No Deal Experience - First year analyst
I'm a first year analyst at a BB. So far none of my deals have gone through. A few, very few, "live deals" have been live indefinitely and who knows if they are ever going to go anywhere. I'm afraid that when recruiting season comes along it will put me at a big disadvantage when it comes to PE. I know in this environment everyone is suffering, but there are still those that have done some deals and will have an upper hand.
I've been pretty good about utilizing my time. I've studied various versions of LBO and merger models done before and have a good understanding of the drivers behind them. I've also learned a lot from my pitches because most of the time we do build a full model and run numbers. How can I convey that I know what I'm doing without actual deal experience?
Thanks.
Nobody in your position has any significant deal experience, trust me. Even analysts recruiting last year were lacking in the deal department. It's all about the recommendation from your seniors at this point.
So if I start applying for HF/PE shops, the funds will contact my boss (MDs and/or VPs?) to ask about me? So I'm guessing there is no way to hide that you're interviewing . . .
ppl know that analysts are locked in for 2-3 years and only a handful stay til associate level.
assume 100 incoming analysts by the third year maybe 12 3rd years will be around to be promoted to associate.
Other than headhunters, PE/HF will contact people they know at IBs (through deals, grad school, acquaintances, etc.).
I've had opportunities forwarded to me from 1st/2nd year associates that they've received from their counterparts from grad school. MDs have recommended me to other firms when they find out that someone is looking, and I get contacted directly by an associate from the respective fund.
We're about to enter a Great Depression. Don't you want a president who's already dressed for it?
No Deal Experience for PE Recruiting (Originally Posted: 11/12/2015)
removed
I think generally your MDs will pass your resume out, and if they carry some weight, you can get interviews.
I'm not in banking yet, but at the boutique I'm going to, the MDs work with you if you're trying to go to a PE/HF shop, so it's not a big deal if you're interviewing.
I'm still a noob, but one of my friends at this boutique didn't have any crazy impressive deals on his resume, but I think his MDs (who are pretty well connected) were able to get him interviews at a good number of funds ($1-$4bn in range), so it seems like that recommendation can really pull some weight.
Also my bank has publicly disclosed job cuts recently which I think is going to have an even more negative impact on deal experience between now and recruiting season. Are PE firms understanding of this? Any advice is appreciated.
How come you get to work on an IPO when you are a top product group (M&A, LevFin)? Dual process? If it went the IPO route (hence the passive bookrunner role), tricky how to put your M&A or debt exp on resume.
That being said, it's fine to not have any deal exp at this point. Preliminary conversations with headhunters are meant for the two sides to connect and get to know each others. You can mention what you learn while working on that IPO project, esp the modelling skills and nuances.
Try to get into good projects in the next couple of weeks though, not end of the world if they are not announced yet.
If you don't have experience to speak to just don't meet with them yet. It's fine to not meet with them until December. They will 100% ask what you are working on, whether you hold the model, etc.
Our 1st years are already staffed up and a couple may actually close a deal before year end. You don't have to have closed deals but you need substantive experience. They will assume you aren't a top bucket kid in your group if you aren't already on real shit
Limited deal experience - what can I do about it? (Originally Posted: 02/17/2016)
Hi,
I'm currently an analyst 2 at one of the international, non-BB investment banks in a sector coverage team, however, have now reached a point where I have been working for 18 months and still not closed a single M&A deal.
Whilst longer term, this has me concerned in terms of career progression, a more immediate issue is that I find myself losing motivation at work because so much of time, I am working on mundane/low probability client service books and I feel I have more to offer than this.
I have worked on 1 “live” sell side advisory, however, our client did not ultimately submit even a first round bid (although all the work, including bid letter was done). Beyond that, my time has been spent on an equity raise (pulled due to market conditions) and some balance sheet investments, with the remainder on client pitches.
In the sector I cover, market conditions have been difficult for M&A over the past few years and my team has closed 1 M&A deal since I joined, so this isn’t a case of higher quality work being staffed elsewhere (in addition I have very strong visibility into my teams deal/pitch pipeline at any time).
If you were in my shoes what would you do? Currently I see 3 options:
Stick with it for the time being and hope activity picks up -Little conviction this will actually happen in the near term.
Try to lateral to another bank -I think the best option, but key challenge here is my lack of experience with transactions that have closed/entered advanced discussions impacting what I can put on my resume. Also, there is a broader lack of hiring in my sector group
Leave current role to rebrand with a masters in Finance (or some equivalent) and use the year out to re-enter formal analyst recruiting -Would mean starting again as analyst 1 (tbh not a big deal) -Would need to fund cost of the masters (reason I didn't do a masters in the first place out of undergrad and took the job) -Downside risk - may not find a new role in the year and be royally f*****
Naturally option 1/2 are preferable to 3.
