believe full name is forex capital markets, or at least it was when i worked there 4 years ago.

i worked on the sales side, selling the platform. it wasn't cold calling, we would only call people that had signed up for more information, but it's retail, and thus pretty terrible. there are decent other projects and "groups" that you could get involved in (selling/supporting the automated trading platform).

also, there is a dealing room, and that could potentially be a great way to learn about dealing/trading fx. no idea on how the firm would be perceived on street, probably about in the middle. one sales guy did end up at jpm, but yet again this was in the heady days of early 2006.

 
Best Response
Spectro:
don't use their platform. They make their money by trading against their clients.

oh dear... the big bad market makers..... lol u mean they take the other side of a trade.... i.e. if a client wants to buy $100,000 EURUSD, FXCM will sell them $100,000 EURUSD...and collect the bid/ask spread... just like every other market maker in the FX space.

The only difference between the DB FX spot desk and the FXCM desk is that our clients aren't allowed to move less than $1,000,000 notional.

Rule of thumb: if it bothers you that your dealer is trading against you.... then you shouldn't be trading because you've failed to understand the cardinal rule of trading... for every buyer, there is a seller. And if its not FXCM, its somebody else.

You wouldn't happen to be a friend of Senator Carl Levin would you?

 
FXTrader:
Spectro:
don't use their platform. They make their money by trading against their clients.

Rule of thumb: if it bothers you that your dealer is trading against you.... then you shouldn't be trading because you've failed to understand the cardinal rule of trading... for every buyer, there is a seller. And if its not FXCM, its somebody else.

You wouldn't happen to be a friend of Senator Carl Levin would you?

LOL! ouch!

 
Jerome Marrow:
FXTrader:
Spectro:
don't use their platform. They make their money by trading against their clients.

oh dear... the big bad market makers..... lol u mean they take the other side of a trade.... i.e. if a client wants to buy $100,000 EURUSD, FXCM will sell them $100,000 EURUSD...and collect the bid/ask spread... just like every other market maker in the FX space.

The only difference between the DB FX spot desk and the FXCM desk is that our clients aren't allowed to move less than $1,000,000 notional.

Rule of thumb: if it bothers you that your dealer is trading against you.... then you shouldn't be trading because you've failed to understand the cardinal rule of trading... for every buyer, there is a seller. And if its not FXCM, its somebody else.

You wouldn't happen to be a friend of Senator Carl Levin would you?

Okay you're on an exotics desk and bitching about people complaining about there being big spreads in spot FX. Take a look for christ's sake before you put your foot in your mouth. Spreads are basically non-existent outside of bucket retail scammers for spot. I think people have some right to be upset when they get fucked on stuff like that.

seriously can you read?

my only comments were directed at the guy complaining about "trading against clients" which has nothing to do with outsized spreads.

....take 2 steps back kid

 

Haha that French girl from Wall Street Warriors worked there.

I trade on their Micro FX platform and my experience has been positive. I think they're news/research site is DailyFX.com, which I have not been all that impressed with for the most part.

 
Jerome Marrow:
FXTrader, how big are the spreads on the markets you trade? Most FX markets that aren't retail have essentially 0 spreads. The retail FX sector scams people with massive 'slippage' and unusually large spreads. I don't know about FXCM, but most are nearly 100% a scam and barely legitimate, if at all.

I...trade...exotics....so if you want a reverse knock-out put option struck at 1.2000 on EURUSD expiring in 2 weeks with the KO @ 1.17, I'll quote you : 9/20 bps (b/a)

But for spot... I can't help you

 
Jerome Marrow:
FXTrader, how big are the spreads on the markets you trade? Most FX markets that aren't retail have essentially 0 spreads. The retail FX sector scams people with massive 'slippage' and unusually large spreads. I don't know about FXCM, but most are nearly 100% a scam and barely legitimate, if at all.

you're a pretty angry guy, huh? Sounds like you've experienced some hardship, but just relax

 
CanadianTrader:
Jerome Marrow:
FXTrader, how big are the spreads on the markets you trade? Most FX markets that aren't retail have essentially 0 spreads. The retail FX sector scams people with massive 'slippage' and unusually large spreads. I don't know about FXCM, but most are nearly 100% a scam and barely legitimate, if at all.

you're a pretty angry guy, huh? Sounds like you've experienced some hardship, but just relax

Don't trade retail, so not at all. It does irk me when people in the industry give it a bad name by scamming those who don't know. Taking advantage of unsophisticated people for a cheap profit is pretty scummy in my eyes.

