hi to her and catch up for awhile but stick with your hot date. Leave early with the date. You need to stop fawning on her basically. And as you do all of these, I'm pretty sure you're gonna get her interested in you. She will question where you've been, haven't seen you around and stuff. Just give whatever answer you want as long as it is not lame. Afterwards, things will start rolling on its own. Keep doing that and she's gonna fall on your lap in no time... Dating is basically a game.. Push and pull. Gotta know when to push and when to pull. Girls might say that this is not the way to win them, but trust me, this is the only way. It's all about psychology man

  • In reply to Chocobo
    trazer985's picture

    June Rose wrote:
    rufiolove wrote:
    jayne wrote:
    Harsh, but fair

    Solid advice - Will be recycling that personality quote

    I guess this explains my earlier question...poor guys. :( For those guys who do open doors & buy her flower, thank you. And it's very sweet you're willing to suffer through 2 hours of a mediocre sappy chick flick for her. Hopefully, she'll surprise you with a fancy dinner and sexy time to make up for it.

    I have no idea what planet you live on June, but it aint the same as the one the rest of the world is on. This just factually isn't true, and the fault lies with women. It's almost like a client service industry. We do what the client wants and get what we want out of it. If it didn't work, WE WOULDNT DO IT. However women (these competitive ones we keep blabbing on about) have to outmakeup/outslim/outslag each other. Remember before when sex on a first date was considered taboo? It's more common than not to get anything you want on a first date, even a lot of stuff if you ask (and i do) in the cold light of day if they wanted to. Have men's desires changed in the past 1000 years? Nope, so the change is on the other side. This feminist drive, with everything from the contraceptive pill (the best invention for men in the past 50 years) to the we pay our own way.

    The difference between men and women? Men compete to be the best, so they can tell women about it. Women compete to get the best man. The 2 are not the same.

  • TonyPerkis's picture

    the moral of this whole thread is that if you dig a chick, sack up, make a move, and if she doesnt go with it..then throw her off a bridge

    am i correct in stating that? that's what i've gathered so far

    I eat success for breakfast...with skim milk

  • In reply to trazer985
    Chocobo's picture

    trazer985 wrote:
    June Rose wrote:
    rufiolove wrote:
    jayne wrote:
    Harsh, but fair

    Solid advice - Will be recycling that personality quote

    I guess this explains my earlier question...poor guys. :( For those guys who do open doors & buy her flower, thank you. And it's very sweet you're willing to suffer through 2 hours of a mediocre sappy chick flick for her. Hopefully, she'll surprise you with a fancy dinner and sexy time to make up for it.

    I have no idea what planet you live on June, but it aint the same as the one the rest of the world is on. This just factually isn't true, and the fault lies with women. It's almost like a client service industry. We do what the client wants and get what we want out of it. If it didn't work, WE WOULDNT DO IT. However women (these competitive ones we keep blabbing on about) have to outmakeup/outslim/outslag each other. Remember before when sex on a first date was considered taboo? It's more common than not to get anything you want on a first date, even a lot of stuff if you ask (and i do) in the cold light of day if they wanted to. Have men's desires changed in the past 1000 years? Nope, so the change is on the other side. This feminist drive, with everything from the contraceptive pill (the best invention for men in the past 50 years) to the we pay our own way.

    The difference between men and women? Men compete to be the best, so they can tell women about it. Women compete to get the best man. The 2 are not the same.

    So, you're saying a guy won't be a gentleman or whatever without trying to get laid? You can't generalize once again. I know some guys who will do such things cause that's how they were raised. They don't think about it - just do it.

    It's sad that so many women have sex on the first date...well, I think it's degrading womankind even more but obviously, it's great from the guy's point of view. Well, if what you say is true, then I guess I wouldn't get married. Since a guy just wants sex, he can find it easily. No need for marriage, which explains why many people on here are against marriage. If I ever feel like I want to be a mother, I suppose I could adopt or spoil my sister's baby, when she has one. (she's the rare one who found love with her first boyfriend & after 9 years of being together, they are getting married this may)

