The Truth About GE's Financial Management Program (FMP)

My two cents about GE's Financial Management Program, the two-year, four-rotation program of General Electric.

General Electric FMP Overview

The very first thing you must bear in mind about the GE FMP is that it’s about accounting. Forget investment banking, capital markets, private equity, or anything even only remotely connected to Wall Street or the Square Mile. Finance in GE = accounting. If accounting is what you want to do, the FMP may be a good choice. If Wall Street is your dream, then the FMP is one of the worst choices you could ever make.

GE FMP Wall Street Exit Opps

The only GE finance roles which can give a relatively decent chance of moving to Wall Street are those in BD (business development) i.e. M&A, dispositions, restructuring etc. But there are very few such roles, they’re very cyclical, and when the job market gets tough there will be little reason for an investment bank to prefer an FMP who did BD over a former investment banker with more relevant experience.

On top of that, managers have a less noble incentive to create FMP rotations: in most GE businesses, hiring freezes are common, and headcount and compensation expenditures are closely monitored. When a finance manager creates an FMP rotation, the FMP will not be listed in the headcount, and his salary will not appear in the compensation & benefits line of the P&L. Instead, the GE business in question will pay a fixed contribution to the central FMP office.

International Rotations in the Financial Management Program

You should also pay close attention to the type of contract they’ll give you. If the chances of international rotations are high, you are exposed to the risk of being sent to a country with a higher cost of living and being given inadequate salary adjustments. Salary adjustments and expat packages for FMPs changed by a huge deal from time to time, and among businesses. As always, the rule is: do no trust a single thing you are promised unless it’s backed up by a written contract. If your contract, or a subsequent written document, clearly states that you will get a cost of living adjustment of x% if you move to country Y, fine; but don’t just expect a decent cost of living adjustment because you think GE is like a big mum which takes care of you and looks after your well-being.

What Do You Do in the Financial Management Program?

Finally, let’s get to the nature of the work. This can change, but the constant is that you’ll be an accountant, and therefore be involved with monthly and quarterly closing, as well as with planning sessions. Once again, you must be very sure that you know what accounting is about, and that you’ll like it. Most of the work involves creating reports and filling in tables with numbers. In an ideal world, you should spend 10 minutes retrieving the data and the rest of the day analyzing it, but in reality you’ll spend 90% of your day retrieving, cleansing and reformatting the data, and there will be no time left for meaningful analyses.

Financial Management Program is Effectively a Back Office Role

Most work is extremely mind-numbing and boring, and could be done by any high school student. I remember several FMPs joking about how their work involved only putting numbers into tables and summing them up… Accounting has always been, and will always be, a back office function: lower pay and lower recognition.

Nothing wrong with that, as long as you’re fully aware of it. Not convincend? Just search this forum, or similar ones, for discussions on how to move from the back office to the front office (especially in banks); almost all forums and career websites are inundated with questions on how to pull this off. Clearly every individual is different, and I may love a job you hate, or viceversa, but why is there not a single front office banker who says that he doesn’t like his job, that he’d love to move to the back office but can’t? Not a single one…

Should I Accept a Position in the General Electric FMP?

Bear in mind that only someone close to you and with direct experience in the field could potentially tell you all the pros and cons of a job, of any given job. On-campus events and company websites are completely pointless, because clearly they’re all about trying to convince you how great the roles they offer are.

What if, instead, accounting really is for you? Like I said, if this is the case, the FMP may be a good choice, as long as you’re really convinced accounting is what you want to do. If this is the case, the best way to progress your career is to join CAS, the corporate audit staff, after the FMP. Make no mistakes: CAS is about auditing and accounting, not about anything fancier. You’ll be ticking boxes and putting together Power Point charts all over the globe – but don’t think Paris New York and Melbourne: think more of industrial plants in the middle of nowhere.

The work/life balance is terrible, worse than in M&A (M&A bankers don’t have to spend 3 months in Idaho and then 4 in the Scottish Highlands), the pay is lower but it tends to propel you to a decent career within GE.

GE Work Environment

Also bear in mind that in GE you will be subjected to a very, very intense brainwashing to convince you that GE is like a big family, that your superiors are like caring relatives who look after your well being, etc. Do I need to tell you how naïve of you it would be to believe any of this? While having a powerful sponsor is good for your career, you must build a CV that is marketable on the outside world, too: your hope of career progression cannot just depend on the benevolence of a manager.

To sum up: the fact that I didn’t like it is irrelevant. It can be a good career choice, but only as long as you know what it entails and you have realistic expectations.

You can read more about the FMP on GE's Corporate Website.

You can read more about GE on the WSO Company Database.

You can also check out a video about the FMP below in a video from GE.

Read More About the GE FMP on WSO

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What would you say is the ratio of FMP kids who go into GE Capital or GE Asset Mgmt? Personally I could care less because it's irrelevant to my life, but I thought it was a higher number than you suggest.

 

You get fasttracked if you do the CAS for at least 3 years after the FMP. But, remember, you get fasttracked in back-office accounting positions. If you don't do CAS, well, you have a more extensive network than your non-CAS colleagues, but I would hardly call it a fast track. Think of it this way: if you could get similar career opportunities without doing CAS, then nobody would do it!

Many FMPs do end up in GE Capital, but, again, in back-office roles. In fact, too many: GE is, at heart, a manufacturing company which understands little about banking. This is reflected in the FMP courses, which are all about inventory and cost of goods sold. Most GE finance people are entirely clueless about funding costs, yield curves and the other bits and pieces which are fundamental in running a bank. Moving people from the industrial to the capital side is a big mistake, imho, because they don't understand the banking world nor, especially if they are senior managers/executives, are they humble enough to admit it. It also doesn't help that most functions (treasury, hedging etc) are centralised in Stamford, so local treasures don't do the job of an actual treasurer, etc.

Forget about front office roles in GE Capital.

As for asset management, I don't know but I suspect the same applies: those who end up there land back-office roles.

 

As someone in a different F500 who works with many ex-FMPers I can say that most of what you say is accurate. However, most of it is accurate for all F500 rotational programs and really for almost all entry level accounting or finance positions.

No doubt IBanking, PE, HF and even consulting are very different than Corp Finance at a large company or most other accounting and finance positions. If your end goal is to be bsd in the former category you do really need to jump right into those roles. However, if you see yourself ending up in anything other than those roles the FMP and other similar programs are great ways to start.

At the entry level it is mostly accounting, grunt work, but getting that experience can help propel you into the more interesting roles. In most career paths the positions get more interesting (and analytical) as you progress. I think you'd agree the FMP can help you get to Director relatively quickly. In my opinion that's where most of the more interesting work starts.

I'm not disputing anything you say, but it's not all as negative as your tone suggests.

twitter: @CorpFin_Guy
 
accountingbyday:

No doubt IBanking, PE, HF and even consulting are very different than Corp Finance at a large company or most other accounting and finance positions. If your end goal is to be bsd in the former category you do really need to jump right into those roles. However, if you see yourself ending up in anything other than those roles the FMP and other similar programs are great ways to start.

I tend to agree with you, as long as you know the FMP is 98% accounting, and you know what accounting is about. In all the career events I attended, the FMP was portrayed as a generic program in which you get to do a bit of everything. This is soooo false. I also honestly didn't imagine how boring accounting could have been - my bad for being naive, I guess.

accountingbyday:
At the entry level it is mostly accounting, grunt work, but getting that experience can help propel you into the more interesting roles. In most career paths the positions get more interesting (and analytical) as you progress. I think you'd agree the FMP can help you get to Director relatively quickly. In my opinion that's where most of the more interesting work starts.

I'm not disputing anything you say, but it's not all as negative as your tone suggests.

Not too sure what you mean by director. In many organisations (in GE like in i-banks), titles tend to be handed out as confetti (words are cheap, salary increases are not!). I don't agree that the FMP without CAS is a fast track. It's a good experience, because you get to see 4 roles and 4 businesses in 2 years, but I don't consider it a fast track. Also bear in mind that the reputation of GE varies greatly from country to country; in the US it's a huge name, but in Europe it's not as well known.

I agree that roles tend to get more interesting as you progress, but I disagree that they also get more analytical - usually quite the opposite. An MD in a bank will never get into the nitty gritty details of an Excel pricing / derivative / merger model. A CFO in GE will hardly analyse the details of the accounting entries done by his underlings, etc.

 

A lot of what you're doing with FMP is accounting, but it's not as negative and hateful as you're portraying it to be. Keep in mind it IS an entry level position. I don't know too many people (finance or otherwise) in entry-level positions doing super-amazing things. It is great to get those different experiences, and you can leverage it outside the company. Aside from a banking position, it's probably the best non- wall st. finance position you can snag.