Does anyone have any advice? Has anyone been in this situation and if so, what did you do about it?
TL;DR: A2 in a team with slow deal flow, limited live deal exposure - what are my options to do something about this?
JM2C I would keep my head up and work hard but network for a lateral into a stronger bank.
Thanks, that's broadly been my approach so far.
One question when it comes to my resume for recruiting, can I still mention the 1 M&A deal I worked on? Something like "advised x on a potential $xxxm bid for y (withdrawn)" and list out what I did (eg held the pen on the model, discussion materials, lead an initial dd session etc.). How much detail is appropriate here?
No Deal Experience - Convey that I know what I'm doing (Originally Posted: 12/24/2008)
I'm a first year analyst at a BB. So far none of my deals have gone through. A few, very few, "live deals" have been live indefinitely and who knows if they are ever going to go anywhere. I'm afraid that when recruiting season comes along it will put me at a big disadvantage when it comes to PE. I know in this environment everyone is suffering, but there are still those that have done some deals and will have an upper hand.
I've been pretty good about utilizing my time. I've studied various versions of LBO and merger models done before and have a good understanding of the drivers behind them. I've also learned a lot from my pitches because most of the time we do build a full model and run numbers. How can I convey that I know what I'm doing without actual deal experience?
Thanks.
i think a lot of people are in your positions. I've heard of someone being in their second year now and still without a live deal experience. I'm no expert, but I think employers, as well as Bschools will be much more lenient when evaluating employees that were in M&A during these times.
Getting relevant deal experience before PE recruiting (Originally Posted: 09/29/2013)
It's been 2 months on the job and I have had nothing but financing deals. The other analysts in my group are all on live M&A deals. I am concerned that I will not get enough relevant deal experience before PE recruiting kicks off next year around Jan/Feb(talking to HHs) and March/April (start of interviews). Should I talk to my staffer and subtlely push for more M&A deals/pitches?
Correct. If you aren't getting the deal experience you need (after a reasonable amount of time) you should ask the staffer to consider you for those deals.
Thanks for your response. I want to be more aggressive, but I don't want to come off as too pushy or someone who has his mind set on PE (might be checked out after getting a PE offer, leave after one year, or not put effort into non-relevant deals). How should I approach the conversation?
You should reach out to staffer as CompBanker said or if you're at a smaller shop to senior bankers saying that you'd like some deal experience.
deal experience is overrated, know people who got megafund and upper MM offers without any "deals" on their resume, but they were able to talk about their pitches and failed processes very well. that's why Blackstone m&a does so well in recruiting even though they don't do a ton of big deals that analysts at the BBs would see. HHs and firms know that its often luck of the draw who gets on deals and who gets on pitches. just spin your M&A pitches well and enjoy the lifestyle while you can. if you really think you're really not getting substantive experience, talk to the other analysts and get their thoughts on whether your group is supportive of asking staffers for deals
Lack of Deal Experience Normal During Down Market? (Originally Posted: 12/22/2011)
I started work at a top investment bank in China in July and so far, I've only been staffed on one live transaction that died a week ago. Other than that, I've been working on all kinds of random pitches and administrative mumbo jumbo. My question (especially to you folks in HK bulge brackets): is it normal in a down market not to have good experience working on live transactions? How's everybody else doing at other banks?
I spoke to my staffer and he said that we over-hired this year and there just aren't any deals at the moment he can put me on, and there are no new deals happening just yet.
Any suggestions? Originally I was keen on moving to a PE fund in a few years but if I'm not getting any deal experience, I don't think i'll be able to move anywhere.
Thanks!
well, its normal but just look at the Asia bloomberg league tables and you will see that there are M&A deals happening even in this market.. though things have considerably slowed down, i would think that juniors at BBs have a couple of live stuff going on.. it also depends which sector / product team you are in..
are you a native from there or a transplant from the West?
This is just the beginning.
I'd start with this to get a clear understanding of what your up against: http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2011/12/14/795281/as-chinese-apartments…
Our secondary firm has received a growing number of requests from foreign and domestic Chinese sellers looking to exit. Problem is, very few buyers and we don't buy shit. We, along with a majority of other Asian PE firms, expect China to slip into recession.
My advice, find a nice corporate job and hold on.
Granted i'm not in the far east, but feeling the same way at my firm.
How important is deal experience for PE recruiting? (Originally Posted: 02/08/2012)
I know it's definitely a huge factor, but if I don't get very much deal experience next year when I start at a regional BB, will I not have much of a shot at getting PE offers?
On paper I will look solid (on track to graduate with a 3.9, summa cum laude from HYPS, solid regional BB), and I'm confident on my interviewing skills (both behavioral and LBO modeling/technical), but I'm worried about how much deal experience I will be getting since 1) it's a regional office, and 2) it's really not in my control what deals I'm placed on.
Thanks for any input.