    It is a guy's world. You're right. So is rufiolove. The battle has been over for a long time. I do want to say congrats since the media and the society makes it ok to pose half-naked on magazines, or women walking around with cleavage that practically half of their boobs are falling out. Sounds like its a win for the guys since it's easier to get laid & not have any consequences. But if that's the case, why do most of you sound miserable? Clearly, the men have won. We women have pole dancing as an exercise class. Our workouts are focused on lifting & firming our chest & ass. Cosmo & other magazines mention how to be ____ for a guy or to get a guy. If you go shopping, you notice all the clothes are tight & focused on making your chest look bigger than they actually are. Not only that but they're also practically transparent that you almost always need to wear a tank top or something just to make it decent to wear in public. Even bra shopping, we have so many ways of trying to make our chest look a couple sizes bigger (which I don't really get cause I would think a guy would feel disappointed after seeing her braless since her A chest only seemed like a C but I guess guys like to look at it still). And the way we maintain our body has also changed. We have many ways to make our skin smooth or young- shaving is no longer good enough so we wax practically everything. Some girls tan to hide their impurities even if it might cause skin damage (i hate those girls who tan so much that they look orange..) Even high heels are for men so that your chest and ass sticks out more & looks more firm & round.

    From the way we dress to how we take care of our bodies is all for men, obviously. Well, I know some girls do it for themselves, but still, the society is favorable to a guy. And now, getting laid is very common. So, why are some of you miserable? Some people just sound upset or sad - is it because of stress from work or are you really upset?

  • Leonidas's picture

    June Rose, yes slaying randoms is easier, but finding a mature, responsible, and kind woman is next to impossible these days. They play absurd games to try to make you prove yourself - even if you're already head over heels for her. I agree with some of the others in that OP will bounce back eventually. I was naive at first as well. In my first ever relationship, I was nice, sincere, and genuinely wanted to hear about her problems at the end of the day. And what did she do for me? Why, cheat on me with a random asshole of course. It took me two other (similar) relationships to get back to reality. But I eventually understood that there was a game to be played, and I was not playing it. So, I started playing it.

    In short, we are disappointed that the kind of woman who could one day be the mother of my child is getting fewer and further in between.

    Calling Ron Paul an isolationist is like calling your neighbor a hermit because he doesn't come over to your property and break your windows.

  • twinwings's picture

    Wow, second post of my account,

    Here it goes,

    I wish I had the troubles you have but sadly I have a lot more stressful ones,

    In any case, my advice is: Be straight up, find some time when you are alone with her and lay it all on the table.

    Because, if things keep going like this (3 years you have known her), you will be friends forever, she will find a boyfriend and sooner or later you will be at her wedding clapping along to her first dance with her husband.

    So lay it all on the line and say something like "Listen, I really do not want to come out as rough and tough, and I hope you don't take this the wrong way and more importantly I hope we can still be friends..but I really want to get this off my chest. I want to say that I find you to be a great(choose your own adjectives here) woman and I would love nothing more if we can go for a date and see how things work out.

  • moneymogul's picture

    Reading this thread absolutely depresses me. We've all been here at one point or another.

    “Be a yardstick of quality. Some people aren't used to an environment where excellence is expected.” - Jobs

  • TonyPerkis's picture

    /\ But what if no means yes?? as it almost always does

    I eat success for breakfast...with skim milk

  • makeyourownluck's picture

    your really spending all this time worrying over 1 girl, c'mon plenty of girls in NYC to go after, forget her and move on.

    its one way or the other: hate me or admire.

  • etherlord's picture

    Then you are still better off to go look somewhere else and find a girl who will like you enough to say "yes". If you have to solve riddles in the beginning, it will only get worse from there.

    Also, have you heard about stalking or rape? A lot of those guys thought a "no" was a "yes", but ended up in jail.

  • TeejNyc's picture

    I see that this thread has taken on a life of its own while I've been slaving away at work, I'm speechless.

    For the record, she's one of the nicest people I know, and she's helped me A LOT more than I've helped her. So in terms of generalities, she's not the bitch who calls me when she's lonely or needs a hand in moving furniture (I know the type)...if anything, she'd be the one helping me move and pulling me out of ruts...

    And I'm not some shy nerd who's never stepped foot inside a gym, quite the contrary.

    I asked her to dinner, she said yes. Just going to run with it. I know I'm going to get shit on by a lot of guys here, but...life goes on.

    Peace.