 

GE's accounting functions can't be as worthless/mind-numbing as you make it out to be. Yeah, at the entry-level position you will be doing most of the boring aspects, but as you move up, even if you are involved with quarter/yearly closes, you move beyond JUST closing/balancing the book and more into analyzing/forecasting the numbers. That's where the more interesting work is, I'm sure (I'm still in college so in case anyone else is reading this: full disclosure is I'm not a professional but am going off of what others have said).

A former alum from my school (a non-target btw) did FMP then went to Stanford and then BCG. That should show you that top brand schools/firms do value the work/experience that GE gives people and it's not some glorified back office either.

In any case, I don't want to challenge you too much because you have actually experienced the program and as I mentioned, I'm just a kid, but I don't think that the experience is as negative or boring as your tone made it seem. I've talked to my friends in banking and they don't find the work they do as an analyst that exciting either even though that's the epitome of what is considered to be "finance"

Pretty women make us BUY beer. Ugly women make us DRINK beer.
 
Al Bundy:
GE's accounting functions can't be as worthless/mind-numbing as you make it out to be. Yeah, at the entry-level position you will be doing most of the boring aspects, but as you move up, even if you are involved with quarter/yearly closes, you move beyond JUST closing/balancing the book and more into analyzing/forecasting the numbers. That's where the more interesting work is, I'm sure (I'm still in college so in case anyone else is reading this: full disclosure is I'm not a professional but am going off of what others have said).

True, juniors do boring grunt-work anywhere. Especially in M&A. But if you work in an investment bank on the capital markets side (think of trading, sales, structuring etc) you can get decent work and reasonable responsibility already at the associate level.

What I hated about the finance function was that everyone, except the CFO and some super senior executives who were involved in strategic decisions, did little more than just retrieving numbers, summing them up and putting them in spreadsheets and presentations. Then, again, this is just my $ 0.02 - like I said, others may well love what I hated, and viceversa.

Al Bundy:
A former alum from my school (a non-target btw) did FMP then went to Stanford and then BCG. That should show you that top brand schools/firms do value the work/experience that GE gives people and it's not some glorified back office either.

A single case does not show anything. In my experience, the most common mistake among students and new graduates is assuming that the experience of a friend will apply to them, as well. Statistics professors would call this unreliable inference based on non-representative samples. If a single individual has or hasn't a certain career path, well, it means nothing. You should look at how many people, on average, manage to do something similar. There are people who win the lottery, but this doesn't mean you are likely to win it, too!

Having said that, yes, GE is a well known brand, although way better known in the US than elsewhere. And yes, moving from the FMP to consulting is certainly feasible. But I still think the FMP is no more than a glorified back office. It seems to me you are assuming some rationality in the HR/recruitment processes which is just not there. The key driver of a young kid's (student or recent graduate with little experience) chances of landing a job is the power of his brand: how well known his uni and his first employers are. In theory, employers should value an experience at a large company like GE better because large companies should give you better exposure, more complex jobs, etc. In reality this tends to be very very far from the truth. A boring and mind-numbing job is still recognised as "valuable" just because of the power of the "brand".

Al Bundy:
In any case, I don't want to challenge you too much because you have actually experienced the program and as I mentioned, I'm just a kid, but I don't think that the experience is as negative or boring as your tone made it seem. I've talked to my friends in banking and they don't find the work they do as an analyst that exciting either even though that's the epitome of what is considered to be "finance"

I don't want to convince anyone that I am "right", I just want to highlight some of the most common mistakes and missconceptions. There are no right or wrong decisions if they are well informed.

My best advice to anyone considering the FMP is to try and talk to as many people who did it but, most of all, to try to intern at GE first. This way, if you don't like it, you still have time to find something else.

 

Who in their right mind would think of the FMP program as a substitute for a banking experience?

It's called financial planning, and it's fucking accounting that does planning. Granted that according to the OP, interns don't get to do any planning in the FMP program.

No one would remember the Good Samaritan if he'd only had good intentions; he had money as well.
 
Yohoo:
Who in their right mind would think of the FMP program as a substitute for a banking experience?

Straight out of uni, all those kids who drank GE's kool-aid that the FMP is a "generic" program where you get to do a bit of everything, not just "finance". In company presentations the word "accounting" is rarely mentioned, if at all.

But I was honestly shocked at the number of people who, even after years in GE's back office accounting function, still liked to consider themselves almost / sort-of bankers. Or at the number of people who thought that moving from bean-counting in an industrial business to bean-counting in a financial one would land them a job on Wall Street / The Square Mile Delusional wanna-be bankers

 
Yohoo:
Who in their right mind would think of the FMP program as a substitute for a banking experience?

Straight out of uni, all those kids who drank GE's kool-aid that the FMP is a "generic" program where you get to do a bit of everything, not just "finance". In company presentations the word "accounting" is rarely mentioned, if at all.

But I was honestly shocked at the number of people who, even after years in GE's back office accounting function, still liked to consider themselves almost / sort-of bankers. Or at the number of people who thought that moving from bean-counting in an industrial business to bean-counting in a financial one would land them a job on Wall Street / The Square Mile Delusional wanna-be bankers

sounds like you might have been drinking a bit of koolaid yourself. I remember at my first round interview the interviewer specifically told me it was accounting focused and I responded by telling her how much I despised accounting and thought it would be a waste of my youth, sufficed to say I didn't get a call back.

 

Yeah, I agree with what the OP said. The truth is that GE provides tons of opportunities to excel and fast track your career, but those who are not a strong performer can just as easily be dumped into an invisible role and get stuck there. I think that working at GE, people would be deathly scared of those roles and that's why they want to hold onto the promise of these FMP and CAS programs. Even becoming the go-to guy who can nimbly navigate all of GE's finance databases, one's career can easily plateau for any number of reasons.

I think a very overlooked consideration for working at this company is how open are you to constantly changing roles, especially relocating every so often. That's the minimum requirement for joining FMP/CAS but can greatly improve chances of moving up the ladder. That is, if this is your goal.

The wanna be bankers that the OP is talking about miss the big picture that these are more leadership training than banking-training programs, and that finance is just a platform. For example, FMPs are required to take to attend a week-long foundations of leadership seminar in Crotonville before they can even graduate. There is definitely a lot of brainwashing that goes on but I don't think you can just say that about GE alone.

 

Hey OP, first off, no hard feelings (I hope) from my post. I just wanted to offer Some more positive aspects I've heard from others since your post highlighted the bad.

However, and this is for everyone, as someone looking into pursuing FP&A since banking hasn't really worked out for me so far, I'm curious if the work in most industry finance jobs are as boring as you say? I don't mind doing accounting and actually enjoy it to some extent, but only if I can use it to make strategic recommendations. For example, in some of my case studies for accounting class, we did have to prepare accounts for class, but we also had describe how, based on the numbers, management needs to make changes in certain areas. Are all industry jobs as you described where it's pretty much just book keeping and inputting numbers in tables?

Pretty women make us BUY beer. Ugly women make us DRINK beer.
 
Al Bundy:
Are all industry jobs as you described where it's pretty much just book keeping and inputting numbers in tables?

All industry FINANCE jobs are like that. If you want to work in industry and not be back office, you need to work in operations/product management/marketing where the products are created and sold. Anything finance related, including corporate development, is back office. That also goes for corporate strategy. You either make/sell the product, or you are just support.

 
N.R.G.:
Al Bundy:
Are all industry jobs as you described where it's pretty much just book keeping and inputting numbers in tables?

All industry FINANCE jobs are like that. If you want to work in industry and not be back office, you need to work in operations/product management/marketing where the products are created and sold. Anything finance related, including corporate development, is back office. That also goes for corporate strategy. You either make/sell the product, or you are just support.

Are those jobs you mentioned (ops, product management, marketing) quantitative though? Part of what appeals to me in finance is that it relies on quantitative models/statistics, but it isn't so esoteric like other jobs are with their math that its still accessible to people like me who can't do some of the theoretical stuff that engineering demands. Also, don't most if not all of those positions require people from an engineering background because of their quant/tech skills?

Pretty women make us BUY beer. Ugly women make us DRINK beer.
 
Al Bundy:
Hey OP, first off, no hard feelings (I hope) from my post. I just wanted to offer Some more positive aspects I've heard from others since your post highlighted the bad.

However, and this is for everyone, as someone looking into pursuing FP&A since banking hasn't really worked out for me so far, I'm curious if the work in most industry finance jobs are as boring as you say? I don't mind doing accounting and actually enjoy it to some extent, but only if I can use it to make strategic recommendations. For example, in some of my case studies for accounting class, we did have to prepare accounts for class, but we also had describe how, based on the numbers, management needs to make changes in certain areas. Are all industry jobs as you described where it's pretty much just book keeping and inputting numbers in tables?

