Goldman Sachs - Operation Analyst Salary 2009

Hey all,

I just received an offer from Goldman Sachs' Operations Division in Singapore. (Full time)
I'm not too crazy about the job since its in operations, but I have been wanting to move to singapore ever since the beginning of my university career. So, I thought it might not be a bad idea to move there with GS.

However, the initial offer they gave me is very low and I'm not sure if that's something I can live off of in Singapore (given the huge amount of student loan I have).

So, I thought I'd post a forum on here for anyone who has experience in salary negotiation.

Questions:

  • How much are analysts in ops getting paid these days anyways?
  • Should I even negotiate? or simply decline the offer?

thanks for all your help in advance.

SR.

 

I got an offer a couple weeks ago from GS Ops in Salt Lake City, it is for $42K, $10K relocation, and discretionary year end bonuses. Does any one know what the year end bonus in Ops are like?

 

No negotiation. I wish I could've negotiated my IBD base. Trust me it's useless to try, they can easily get another state school kid who is unemployed in this job market to fill the job, just like they can get any other kid on the waiting list to take an IBD spot if some kid is stupid enough not to take the job due to the base salary.

 

I guess the obvious choice here is to decline the offer...

I do hold a masters degree in finance (at a reputable school). Have several other interviews lined up for PE and IB firms... but the problem is... I don't want to stay local... so wanted to seek the first singapore opportunity that came up; and was hoping maybe I'll find another job while i'm there.

but 30k is waay too little...

 

Hey snowrice,

Actually, I am at exactly same position you are at now. I've got offered by Operation division in Singapore two days ago, and was surprised too about the same range of low base salary. I do have master degree in Engineering degree from reputable school in the States.

Working abroad and Goldman Sachs look very tempting but I think too that the salary is much lower than I expected. Where did you get the job offer by the way in Canada?

It seems like it's not possible to negotiate salary for analyst though.

 

Yeah; I did get it in Canada;

I'm probably going to decline... because it is impossible for me to live off of that... converting that to local salary... is pretty much poverty.. (one can work 1.5 McDonald jobs and get paid higher than that... tehahaa) I do believe the job prospect is not that horrible and given my background, I do hope to find something at least above average;

what about u? what's ur plan? did you already receive ur offer package? or is it a verbal estimate?

 

thanks for your advice; that's something I was seriously considering as well... I'm done school after Feb... and the job doesn't start until july-ish... so I have several months to prep myself and grab a CFA level (if possible).

then, head to Singapore prepared; but I guess my concern is that I don't have much previous work experience (besides a term at a boutique venture capital firm). So, finding a job there maybe even tougher than in Canada; but i guess, i'll never know until I go for it and try right?

 

they are sending me the pakage to vancouver i am still waiting for it. u got the offer in paper already? I did nt ask about the salary so if it is 45k sgd i probably wont go. the rent is above 2k per month.

 

45k SGD is not that low for a grad and you can cover your living expenses in Singapore. Tax + Food + Lodging and other general expenses dont even come close to the levels in the US.

I don't think you should convert SGD to USD, if you're working in SG and spending there then the local currency is all that matters. I think you should just be prepared for lower salary levels (comparative to US) if you want to work in SG as a grad

 

thanks the for advice wawaweewa;

I realize there will be a pay cut if I worked in Singapore.. but unfortunately, I do have student loans on top of the living expenses... and a salary that barely covers living expenses is going to be tough to manage; regardless where I live...

but at least I have a good idea as to what this salary looks like relative to the avg...

 

I actually have noo clue if we do or not... I have yet to receive the paper document... the 45K quote is based on what the HR told me when i asked...

but will keep u updated;

 

thanks snowrice. maybe there s signing bonus in addition :)

I think i will wait until everything s clear and then decide to go or not. I heard operation is super busy no less work than ibd but very low pay. im still waiting for other offers so, i will keep you posted too. but 45k is really far below my expectation.

 

I do hold nationality of one of the Asian countries. I expected higher wages since the firm is the top financial firms in the world.

However, the reality is that the salary in Singapore is almost same level of salary in Korea and Japan for top financial companies like GS and others.

I expected higher wages since I thought I would get the salary based on US standard, but it seems my just dream. Based on the standard of Asian countries, the entry-level salary in GS seems reasonable for sure.

It's not super competitive like in the US, but common in Asian countries, Japan, Korea, and others. That is why all the Asian students in US want to get a job in the States, paying you much more than in their own countries.