 
Jerome Marrow:
Just saw you're on a spot FX desk for DB.... Come on, son, you know that there isn't shit in the way of spreads on legitimate spot FX, but some of these FX retail buckets has 5-10x as big spreads. You know that shit is a scam.

?... who's on a spot FX desk?... If youve been on these forums, youd know I`m on the FX Exotics desk. ....come on son...

 

Okay you're on an exotics desk and bitching about people complaining about there being big spreads in spot FX. Take a look for christ's sake before you put your foot in your mouth. Spreads are basically non-existent outside of bucket retail scammers for spot. I think people have some right to be upset when they get fucked on stuff like that.

 
lmb1234:
FXCM does not trade against their clients. Their biggest pitch is that they're non-dealing desk. I think some of the research on DailyFX is pretty good but obviously some analysts are better than others. Depending on what position you work in, it's not a bad place to work.

lol.......some of the research on daily fx is pretty good? lol

ive been trading fx for 3 years now and ive experienced a lot of the good the bad and the ugly!

daily fx is run BY fxcm.....so ur saying that research provided by ur broker to clients DOESNT have a conflict of interest by way of profit? then ur obviously not familiar with retail fx brokerages..........fxcm is a bucket, i used to trade with them before I wised up and went to dukascopy....a bunch of bad slippage, disappearing orders, orders not triggerd that were hit, SLs triggered that were not hit, requotes, execution delays....gimme a break thats just one of the ways they make money against clients

 

I have never had an issue with FXCM. I have used the platform for 10 months now live and I have had no issues. The one day the server was down and it crashed they offered to close any order at any price that was reached throughout the day (I think it was a Friday last year).

Anyone making trading decisions based on DailyFX deserves to get fucked.

Depending on the type of trader someone is, paying a 1.5 pip spread on a EURUSD or GBPUSD lot is nothing. At the institutional level this may be different, but I can't speak to that.

 

Retail FX brokers (who are also acting as market makers for their retail clients essentially) are known artificially increase the spreads and while they are 'taking the other side' they are doing it so in a way that includes manipulating the prices quoted (which is what has been alluded to by other posters) and even manipulate the market data provided to customers over their platforms. They are not simply 'collecting the spread' and I asked FXTrader what the spreads were because they are non-existent in spot FX. By non-existent, I mean non-existent. It doesn't take a genius to see that when the market is trading nearly 0 spread and then brokers have 5 pip wide spreads on their platforms that there is some bullshit going on. I don't know of a single market maker in spot FX that is making money off of spreads unless you're talking about interbank FX trading that isn't even done on exchanges and not at all topical to this discussion.

The fact is that regardless of how smart FXtrader or how good his firm or desk may be, he is speaking out of his ass on the topic because it is about shady RETAIL FX firms that take advantage of people that don't know any better and inflate spreads, manipulate the prices quoted, and more.

 
Jerome Marrow:
Retail FX brokers (who are also acting as market makers for their retail clients essentially) are known artificially increase the spreads and while they are 'taking the other side' they are doing it so in a way that includes manipulating the prices quoted (which is what has been alluded to by other posters) and even manipulate the market data provided to customers over their platforms. They are not simply 'collecting the spread' and I asked FXTrader what the spreads were because they are non-existent in spot FX. By non-existent, I mean non-existent. It doesn't take a genius to see that when the market is trading nearly 0 spread and then brokers have 5 pip wide spreads on their platforms that there is some bullshit going on. I don't know of a single market maker in spot FX that is making money off of spreads unless you're talking about interbank FX trading that isn't even done on exchanges and not at all topical to this discussion.

The fact is that regardless of how smart FXtrader or how good his firm or desk may be, he is speaking out of his ass on the topic because it is about shady RETAIL FX firms that take advantage of people that don't know any better and inflate spreads, manipulate the prices quoted, and more.

Seriously, what's with you.

Why would i charge some mom n' pop retail fx client who's only giving me $10,000 notional, less than 1 bp.

at the standard 2 bps, I only get $2. They should be happy.

