Graduating with Latin honors?

I'm nearing graduation and have made little progress on my honors thesis to the point where I am strongly considering not doing it. If I complete it and it's good enough, then I would graduate "summa cum laude". If I don't, then I would graduate with "high distinction", which actually has a higher GPA cutoff.

I don't really care about the learning experience at this point and am worried about the stress. I'm also worried that I'll put in a bunch of work and end up not finishing it anyway. The only merit is that I go to a decent flagship state school but not Michigan or UVA, so it would be nice to have the signal. I'll be at an EB so I'm not too sure if the signal is important or if the latin is much more impressive than distinction. Anyone have any thoughts? Did you find an uninteresting honors thesis worth it for the title?

I appreciate the advice!

 
financevietnam:
My GPA is 4.48/5 (European school, equivalent to 3.7 in the US) and my school gives out High Distinction (equivalent to Summa Cum Laude) to people with GPA of 4.5 (3.75+ in the US) and higher. People with GPA 4.49 and below won't receive anything.

I'm thinking about doing an extra semester just to redo 1 course... Am I overthinking? Should I just get my degree and be done with it?

I mean, looking forward 3-5 years, leaving GPA on the resume seems ridiculous, while writing "Graduated with High Distinction" looks fine.

What year are you? Is this your senior year - getting a 5.0 this year isn't good enough?

"If you always put limits on everything you do, physical or anything else, it will spread into your work and into your life. There are no limits. There are only plateaus, and you must not stay there, you must go beyond them." - Bruce Lee
 

only if you wanna enter the academia (PhD or research-based MS programs)

Otherwise I'm 100% sure it doesn't matter at all for b-school. Plus, by the time you apply for MBA, you'd have plenty of work experience to talk about that shows ambition, independence and taking a challenge. Why waste your time? Go and have a blast on your last semester

 

From my understanding, you only get honors if you do a thesis - which who cares? i highly doubt someone will ask you about that.

"Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there" - Will Rogers
 

What ovechkin08 said. I took and passed Level 1 the first year after college(if you have a math and finance background it should not be too hard), but gave it up when I realized I did not want be a PM or in ER.

 

Benjamin,

What do you want to do?

Ovechkin, I will disagree with you a bit. If the role is some kind of capital management (bank, insurance company, etc), or heavy FP&A, the CFA does help a lot. It's not just for PM or ER.

At least this has been my first-hand experience.

(Disclaimer: I passed all three exams, and application for the Charter is pending).

 
Best Response

People get their analysis of the CFA very wrong. Kids who have never done it (but have read M&I WSO a bit) say it's useless for IBD etc... only good for AM. They ALWAYS fail to look at the alternatives, read the curriculum and will no doubt cite the "you should spend the time networking" line. That is bullshit, who is networking at 10pm? If you have the time (most do) there is no reason not to pursue it. You will learn something new, your knowledge of finance will improve - these are only good things. However, if you have the opportunity to gain real world experience (internship) or rebrand through a MFin take those options.

"After you work on Wall Street it’s a choice, would you rather work at McDonalds or on the sell-side? I would choose McDonalds over the sell-side.” - David Tepper
 
Oreos:
People get their analysis of the CFA very wrong. Kids who have never done it (but have read M&I WSO a bit) say it's useless for IBD etc... only good for AM. They ALWAYS fail to look at the alternatives, read the curriculum and will no doubt cite the "you should spend the time networking" line. That is bullshit, who is networking at 10pm? If you have the time (most do) there is no reason not to pursue it. You will learn something new, your knowledge of finance will improve - these are only good things. However, if you have the opportunity to gain real world experience (internship) or rebrand through a MFin take those options.
This is a very good point, and I will edit my previous comment by saying this: The knowledge you gain from the CFA is useful in many, many jobs in finance. The charter itself however, in my experience and discussions with people in the industry, is useful in very limited capacities. An IBD client does not care how many charter holders are working on their deal. Studying for and taking the CFA may (probably will) make you a better interviewer and add to your product and industry knowledge. But as Oreos said, there may be other opportunities to gain that same knowledge (MFin, internship) that make more sense for a particular professional aspiration.
 