 

I'm Canadian; but I can speak and write mandarin and Cantonese (parents trained me well.. lol)

I"m gonna spend some more time on job hunting after graduation i think.. in canada;

what about u? are u planning on going or no?

 

Give me your email addresses if you don't mind. Since we do have same offers, it's more convenient to communicate via emails, even though you guys might decline the offer.

Thanks!

 

Operations in SG pay considerably higher (~SG$3700/mth) than the average starting salary of a fresh business graduate (~SG$2400-2800/mth), so it's not a bad deal. Unfortunately it comes up real short when you compare it to starting finance salaries in the US. That said, plenty of kids from local universities in Singapore would be more than willing to have that job.

 

Working at Singapore still makes you unique and gives you broader perspective in your career for sure. As you know, Singapore is a rising nation for a hub for Asia and Japan is kind of already saturated. So, SIngapore and other asean nation would have alot of things going on near future.

Name value of GS and working in Singapore might be enough to compensate the low salary. And usually, starting salary except IB division is usually not high for every where compared to the name value of GS, I heard. But they have big increase in salary annually and bonus will be quite impressive.

 

Hey all,

  1. Regardless of the relatively low salary, Is it that easy to get in back office of GS? or still it's hard to get in? Do I have to be proud myself being a part of GS still? Or lower salary represents that I should not?

  2. I just checked with my colleges from business field and they said that usually a starting salary is lower than you thought for GS or other top financial companies. But there is for sure a bigger increment in salary annually compared to other firms. I know the the salary for Singapore is not high, but it's almost same as other asian countries, Japan and Korea I know.

What do you guys think?

 

Hi, thanks for your comment. It seems like you know much more about the bank and financial companies.

If you don't mind, could you tell me what kind of work in Ops division do? I know that there are many parts within Ops division, but if you could give me a broad picture, it would help me better.

Thanks!

 

I did PWM at GS, which I guess is "glorified" ops at the analyst level since we all support the advisor. I'm not sure I understand your question but I think you are asking what kind of work Operations does in general? If so, it really depends.

One group can be about projects and efficiency of logistics but most operation units are based off trading and settling the different trade desks such as Commodoties, Equities, etc. You will do a lot of calling up back offices of other clients and/or following up on trades that don't clear. You also try to improve processes and decrease the number of fails a day.

Though it depends what group you are in such as IBD ops, trade ops, etc. at the end of the day all you really do is follow up on front office work and make sure that what they do goes through.

 

Thank you boutiquebank4life for your information.

So, if we want to pull out the "good part" of operation division instead of low salary or working for not important thing like people in front office, can we say that we also can learn many things which are going on in the front office as the entry level, or could obtain a broad perspective about how he system of the entire firm runs with? People here might say right things, but inclined to be negative things. I believe that even though it's back-office, there are many things I can learn and advantages as well as an entry-level.

Thanks.

 
Best Response

Greetings from Singapore. I went for the same interviews but it seems that I'm on hold pending your declinations since HR just contacted me a couple of days ago saying they needed more time to decide.. ;)

chanky's right that SGD45k is definitely above average for the grads here. But they're not near figures for the IBD/S&T or consulting (SGD60-75k), plus most Singaporeans still live with parents for the first few years after graduation and have almost no student debt to clear.

So I guess you guys have a tough choice to make - you can probably get more in the US but this might be your stepping stone into Asia. For myself, I'm accepting an offer from a UK bank for its MA programme - not IBD, but at least some front office and syndication exposure, possibly closer interaction/networking with the IBD FO.

Cheers.

 

I found out that analyst position at Operation in NY office not tends to be around 50-60K. Considering NYC's super-expensive style, I also think that low salary of Singapore office many people say is not that low. I mean that it's not the same, but surviving in NYC with 50-60K is not super-different from surviving in Singapore with S45K, I guess.

 

I grew up in SG, and here is what I think:

You have a $3700 salary. Taxes are 15%, and 20% in CPF compulsory savings (you will get the money back only when u leave SG) gives you a disposable salary of ~$2500/mth

Food: You can have a good meal for $4-5 in a hawker center, or ~$7-8 at a nicer food court. There are also expensive restaurants out there. That makes it ~$20/day including breakfast, or $600/mth.

If this site http://www.rentinsingapore.com/current_rental_market_rates is any legit, then rents will be roughly $1000-2000 for a 1 bedroom in a decent location.

Transport: Perhaps ~$1.75 per bus/train trip, $3.5/day or $105/mth.

