Do beautiful/attractive people have a competitive edge in their careers? (Superficially speaking)
The world is full of diversity. Some people are just amazingly beautiful/drop-dead gorgeous and some people are just the opposite. Do you think it is easier for the more beautiful/attractive people to get jobs/climb up the corporate ladder than the rest? Just how far do you think your looks can take you in one's career path?
What about the people who are average looking but can dress up like celebrities/fashion models versus someone who dresses mediocre/standard? Do you think these "looks" play a very important role in someone's career and the competitiveness in the work force?
On a majority case, no. Maybe with some employers, though.
I think it depends on the career path chosen and the job specification.
Certain industries require good looks to get into and go far (modelling, showbiz, sales) whereas others do not tend to discriminate or judge based on your looks.
That being said, I do think that someone who looks pleasant and gentle on the eye may have it easier to go further as opposed to someone who isn't.
http://eprints.lancs.ac.uk/49022/4/AthleticPerformance.pdf
Interesting study done here about attractiveness as it relates to success if anyone is interested.
The hot chicks in my engineering classes got interviews seemingly much easier than the guys.
One of my former engineering employers said that a girl in engineering with an equal resume to a guy has a 3-1 advantage in getting the job.
Sounds about right.
I believe that. I was in land management in the oil and gas industry and during school recruiting the girls had about 3 times more interviews lined up than most the guys did. There were 30 school recruiting that fall and one of the girls had 28 interviews lined up. All the other girls were close to the number too.
Not engineering but same idea.
Good Looking males analysts in I-banking (Originally Posted: 03/02/2010)
So I am a very attractive male (or at least people say I am, and girls literally threw themselves at me in college)
Will I be treated differently b/c of my looks in Investment Banking? Will the other male analysts resent me or look up to me? Will the straight MDs give me higher bonuses b/c subconsciously they have a crush on me? Or will I make them feel emasculated? Will the gay MD's come on to me and make things uncomfortable?
So basically, I'm really worried that people will judge me on my looks rather than performance. Am I just being paranoid?
Not experienced but have seen some cases. Good looking people do attract attentions. It may lead to attention from your boss or your clients, but you need to deal with your colleagues' jealousy.
Some ideas: 1) It might bring you opportunities at first, but people give they would expect certain return. No free meals in this world after all.
2) Good-looking pay theory My professor back in college mentioned a study stating that good-looking brings higher pay, but I can't remember the exactly study.
3) Human beings are visual animals, so it's understandable that attractive people have more opportunities
However, I think you can do a lot of things to change your image even if you're not born "beautiful". Dressing, style, reasonably clean, behaviors, expressions etc. When you practice smiling, your facial muscles change probably leads to prettier shape of face :)
Good for you if you're "beautiful" but don't worry if you're not.
Mockery of the same thread posted by a female a few days ago??? Could have been stronger but I applaud the effort.
look
i just want to know if good looks in banking apply to males as well
like, will i get promoted to associate directly after 2 years?
Haha, good form. +1
sadly, i think attractive people do get treated differently. nice post though
No one cares what you look like. They only care about cock size--girth, not length. Will you get treated better with a big one? Absolutely--where do you think 'big swinging dick' comes from?
The key is letting everyone know you're packing heat. Sure...you can be like every other guy and talk a big game, but the way forward is obvious: full-frontal nudity in the middle of the trading floor.
If HR catches on, you're fucked, but if you play your cards right, you'll be getting a BJ from an MD and a job at Moore Macro (as I hear it, they LOVE big swinging dicks over there).
what about wearing tight cut european dress slacks to show off the bulge?
^Very well put. Spot on.
True story: I used to have a boss who would ALWAYS prop his leg up on the desk when speaking with a female intern/analyst/associate. ALWAYS.
Why stop at tight trousers? Thrust your cock into co-workers' unwillingly, unsuspecting faces and see what happens. At the very least, they'll know you mean business.
Dear Brotherbear,
2 ingenius posts = +1 Silver Banana to you.