  • In reply to TeejNyc
    GentlemanJack's picture

    TeejNyc wrote:

    I asked her to dinner, she said yes. Just going to run with it. I know I'm going to get shit on by a lot of guys here, but...life goes on.

    Well did you ask her to dinner or did you ask her for a date??? The difference is VERY important. I commend your direct approach, its definitely the best idea, but unless its clear to her that this is a date, then it will backfire on you.

  • In reply to TeejNyc
    TonyPerkis's picture

    TeejNyc wrote:

    I asked her to dinner, she said yes. Just going to run with it. I know I'm going to get shit on by a lot of guys here, but...life goes on.

    you blew it dude

    I eat success for breakfast...with skim milk

  • In The Flesh's picture

    A wise gentleman (okay, it was Tucker Max) said that of the following three female attributes, pick only two out of three, because it's impossible to have them all:

    1. Hot
    2. Sane
    3. Single

    Oh, and rufio: that was magnificent.

    Metal. Music. Life. www.headofmetal.com

  • In reply to In The Flesh
    OhYeah's picture

    In The Flesh wrote:
    A wise gentleman (okay, it was Tucker Max) said that of the following three female attributes, pick only two out of three, because it's impossible to have them all:

    1. Hot
    2. Sane
    3. Single

    Oh, and rufio: that was magnificent.

    Oh damn, life's not fair

    "Sincerity is an overrated virtue" - Milton Friedman

  • In reply to OhYeah
    In The Flesh's picture

    OhYeah wrote:
    In The Flesh wrote:
    A wise gentleman (okay, it was Tucker Max) said that of the following three female attributes, pick only two out of three, because it's impossible to have them all:

    1. Hot
    2. Sane
    3. Single

    Oh, and rufio: that was magnificent.

    Oh damn, life's not fair

    Take from it what you will.

    Metal. Music. Life. www.headofmetal.com

  • StyleT's picture

    TeejNyc wrote:
    Hey guys, been lurking on these boards for a while...can't believe my first post is about relationships, but so it is. All the depressing talk around here about marriage and relationships (and in real life) made me realize that a good thing is REALLY hard to come by.

    Basically, known this girl since college. She's the rare perfect relationship material type - cute, smart, cooks, plays sports and good at it too, video games (?!), works in finance, can laugh w me, blah blah blah. Always had a thing for her but lately it's dawned on me that if I don't make a move she might get taken real fast...so, what to do?

    Thing I don't get with her is that she's friends with a bunch of guys but she's staying single...and no she's not a slut, we run in the same circles so it's easy to tell. So now I'm like one of the guys she hangs out with as friends...no idea how to break out of this position...and I'm on this site on a Saturday night. Yea..how to do it with the LEAST damage potential to friendship?

    Advice? Is it even worth risking? Or just forget about it and move on?

    The difference between a friend and a lover is one thing...sex...Therefore, when you do go out with the girl, please be interesting (as others have said). You MUST arouse her sexual/animal side, you should talk about sex yet not in a pervy way, but as light and playful. You must ignite her CURIOSITY, to get her to the point of thinking "hmmm maybe he may be fun ;)" If you dont, you will always be in the friend zone. Throw all the gentlemanly/dudley do right BS out the window...

    This coming from a guy who has been in your situation 15 times atleast who didnt figure it out until junior yr of college...

  • In reply to TeejNyc
    Relinquis's picture

    TeejNyc wrote:
    I see that this thread has taken on a life of its own while I've been slaving away at work, I'm speechless.

    For the record, she's one of the nicest people I know, and she's helped me A LOT more than I've helped her. So in terms of generalities, she's not the bitch who calls me when she's lonely or needs a hand in moving furniture (I know the type)...if anything, she'd be the one helping me move and pulling me out of ruts...

    And I'm not some shy nerd who's never stepped foot inside a gym, quite the contrary.

    I asked her to dinner, she said yes. Just going to run with it. I know I'm going to get shit on by a lot of guys here, but...life goes on.

    Peace.

    Go for it... from the way you talk about her, you might have a keeper...

    Please don't ask for permission before you plant one on her.

  • In reply to Relinquis
    Leonidas's picture

    Calling Ron Paul an isolationist is like calling your neighbor a hermit because he doesn't come over to your property and break your windows.

  • neil joseph's picture

    "A man travels the world over in search of what he needs and returns home to find it." ~George Moore

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