Of course no hard feelings. Apologies if I may have come across as confrontational.

I have explained what I think and why. I do consider back-office accounting to be pointless, dumb, boring, life-sucking and soul-destroying. This is based on the direct and indirect experience of myself and every individual I have had anything to do with.

My best advice is that you should look for someone who disagrees with me, ask him/her why, and then try to form your own opinion accordingly. Like I said, others may love what I hate, and viceversa.

 
kmzz][quote=Pari Passu]<a href=http://www.linkedin.com/pub/matthew-ranalli/5/256/398[/quote rel=nofollow>http://www.linkedin.com/pub/matthew-ranalli/5/256/398[/quote</a>:
what about him

It seems like this guy managed to move from the FMP to a front office role in banking. So what? Like I said, single cases don't prove anything. Carly Fiorina majored in philosophy and medieval history and became the CEO of HP. Does it mean that if you want to become the CEO of a technology company you should study the same subjects, too?

The point is not what a single individual did, but how representative his case is. To my knowledge, for one guy who manages this transition, there are hundreds who don't, even though they would sell their mothers to pull it off. I would also stress that it has become even harder in the last 4-5 years.

 
jon1987:
How selective is this program? (and ones comparable to it)

Hard to tell. Rumor has it these programs are selective but not as much as investment banks or the top 3 strategy consulting firms. GE also has a reputation for hiring from universities which are considered second-tier in the US and the UK, and not considered target schools by the top banks. Please no flames, I don't want to get into discussions of one school vs another: I am just stating the fact that GE hires from Florida State and from Manchester more than Goldman, which tends to prefer Harvard and Oxford/Cambridge.

 

What about P&G? They are huge and based out of Cincinnati (where I am) I can imagine they would have this, but I'm not sure.

"There are only two opinions in this world: Mine and the wrong one." -Jeremy Clarkson
 
Thurnis Haley:
I don't doubt that you're telling the truth. My question what the **** else would us kids from nontargets do? People can lament all day that it's accounting work but it's not like there's any better options.

I'm afraid I may have been a little unclear. I wasn't saying that no one should do it. I was trying to say that you should have realistic expectations, that's all. If you are at a nontarget, then GE may be an excellent choice, relative to your alternatives.

 
Thurnis Haley:
I don't doubt that you're telling the truth. My question what the **** else would us kids from nontargets do? People can lament all day that it's accounting work but it's not like there's any better options.

I'm afraid I may have been a little unclear. I wasn't saying that no one should do it. I was trying to say that you should have realistic expectations, that's all. If you are at a nontarget, then GE may be an excellent choice, relative to your alternatives.

Yeah I understand. It's better than unemployment or IT.
 

I'm interviewing for a 6-month FMP rotation internship tomorrow morning, and I'm not 100% sold on it. I will probably only accept it if they offer me a rotation in GE Capital vs HC/Energy. I'd like to go to B-School and move into PE down the road, I'm just nervous that in this environment It would be stupid to pass up any opportunity that could help me get into a top B-School.

 

for anyone thinking FMP is an alternative to banking is outside their mind. completely different fields and type of work. however, FMP is still a relatively good choice and can lead to a good b-school (seen kids go off to Harvard and other top 15 schools)

 

I am an ex-FMP and I have to say that I totally agree with your portrayal of GE’s financial management program. My advice is the same, if you want to work in banking then stay far away from the FMP. When I graduated from college there weren’t many jobs out there so I settled for the FMP which turned out to be the wrong choice for me. It isn’t as glamorous as they make it out to be. Your rotations are usually in the middle of nowhere unless you are in GE Capital... then you might get lucky and land yourself in a big city. I’m now currently trying to rid myself of the “accounting stigma” (that follows an ex-FMP) and move into PE or HF. We’ll see how that goes :-s

 

why not position yourself using this program to get into a top b-school, and try to make the transition into banking from there? I understand that it would be better to get ibanking experience before b-school but when that is difficult, like it is these days, corp finance doesn't sound like a terrible idea. Or is having the experience on resume looked down upon that much that it makes transitioning into banking difficult even after b-school?

 

Although I was part of another company's FMP (F500 tech co in the bay area), I would say that at least in my experience and those of my friends at other F500 tech FMPs, your description of the program differs from our experience in tech. From what I've seen at my firm and others in tech about 50% of FMP analysts end up in accounting / FP&A roles while the rest end up in M&A, strategy, biz dev, corporate treasury, etc. Additionally, at my firm the program has been around for about 7 years and out of the 140+ people that have gone through the program the ones that have left for MBAs (~25-30 people) have all gone to one of 7 schools Harvard, Stanford, Wharton, Booth, Kellogg, Tuck, and Berkeley. The ones that have left the company have pursued similar opps at rival tech co's., startups, or VC. Lastly, compared to GE's FMP our comp is significantly better most 1st year analysts make $90-100K all in and by your 3rd year or so you are usually making $115-125K all in. Which compared to banking is actually not bad since most of the time you work on average 40-50 hrs.

 
harvardgrad08:
Although I was part of another company's FMP (F500 tech co in the bay area), I would say that at least in my experience and those of my friends at other F500 tech FMPs, your description of the program differs from our experience in tech. From what I've seen at my firm and others in tech about 50% of FMP analysts end up in accounting / FP&A roles while the rest end up in M&A, strategy, biz dev, corporate treasury, etc. Additionally, at my firm the program has been around for about 7 years and out of the 140+ people that have gone through the program the ones that have left for MBAs (~25-30 people) have all gone to one of 7 schools Harvard, Stanford, Wharton, Booth, Kellogg, Tuck, and Berkeley. The ones that have left the company have pursued similar opps at rival tech co's., startups, or VC. Lastly, compared to GE's FMP our comp is significantly better most 1st year analysts make $90-100K all in and by your 3rd year or so you are usually making $115-125K all in. Which compared to banking is actually not bad since most of the time you work on average 40-50 hrs.

You make corp fin sound like so much fun....

The answer to your question is 1) network 2) get involved 3) beef up your resume 4) repeat -happypantsmcgee WSO is not your personal search function.
 
blackfinancier:
harvardgrad08:
Although I was part of another company's FMP (F500 tech co in the bay area), I would say that at least in my experience and those of my friends at other F500 tech FMPs, your description of the program differs from our experience in tech. From what I've seen at my firm and others in tech about 50% of FMP analysts end up in accounting / FP&A roles while the rest end up in M&A, strategy, biz dev, corporate treasury, etc. Additionally, at my firm the program has been around for about 7 years and out of the 140+ people that have gone through the program the ones that have left for MBAs (~25-30 people) have all gone to one of 7 schools Harvard, Stanford, Wharton, Booth, Kellogg, Tuck, and Berkeley. The ones that have left the company have pursued similar opps at rival tech co's., startups, or VC. Lastly, compared to GE's FMP our comp is significantly better most 1st year analysts make $90-100K all in and by your 3rd year or so you are usually making $115-125K all in. Which compared to banking is actually not bad since most of the time you work on average 40-50 hrs.

You make corp fin sound like so much fun....

/agree

 
harvardgrad08:
Although I was part of another company's FMP (F500 tech co in the bay area), I would say that at least in my experience and those of my friends at other F500 tech FMPs, your description of the program differs from our experience in tech. From what I've seen at my firm and others in tech about 50% of FMP analysts end up in accounting / FP&A roles while the rest end up in M&A, strategy, biz dev, corporate treasury, etc. Additionally, at my firm the program has been around for about 7 years and out of the 140+ people that have gone through the program the ones that have left for MBAs (~25-30 people) have all gone to one of 7 schools Harvard, Stanford, Wharton, Booth, Kellogg, Tuck, and Berkeley. The ones that have left the company have pursued similar opps at rival tech co's., startups, or VC. Lastly, compared to GE's FMP our comp is significantly better most 1st year analysts make $90-100K all in and by your 3rd year or so you are usually making $115-125K all in. Which compared to banking is actually not bad since most of the time you work on average 40-50 hrs.