Yours Sincerely, Rebelcross
what if the whole reason you got an offer was because you slept with a female MD?
would be be treated differently than?
i lost a job over this...true story... not MD but VP
please tell
was she a well disguised trannie?
was it dennis kneale?
details please
Details please, I make 4 which is 20% of 20, so that's close enough. Give us details, now.
ya, I want details as well
Wow, monty, good story. So, where did you go from there...how does one go from being fired to IBD?
I was at said coffee with Monty09 and said VP was indeed attractive.
damn this story just made my day
monty09 nothing to regret about, great story that will never get old
I had a beatdown of a day and that story made it better... hahha.
Monty, epic!
props, +1 silver banana...
Great story Monty... in my haste I accidentally threw monkey shit at you. I will now use my last two credits to give you silver bananas on your other posts. BTW, you should kick IT in the nuts.
props seconded--made my night!
how does IT even get their grubby hands on this stuff? so they notice all the e-mails being sent, whoopee. can they accuse you of having a relationship when that's all the proof they have? never trust ops people.
my favorite part is, You:"how about lunch?" Her:"how about dinner?" You:"how about breakfast?" Her:"Oh my"
didnt think people would like it so much... I have some other crazy stories but have to get me drinking for them to come out
hahaha what a great thread... "pounded like an idaho potatoe" lol!
so when do we get to hear these stories? I personally want to hear about the soccer mom (in similar detail to the s&t vp)
I wish I had credits for silver banana. Classic.
I believe I had the opportunity like Monty as an intern once. But unfortunately lacked his forward/awesomeness. Looking back, I kinda wish I did. Not like I actually went back to that company.
Damn, the soccer mom AND her sister. WFT! I guess, it's not like the soccer mom can call you out on it if she was(?) still married. All she can do is bitch to her sister.
What I want to know. How do you handle the aftermaths of these hook-ups? When I had a one nighter --> turned to one weeker. It was so awkward afterward, This was still back in college. What's coaching LL like and your relationship with the said VP --> MD like now?
this was awesome! you da man monty
There should be a series called Naughty Monty. Someone make a thread, quick !
-
am i the only one who cannot see monty's story?
I have the exact same problem as OP except im extremely ugly.
i cant either hahah
Can't see it either.
think he deleted his posts
boo self-censorship
Repost it?
i did delete. lots of those folks still in industry
damnit.
monty please??maybe PM?
Dont trust him monty, trust me...
I finished reading LSO and I need something new :(
was it that good?
Repost!
I have no idea monty, but I want to find out :-p
ditto
Bring it back.
hahaha.... PM me guys and I will post to you directly...
if anyone has my org post put it back up....
what was the age gap?
>10 years
pm i got last night:
any tips for scoring with the hot ladies in the office? especially as an intern?
my reply
just be yourself. dont be someone or something your not.. I worked my ass off but took some time and was nice to her.. keep in mind most guys are jerks in finance.. so take the time to be nice, treat her like a lady and say something nice every once in a while.. it started for me by simply saying I liked her dress or hair .. something rather simple...
Surely in client facing roles yes?
There are several studies on this, but there is a statistically proven correlation between "attractiveness" and success. However, there are also other important correlations at play which have as big an impact on success if not more so than the direct result of external perceptions.
This is a big generalization obviously, but on average more attractive people tend to have greater self confidence as well as more opportunities for growth of social skills during their "developmental" years, both of which can be meaningful contributors to success. In both cases, though, there are definitely exceptions and these are absolutely factors you personally have the ability to influence.
You will have an easier time getting a job if the person on the other side of the table finds you attractive. It's really as simple as that; you can't become CEO by simply being beautiful--but you can use it to win business etc which would be helpful in rising the corporate ladder. However, if you're smart you'll be alright. Dumb and ugly? Just give up.
Go on LinkedIn, look at the VPs and Associates at GS/MS, look at the MBB rosters, do you think on average the women are anything but above average looking?
