Full disclosure: I've already taken the GMAT and gotten into an MBA program.
According to GMAC, the percentage of African-Americans who score over 700, out of roughly 10,000 AA test takers a year, is less than 2% (a little under 200 people nationwide!). So scoring a 690 for example, would put you smack in the top 2% of all AA test takers, which goes a long way to explain some of the "lower standards" accusations you read about so often in Admissions debates.
I'm AA and scored a 700 after 8 months prep and 2 attempts. Though it was "good enough", I've never personally been satisfied with this score, and it's been nagging me quite a bit, especially going into fall recruiting. So I set out to improve upon it during my free time this summer (and possibly improve my quant skills as a consequence). I've always argued that a lack of access to prep (poverty, badly run schools) was the biggest reason for minority scoring disparities, so this is sort of an experiment as well. Could I get myself to a 750+ with reasonable effort?
A couple of things for which I need to control: My first practice exam score was a 520, so diminishing returns have likely set in. I'm also not traditionally "smart"; I've never taken an IQ test but I don't imagine I'd score off the charts. I've always been a "B" student, 1250 SAT (on the 1600 scale), and I also don't have much of a quantitative background as I avoided math like the plague in college (was never "good" at it).
As it stands I've yet to score over 44 in the Quant section on any attempt (which doesn't even get you to 70th percentile these days!). My verbal has also plateaued around 42-43 and I cannot seem to score higher than a 710-720 (unless I see repeat questions) on any practice exam. I've got my last attempt before school scheduled in 3 weeks and this is starting to become worrisome. How is it that I can review a concept 5 times and still get it wrong??
So I'm left to wonder: Are standardized tests IQ tests? Is there a natural GMAT ceiling for certain people? Can an average guy break through a 750 or is there some higher level of intelligence required past 700? Can one's quantitative background improve considerably if they're a late starter? (I'm 30+), can you simply prep and practice your way to a top score? How is it some of us are just "good at taking tests?" Would love to have that skill, lol
One thing's for certain...when I have kids, I'm sending them to one of those Korean schools in Queens that train kids to be machine-like test taking maniacs, and starting them young at that.
Interested in getting your perspectives, as I know WSO is littered with 98th percentile scorers...
Firstly, those of us who score high on the GMAT generally aren't just the Joe Schmoe's from the neighborhood. We don't just walk into high score territory. We put in more concentrated prep. time than the average GMAT-taker. That's why we score high. The average test-taker (black, white or other) is perfectly fine with going to No Name University in Nowhereville and just takes the GMAT because it's a requirement. They don't care about their score because they don't need a high one to get in.
Secondly, if you've already gotten into the school of your choice, then why would you be idiotic enough to consider taking it again?...for "brownie" points? Once you've gotten into the school, most people won't give a fxck about your score; they'll care about what you've done since then. Why not focus on actually preparing for fall recruiting? Do you think that the recruiters are just going to line up in front of you because of your big, shiny 750 on the GMAT? lol...
It's not worth taking the GMAT again if you scored a 700 and have been accepted into an MBA program. Move on and focus on preparing for interviews.
You can be less capable to score above 700 because of your academic background, and the majority of people who have a weaker academic background are minorities. It does not necessarily mean "AAs" do worse on the test because they are "AA". You have no barriers anymore than anyone else to score 700+, 750+ etc. not sure what that had to do with it at all.
As I mentioned before a side benefit is that preparing for it has improved my quant skills. In fact I've been tutoring some of my younger cousins in algebra and geometry, and considering how far from these topics I steered when I was in school, it's kind of empowering. That said, the real impetus has been some of the conversations I've had about admissions standards for URM...you'd be surprised at how insulting some people's ideas are on this issue.
I'm also curious about standardized exams in general and what they represent in terms of race relations and attitudes. I've read numerous studies on the topic but don't know whether anyone has ever deliberately set out to prove/disprove theories/opinion on the subject. If I were to achieve my goal, long term I think I would focus my efforts on improving standardized testing performances in minority communities. It probably requires a large ego to think this kind of thing so I'll add the caveat that it's just something I'd consider as education in distressed areas has long been one of my favorite philanthropies, given my own lack of resources growing up.
In terms of professional goals, I already know I can close during an interview. However, so can damn near everyone else at this level. I've never been in such a uber-competitive environment before and given my non-target background...anything that helps me stand out in application piles is a plus as far as I'm concerned.