I'm calling BS on this. 100k all in for a 1st year FMP analyst? In your dreams.

 
whitemamba1309:
harvardgrad08:
Although I was part of another company's FMP (F500 tech co in the bay area), I would say that at least in my experience and those of my friends at other F500 tech FMPs, your description of the program differs from our experience in tech. From what I've seen at my firm and others in tech about 50% of FMP analysts end up in accounting / FP&A roles while the rest end up in M&A, strategy, biz dev, corporate treasury, etc. Additionally, at my firm the program has been around for about 7 years and out of the 140+ people that have gone through the program the ones that have left for MBAs (~25-30 people) have all gone to one of 7 schools Harvard, Stanford, Wharton, Booth, Kellogg, Tuck, and Berkeley. The ones that have left the company have pursued similar opps at rival tech co's., startups, or VC. Lastly, compared to GE's FMP our comp is significantly better most 1st year analysts make $90-100K all in and by your 3rd year or so you are usually making $115-125K all in. Which compared to banking is actually not bad since most of the time you work on average 40-50 hrs.

I'm calling BS on this. 100k all in for a 1st year FMP analyst? In your dreams.

Harvardgrad is well known and a good resource on this forum. It's certainly believable for some of the well known tech companies. But most FLDPs will be between 60-70 all in first year.
 
whitemamba1309:
harvardgrad08:
Although I was part of another company's FMP (F500 tech co in the bay area), I would say that at least in my experience and those of my friends at other F500 tech FMPs, your description of the program differs from our experience in tech. From what I've seen at my firm and others in tech about 50% of FMP analysts end up in accounting / FP&A roles while the rest end up in M&A, strategy, biz dev, corporate treasury, etc. Additionally, at my firm the program has been around for about 7 years and out of the 140+ people that have gone through the program the ones that have left for MBAs (~25-30 people) have all gone to one of 7 schools Harvard, Stanford, Wharton, Booth, Kellogg, Tuck, and Berkeley. The ones that have left the company have pursued similar opps at rival tech co's., startups, or VC. Lastly, compared to GE's FMP our comp is significantly better most 1st year analysts make $90-100K all in and by your 3rd year or so you are usually making $115-125K all in. Which compared to banking is actually not bad since most of the time you work on average 40-50 hrs.

I'm calling BS on this. 100k all in for a 1st year FMP analyst? In your dreams.

I'm calling double BS. If they are paying 1st year financial analysts 90k (even with bonus), they are way over paying the market. I can't see Intel, AMD, Qualcomm, etc. paying that huge premium for a job that many grads can fill. Maybe for a hotshot programmer/designer out of Cal/MIT/etc. but not finance role. I work in FP&A at F20 and I would be amazed to find a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd year analyst hitting 100k.

The average Wharton grad with a desire for FP&A, accounting, BD, etc. would love to have a 90k salary, which is a 50% increase over the average Wharton graduating salary. Soo, good for you if you're making that!

 
whitemamba1309:
harvardgrad08:
Although I was part of another company's FMP (F500 tech co in the bay area), I would say that at least in my experience and those of my friends at other F500 tech FMPs, your description of the program differs from our experience in tech. From what I've seen at my firm and others in tech about 50% of FMP analysts end up in accounting / FP&A roles while the rest end up in M&A, strategy, biz dev, corporate treasury, etc. Additionally, at my firm the program has been around for about 7 years and out of the 140+ people that have gone through the program the ones that have left for MBAs (~25-30 people) have all gone to one of 7 schools Harvard, Stanford, Wharton, Booth, Kellogg, Tuck, and Berkeley. The ones that have left the company have pursued similar opps at rival tech co's., startups, or VC. Lastly, compared to GE's FMP our comp is significantly better most 1st year analysts make $90-100K all in and by your 3rd year or so you are usually making $115-125K all in. Which compared to banking is actually not bad since most of the time you work on average 40-50 hrs.

I'm calling BS on this. 100k all in for a 1st year FMP analyst? In your dreams.

You don't have to believe me if you don't want to but at my company a 1st yr rotation analyst makes 75k base + 10-20% bonus + 10-15k in stock...those are #s for this yr. as I'm leading our analyst recruiting at 2 of our target schools. And that is EOY comp not including anything from signing. For signing its usually 5k cash + 5k stock.

 

Glassdoor shows the salary between 52k and 62k with 500-3k bonus. I have a feeling it's probably in that range for Asia.

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer "Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee
 
Best Response

Regarding people that seem to hate FMP, what makes it SO unbearable? I'm curious because the consensus I've seen is that EVERYONE hates their entry-level jobs. I have friends who work at elite boutiques/BBs in i-banking who hate their jobs. I have friends who work at F100s as financial analysts and they hate their jobs. Big 4 accountants hate their jobs. Think consulting is glamorous/sexy? My friend at a big consulting (granted not MBB but still very respectable) hates his job and the politics involved in pandering to his clients' whims rather than what's good for the business. Hell, even the engineers I know who went into their field for the love of science/computers versus money hate their engineering jobs because their work is so marginalized in a large organization.

The thing I'm trying to figure out is are people in general just miserable/unhappy with their work and think the grass is greener? The people in high finance/business hate how stressful/competitive their jobs are and how they work long hours doing mindless crap like formatting PPTs. The people in "lower-tier finance" (so to speak) hate the fact that they make "no money" even though they have plenty of time outside of work to relax, stay healthy, etc.

I think it's more important to understand that entry-level work isn't going to be great, no matter where you are, and try to see the bigger picture as to what your work is trying to achieve/where your experience can take you. Sure, GE probably isn't THE place to be if you have goals of being a BSD PE/HF guy on wall street, but if you're interested in becoming the CFO of a company/division, working in FP&A within a company (maybe even corp dev if you crush it), GE/Big 4 are GREAT places to start. I've even seen people get M7 MBAs and then jump into consulting/IB from GE.

Not trying to chastise anyone, but I truly wonder what makes the job so unbearable that people want to quit within 6 months when other people would kill to get a spot at even the Big 4/GE, much less IB/Consulting. As someone who tried everything to get a job like that coming from undergrad (and had the grades/ECs to do it but didn't get in due to lack of pedigree/OCR/connections), I think a little perspective can do wonders for someone's happiness regardless of where he or she is working.

 
Accrual Dictator:
Not trying to chastise anyone, but I truly wonder what makes the job so unbearable that people want to quit within 6 months when other people would kill to get a spot at even the Big 4/GE, much less IB/Consulting. As someone who tried everything to get a job like that coming from undergrad (and had the grades/ECs to do it but didn't get in due to lack of pedigree/OCR/connections), I think a little perspective can do wonders for someone's happiness regardless of where he or she is working.

Also, you have to be very lacking in pedigree to get dinged with a 3.8+ and strong ECs. Honestly, I think you need some perspective here. What are the chances that these guys actually had other opportunities in a field they were interested in, but took the job at GE because it was billed as being in finance? If that was me, I'd be furious.

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer "Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee
 
D M:
Accrual Dictator:
Not trying to chastise anyone, but I truly wonder what makes the job so unbearable that people want to quit within 6 months when other people would kill to get a spot at even the Big 4/GE, much less IB/Consulting. As someone who tried everything to get a job like that coming from undergrad (and had the grades/ECs to do it but didn't get in due to lack of pedigree/OCR/connections), I think a little perspective can do wonders for someone's happiness regardless of where he or she is working.

Also, you have to be very lacking in pedigree to get dinged with a 3.8+ and strong ECs. Honestly, I think you need some perspective here. What are the chances that these guys actually had other opportunities in a field they were interested in, but took the job at GE because it was billed as being in finance? If that was me, I'd be furious.

  1. I don't think that's necessarily the case. I've seen plenty of kids who have shit grades from my school who got the few F100 finance jobs that recruited here because their parents worked at the company or they had other contacts. Getting a job today i's not as simple as get good grades, etc. and you're set. There's a lot of other factors that aren't always in your control. I did well in the areas I could control (interview, GPA, ECs), but unfortunately, in a tough job market, the chips just didn't fall into place. It happens. Regardless, this thread isn't about me and my issues with getting a job, so let's leave my situation out of it.

  2. I don't see what your point is. I really doubt there are that many GE FMP people that also had offers in investment banking, so I don't get what you're saying about how they took the job at GE because it was billed as finance. I guarantee most of them were probably upper-tier (not top X% who got IB/Consulting) kids from good schools who didn't have too many other options besides this and took it because of the brand name it would provide for an MBA/other opportunities in the future. Sure HR may have made the program sound sexier than it actually ended up being, but whose HR department doesn't do that? It's just marketing.

Really, I don't see why you're jumping down my throat and I think you missed the entire essence of my post. My point was really that the grass is always greener on the other side and almost nobody is fully satisfied with what their job at the entry-level even if they're in IB, which is supposedly more finance than accounting. I wasn't attacking anyone and even said that if one's goal was to be in PE/HF, GE isn't by any means the ideal starting, particularly if you already have offers in IB/Consulting. However, the program can still open doors in a roundabout way (i.e. use the extra time you would have spent in IB to crush the GMAT, do some ECs, etc. to get into a top MBA) to get you where you want to be and is an excellent place to start for those interested in doing some of the more interesting jobs in the corporate world.