I can't believe that I get Monkey Shit for this thread. To be fair, I am taking CFA Level 2 for my current job as Equity Research Associate covering Technology. I previously did IBD in Healthcare and Technology. I went to non-target schools (both undergraduate and graduate) without a stellar GPA. To prospective Monkeys, I want you to give you an honest answer so that you don't waste your time doing stupid things. I have been there and done that. This is my personal opinion and only for IBD and ER.

IBD. You don't need CFA. In fact every bankers that I talked to absolutely hate it. You want to nail an IBD interview, you need to do the following things: 1) Research about the group extensively, 2) Know exactly how to answer questions at informational, instead of saying hey I saw that DB did a deal for XYZ company on XYZ date. Be able to talk more specifically, why the deal was being done, how the deal was structured, and why the buyer is willing to pay at such premium. 3) Based on that group history, what are other potential deals that you think could happen, based on market dynamics. (and you know this because you studied about the market, talked to other people in the industry). 4) Actually bring a pitchbook that you have worked on. It can be a) Industry Discussion Material or b) Snapshot of the recent transaction. Look up on M&I on various kind of pitchbook. Doing all these will make it more likely to get hired than CFA. Been there. Done that.

ER. You can argue that CFA can helps in ER but not as much you think. When someone told me they are studying for CFA, all I can think of is, this poor kid spends a lot of time studying. To do ER job well, I want to see work samples. I want to know that you can apply directly what you have learned. I want to know that you can do the job well. I want to know that you can update, build models without me telling you how to do it. I want to know that you can follow the industry metrics, you know the industry growth drivers. You have some sense of valuation methods. And the only way for me to possibly assess you on this is by submitting a short summary of why I should buy or sell a stock. Of course having a full initiation report with models will definitely help. So when I list out all these steps, did I ever mention CFA? No.

The fallacy of studying CFA: pushing off networking because you are shy and you don't want to deal with people. I was one too. I used to push off networking like actually getting to know the Research Analyst (ER) and Banker (IBD). I have seen a lot of BO/MO and IT guys studying CFA, thinking that it will get them the front office jobs. It doesn't because application > learning. Networking > CFA. The reason is as followed:

When someone from IT tells me they are taking the CFA

Because talking to these guys (who are actually working in these roles) for 1 hour, you can learn so much more than reading on tons of books. They tell you exactly how the stock is being traded (ER) or why some deals don't fall through (IBD). You are not going to get the same depth of knowledge by studying CFA. Most importantly, you need to put a face on the resume. You need to know who the staffer is (IBD), how big the group is or how the team operates. Why? This will make it easier for you when you want to get a job there. Instead of going through HR, you can talk to staffer or business manager directly.

CFA is only relevant when you want to move up in the ER, Asset Management, Investment Management role. It is just a resume padder. The problem with CFA is it is a mile wide and an inch deep. There is no way that you can possible learn about structuring deals (IBD) or covering a sector (ER) by doing CFA.

So I rest my case. This is based on my personal experience while looking for a full time job. I actually talked to/cold called/ networked with over 600 people on Wall Street prior to getting my current position.

Picture Source: http://wheninfinance.tumblr.com/post/22291307647/when-someone-from-it-t…

"I am the hero of the story. I don't need to be saved."
 
Human:
The problem with CFA is it is a mile wide and an inch deep.
Great summation of the CFA, so true.

And a generally very well put post. It's often hard to garner the reasoning behind the structure of transactions (personally my favourite part of finance, the why not the what) from the press, and so talking to those who executed it is incredibly worthwhile.

"After you work on Wall Street it’s a choice, would you rather work at McDonalds or on the sell-side? I would choose McDonalds over the sell-side.” - David Tepper
 

Do you have any other options instead of hard core economics? If you aspire a career in trading, MSc. Financial Economics with a specialization in financial analysis would be better. Or maybe even MSc. Finance :-)

Another thing that might help; the CFA level 1 exam. If you can combine this with a relevant master degree then you're getting much closer to your goal :)

 

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