FT Recruiting in Aug.
It would be great if someone could give advice on FT recruiting in Aug.
Do spots open up? Is it harder than OCR? How to network with people over the summer? Going to what group would put me in better position?
Thanks in advance!
Are you trying to compare FT recruiting to SA recruiting?
FT is much more difficult. Not only is it more difficult on a purely statistical standpoint (fewer spots), the competition is a lot tougher (kids trying to move from one BB to another, from a MM to a BB, etc.).
The best networking advice would be to start immediately. For FT recruiting, I would reach out to people in April/May, meet for coffee or do follow up calls in June/July, and then reach out for more advice (code word for an interview) in late July/early August.
It's tough. Aim to grab a SA somewhere you enjoy. I'm pretty close with our recruiting associates, and they were throwing some numbers out. We had 100+ people apply for our group alone...we had 2 spots...ouch. And they said the story was no different at other groups at our bank.
We had people from Moelis, BAML, Barclays, Citi, CS, Lazard, etc. apply. Tough competition. Don't want to scare you, just trying to let you know what you're up against.
@"Sil", @"SmokeyG"
Thanks for the advice!
So I have an exploding offer for SA from one of the BB's. Time was too short to schedule interviews with other firms. It's not that I am not happy with the offer that I have but just want to have variety of options to choose from not just one.
Would it be better to wait for regular OCR?
Also wouldn't it look bad to start networking with the other firms even before I had started my SA position?
I get that you'd want to see if you could do better than your current offer but it is so not worth it. Recruiting can be a crapshoot & a lot of people walk away with just one offer. I don't think the potential to move up is worth the risk of ending up with nothing. Trust me, FT recruiting after an SA stint is difficult. FT recruiting with no SA is becoming close to impossible.
I switched firms from EB to BB between SA and FT. It is definitely a lot harder than SA recruitment but if you spend next semester and this summer building strong connections with people at other firms it is very doable. Your best bet will be to have really strong alumni connections who will actually pull for you instead of just forwarding your resume to HR.
I wouldn't worry too much about how networking would look before you start your SA position. Just frame it very carefully, like you're looking for general advice on how to be a great SA before starting. Keep in touch with these people and then after you've started, you can bring up the subject of possibly transitioning to their firm. I'm willing to bet established, well kept up with contacts would be very receptive to this approach.
Thank you so much @"MrF"
+1
This is good advice. Keep in mind that attrition in banking is extremely high. After putting in a year at a BB, you could definitely lateral to another BB.
I think it really depends on where you are for the summer and what your goals are, so it's a bit hard for any of us to give advice not knowing either of those things.
In general it's fair to say that for accelerated FT, networking is more important, the process is much swifter (in my experience, direct to "superday" without any first-round interview), and of course where you did your SA / whether you got a return offer is extremely important (much more than prior internships matter for junior year SA recruiting)
That said if you have a very competitive resume there are plenty of opportunities. I applied to several banks/PE shops/HF, never networked with anyone, never attended the summer events those firms held, and received interviews at all of them. I did not end up going to the interviews so I cant say much about how they differed from SA, but my point is that if you have a good background & good SA stint, but happen to want to switch because you don't like the specific group you are in (culture, type of deals, etc), you have a decent shot. On the other hand it'll likely be much more difficult to "trade up" to a "better" firm.
FT recruiting in August (Originally Posted: 04/27/2015)
When does FT recruiting actually start? Does it start right after SA? Or sometime later? And if anyone has FT recruiting experience, can you please share your experience?
Thanks in advance
@"Extelleron" Thanks for the advice. Would it be okay if I PM you to ask some follow-up questions?
I accepted a BB FT offer before the end of August... had interviews that started like 1st-2nd week of August if I remember correctly...
Though I know people who were still recruiting in October and November for at least Chicago offices... Also had a person at a NY EB tell me they got screwed on recruiting for starting-2014 analysts so they bumps things forward last year to early August.
Thanks Forrest So the interviews start right after SA?
Also interested. Is it structured or should I reach out to these banks by myself? At my school, they post jobs on our board
do the job openings get posted or do you just start hammering places with emails? anybody walked into a shop with resume in hand? how do we know when to start?