Even if we branch out to other industries, Marissa Mayer, Elizabeth Holmes, top female executives aren't ugly.
Marissa Mayer and Elizabeth Holmes? How about Mary Barra and Padmasree Warrior?
...you think Elizabeth Holmes is hot...?
She and Mayer aren't my style but let's not act like they're not above average in appearance.
It absolutely helps and you see this all the time in the most senior roles at large companies. The top shelf management may not necessarily be any smarter or more experienced than the next echelon below them, but they are overwhelmingly stronger and more attractive looking people. I think a lot of the correlation probably comes from the role that fitness plays. High achieving people that are competitive and like to bike/swim/run/ski etc are generally going to look better than high achieving people who like to sit on the couch. They are also (on average) probably more confident, and calm in high pressure situations. I think this correlates well with their ability to function in the C-suite.
yes, but that doesn't mean you should get plastic surgery to get a better chance at a superday
haha I'm almost certain this crossed someone's mind after reading this
with this forum, you never know
Blasphemy.
Nothing says self assurance like getting work done before you're 22...
Damn if only I read that a few hours earlier
Haven't had much client facing experience but most MD's, guy or girl, that I've met hasn't exactly been ugly. But one thing they all have in common is that they're all real smooth talkers. If you have the face only your mother could be proud of, I'm fairly certain charisma and charm can easily override that.
of course. just look at some of the CEOs of the large banks (UBS, JP Morgan). they are handsome as hell (no homo).
In my experience, most of the very successful (but not ULTRA successful) people are good looking (but not incredibly beautiful) and tall.
For finance careers, I define very successful as managing directors at investment banks, non-founding partners at good private equity funds, etc.
It's not a prerequisite, but it 100% helps in client facing roles.
Is water wet? Is the Pope catholic?
That being said, Carly Fiorina looks like she belongs competing in the Kentucky Derby.
How is this even a question? Of course being good looking helps in life. Most high powered women execs are thin, most men in positions of power are 6 ft+, etc ,etc, etc. No one's going to give you a job (outside of modeling or whatever) because you're pretty, but of course its going to help. Why wouldn't it?
Yes, looking like your typical tall, blonde Dane has definitely helped my career. However, it only got me the interview, but I had to have something to back it up.
People sometimes ask if the women are more vicious than the men. It's about the same. If the men think they have no chance with you (which they don't, but you know sometimes men have I guess a self-hated of themselves or something that makes them want to punish you for being a temptress) it makes them be awful. I don't mind the constant general flirtation, I would much rather have that then some guy who comes over and starts asking you about mathematical theories that you don't know and then rubs it in your face and tells you that you don't know anything while speaking loudly so that everyone hears.
Women are fifty-fifty. I have met some amazing, wonderful women in my career and I could not be more thankful. But some women are terrible. One spread a rumor that I couldn't flush toilets. Another used to speak to me like I didn't know English (even though it's my first language).
jesus christ
There is a simple answer and that answer is yes.
There is no ifs, ands, or buts about it. This is how the world works and I sure as hell will milk what my momma gave me for every penny I can.
i work with some ugly (but nice) people
Attractive people have a competitive edge in general. I notice when I shave my head I frequently get asked my age. There have been times around the office people thought I was more senior than I am and I think it is all due to above average height and below average follicular gainz. Feels bad man.
There are miscers working on the street? Interdasting..
Yes. Theres no reason to even speculate on this, there have been many studies done all with the same result. Being taller helps too.
I was told they hired me for my personality and really liked my two big assets staring them in the face
My feeling is absolutely, yes.
Not for the reasons you would assume though. Rather, in a super competitive atmosphere it is usual to encounter difficult situations and have to persevere. Where does the will to persevere come from??
It comes from confidence and preparation. Real genuine confidence. There is a high correlation between real confidence and being good looking, for obvious reasons.
Therefore people who are good looking are more well equipped to handle adverse situations.
For the same reason, the NFL evaluates potential quarterbacks in a draft class based on facial symmetry (strongly linked to attractiveness).
