Moving from Boutique to BB

What are the chances of making a move from a NYC boutique to a BB firm. I am currently interning/working with a boutique (analyst type role) and going to law school at night (top tier-2 school). I got my MBA (Finance) at the same place I did my undergrad and they gave it to me for free in a year.

The team I am working with just moved from another firm, and their track record shows a decent history of deal flow.

What do you think?

 

Here's my take:

If you are at some BS 5 man shop no 1 has ever heard of and trying to do deals that no one else would touch, it will be extremely difficult. Easier than breaking in? Sure, but still very difficult since you probably did not get exposure to valuation work let alone the analyst experience banks want you to have.

If you are at a reputable lower MM shop with great deal flow and a few deals closed under your belt and can really articulate your experiences and explain why you want to move, you chances are much more improved. When you "lateral" most banks will have you start over as a first year.

Good luck to you.

 

I don't know, but your 2nd paragraph has horrible grammar. No diggity shit.

I expected more from someone working in IBD.

You see my profile picture? That's how I feel when I read what you type.

Man cannot remake himself without suffering, for he is both the marble and the sculptor. -Dr. Alexis Carrel
 
xxix:
I don't know, but your 2nd paragraph has horrible grammar. No diggity shit.

I expected more from someone working in IBD.

You see my profile picture? That's how I feel when I read what you type.

Don't be a dork man, STFU... expected better. Nerd. I'm sure he writes that way when hes putting a book together too.

'Before you enter... be willing to pay the price'
 

I'm addressing professionals who also work in the industry, Not snot nosed kids who are trying to make it. When you've written your own book or have read one of mine then come back to me on grammar. Trust me when you work with CEOs and VPs at mutli-billion dollar funds, 13 hours a day, who put smiley faces at the end in their emails you'll also not really give a damn about grammar perfection on some blog at 1am. Now if anyone with experience wants to speak I welcome it.

 

best way is through networking.

for example, you work at a boutique that advises lower middle market companies ($15-50 million in revenue, for example) on sales and assists in raising capital via debt or equity.

at some point, you'll meet with bankers from the other side. the ones representing the buyer or the ones lending the capital.

over time, after the deal is done and everyone is happy, you reach out and ask to meet them over coffee to build a network or something. you learn about their firm and as you get to know the person you express your interest in transitioning to a bigger firm for whatever reason. they introduce you to more people and then when a position opens up they let you know, you send them your resume, they make sure you get a shot at an interview.

if everyone you meet likes you and thinks you're capable, boom you get the job.

now if i could only get someone to send me a job interview case study for a hedge fund.


I'm making it up as I go along.

------------ I'm making it up as I go along.
 
Cornelius:
best way is through networking.

for example, you work at a boutique that advises lower middle market companies ($15-50 million in revenue, for example) on sales and assists in raising capital via debt or equity.

at some point, you'll meet with bankers from the other side. the ones representing the buyer or the ones lending the capital.

over time, after the deal is done and everyone is happy, you reach out and ask to meet them over coffee to build a network or something. you learn about their firm and as you get to know the person you express your interest in transitioning to a bigger firm for whatever reason. they introduce you to more people and then when a position opens up they let you know, you send them your resume, they make sure you get a shot at an interview.

if everyone you meet likes you and thinks you're capable, boom you get the job.

now if i could only get someone to send me a job interview case study for a hedge fund.


I'm making it up as I go along.

Thanks for the input, I appreciate it.

 

Depends what sort of boutiques. But certainly wouldn't imagine you'd start at first year if fresh out of college are starting at first year, and lawyers and corporate development people are starting at 3rd yr or associate levels.

They'll either take you as an associate or 3rd year, or they won't take you at all (even if you're willing to start at 1st year and not take a bonus)

 

I would say you have a very strong chance provided you network properly. Your experience is equally weighted with IB and S&T work experience so I would have a good answer fot why you want one over the other because you know that that question is going to come up and you should have a decent answer given your work experience.

"Greed, in all of its forms; greed for life, for money, for love, for knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind. And greed, you mark my words, will not only save Teldar Paper, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA."
 

Many thanks to all your replies. Can I get a few pointers of good networking practices? - Where to network? - How to do it? How not to overdo it? - What kind of right questions to ask? which right person to approach to? - How to appropriately highlight my experiences?

I've made a good impression with 1 corp-fin guy i knew from his bank's (BB) recruiting session. I've kept his contact for a long time but didnt have the chance to actually approach him. I believe it's been almost a year now. Do u even think its still appropriate to make a base of contact now? Thanks

I know thats a lot of questions.. LOL

 

They should really change the title of this forum to, "If you're not sure, NETWORK!" You can make anything happen with above average social skills and a little effort.

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer "Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee
 

Maybe not exactly as the OP case, but is it difficult to transfer from a boutique to BB once you start working full-time ?Would any bank be interested to take you in their grad programme (in Europe) ?

 

You're fine dude. Just follow the advice to network your ass off and you'll be fine. Make multiple touch points at each bank... have each contact introduce you to other guys and keep growing your network/exposure at each bank....

make sure the contacts you are making know that they can help you by shooting a note into campus recruiting and mentioning you after your meetings with them (obviously, this is only if you rmeetings go well)

 

I just finished my first year as an associate at a regional boutique and about 3 months ago, decided to see if there was a chance for me to make the switch to bulge. These guys are right - it was purely networking. I reached out to any/all business school buddies, people I had met during recruiting, friends of friends, random headhunters etc. etc. I was pleasantly surprised to find out how many connections I could make once I took the time to sit down and think about it. My impression is that most of the BB firms are hiring associates and analysts, especially as analysts are rolling off their 2 yrs - its just a question of getting the resume in the right hands. It worked out well for me (heard back yday), hope it does for you as well. Looking back, one piece of advice, I would highly recommend interviewing with a couple of regional/local banks first to make sure you're back in interview mode and ready for prime time (BB).