NY FT recruiting can start as early as late July (when GS started this year - they only had a few spots though), and JPM and MS went directly to superdays in August and September (some other BBs, like BAML, didn't recruit at all). In general, it's far less structured than SA recruiting - it's critical to have relationships (friends interning there, alumni, etc.) that you can leverage to get your foot in the door, because (at least at my target school) no openings got posted. No major differences to SA recruiting in terms of formats and questions asked, although I thought they tended to be marginally more rigorous/discerning given that they have fewer spots on hand and the average candidate (generally working elsewhere in finance) tends to be better than for SA
This. Last summer most EB and BB groups were done with FT recruiting by the 3rd week of August. A few spots pop up in September/early October if kids from target schools reject their return offers, but this is rare and you really need to know someone in the specific group to even know that a spot has opened.
This - in my experience, the important points are "far less structured" and "critical to have relationships" because like mentioned elsewhere, a lot of times they are just filling in spots for summer who decide not to go back or people that renegade/don't make it through the summer. Thus, its the people you know at the bank that say "Hey, look at this resume" even though the banks haven't posted openings online/at campuses. One EB told me "We won't even post anything on campus - if people reach out to us we know they want they job so we will start with them for FT"
would HH know about these openings as soon as they open up? and is it okay to contact HH if you're not in banking already? lets say you've been practicing all your valuation concepts, passed level II CFA exam, etc. would HH take you seriously? seems like they can be pretty useful but not sure how open they are to people trying to break into the industry
thanks for the input @trueblue and @thoughtleader. SBs when I get my credits up
Haven't had much experience with headhunters so take this with a grain of salt, but I don't believe they're too relevant at tge 1st year analyst placement level at BBs and MMs. From my understanding, they're used more for niche boutique shops. This summer I went through the process at several places and all the networking events/interviews I had were acquired through contacts I had in place at the specific banks. You can feel free to PM for more specifics.
So you have to be in contact with people in other banks? If you are interning at one of the banks how do you do this? How do you stealthily network with people while interning?
FT recruitment is all about networking. Opportunities are not posted but there is almost always some interviewing going on. Now is the time to make some relationships for FT if you have not done so already.
Can anyone comment on the FT timeline in London? I'm a junior at a US target but will be doing my SA in London so I imagine it will be extremely difficult to interview for NYC opportunities. I'm at a large but non-BB bank in IBD and FT hiring needs are not clear. I'm a US citizen and would probably rather be in New York but it seems I might be better off focusing my limited free time and energy over the summer on the London recruiting process. I have a few contacts there but not as many as in NYC.
Timeline is about right. I went through the FT process to lateral. Interviews began as early as August but went through September / early August depending on the process.
.
Wouldn't say you're SOL. If there's even just 1 or 2 that can go to bat for you that can make the difference and get you to the interview stage. From there on it's up to you to impress.
Im a non-target... not SOL at all. I had a few offers and turned down two superdays, and had a number of first/second round interviews that I didn't pass. You have to network though - took me a year of networking and ~400 or so emails, bit once u get to interviews you are basically on level playing ground with the target kids.
Here for a little detail: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/accepted-an-offer-how-non-targets…
Pretty volatile in my opinion. As some have said, they were being interviewed as early as August. Personally, I've seen a lot more Oct/Nov but that's me. Best solution? Get started early, start reaching out to the network early August.
I'm a nontarget who went through FT recruiting at a few firms. I found that some banks had structured recruiting processes, but most didn't. It really depended on if the bank knew that they needed to expand their analyst class. My first interviews were mostly with EBs, and began the last week of July. I also had interviews with a few BBs, and these took place a little later in August and into the first week of September. The majority of my interviews were group-specific, and I was invited to interview because I had been networking with a person/people in the group throughout the summer.
Don't wait until August to start networking, by this point some banks will have already begun their processes and others may have already finished. In addition, some banks will host networking breakfasts or happy hours for candidates who are on their radar throughout the summer and most of the ones I went to were early to mid July.
Did any of the EBs make you interview during work? How did you balance that?
I think I want to try something different after I graduate this June from a target, but I'm still really intent on doing a two-year analyst stint, even at a small boutique. I just want the experience since you can only be an analyst when you're young, and I'm missing my chance now.
How plausible is trying to get a temporary job for the time being while recruiting for full time towards the middle and end of this summer? This is 1 year delayed basically; I did a summer analyst stint summer 2014 but didn't return or recruit full time in the August after it ended (like I probably should have), so I know I'm running out of time before I age out of being an analyst and might as well drop the cash money for business school to come in as an associate.
I 100% accept and personally agree that it's all about networking and less-structured recruiting for straight to FT, but I'm not sure how to go about it as a soon-to-be graduate in terms of structure.
bump ^
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