What I meant by perspective is that some of the unhappiness maybe just be part of being at the bottom of the totem pole and getting stuck with all the mind-numbing crap the seniors don't wan't to do. This is the case everywhere and I'm trying to say that I doubt this is just exclusive to GE or other FLDP programs. I always believe there is something you can learn from whatever job you're doing, so it's important to focus on that rather than the shitty part of the job. I'm really just trying to figure out why people hate GE so much when their situation could be much, much worse.

 

People dislike it because their FMP/FLDP is a misrepresentation. They go in thinking they're going to be learning about and doing financial work, and instead they end up as, essentially, accountants. Great for future corporate jobs? Sure, but if you have any interest in working on Wall Street it's not going to help you.

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer "Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee
 

^Right. I would say that even if one wants to do corporate work, it'd be very foolish to turn down IB/Consulting because those jobs still open doors in the corporate world, plus you'll be more inclined to do finance-oriented work or more forward-thinking. Therefore, I think it really goes:

IB/Consulting >>>>> FLDPs/Big 4 >> Financial Analyst/Accountant at F500 > everything else as far as best positioning oneself for corporate work with IB/Consulting being best because they open the most doors (i.e. you'll have corp dev/brand manager jobs still open but you can also get into PE/HFs or high-tier public policy/econ development work as exit opps as well).

For those who can't get into IB/Consulting, however, and are probably more like me who are relatively laid back but reasonably ambitious/intelligent and mostly want to pursue a nice career that pays decently well (upper 1XX,000s once you get enough experience) that will allow you to have a better work-life balance in a cheaper metro, Big 4 and FLDPs aren't a terrible place at all to begin. Just know that the "F" in FLDP is a bit of a stretch as you will mostly be supporting the finance department at first and not doing the same work as some of your banker/consulting friends unless you get lucky. Stick it out, however, and you will meet your the goals stated above and be given more interesting tasks after proving yourself worthy.

 

So... OP got a job in corporate finance, found out it's not banking, and decided to whine about it?

Does any of this have to do with GE? Or is he just mad because that's where he happened to be?

Also, OP is wrong about how leadership programs are viewed internally. Most of the good managers in finance were once FMPs, so they aren't just pretending to support the program. They're bought in.

 

op is right. let''s be real, most work under the finance umbrella is boring as hell, even at higher levels. you're not the front line of the business - even financial planning work can seem very peripheral...

that said, if your degree didn't develop any hard, technical skills or your profile is lacking in some respect, it's still one of the better options.

 
chimpout:
op is right. let''s be real, most work under the finance umbrella is boring as hell, even at higher levels. you're not the front line of the business - even financial planning work can seem very peripheral...

that said, if your degree didn't develop any hard, technical skills or your profile is lacking in some respect, it's still one of the better options.

I like how this guy is pretty much saying corporate finance is for those without hard, technical skills and profiles that lack... Wow.

 
Bankn:
chimpout:
op is right. let''s be real, most work under the finance umbrella is boring as hell, even at higher levels. you're not the front line of the business - even financial planning work can seem very peripheral...

that said, if your degree didn't develop any hard, technical skills or your profile is lacking in some respect, it's still one of the better options.

I like how this guy is pretty much saying corporate finance is for those without hard, technical skills and profiles that lack... Wow.

It's relative, I believe he means compared to those who get IB/consulting jobs.

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer "Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee
 
chimpout:
op is right. let''s be real, most work under the finance umbrella is boring as hell, even at higher levels. you're not the front line of the business - even financial planning work can seem very peripheral...

that said, if your degree didn't develop any hard, technical skills or your profile is lacking in some respect, it's still one of the better options.

So VPs of Finance, Division/Regional Controllers, Financial Managers, etc. who are responsible for assessing hundred million+ dollar projects/real options/budgets for their division aren't on the "front line of the business"? What exactly do you define as the "front line of the business"?

 
Accrual Dictator:
chimpout:
op is right. let''s be real, most work under the finance umbrella is boring as hell, even at higher levels. you're not the front line of the business - even financial planning work can seem very peripheral...

that said, if your degree didn't develop any hard, technical skills or your profile is lacking in some respect, it's still one of the better options.

So VPs of Finance, Division/Regional Controllers, Financial Managers, etc. who are responsible for assessing hundred million+ dollar projects/real options/budgets for their division aren't on the "front line of the business"? What exactly do you define as the "front line of the business"?

Well I get what he means with that. He's saying that corporate finance is always a support function. GE makes jet engines and microwaves, not financial products (ok bad example because of GE capital but you get my point...). Although in that context you'd want to be a microwave engineer to be at the "front lines" or I guess you could say sales is always front lines, so Walmart sales associate might be the way to go for him :). But if you're talking about making big decisions, corporate finance is almost always involved. Beyond the CEO, the CFO is almost always second in line, and the directors/VPs will often manage expectations and budgets that then trickle down to the actual business.

 
Accrual Dictator:
chimpout:
op is right. let''s be real, most work under the finance umbrella is boring as hell, even at higher levels. you're not the front line of the business - even financial planning work can seem very peripheral...

that said, if your degree didn't develop any hard, technical skills or your profile is lacking in some respect, it's still one of the better options.

So VPs of Finance, Division/Regional Controllers, Financial Managers, etc. who are responsible for assessing hundred million+ dollar projects/real options/budgets for their division aren't on the "front line of the business"? What exactly do you define as the "front line of the business"?

it's a support function, however you spin it. my job is largely planning and valuation - the finance managers do not make investment or operational decisions.

if that does not make it clear, here are some examples of roles 'at the front line':

software engineer petroleum engineer trader

jobs that are not:

acccountant human resources janitor

and, yes, corp finance does not by and large involve hard, technical skills. you could put any bright graduate into most entry level roles.

 

^That makes sense, but really, no matter what job you're in, it's always going to be the engineers or CEO/CFO that's at the true "front lines" and even then, it'll mostly be after getting years and years of experience and climbing your way up. Hell, even the junior engineers only work on a small component of the end product. It's not like there's only one team designing the microwave. There will be a team selecting the materials, designing the hardware, one designing the software, etc. and the junior folk will get stuck with the rudimentary aspects of each component. Sure, the engineer ends up designing the microwave, but who gives the thumbs up and says that it makes sense to develop the microwave and sell it in India/China to establish brand presence in emerging markets? That would be the Controller/VP of Finance for the "Microwave" division or whatever GE calls it.

Even in Investment Banking, it's only the MDs really who are at the "front-lines" of the deal. No way does some 23 year old philosophy major from Yale make the final call on what deals to close. They just format the slides or do whatever the higher-ups making the decisions don't want to do.

 
Accrual Dictator:
Even in Investment Banking, it's only the MDs really who are at the "front-lines" of the deal. No way does some 23 year old philosophy major from Yale make the final call on what deals to close. They just format the slides or do whatever the higher-ups making the decisions don't want to do.

Eh, it's more the MDs and VPs. The associates generally get pretty significant client exposure. The analysts get some, depending on the group and how good they are.

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer "Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee
 

Nowhere did I say anything about EBITDA forecasts in that last post, but anyway, there's no debating this topic because it's clearly a matter of perception. Yes, finance is a support role, and I even acknowledged that in one of my posts, but it's still a vital support function to the lifeblood of a business. Businesses in the end exist to make money, and making sure that finances are being managed appropriately is more than just a "catering" type of support function to say the least. Furthermore, if you move up, you WILL be calling the shots on a lot of what the business does,

My argument in this whole thread has been more that people need to be careful about what a job description says on paper and what it actually ends up being. Chances are, unless you're insanely talented or find just a perfect opportunity, you won't be on the "front-lines" of any business, be it in engineering, finance, law, as an entry-level grunt. That's also why I kept emphasizing that the grass is usually always greener because from what I've seen, everyone has complaints about their job when they first start out.

 
Accrual Dictator:
Nowhere did I say anything about EBITDA forecasts in that last post, but anyway, there's no debating this topic because it's clearly a matter of perception. Yes, finance is a support role, and I even acknowledged that in one of my posts, but it's still a vital support function to the lifeblood of a business. Businesses in the end exist to make money, and making sure that finances are being managed appropriately is more than just a "catering" type of support function to say the least. Furthermore, if you move up, you WILL be calling the shots on a lot of what the business does,

My argument in this whole thread has been more that people need to be careful about what a job description says on paper and what it actually ends up being. Chances are, unless you're insanely talented or find just a perfect opportunity, you won't be on the "front-lines" of any business, be it in engineering, finance, law, as an entry-level grunt. That's also why I kept emphasizing that the grass is usually always greener because from what I've seen, everyone has complaints about their job when they first start out.