If a client who means business is giving me $10,000,000 notional. Then yes I'll give him 1/10 of a bp (20 times cheaper than the retail guy), because even then I collect $100.

If you're that upset about spreads, the real scam is your run of the mill currency exchange place at the local shopping mall who will quote you 1.2200/1.2400 for EURUSD. while your retail broker quotes you a very reasonable: 1.2301/1.2303.

Spreads aren't the scam in retail FX, they really aren't.

Jerome, are you really arguing that retail FX player in Kansas should get the same spread as a hedge fund guy trading with a Bulge Bracket desk?

If you are, then that`s where the disconnect is. That's misguided logic

 
creditderivatives:
Seriously, what's with you.

Why would i charge some mom n' pop retail fx client who's only giving me $10,000 notional, less than 1 bp.

at the standard 2 bps, I only get $2. They should be happy.

Standard? Go look at some of the retail FX. It is usually much more and even then that is if you presume no slippage, which is common in the retail FX market--whether malicious or just from poor operating structure.
If a client who means business is giving me $10,000,000 notional. Then yes I'll give him 1/10 of a bp (20 times cheaper than the retail guy), because even then I collect $100.

If you're that upset about spreads, the real scam is your run of the mill currency exchange place at the local shopping mall who will quote you 1.2200/1.2400 for EURUSD. while your retail broker quotes you a very reasonable: 1.2301/1.2303.

Most retail FX is not giving you 2pip wide spreads. Go read around a bit. It goes without saying that the slippage generally doubles or triples whatever the quoted spread is anyway.
Spreads aren't the scam in retail FX, they really aren't.

Jerome, are you really arguing that retail FX player in Kansas should get the same spread as a hedge fund guy trading with a Bulge Bracket desk?

If you are, then that`s where the disconnect is. That's misguided logic

That is not at all what I am arguing. Look--spot FX essentially has no spread. Interbank and institutional investors pay a small spread so they can get liquidity in very large orders and it makes sense for retail customers to pay spreads to get liquidity even though they have [relatively] tiny orders. My beef is the fact that these spreads are generally not even pretending to be 2pips and even those that do provide a virtual 2pip spread (which is like 4x the spread that is trading otherwise, so not a small amount), they are generally having forms of what could be consider malicious slippage that creates a realized spread much closer to 6 or more pips. It isn't an earth shattering concept and it takes a 5 second google search to find hordes of reports from people experiencing this with probably 95% of the spot FX retail providers.

Those currency exchanges are bullshit, no doubt, but that isn't what the thread is about. If FXTrader feels the need to go off when somebody voices a real concern, then he should at least have an idea of what is actually going on with these firms and their clients. There is a reason the majority of these 'firms' aren't registered or sanctioned by many governing bodies and many tend to be located in other countries. What is going on isn't rocket science.

 
Jerome Marrow:
It doesn't take a genius to see that when the market is trading nearly 0 spread and then brokers have 5 pip wide spreads on their platforms that there is some bullshit going on.

This is not bullshit, CreditDerivatives explained above why this makes perfect sense.

Jerome Marrow:
I don't know of a single market maker in spot FX that is making money off of spreads

This is how the legit ones make money. They charge 2-3 pips to their retail clients and hedge in the interbank market at a spread that is less than they charged. This is how every desk (big and small) makes money, from FX exotics, to interest rate swaps, to equity index options.

Jerome Marrow:
The fact is that regardless of how smart FXtrader or how good his firm or desk may be, he is speaking out of his ass on the topic because it is about shady RETAIL FX firms that take advantage of people that don't know any better and inflate spreads, manipulate the prices quoted, and more.

Inflated spreads are how the business works. Even hedge funds get charged inflated spreads, otherwise BB trading desks would not be profitable. You pay for the level of liquidity and access you're getting.

and you were the one talking out of your ass because you attacked him on an issue that he wasn't even addressing. No one gave a shit about the spread, he was responding to the post about "TRADING AGAINST CLIENTS" (you know the 3rd on this thread left by Spectro).

Everyone is in agreement here except for you, spreads are not the scam in retail FX, the same principle applies to the most sophisticated hedge funds when they engage in trades with the BB trading desks. You pay for liquidity and for access. If you give me low volume, I'll charge a higher spread, you give me MORE volume, I'll bring down the transaction costs.