Depends on you. Sure, you might not be the "go to" analyst on some files, but keep up to speed on EVERYTHING. Read through every presentation (best way is to keep up to date on each draft as its being created), understand the model (sure you didn't build it, but know it inside out), and make sure you can talk to each deal.
I had a friend who worked at a regional BB. Had some stellar experience on his resume (multiple multi-bil LBOs, M&A, sales, etc...).But in all honesty, he wasn't the main analyst on the files, just a regional resource used as a backup for the bitch work. However, he knew everything on his resume cold. He landed a sick gig that even analysts coming out of top NY groups were not able to get.
It's how you spin your story and whether you know your stuff that will determine your chances of landing an offer.
This is not always the case, but I find that regional offices tend to be more involved with client coverage and pitches. Use this to your advantage to say you got to work directly with management on strategy/issues, building soft skills instead of being an excel monkey all the time.
ihatebanking is rite tho, once you do get deal exposure, follow all the docs and emails and know it inside out.
I'll echo the above, deal experience helps but it is your ability to convey understanding of the deal process and deal intricacies that will make/break your ability to land a good gig. Be sure to stay in the good graces of the senior bankers and learn as much as you can. PE firms definitely take into consideration your school / GPA, so you'll be in a decent position come recruiting.
No Deal Experience from IB Internship (Originally Posted: 01/09/2012)
Background: I interned at a BB Investment Bank through a Sophomore Program this past summer; however, I was treated exactly like a junior intern in terms of workload, etc, so I the sophomore aspect doesn't really matter all that much.
Problem: Over the 10 week period of the internship, I feel like I did not get any good transaction / deal experience; specifically, I had a client with whom we were continually working to determine various solutions to the financial issues it was facing (which involved some debt recap modeling and basic valuation of subsidiary companies, etc). However, there was never actually a "deal" associated with this work. Other than this one client, I feel like I spent 100 hours a week churning out pitch books and industry research (although some pitches again involved preliminary business combination models, etc). I am trying to land an internship in PE this next summer, and I am afraid of going into the interview and not knowing how to explain my past experiences if they start asking about deals, etc. Do I just say "unfortunately, over the brief weeks in the group, I was not exposed to a great deal of deal / transaction experience, but I still feel I gained a large amount of valuable skills from the modeling work I was exposed to through my work with a long-standing client. [Elaborate on skills, etc]."
I feel I have a lot of good things to talk about in terms of work ethic, attention to detail, etc. that I sharpened during my 10 weeks there (during my performance review, they said I far outperformed the junior interns in my group, and I also had a "stress test" situation in which I basically lived in the office one weekend to finish something for the team when a bunch of unexpected crises caused the analysts to disappear). I'm just afraid of sounding like I did nothing but turn edits for pitches all day (which was basically what I did).
Sorry for being wordy.
I like your answer. It's sincere and still let's you talk about your skills. I'd go with it.
What you just described can be months of your life as a full time analyst.
Tell them that you were involved in a financial or strategic advisory assignment.
I think what you just described to us above could be worked on and developed into a story during interviews. You want to focus on the good aspect, leave out the negatives and be sincere. Thats the best way for you.
How do PE firms evaluate deal experience (Originally Posted: 02/15/2010)
This summer I'm starting at a middle market bank and I was wondering how deal flow is evaluated by PE firms.
Should I be focusing on number of deals? Size of deals (and if so, how large must the deal be for me to be noticed)??
I would think how much I learn as an analyst is very important but I'm not sure how that is traditionally conveyed through a resume, when every resume that gets sent to a PE firm (I presume) has banking experience.
Thanks
I have two additional questions that seem like a "fit" for this post, as opposed to creating a new topic.
(1) What do PE firms think of private placements in terms of deal experience? I know it's not M&A, but I'm going through the process for two PPs right now (one preferred equity, one convertible debt) and the process is nearly identical to the sell-side M&A process. Initial diligence is essentially the same, the drafting of the teaser/IM is the exact same, you contact buyers as you would in a sell-side (different buyers -- instead of PE firms and strategics, we're contacting late-stage VC firms, but the same idea), and the "track" is nearly identical to the sell-side process. As I mentioned, it's not sell-side M&A, but I feel like I've gotten much better experience on these PPs thus far than I did in the two buy-side advisory deals I've worked on (one closed and was successful, the other did not make it past the initial bid).
(2) Any good PE reading? For banking, there were a handful of books that were recommended to get a feel for the industry -- what about the buyside? I've been looking for some good books, but haven't found anything that seems like it would be informative and interesting.
Thanks guys, and TeamLRAM, hope this isn't taking over your post -- I think my questions complement yours. If you'd like me to create a separate topic, I'd be glad to.