It's called Halo Effect...not rockit science
The harder you work, the uglier you are.
My cock is beautiful but I never got any promotions because of it. Ignore the naysayers and just work your ass off. You'll make MD if you become an excel master, and pull all nighters...trust me.
The word you are looking for is Charisma.
Good looking + Charisma = Win Average looking + Charisma = Win Good looking + No Charisma = No Edge
In Analytics/Research/Administrative/Engineering/Medical/Technology jobs, looks and charisma play no role at all.
In Executive Management/Business/Banking/Marketing, you absolutely need to have at least Charisma and good looks is a Bonus.
I work at a Multinational in a function I am not interested in, therefore I admit I am really not performing compared to my peers. However, what kept me on the payroll is a mix of charisma/looks/people skills.
My Brother works in Marketing and he is good looking as well, most of the women working at his clients' offices are constantly in contact with him and he managed to land the largest Real Estate developer in the region as his client thanks to the PR/Communications girl in their office that seems to have a crush on him.
So from personal experience, yes.
Yes, generally being attractive seems to increase/enhance one's career path for all the reasons mentioned: increased self-confidence, "eye candy" desire, potential ability to sell more to clients, etc.
However, there could be a flip-side. This article (see link) brings up that being attractive can also work against you; though it does so in the context of job interviews, but I think you could apply it to careers in general. It mentions things like jealousy among co-workers and the "dumb blonde" hypothesis (i.e. beautiful people tend to be stupid). I would also bring up two other possibilities. One, that attractive people can be associated with negative traits like being entitled, arrogant, etc. Two, that some work places may actually shy away from hiring attractive individuals (especially females) for fear that they could create a negative work environment by fostering certain issues (e.g. points of distraction, contention, etc.).
http://www.economist.com/node/21551535
I lost 60 pounds in a year; and got promoted from Senior Associate (was stuck in SA roles for 2 years) to VP. I am very sure that my technical skills haven't improved much. But I have closed more deals after I lost weight. So "Yes"?
"You don’t have to be beautiful to work in banking, but it may help. Especially if you want to work in the front office careers where people are of above average attractiveness. Which careers are those? Try equity capital markets (ECM), followed by sales. Trading and technology, not so much. M&A, maybe."
http://news.efinancialcareers.com/uk-en/243268/the-most-beautiful-profe…
During my stint in corp fin. I worked with some girls who were super hot but completely useless in the workplace. Hot interns would receive FT offers after barely showing up. It was actually pretty crazy. However, that't not to say there were good looking females who were very good at what they did too. But I definitely think it plays a factor. At least at that place it did.
True story: every morning I walk right by the JPM building on Park Av. on my way to my office; 80% of attractive women around me as I approach that building go inside.
Most finance people are men. I think it's not rocket science to get why an attractive girl would have an easier time dazzling a guy than an unattractive girl.
With guys, I think good looking men tend to be more confident and project their personalities better, which affects interviews.
You can't be good looking and stupid, but all else equal (or close to equal) I think looks make a noticeable difference.
Read about the Halo effect and its phenomenon in the political field. People will gravitate towards the male that has an authoritative look (i.e. symmetric face, sharp features, and clean-cut).
People will have a natural disposition towards liking an attractive person and will be biased towards assuming they're skilled at some seemingly unrelated [insert] job / task.
In a male-dominated field like finance where there is probably a statistically significant higher number of higher-testosterone males who spend the majority of their waking hours working, you'll find a greater share of under-sexed horn dogs to put it bluntly.
In my opinion, an attractive female that can flirt subtly (or not) with these guys will have an edge all else being equal.
Unfortunately, they play more of a role than you may think. Although an interviewer may not make a final decision of yes or no over looks alone, they are a factor. Someone who is better looking will have more confidence and is often liked by those in their circle. The bigger your circle, the more networking opportunities you have. Ultimately, Bad looks will rarely hinder you, unless modeling, yet good looks will help get in the door and move up the ladder, to some extent.
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