Welcome to the capital markets

 

I'm going to say this one more time for this angry moron:

1) From a client perspective "DB FX Spot Desk" is no different from FXCM in the sense that the dealer is probably trading against you. If this "irks" you, then find something else to do because that's how the business is run.

2) Spreads in retail FX are 1.5-2 bps on average. That is extremely reasonable for some guy punting around EURUSD delta 1. on his 10k account with 100:1 leverage. It really is. That is 10 times larger than institutional traders get but it only makes sense since inst. volume is far greater. It doesn't make it a scam, in the business, the more volume bring the lower the % commission. That is standard practice.

Most people who play retail FX lose because they dont know what they're doing and they're overleveraged. Not because they got charged 2 pips on a 1 lot trade. So again, the size of the spread is a non-issue.

 

I've been just watching this thread mostly, but figured I'd pipe in. I agree with both creditderivatives and FXTrader here, from experience with both institutional and retail trading. I really don't agree with a majority of your points Jerome, particularly because with all the leverage out there, FX trading is probably the cheapest market to trade in for retail customers.

Jack: They’re all former investment bankers who were laid off from that economic crisis that Nancy Pelosi caused. They have zero real world skills, but God they work hard. -30 Rock
 
Revsly:
I've been just watching this thread mostly, but figured I'd pipe in. I agree with both creditderivatives and FXTrader here, from experience with both institutional and retail trading. I really don't agree with a majority of your points Jerome, particularly because with all the leverage out there, FX trading is probably the cheapest market to trade in for retail customers.

lol, Jerome I think you lost this one when the Credit Suisse, Morgan Stanley and Deutsche Bank traders are all in agreement and opposition to you. Give it up.

 
CanadianTrader:
Revsly:
I've been just watching this thread mostly, but figured I'd pipe in. I agree with both creditderivatives and FXTrader here, from experience with both institutional and retail trading. I really don't agree with a majority of your points Jerome, particularly because with all the leverage out there, FX trading is probably the cheapest market to trade in for retail customers.

lol, Jerome I think you lost this one when the Credit Suisse, Morgan Stanley and Deutsche Bank traders are all in agreement and opposition to you. Give it up.

In agreement that the absurd spreads (well over 4x the spread trading in the market) is acceptable and that the slippage that generates these even bigger realized spreads is to be expected? Sorry, but the fact that someone sits on an exotic derivatives desk and doesn't even know the spreads on the spot doesn't exactly give somebody much clout. I'm for logical arguments and I haven't heard many to explain the huge spreads observed. 2 pips, fine, but that isn't what is going on in the retail place.

 
Revsly:
I've been just watching this thread mostly, but figured I'd pipe in. I agree with both creditderivatives and FXTrader here, from experience with both institutional and retail trading. I really don't agree with a majority of your points Jerome, particularly because with all the leverage out there, FX trading is probably the cheapest market to trade in for retail customers.

How does the fact that retail customers are offered leverage justify exorbitant spreads (whether quoted or through artificial slippage)? I am genuinely curious.

 

I'll be honest, maybe its time for you to get a new broker, because I've used several retail and have not had these problems.

Jack: They’re all former investment bankers who were laid off from that economic crisis that Nancy Pelosi caused. They have zero real world skills, but God they work hard. -30 Rock
 

Jerome, you really don't what the hell you're talking about. I used to work for FXCM and I know exactly how the company functions. There are no "shady slippage" situations meant to profit off of clients. Yes, the system craps out at times, particularly with MT4 automated trading, but errors with a machine are to be expected, especially when trading volume is so high. Every time errors do occur, clients can send a report to our team, and we analyze it to figure out whether it was the system's fault or the trader's for not putting proper stops and limits. I personally spent countless hours auditing these complaints, and we've been fairly generous on compensating clients when they were in the right.

If you can't trade, go open a demo account and practice some more. Don't blame the system if the problem is with your own lack of skill.

 
accountspayable:
Jerome, you really don't what the hell you're talking about. I used to work for FXCM and I know exactly how the company functions. There are no "shady slippage" situations meant to profit off of clients. Yes, the system craps out at times, particularly with MT4 automated trading, but errors with a machine are to be expected, especially when trading volume is so high. Every time errors do occur, clients can send a report to our team, and we analyze it to figure out whether it was the system's fault or the trader's for not putting proper stops and limits. I personally spent countless hours auditing these complaints, and we've been fairly generous on compensating clients when they were in the right.