Oh, and since I'm basically a year ahead of you (1st year at a MM-firm that provides full IB services -- equity, M&A, private placements, etc.), I have asked similar questions, and I think the response(s) you're going to get will be the experience is much more important than deal size. So, generally speaking, the more deal experience, the better. Size won't really matter (unless you want to try to go megafund). Of course, all else being equal, having a huge deal on the resume is definitely a nice touch.
Not at all jimbrowngou. I'm interested in the answers to those questions too
Bump.
TeamLRAM,
The number one thing PE firms look for is quality of experience. After that it is the number of experiences. The only ones who care about "Size" are the Megafunds, and I would guess that they care more about quality than size as well. As a result, differentiating yourself from others will likely not occur on your resume. That's why it is so important to get introductions through senior professionals or have an inside connection. If you don't, you're going to get evaluated on other factors on your resume such as group (M&A vs. TMT vs. ???), undergrad, gpa, etc.
JimbrowngoU,
(1) Pipes don't count for much, sorry. You'll have to sell your experience hard in terms of client interaction, responsibility, and how it positions you for PE.
(2) I'm not aware of any PE books.
Thanks for the response.
While I agree that PIPEs are useless (pretty much entirely paperwork and internal documents, at least from the IBD perspective -- ECM has some involvement), I'd say private equity/debt placements are pretty relevant. Right now, I'm going through a private placement of convertibles preferreds and a sellside M&A process -- both are basically at the same point in the deal, and so far, the process has been identical. Diligence has been the same, marketing materials are basically the same (teaser, IM), client interaction is the same (essentially spending time with the CFO on a daily basis to put together a marketable model), etc. -- only real difference is valuation approach. I would never go into a PE interview with the intent of placing emphasis on private placement experience, but I was wondering if it's something to include on the resume since the process mirrors that of a sellside.
PE Books: there's the GloCap PE Career Guide
http://www.amazon.com/Getting-Job-Private-Equity-Insight/dp/0470292628/…
Full-Time Recruiting from IBD Internship;No Transactions, Only Pitches (Originally Posted: 07/23/2013)
I'm currently interning at a smaller investment bank with a small US platform and although I feel like I've learned quite a bit, all I've been able to work on so far are a few pitches. How do I position this in my resume and in an interview for full-time recruiting this coming Fall? Relevant pitchbook work section or sub-bullet? Thanks!
You "only" got to work on a couple of pitches. I think that this is pretty strong. Just spin it well and this will be a strong part of your resume!
Deal or No Deal - Any insight from current SAs (Originally Posted: 07/11/2012)
Any SAs out there that haven't gotten thrown any deal action yet? I know SAs do the whole researching, pitch books, database updates, and whatnot, but is it normal to be 1 month in and still assigned researching and updating rather than getting to work on the live deal(s) that are going on?
Note: This is my first SA gig and I'm at a smaller firm so I'm not sure what to fully expect.
Any insight from current SAs or seasoned vets is appreciated!
I'm in a small shop myself as a rising junior, but I have been invited to client meetings and work on models and presentations pertaining to live deals...along with the daily role of research, database updates, etc.
It's all about initiative. Ask if you can be included in any live deal activity; sitting in on conference calls, attending meetings, modeling, etc.
its pretty normal. I basically carried bags and served coffee my first internship.
I did a bit of research and modeling but not much. This was at a very good PE fund with tons of deal flow.
Working on deals is something you have to earn when you actually know what you are doing. Next year when my firm called me back, i was able to develop my own thesis on an investment after I impressed them with how much i learned.
Depends. I was with a MM at the time. Had some great deal flow as well as a small team environment.
I recommend you do a crap ton of research and try to jump on any assignments concerning diligence for the clients your firm is working for. They love initiative. Get out of the cubicle and into the corner office!
Seems to be normal in this market. I've had some deal exposure, but unfortunately it's the luck of the draw as to whether the deal is active enough to provide you with any meaningful work. I've definitely done a lot of research, pitches, and comps this summer.
^^^
yea that guy has a good point. Deals are down right now. IPO and M&A activity are sucking at the moment. Private placements might be doing alright though.. dunno you probably should check the numbers.
How to get deal experience? (Originally Posted: 11/25/2009)
I will start off with the fact that I do not have investment banking experience. I am in corporate trust, modeling mbs deals. Nothing too complex, but just giving you an idea of my experience. Also, I am not trying to break into a BB firm. Rather, I am trying to get a job at a boutique M&A advisory firm in a small midwest city. So what is the best way to get "deal" experience? I have some contacts at a few M&A advisory firms. Should I just do as many case studies as possible and know LBO/FCFE/Valuation Modeling down pat? Thanks in advance.
Wait for it...the only way to get relevant deal experience is to work on deals.You can do as many case studies as you want but the real world is entirely different. You will learn everything you need to know on the job and during training. With that said, ask your M&A contacts out for lunch or for interviews. best of luck
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