@Yeahright....I just assumed educational background correlated to class/race/etc. I didn't mean that race itself was the determining factor...but I do agree...if you have not spent as much time learning as someone else, they're likely to perform better. I just wonder whether the gap can be closed through effort and repetition, or whether there's a certain critical window that closes, permanently capping you at a given ceiling. We always get these pep talks about self actualization and human potential, etc...but I want to see it quantified somehow. Again, just a pet project-If I don't hit 750 I'm not going to consider myself a failure or anything, lol
You should not let a score define your intelligence or how smart you are. There are more important things for you that you should be worried about right now. Given that you've already gotten into a school you should 1) go travel 2) or if you're the type that just can't sit still, start prepping for recruiting.
Now if you're doing this to prove that you're in the top 2% of the smartest black people in the U.S., then by all means go for it. This seems like a very prideful and somewhat chip-on-the-shoulder thing to me. It's almost like when I heard a friend said he didn't want to apply through consortium because he didn't want to take advantage of it.
TL;DR Spend your time doing something else
@West Coast Analyst...
I know how your friend feels. NO minority out there wants to be perceived as that "Affirmative Action" guy or that "Diversity Candidate" guy. I know it seems prideful, but those terms imply, however wrongly or accurately, that we're not quite as good/qualified/competent as everyone else who 'earned' their way in and are just a quota plucked from a pool of lower stats. Not parroting this view just pointing out why it would lead people to think as your friend does. Of course I know on a practical level that what you do with your opportunity is what matters, but the imagery/optics can be off putting.
I'm with this guy; standardized test taking "skill" is kinda useless, and you shouldn't spend any more time developing your GMAT aptitude. However, the idea of straight-up leveling the test-score playing field between all demographics is an interesting thought, and can probably lead to other meaningful insight.
That being said, I'm curious what topics are troubling you; PM me if you're interested in getting a second pair of eyes to take a look.
I'm no expert on standardized or IQ tests, but to juxtapose IQ and tests such as the LSAT, SAT, GMAT, etc. I think is foolhardy; using myself as an example taking the GMAT w/o a serious study program and then following one diligently, propelled me from the 50th percentile to above the 90th percentile. Did I suddenly get smarter, did my IQ change dramatically over the fall and winter? I'd venture to say no.
Another note, scoring a 700 is an accomplishment, but keep in mind that business school's have always had difficulty attracting minorities, driven by what has been considered "their desire to enter law and medicine," so the results that you quoted aren't reflective of the entire AA population, just a sub-set of the test-takers (which I believe you know).
Good point. High achieving AAs tend to prefer careers/degrees with a specific professional bent: Lawyer, CPA, Doctor, Engineer, lol. It's a bit of a running joke among my West Indian friends that they'll only get degrees that give you a specific title. But even then, you'll see that there have been Affirmative Action court cases in places such as Michigan and California directly challenging some of the racial admissions preferences involving lower test scores-particularly in the case of the LSAT.
You can absolutely increase your GMAT score further through hard work and strong study habits. I went from a 580 on the diagnostic and 5 months later scored a 760 on the actual GMAT. I had to study every day for 1.5 to 2 hours a day during weekdays and 3-5 hours on weekends, but it can be done. Did you take a gmat prep class? I took manhattan gmat and thought the study schedule was really helpful for me. I had a private tutor for 5 sessions that really encouraged me to work hard and get my score up too. Have you done all the official guide (math and verbal books as well) problems several times over? Just keep grinding and you can do it!
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The logic of the op illustrates why he didn't do fantastic on gmat :/
OP, please don't tell me you got into a M7 program. Lol.
Tough room. Just an experiment, dudes, lol. Then again I noticed one of you gents pulled off a 780...so I understand it'd be hard to relate. Guess I'm the only one who finds some of those statistical disparities worth looking into instead of just taking them for granted. But happy to finally be pushing myself just the same, so whatever works, as they say.
@Masterg...that is an awesome improvement. 13-15 hours a week for 20 weeks is as focused/consistent/disciplined as it gets. Stories like that def. make me excited. Incidentally, one of my nieces is enrolled part time at this Korean school (learning center) called Elite Academy. I suggested it to her parents as she was struggling with math last year and I didn't want her running from it like i did. The kids in that school typically go on to score perfect on the SAT. She's in the 2nd grade doing 4th grade level math now. She absolutely blew away her Math IA standardized exam and will be starting a gifted program next year. But yeah, this will continue to be a hobby of mine so long as the disparities persist.
Now that you've been admitted, I don't think anyone else will care about your score, except for you. That's the best advice I can give you.
uh, why.
As a grad of a top bschool and someone that works at M/B/B and sees what goes on behind the scenes, yes, your test scores do matter. At most top b-schools their is grade non-disclosure so gmat is a default way to make a snap judgement on intellectual horsepower. That being said, while a 700 wont get you any interviews/offers, it also wont disqualify you by any means. It will not be the focus of recruiting; it will be a non-factor.
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