If you can't trade, go open a demo account and practice some more. Don't blame the system if the problem is with your own lack of skill.

I said, " I don't know about FXCM ..." in my very first post after mention of some shit retail FX places from other posters. Read.

 
accountspayable:
Jerome, you really don't what the hell you're talking about. I used to work for FXCM and I know exactly how the company functions. There are no "shady slippage" situations meant to profit off of clients. Yes, the system craps out at times, particularly with MT4 automated trading, but errors with a machine are to be expected, especially when trading volume is so high. Every time errors do occur, clients can send a report to our team, and we analyze it to figure out whether it was the system's fault or the trader's for not putting proper stops and limits. I personally spent countless hours auditing these complaints, and we've been fairly generous on compensating clients when they were in the right.

If you can't trade, go open a demo account and practice some more. Don't blame the system if the problem is with your own lack of skill.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii38/qtmspin/metaQuotesVirtualDealer…

GIVE ME A BREAK PAL.......WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU KIDDING?! you either a) were to stupid to know this goes on at your own firm, or b) know that it goes on, swallow ur pride and keep fucking clients over......

boston tech makes fxcms platform software along w/ metaquotes....this plugin IS what dealers use against retail clients.............fuckin idiot

 
mfoste1:
accountspayable:
Jerome, you really don't what the hell you're talking about. I used to work for FXCM and I know exactly how the company functions. There are no "shady slippage" situations meant to profit off of clients. Yes, the system craps out at times, particularly with MT4 automated trading, but errors with a machine are to be expected, especially when trading volume is so high. Every time errors do occur, clients can send a report to our team, and we analyze it to figure out whether it was the system's fault or the trader's for not putting proper stops and limits. I personally spent countless hours auditing these complaints, and we've been fairly generous on compensating clients when they were in the right.

If you can't trade, go open a demo account and practice some more. Don't blame the system if the problem is with your own lack of skill.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii38/qtmspin/metaQuotesVirtualDealer…

GIVE ME A BREAK PAL.......WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU KIDDING?! you either a) were to stupid to know this goes on at your own firm, or b) know that it goes on, swallow ur pride and keep fucking clients over......

boston tech makes fxcms platform software along w/ metaquotes....this plugin IS what dealers use against retail clients.............fuckin idiot

Oh real cute, kid. Because showing me a picture of a poorly edited screenshot really goes a long way to prove your point. Do you honestly think that there is a program that intentionally screws with client trading that is made into a simple to use java applet? If there was true manipulation, it would be extremely subtly embedded into the code of the trading platform. Not as an easy to use software so the trading desk can freeze a trade and laugh at the p/l go negative. Furthermore, if it were that obvious, do you really think that the SEC and the NFA would just sit around and not do anything about it.

Grow a fucking brain. And the next time you want to post false evidence, at least try to make it seem somewhat plausible. For your sake, really.

 
It doesn't take a genius to see that when the market is trading nearly 0 spread and then brokers have 5 pip wide spreads on their platforms that there is some bullshit going on. I don't know of a single market maker in spot FX that is making money off of spreads unless you're talking about interbank FX trading that isn't even done on exchanges and not at all topical to this discussion.
I am against the bucket retail FX places that make up the majority of the retail market and screw over people that are new or less sophisticated.

You may not have directly stated "FXCM", but you clearly are indirectly lumping it together with other firms considering how FXCM is one of the largest retail forex trading companies in the world. The point is, FX companies have to have spreads, otherwise how will they make money? The act as middlemen between the trader and the market. If you are a big enough bank with enough clout to trade directly in forex space, then yes you wont have much of a spread at all.