SBed. And I said EBITDA TARGETS not forecasts. Don't tell me setting a fiscal year EBITDA target doesn't have material impact on the business.

 
Accrual Dictator:
Nowhere did I say anything about EBITDA forecasts in that last post, but anyway, there's no debating this topic because it's clearly a matter of perception. Yes, finance is a support role, and I even acknowledged that in one of my posts, but it's still a vital support function to the lifeblood of a business. Businesses in the end exist to make money, and making sure that finances are being managed appropriately is more than just a "catering" type of support function to say the least. Furthermore, if you move up, you WILL be calling the shots on a lot of what the business does,

My argument in this whole thread has been more that people need to be careful about what a job description says on paper and what it actually ends up being. Chances are, unless you're insanely talented or find just a perfect opportunity, you won't be on the "front-lines" of any business, be it in engineering, finance, law, as an entry-level grunt. That's also why I kept emphasizing that the grass is usually always greener because from what I've seen, everyone has complaints about their job when they first start out.

pretty perverse interpretation of 'front line' work. of course real influence and autonomy only belongs to the experienced and successful...

only a tiny fraction of financial analysts will ever call the shots during their career, except if they make it to CFO level or transition out of a finance. perhaps a greater share if you think treasury work qualifies, but then it's an area of work quite distinct from the rest of the finance function

 
AsianMonky:
Engineer as front-line work? My dad's a Ph.D Mechanical Engineer specialist at GE/CAT/Deere and he feels that Finance dept controls him and has more power. By "calling the shots" you must mean designing a small part on the laptop for hours, that might not even be produced or be considered.

Along those lines, a quote from my biochemist friend at a major pharma company, "The finance department determines what drugs go to market and which ones get dumped, not the chemists." I guess corp fin is more like sitting at the pentagon than busting doors open in Iraq...

 
Bankn:
AsianMonky:
Engineer as front-line work? My dad's a Ph.D Mechanical Engineer specialist at GE/CAT/Deere and he feels that Finance dept controls him and has more power. By "calling the shots" you must mean designing a small part on the laptop for hours, that might not even be produced or be considered.

Along those lines, a quote from my biochemist friend at a major pharma company, "The finance department determines what drugs go to market and which ones get dumped, not the chemists." I guess corp fin is more like sitting at the pentagon than busting doors open in Iraq...

Also, at my internship I noticed that corp fin people had some sort of authority over engineers. Engineers would never, ever ignore an email from accountants because they are the ones that approve and give money for the engineering projects. This was at a very, very engineering focused and saturated manufacturing company.

 

i would not at all be surprised if the finance dept has more influence in the pharma industry.

my experience is in bigoil. we get to evaluate projects brought to us - that is, we crank out metrics for senior managers to use in their decisions, with the ultimate decisions made at HQ level after final analysis by a group that is in no way part of the finance function. almost all managers have a technical background

in any case, my issue is not really where the power lies. call me an idealist, but something appeals about actually creating things or identifying opportunities.

 

The main problem with disappointment in such programs is confusion by the applicant on what a Finance department at a F500 does. This doesn't just apply to GE it applies to all of F500.

The closest in my opinion one could get to IB/banking skills in financial services F500 is the risk department or the IBD if it exists (it exists at GE Capital).

Also corporate development but those teams are very high level, not going to comment on how to break into that but I wouldn't say the finance dept is the best way at all.

Business development (not to be confused with corp dev) in many F500 means sales/marketing/strategy type of senior role, not really connected to M&A.

Ideally imo to get into IB best way is after a highly analytical degree, get straight into summer analyst program by top bank then full time analyst in IB or PE. If you go into finance dept you're wasting your time, although accting is the language of business it won't get your anywhere near the type of activity u do in IB.

 

I completely agree with every single thing you wrote. I left a good job with great people at EY to take this job at GE as it was pitched to me as a fantastic opportunity to go overseas and progress in my career. Little did I know that it was all a hoax and now I work double as hard, for less reward in a culture that doesn't fit me. Thanks so much for validating what I felt about the company from day 1!!

 

Did you go into their audit group?

"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." -IlliniProgrammer "Your grammar made me wish I'd been aborted." -happypantsmcgee
 

Once you get placed in a business you are not able to change businesses but you get to change locations for each rotation. For example you might end up in Industrial but you can't switch out into say NBC or Capital. At the end of each rotation you are assessed and asked which group you want to go next within your business line. The program is designed for the geographically mobile and an excellent training ground for people who want to stay within the company as most of senior management has went through the program.

 

Thanks for all the responses so far.

I'd like to clarify a little bit further: I'm aware that you can't switch between GE businesses once you begin, and I'm aware that no matter which business you're in, you'll be required to relocate every six months or so.

Here's my issue: from the looks of it, for various personal reasons, the only GE business among whose locations I'd be okay with relocating is NBC - I'm ok with moving between NY, NJ, CA, and London. However, I wouldn't be able to relocate among the various locations of the other businesses.

So the original question: can I apply to a specific business, or do I have to just apply to the FMP generally and then if I get an offer, I'll be assigned to one of the businesses? Or if I can't apply to a specific one, would I at least find out which business I'd be in before accepting an offer (if i got one)?

Thanks so much

 
[Comment removed by mod team]
 

from the information you provided, I think GE is best for you---- you will learn a lot during the 2 years at GE and meet a lot of senior guys in renewable energy-- this experience will renewable energy will pay off in the future when renewable becomes big

 
monty09:
go the banking route.. will be good for you and better work product. GE is a good brand but lots of people leave to join my firm. not a lot of people are leaving my firm to join GE

I would second monty's statement.

Not that GE is a bad place or anything, but its more of an "average" corporate role when compared to IB. Of course IB isn't the end-all-be-all, but to me you have a better chance of doing exactly what you want to do in the future at the IB (although at a more junior level) where as the GE gig has always struck me as more of a corporate finance role (treasury, audit, etc) and could lead to what you want to do but with a lower probability and likely at a slower rate.

Regards

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan
 

Be a banker. If you can't get into IB then GE would be a good fall back option. I looked into the program, it's impressive for sure. The GE name opens up doors, you'll work less hours than IB (with less pay). From what people tell me, the GE program discourages going off to grad school after 2 years, they basically want to train/educate you so you'll stay with them long term. If you want to be with GE then it's great. If you want exit opps, go with BB for sure.

 

Thanks for your feedback guys. BB seems to open more doors/move me up faster. GE doesn't seem like a bad thing to have in the backpocket if things don't workout in BB tho.

Thoughts on the level of competitiveness/difficulty to get into GE FMP given background as 3.8 at a mid-Ivy + decent internship experience?

 

Getting in to FMP with that background should be comparatively easy, but it will as usual be about how you do in interviews - you'll definitely get an interview. The other issue is that if you focus on GE FMP, you're limiting yourself to one firm and thus one chance, whereas if you go for IBD you can at least afford to make a few mistakes.

 

The FMP is unlikely to involve much treasury/audit work (unlike stated by posters above). You would probably end up doing more FP&A and operational finance. You also have no guarantees to be working in cleantech/renewable energy either with GE or IBD. The FMP is a rotational program and you could be placed/rotated through any GE business (even within GE Energy there are non-renewable divisions). Likewise, with IBD the firm's resource needs will trump your preferences. I'm not saying that either GE/IBD won't take your preferences into account... it's just not a "sure thing".

 

Go banking. Once you finish your 2-3 years you can head to PE, fund, finance shop, or corporate finance (GE's of the world) in the renewable energy space.

In my experience, GE FMP is considered prestigious by GE finance people & not really considered by the rest of the world. Where as checking the box of being an analyst at a BB firm means superior financial training by all companies in the Fortune 500.

All the best;.

Professional Bro, J. Cans
 

I agree with most of the above. GE FMP is solid experience and possibly the best non-Wall St. related option for a finance grad. However, Wall St. doesn't give a shit about it.

Also, GE seems to pride itself on not targeting Ivy League kids. Lots of people go there from reputable schools, but nothing awesome, i.e. Florida, Wake, etc. That says something.

IMO, banking sets you up for literally anything in finance. Much easier to go from JPM to GE than vice versa. If you are interested in renewable energy, why not look at a smaller shop that specializes in that? if they have any street cred, they probably pay more and you'll get a better experience I think.

 
PaperTrail:
Also, GE seems to pride itself on not targeting Ivy League kids. Lots of people go there from reputable schools, but nothing awesome, i.e. Florida, Wake, etc. That says something.