What you have left is probably $500 for your discretionary expenses. You'll get a lump sum of CPF savings back once you leave SG for good though.

Now that I think of it, pay is really low in SG. You might get by with ops pay in the US (maybe except in NYC), but it's definitely tough in SG. I guess the only way SG grads get by is that college tuition costs ~SG$8000 a year, and you can graduate in 3 years.

 

congrats on the offer! did you apply to just Singapore? I'm also from Canada, and I applied to Hong Kong and China. Last email i got i was told that i'll hear back this week. It's not looking good.

just wondering who sent you the offer? Do you know if anyone got the offer to other Asia offices?

 

thanks chanky for the breakdown; that's indeed very very informative!

and just wondering, the 20% CPF... is that taxed at all upon leaving the country? or can I expect to get this exact lump sum back upon leaving for good?

 

CPF deductions are generally not required for foreigners here in Singapore unless you decide to pursue permanent residency here later on or if GS has a practice of voluntary deductions (gotta check your letter of offer) . But just fyi, CPF itself will not be taxed whether upon deduction or when you leave SG.

chanky's pretty accurate with the breakdown of living expenses but I might add that property rent will only increase from 2010 onwards. The market here's recovering post-recession.

Good luck in making your decision! Cheers.

 

Hey agree with Chanky. Assuming you are taxed locally, everything else is cheap. When it comes to accommodation, assuming GS is not looking one for you, try not to stay in the City cause the rents are excessive. Public transport in Singapore is superb (esp the trains). CPF is kinda a bitch esp if you only want to work here for a couple of years.. I do agree that 45K is quite small, but relative to the locals here, its a respectable pay.

Work aside, living in SG is fun due to its distance to places like Bali, Phuket, islands in Malaysia and so on. Absorb the culture, its always an eye opener (although alcohol here is relatively expensive)

Congrats on the offers and yes working in GS will always be a prestige.

 

If I think of going to law school after 2 or 3 years working

which is the better decision to make:

  1. Top engineering company in US paying you more than 70K
  2. Top financial company in SG such as Goldman Sachs paying you like 35K

    Pro for 1: Pay more and relatively easy going work environment Cons for 1: bored of engineering

    Pro for 2: Regarding my background with multi-cultural, working in SG would give me more cultural experience in rising financial hub for ASEAN countries. I am the person who wants to work very hard in dynamic environment who communicates with people alot. Cons for 2: Pay less

 

hi guys ... i believe i could also be looking at Ops in Singapore. However I am in the final round and have a good shot at being a consulting analyst at Accenture (in Toronto).

Any thoughts? I, like the rest of you guys, have a strong affinity towards living in Asia but not sure if I'm ready/willing to give in to the pay cut. I get paid ~4600 USD/month right now as an Engineering Business Analyst Intern ...

Also, just how many offers are they handing out in GS Ops? seems like ther tossin out offers like candy over there ...

cheers,

 

Hi! I also got the offer for gs operation in singapore:) I am actually quite excited to go there and start a whole new life, cultural experience and etc. But I was also surprised by the compensation especially about the relocation parts especially its such a renown company, but I think I might just as well accept the offer.

Does someone happens to know how the training program will be like for the analysts?

 

operation division. just got the offer from beijing office. the pay is also not exciting. wondering if anyone knows anything about the group there.

 

Hey guys!!!

Soo... now that we've received the offer package.... lets chat about it... hopefully asap... as I gotta talk to the HR lady soon to have her walk me through the package... and see if we can get together for an online chat?

PM me asap if youre on the same boat!

 
1styearBanker:
Hahahaha, Goldman sachs is perhaps the epitome of structure and disdain on back office. They are the flag bearers who lead the charge on the practice of shitting on internal transfers of any kind, even FO to FO if it meant from ER to IBD or PWM to S&T. The only bank known to do BO/MO to FO is now dead, aka Bear Stearns; the scrappiest firm of them all.

apparently you don't work at GS. we had 2 people in our business unit who went from ops to the trading desk, one who went to sales, and another handful of S&T people who actually moved to assoc./VP roles in ops. ability to lateral internally is definitely there if you have the passion and talent and actively demonstrate it. can't speak for ops to IBD transitions however, as there is normally less correlation between the 2 divisions.

and from what i've heard: expected 2010 Ops 1st yr analyst comp in NYC/NJ = $55k base + $10k signing/reloc. + $5k to $15k OT pay + $5k to $15k y.e. bonus = $75k to $95k total comp, depending on hours, group and personal performance.

 

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