 

no need to be hostile here, guys... take those egos back a little bit (both creditderivatives and jerome marrow)

i think there was a misunderstanding here. when jerome talked about betting against clients, he probably doesn't mean taking-the-other-side-of-trade/market-making (i am sure he is smart enough to know what market making is). instead, he was more talking about slippage and quoting client a tighter market than realized. maybe Jerome chose the wrong word here...instead of "bet against their clients", maybe he meant "scam their clients/lie to their clients".

then a lot of people jumped on the gun and accused Jerome of not knowing what market making is/business model of broker dealers...

i know nothing about fx brokers, just trying to bring some piece to this forum. both sides should probably apologize.....no need to bring out hurtful words like that...and creditderivatives you are representing morgan stanley here! :)

 
untilted:
both sides should probably apologize.....no need to bring out hurtful words like that...and creditderivatives you are representing morgan stanley here! :)

lol! which is why i get agitated when i see ignorance being spread by an emboldened .....guy.

his argument about slippage wasn`t our real concern, we told him find a real broker like most people do and everything will be fine.

the problem was, it`s the fact that he cant seem to wrap his little head around the concept that retail clients pay more in spreads than institutional clients because, it would be a losing proposition to offer such lucrative spreads to a client that could bring you one trade worth $0.20 a week. He wants uncle jim to be swapping FX volume at the same price as Paulson. It's illogical. Not to mention he supposedly works on a "trading desk" and cant comprehend simple market realities?

In any event, the point was made. He can refuse to accept it if he wishes, but he'll just continue to look stupid on these forums.

Peace offering accepted, but the ignorance must stop.

CD~ MS EQD (where we aren't afraid to charge clients who give us low volume, more in spreads than we charge our frequent guys... ) go ahead... call Morgan Stanley market makers a bunch of scammers now....

 
creditderivatives:
the problem was, it`s the fact that he cant seem to wrap his little head around the concept that retail clients pay more in spreads than institutional clients because, it would be a losing proposition to offer such lucrative spreads to a client that could bring you one trade worth $0.20 a week. He wants uncle jim to be swapping FX volume at the same price as Paulson. It's illogical. Not to mention he supposedly works on a "trading desk" and cant comprehend simple market realities?
Now you went from just being argumentative to being a fucking idiot. At no point did I ever say that or even indicate that that was my belief and in fact stated the contrary multiple times. Seriously, you and the other dipshits keep trying to emphasize this and at no point did I EVER say this and, in fact, stated the contrary. When you guys realized that you went overboard, you tried to hammer this and it wasn't ever my argument. My whole point was excessive spreads, most of which are only realized through slippage and not through quotes, are wrong and unethical (often illegal, but hard to prove and find). Go play in traffic for me as a favor for me once you can grasp this concept.

Also, FXCM has been sued by customers in the past for slippage and the very problems you are saying don't exist. The problem is so pervasive in the retail FX space that the SEC has released multiple reports about blatant fraud that is going on in the space that they are not able to stop. Instead of actually addressing these points (of which there are numerous to be found throughout various forums and other sources), you guys accuse me of getting taken by retail FX brokers.... I hope you can see the glaring logical flaws in the series of conclusions you made to get to that point. I don't even trade retail.

 

What am I supposed to respond with, CT? The topic is retail FX brokers and people keep claiming that I am against the exorbitant spreads because I was burned in retail FX trading (how you can come to that logical conclusion, I have no idea). Am I magically going to not talk about retail FX brokers when that is the topic of the thread. Seriously, you guys have your heads so far up your asses about defending anything associated with WS that you can't even realize when there is an aspect of the field that is filled with scammers. I already mentioned what I do.

Your lack of reading comprehension is stunning, but typical.

 
Jerome Marrow:
What am I supposed to respond with, CT? The topic is retail FX brokers and people keep claiming that I am against the exorbitant spreads because I was burned in retail FX trading (how you can come to that logical conclusion, I have no idea). Am I magically going to not talk about retail FX brokers when that is the topic of the thread. Seriously, you guys have your heads so far up your asses about defending anything associated with WS that you can't even realize when there is an aspect of the field that is filled with scammers. I already mentioned what I do.

Your lack of reading comprehension is stunning, but typical.

Yeah, our reading comprehension is atrocious... =\

How many times has it been said already.. YES..YES JEROME, there are scammers in retail FX. But its not hard to find one who is legitimate FXCM is not a scam shop. The scam shops are the ones who are so small and obscure that they can take your money, close the business and no regulator would ever have known they existed. FXCM is not one of those places.

That should answer the original poster's question.

Seriously though, what trading desk are you on? Maybe we can find some common ground.

 

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From 10 rejections to 1 dream investment banking internship

“... I believe it was the single biggest reason why I ended up with an offer...”