What exactly do you think that says? If you were GE, would you rather hire a kid from Wake who has the equivalent smarts and is hungry for the job OR hire a Wharton kid who feels entitled to be CEO in 2 years?

kote:
Banking trains for you analysis while FMP will train you for management. Bankers get hired by companies in business development or treasury type roles. GE alum are hired as general management line execs.

Good summary.

 

First of all, no one in FMP has a 3.0. Those minimum stats are not the actual stats of FMPs in GE Energy. I know IBD interns from MS and GS who have turned down banking for FMP.

It all depends what you want to do though. Do you want to be a manager or a banker? If you want to be a CFO or run a company, FMP is your best bet. FMP > business school > consulting will give you great opportunities in general management or the ops side of PE etc, if you don't just stay in GE and become an exec that way.

Banking trains for you analysis while FMP will train you for management. Bankers get hired by companies in business development or treasury type roles. GE alum are hired as general management line execs.

Having said that, obviously, if you want to do banking, do banking. The pay is much better in banking among other perks.

 

Every FMP kid I know hated it. They all bailed on GE and went back to b-school.

********************************* “The American father is never seen in London. He passes his life entirely in Wall Street and communicates with his family once a month by means of a telegram in cipher.” - Oscar Wilde
 

I interned at GE for an leadership program a few years back. Not FMP, but partied with some other interns in FMP. They came from wide variety of backgrounds. Lots of Notre Dame, Trinity, State Schools, etc. mostly from accounting and a few finance backgrounds. I personally didn't like the structure of GE's program. It is 6 months rotational, but you do stay in the same business unit as far as I was aware, back then.

It can get kind of dull from what i observed. You are locked-in step for Two Years if you wish to stay the whole time, and then get hired on usually your last rotation. I would recommend IBD path as well.

----------------------------------------------------------------- Hug It Out
 

"Get hired" isn't really the right way to put it. All GE program members are guaranteed off-program roles. If you're Energy, you'll stay within Energy, Healthcare within Healthcare, etc. Corporate Audit Staff is also popular for FMPs after program.

It's not for everyone... but you really think banking is going to be more exciting work? That's one argument I haven't heard before.

 

All jobs are boring unless you're getting paid 7 figures to be an assassin. If you do FMP you're in line for becoming a GE exec.

If you do IB you will find yourself looking for a job in two years, there's only so many buyside shops and working for a hedge fund is like tossing dice.

So it comes down to how long you're willing to wait for money...5 years...or 15 years.

 

And waiting for a decade + waiting to climb a dreary corporate ladder isn't rolling the dice? It's no shoo-in, the very best out of FMP will go into the CAS (corporate audit staff) where they are constantly shipped around the world for long hours in very short rotations. People are continually weeded out. Not to mention that the OP has a strong interest in energy, GE hates people who have their own agendas, they want people that they can completely mold into the "GE way" of things. People have very little choice as to where / what division they are assigned to.

Not trying to say that banking is the best job (far from it), and GE is a great program for a certain kind of person, but I am assessing what is appropriate for the OP.

 

Do BB IBD and then try and do Corp Development for GE. If GE Energy doesn't have a dedicated team, after doing BB IBD+Corp Dev you should be able to role into Energy PE shops or GE Finance roles...........

 

GE FMP is a superior brand for bschools these days and a great differentiator in that area, however nothing beats an IBD analyst stint for flexibility going into other areas of finance. Do understand that a Natural Resource IBD group could still place you into say metals & mining, paper (some banks have this under industrials), etc which has nothing to do with renewables. Both GE and a BB can be a bit of a gamble in that regard.

 

I'd also be interested in hearing more on this.

People tend to think life is a race with other people. They don't realize that every moment they spend sprinting towards the finish line is a moment they lose permanently, and a moment closer to their death.
 
freeloader:
No, FMP is not a particularly good route for MBA, mostly because GE does not encourage MBA and tries to make FMPs lifers. Basically, you can expect to little to no support from your managers etc for MBA, which makes asking for recommendations and etc difficult. No saying it can't be done, but the culture doesn't help you out any.

Thanks! I understand GE does not encourage MBA but do you think that it is good enough to get into a good MBA? Is it prestigious enough? Or do I have to do Ibanking to make it out into a top b-school?

 

you should look at the statistics for the top bschools. HBS breaks it down by pre-MBA industry. only something like 17% of their recent MBA classes have come from financial services backgrounds (which includes i-banking, but also investment management, trading etc.). i would just focus on doing something you can excel in and get good recommendations.

People tend to think life is a race with other people. They don't realize that every moment they spend sprinting towards the finish line is a moment they lose permanently, and a moment closer to their death.
 

Absolutely. Outside of Banking, the FMP is probably your best option and a very strong option. Getting into a Top 5 MBA program is also feasible granted you have good GMAT scores.

 

You will be fine.

Couple of things.

Don't think that just b/c you go through FMP you're admitted to b-schools though. If you're applying to top 10 school, everyone will be quite accomplished (self-selecting). Corporate Honors, dude, that's a joke & only means something to GE no where else.

Take the job. Work hard, & enjoy the experience. Maybe you'll never want to leave GE. Don't over think things.

Professional Bro, J. Cans
 

Or you could simply do GE FMP and use it to leverage into a place at a M-7 business school. You'll stand a much higher chance breaking into PE that way, since PE firms generally recruit from investment banks (via headhunters) and business schools.

 
Gekko_KKR:
Or you could simply do GE FMP and use it to leverage into a place at a M-7 business school. You'll stand a much higher chance breaking into PE that way, since PE firms generally recruit from investment banks (via headhunters) and business schools.

This is my intention if I enter the program. I have zero desire to stay at GE long term but FMP -> B-School or FMP -> Corporate Audit Staff -> B-School seems like a well trodden path. I know a lot of PE firms like the people they bring on to have prior investment experience and I was unsure about how FMP would look in terms of PE recruitment out of B-School.

 

I have a good relationship with the GE Capital guys and would consider interviewing any of their quality analysts. Although a bit disadvantaged due to lack of M&A experience, they do learn the ropes as it relates to finance and accounting, particularly corporate finance and capital raising.

Given how difficult it is to get a PE job after bschool even with prior PE exp, I would try to land a PE gig as a pre-MBA associate rather than try to get a post-MBA position. Once you have a year of experience under your belt at GE, I would start interviewing for lateral hire positions at investment banks and try to make the switch into IB. Whether you are successful or not, after your 2nd year as an analyst at GE or IB, i would start applying for pre-MBA PE positions. Megafunds are a stretch, but you could have a chance at MM PE funds.

 

Another route I've seen is GE FMP (mostly non-GE Capital)>PE Portfolio Company in a controller/CFO silo role>Sponsor, though obviously that's much less direct.

There have been many great comebacks throughout history. Jesus was dead but then came back as an all-powerful God-Zombie.
 

If you get the GE offer I would take it and never look back. Personally I have never seen GE FMP to IB (wtf). But I have seen GE FMP -> GE Capital FO role -> PE/HF/VC.

I have also seen IB -> GE M&A, busines dev, strategy and such.

If you want to do banking obviously try for your other 3 super days. If that doesn't work out, GE FMP is very legit. In fact there are some banks and all no-name boutiques I would turn down for GE FMP.

 
oldmansacks:
If you get the GE offer I would take it and never look back. Personally I have never seen GE FMP to IB (wtf). But I have seen GE FMP -> GE Capital FO role -> PE/HF/VC.

I have also seen IB -> GE M&A, busines dev, strategy and such.

If you want to do banking obviously try for your other 3 super days. If that doesn't work out, GE FMP is very legit. In fact there are some banks and all no-name boutiques I would turn down for GE FMP.

OK, Thanks for that. How is it viewed by top B-Schools? My ultimate ambition is HBS,

 
the_rainmaker:
Anyone care to explain why GE FMP experience is so highly valued? It seems just like any other F500 Finance BO job, but obviously im missing something...

No leadership development program at any F500 is back office. The leadership programs are used to groom future of these companies. The work you do affects the businesses directly either in cost cutting or revenue generation and ultimately the bottom line. Likewise GE is known for grooming great managers and executives, and gives you tons of responsibility at a very young age.

Lots of bschools look at experience at the top F500 firms as the same value as banking or so. Such examples are marketing at P&G/Pepsi/Unilever, GE or Exonn Treasury.

 

I'm in a very similar situation myself. I have a few friends that have started or are starting the 2-year rotation soon. From what I've been able to gather, exit to PE and top B-Schools is good but is discouraged by GE because they like their FMPs to stick around for the long haul.

 

here's a career path for you:

STEVE MCLAUGHLIN

GE FMP ---> GE Corporate Audit Staff ---> Wharton ---> Goldman Sachs TMT ---> Founder of Financial Technology Partners

Money Never Sleeps? More like Money Never SUCKS amirite?!?!?!?
 