 

Why is he trying to lateral to a BB later if he can just take a BB offer right now? Can you be more specific as to which group of firms hes considering offers from?

Banking > VC > Tech PE; PM me if you would like any advice I'm happy to help
 

If your friend has an offer from a BB IBD, then why are they worried about exit ops in terms of moving from a MM bank to a BB bank? It is already an option for them if that is where they want to end up.

I would think that going to the BB IBD would increase their overall chance in moving into PE down the road, but you could definitely get there from a MM.

 

Well, he didn't get an offer from GS/MS...so he thinks that if his chances of landing a IBD job at a top BB such as GS were to increase by working at a boutique for 2 years...he would do it.

haha...I don't know if that's the right thinking

Best, SoulSearching

Best, SoulSearching
 
Best Response

He should take the BB offer now and do it. This is like someone with a PE offer out of school asking if it's better to do IBD first, only even less logical than that.

GS/MS vs. other BBs make literally almost no difference... and he'd have a much better chance of getting into one of those by working at a BB rather than a boutique for a few years.

In general for FT offers it's almost always right to go to a BB if you have the choice... yes, sometimes MM/boutique experience can be better, but you have a better chance of getting better experience at a BB and it's all ultimately a numbers game.

That's not to say a MM or boutique is bad per se, as you can definitely get into PE from either of those. It's just you have a better chance with a BB name as your access to headhunters will be better.

 

i agree with the other posters. generally speaking, it is much easier to move from BB to MM boutique than MM boutique to BB. and while it is certainly possible to make the switch to BB as well as to PE from a MM boutique, it is certainly riskier and less probable.

Author of www.IBankingFAQ.com
 

Unless he loves the people at the MM and absolutely hates the guys at the BB, then take the big bank. It is always easier to move to a smaller company from a bigger than the other way around, in every line of business. The big bank will get him bigger and likely more deals to put on his resume, which means greater exit opps, all things equal.

Besides, isn't MM boutique an oxymoron? MM would be middle market, boutique would be small-market deals or one extremely focused industry in the MM, which further narrows exit opps.

 

i actually spoke about this with a few people at BBs. 1 was a VP at HR, and the other was a VP in the IBD dept at a different BB.

And from what they've told me is, you need like 2-3 years of experience. They've also told me that its pretty hard to do, and that the best bet is to go back to business school and then come in at the associate level.

 

It's not that hard. I know a lot of people that have done it. Two of the people I know that have done it are stars at their respective BBs now.

Wait until January, if the market is still good then start looking for experienced hire postings at recruiting firms. Network if you can, but anything under the MD level isn't worth a lot of effort meaning if you know someone great, but don't go out of your way to buddy up to some Associate or VP.

Having said all that, the transition will be much harder this year than the last three years. IBs are pretty much fully staffed now and deal flow is projected to lighten up based on some of the earnings calls over the last few days.

---------------- Account Inactive
 
buysideanalyst:
Why not? If you have the opportunity to work at a better place, take it. Just make sure the grass is greener on the other side before leaving the pasture you know.
actually I think the grass really isn't better coming from a regional bank.

1) You have lower cost of living...in NYC you'll spend 2K per month on any decent apartment, for 2K in canada I'm sure you can own a nice house. 2) Hours are a lot worse, I spoke to a few middle market banks/boutiques and they talked about 60-80 hour work weeks, at a BB you are guaranteed 100 hour work weeks 3) Pay might be less, but the difference is insignificant once you count up the hours you work, and think about it...for your age bracket you are pretty much making the top coin...do you really want to sacrifice 40% more time, and your health to make 20% more, which you'll piss away on rent, and the rest you won't even be able to enjoy since you work 24/7 4) At BBs there is a lot more competition, so you can be a star at a smaller bank and get the top bonus, while at a big firm you'll be average and get the middle bonus.

Granted the prestige of working at a bigger bank are great, but at the analyst/associate level do you really care if you have to plug in 50mm or 800mm into your model?

 
prospie:
aspiring monkey you are so wrong

think about exit opps

and think about whether HBS wants to accept someone from Goldman or someone at Petsky Prunier

well yeah exit opps are good...but it has to do with the prestige that I mentioned.
 

as for the b school comment that top schools would prefer people from GS, ms ect over boutiques isn't entirely accurate. Think about it 1. at a boutique you get way more interaction with the MD/partnes in a family type setting, typically they went to top bschools and will not only give you great letters of rec but also go out of their way to help you get into their alma mater (whether its because they are donors, will make calls, have friends in the right places etc.) you will have a much closer relationship with them than you would at a big bank and the will want to help you that much more because of it. 2. bb analysts are a dime a dozen, top schools want diversity not an entire class made up of ex bb analysts, for bschool you compete against your peers, so if your coming from a bb your competing against your fellow bb analysts, whereas if you have a solid gig at a boutique and work you way up and start playing a role within the business development aspect i'm sure that carries weight, they know you don't come from a bb but at the same time your not a cookie cutter 3. clearly if your a top analyst at a bb you have a great shot at a top school but i don't think every analyst gets into top schools there simply isn't enough room for them, for the average analyst there is probably no advantage of going working at a bb when it come to b school admissions

 

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