Awful or not, you need to learn the business from the ground up. Those are the very things that a CFO/CEO does to create catalysts in a Hedge Fund manager's valuation model to turn around companies.

Short term management of your cash at a large company is very key in lowering your transaction costs, managing your credit and cash needs while your growing is key. Exonn is historically known for its treasury divison and the magics they do. Pick up any book on distress investing/bankruptcy or working capital management and you will see how important this function can be.

Yes, if you end up in Auditing/SOX/Accounting it could suck, but you still learn the books from the inside out. Then when you become an observer from the outside you can find those differences between firm A and firm B.

As for financial planning/Forecasting/Ops Analysis/Capital budget that is what effects the business short-term and long-term decisions. Jamie Dimon made his career being an operations specialist that is where he found efficiencies and helped create Citigroup to what it became that is what he installed at JPM and made what it is. Mark Hurd turned around HP and its stock for 2 years by coming in and instilling good cash management/treasury activities and operations analysis.

A financial analyst at J&J in forecasting, would be helping the marketing teams to hit their yearly targets through a good plan. The very ratios/targets Wall Street looks for these folks are creating a plan to hit it.

Just cause your doing the work at the ground level and not 900 feet up which is what a valuation model is, do not discount how important some of those day-to-day decisions are. Otherwise those so called "assumptions" in the analyst model never come true, leading to them to sell off that stock.

 

Are we talking a commercial bank or an investment bank?

Does an investment bank have a manufacturing plant? Is there is any real marketing done? Do they really sell true homogeneous products? Does anyone really give a shit about operations or risk? Do investment banks work with any tangible goods?

Wall Street wants one thing from Investment banks, plain and simple and that is high profits and continuous high revenue growth. The only way to truly generate revenues at that pace, is to hire the best people and hope they know what they are doing. In this case the front office is truly where 95% of the value lies.

At a F500 like a P&G or GE, where your dealing with a real tangible good. You need CapEx to grow the business, you need manufacturing plants, you need delivery trucks, you need marketing to reach your customer, you need sales to target the right places to sell your product. Example P&G has a new product they introduce, it's widely successful more than they thought but now the Walmart is upset because they can't keep up with the orders, which is costing Walmart's rep and relationship with P&G. Does P&G spend CapEx to make a new plant, do you decommission some products at the plant to make new space for the new one, how much of your sales target is this new product, what are its margins etc...All those questions have financial implications and the strategy planning finance team has to assist the business to solve them.

Does an investment bank ever deal with the same decisions that directly affects its bottomline? Besides the traders/banking sucking ass? How is the back-office magically going to make them better?

Therefore the same job at P&G could have major responsibility and major implications to the bottlom line. While over at the investment bank has no real impact to the bottom line, since the traders suck ass or some dude went rogue and blew up the trade book.

 
marcellus_wallace:
Are we talking a commercial bank or an investment bank?

Does an investment bank have a manufacturing plant? Is there is any real marketing done? Do they really sell true homogeneous products? Does anyone really give a shit about operations or risk? Do investment banks work with any tangible goods?

Wall Street wants one thing from Investment banks, plain and simple and that is high profits and continuous high revenue growth. The only way to truly generate revenues at that pace, is to hire the best people and hope they know what they are doing. In this case the front office is truly where 95% of the value lies.

At a F500 like a P&G or GE, where your dealing with a real tangible good. You need CapEx to grow the business, you need manufacturing plants, you need delivery trucks, you need marketing to reach your customer, you need sales to target the right places to sell your product. Example P&G has a new product they introduce, it's widely successful more than they thought but now the Walmart is upset because they can't keep up with the orders, which is costing Walmart's rep and relationship with P&G. Does P&G spend CapEx to make a new plant, do you decommission some products at the plant to make new space for the new one, how much of your sales target is this new product, what are its margins etc...All those questions have financial implications and the strategy planning finance team has to assist the business to solve them.

Does an investment bank ever deal with the same decisions that directly affects its bottomline? Besides the traders/banking sucking ass? How is the back-office magically going to make them better?

Therefore the same job at P&G could have major responsibility and major implications to the bottlom line. While over at the investment bank has no real impact to the bottom line, since the traders suck ass or some dude went rogue and blew up the trade book.

THIS.

Money Never Sleeps? More like Money Never SUCKS amirite?!?!?!?
 
marcellus_wallace:

Does an investment bank ever deal with the same decisions that directly affects its bottomline?

From my experience, yes. They need to decide which products to grow, which desks to cut, which areas to focus on, where to house human capital, which new technology to invest in, which BO functions should take place in house/which ones should be outsourced... The list goes on. Limits are set on traders, groups that are determined not to have a large impact are downsized; all of which affects the bottom line.

Those who say any of these functions aren't important or relevant simply refuse to see the big picture. Why make an effort to recruit top students for these functions? I have experienced both this type of work in a BB(strategy/execution) and a F500 (FP&A). Based on what I have seen, the opportunities (both in terms of the work that was done and where people went afterwords) was much greater at the BB, even for those in "lesser" functions such as treasury, controllers or fp&a.

@ thebeegees, the awful comment was in reference to those unfortunate souls I met who came into a f500 hoping to do corporate development and ended up doing Sarbanes Oxley Testing. There's nothing particularly wrong with their job, but it is certainly not finance, nor anything remotely close.

Also, people tend to confuse bankers not giving a shit about a division with upper management not seeing their importance. Unless you're trying to get into ibd, whether someone in ibd cares about what you do is completely irrelevant.

 
U Accrete Me:
Guys, Let me begin by saying I am well aware that this has been a past topic. My question pertains to the current economic conditions, so let it be known I am not trolling. I am a senior at a Non-Target with a very high GPA, two previous internships at unknown boutique investment banks, and was president of my fraternity at school. Through building my massive network of bankers I've thus far secured three superdays, one at a BB and two more at well-known middle market firms. The networking that I have done has also led me to an MD at GE capital. We have an excellent relationship and he is willing to push for me to get into GE's FMP program by equally as much as I want to join it. Though GE's FMP program is certainly not a banking analyst program, from my understanding it seems that it is still well respected and can be an experience used later on to leverage into banking. My question is three-fold.

1) What is your view of GE's FMP program and can it act as a good platform from which I can later jump into banking? 2) Do you know anyone that has made the move and if so, was it difficult? 3) Given the current economic conditions (Hiring Freezes) and my non-target status, should I just take the opportunity in the program?

Thanks for the input guys.

Thought I'd weigh-in on original questions instead of the digressions.

(1) FMP->IBD - doable, but you will need to know exactly where you want to go. You definitely learn enough finance as a FMP to be considered technically sound (especially if you do modeling as part of a FP&A rotation). However, it sounds as if you already have done banking in some capacity, it seems a bit circuitous to go do FMP and back to banking.

(2) Know of a couple people have done this path, GE then later to MM / boutique banks. Don't think I know of anyone who went to BB.

(3) It depends. GE has a very unique culture, especially within FMP, in that they try to keep you as lifers. The senior finance leadership of GE is extremely homegrown, where some 70%+ of CFOs were former FMPs. It is easy for you to potentially get sucked into GE and have difficulty leaving afterwards.

 

I disagree in my experience management that handles trading is always former front office traders or sales guys. They run the show and tell everyone else to buzz off. Limits are only imposed when desks do not make $$$, if they are making $$$ the traders run the show. All high level decisions are made by the heads of trading and MDs, backoffice/hr etc has no say, they may work with them but the traders are the ones giving the barking orders. This basically makes the mid-office/back-office second class citizens because no one really listens to what they say unless the head of trading tells them to do so.

The backoffice at any BB is most likely replaceable, no one would care if someone left. While the FP&A team at like a Pepsi/P&G is most likely going to be very hard to replace if they just disappear.

Also I do not consider treasury at a BB or trading shop, mid-office it is usually front-office since its put under capital markets.

 
marcellus_wallace:
I disagree in my experience management that handles trading is always former front office traders or sales guys. They run the show and tell everyone else to buzz off.

You may be right. If the guys are constantly getting overruled, it would not surprise me in the slightest if they tried to downplay that aspect to the interns. That being said, a lot of these functions are at the corporate level and very far removed from traders. Whether or not we go through with an acquisition or devote my resources to expanding fund services instead of prime brokerage is not something that's about to be overruled by the head of a trading desk.

 

IBD SA

You're born, you take shit. You get out in the world, you take more shit. You climb a little higher, you take less shit. Till one day you're up in the rarefied atmosphere and you've forgotten what shit even looks like. Welcome to the layer cake, son.
 

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