Graduating senior with no job offers

So I'm a senior at a target school with no FT job offers. Before I say anything else let me give you some of my stats:

GPA: 3.9
Major: Economics
Previous Internship Experience include: Junior Summer - DB Global Banking Analyst, Sophomore Summer - JPMorgan Finance Analyst, Freshman Year - UBS PWM

At this point, most banks are done recruiting for FT so I'm left thinking that I'm pretty much screwed now. What's worse is that I was a transfer student so I can't extend my graduation to do another summer internship. Anyone have any advice on what I can do now to get a FT offer in IBD before I graduate jobless and become a NEET?

 

Haha fortunately I'm not fobby or anything like that. I was actually born in the states and grew up here so no problems in that aspect. As for being personable or not, I will say this, all of my behavioral/fit interviewers really liked me. Most of them usually tell me that they really enjoyed our conversation at the end of the interview.

That said, I think my problem lies with the technical interviewers. Coming from a non-Finance background there is a limit to how much Finance and accounting I will know. Of course, I have read and studied all available outside guide and materials to prepare myself (including merger models and such), and so I can answer all the usual technical questions that most ppl get asked. However, I always end up with one technical interviewer who won't ask any typical questions like "how to value a company" or "tell me the difference between a levered DCF and a unlevered DCF."

Instead, they ask me questions like "why is using beta bad in CAPM" or "how do you estimate diversifiable risk" or "what do you look at when you are deciding whether to refinance a company through debt if they already have debt on their balance sheet?" Without actually having a degree in Finance or deep experience in banking, I don't really see how they can expect me to answer all of these questions correctly...

 
aznhades:
Haha fortunately I'm not fobby or anything like that. I was actually born in the states and grew up here so no problems in that aspect. As for being personable or not, I will say this, all of my behavioral/fit interviewers really liked me. Most of them usually tell me that they really enjoyed our conversation at the end of the interview.
No offense, but I wouldn't necessarily be so sure about this. It is simply just a polite gesture to say that they "enjoyed the conversation" - what else are they supposed to say? People tend to have a distorted perception of themselves so you may not realize that the "fit" might not be there due to your lack of confidence / refinement / polish. I am Asian myself and see a lot of my friends lack the required EQ, without them even realizing it. If your school has a professional development center, go in for a few practice interviews and ask for feedback on everything from your speaking style to your hairstyle to your clothes... You have a 3.9 GPA so you obviously sacrificed some social / intrapersonal development opportunities so I hope you don't act surprised...

I interview people and know tons of other people who interview. People we like (based on networking or if you are a hot girl) will tend to get pitched very softball questions ranging from a easy behavioral question to a simple lay-up technical question. People we don't like (based on usually a bad first impression) will usually get fucked around with and have to field very difficult technical questions / no-win behavioral questions.

The process sounds kind of harsh but such is life. The only way you can really mitigate it is to do a lot of networking and build up a lot of political equity before you even interview. By the time OCR interviews come, the interviews will have already made up their minds on who they want to hire based on the informational interviews. The chosen ones will get led / handheld with softball questions whereas all the other ones will get screwed with very difficult stuff.

My advice is for you to network more, if you haven't, and just get any good job you can. You can still go into banking through business school and it will probably be a lot easier / worthwhile to get a post-MBA banking gig.

 

What's your major / school?

Instead, they ask me questions like "why is using beta bad in CAPM" or "how do you estimate diversifiable risk" or "what do you look at when you are deciding whether to refinance a company through debt if they already have debt on their balance sheet?" Without actually having a degree in Finance or deep experience in banking, I don't really see how they can expect me to answer all of these questions correctly...

Do you really have no idea how to answer these questions?

 

I was able to figure the answers during the interview but not without help from the interviewer, which I suppose is what put me at a disadvantage when compared to Finance majors. Vault guides don't really have much info on these kinds of questions... As for school, I go to a target Ivy. Major is Economics.

 

If you can study hard enough to get a 3.9 in Economics from a target, I don't know why you wouldn't study harder for FT interviews in finance knowing you weren't going to have a FT job locked up going into senior year.

The reason they ask you those questions is probably because you have all those finance-related internships on your resume. I don't know what to tell you besides good luck and to do what you probably already know you need to do: network hard and know your shit better for next time.

 
lolbaringslol:
If you can study hard enough to get a 3.9 in Economics from a target, I don't know why you wouldn't study harder for FT interviews in finance knowing you weren't going to have a FT job locked up going into senior year.

The reason they ask you those questions is probably because you have all those finance-related internships on your resume. I don't know what to tell you besides good luck and to do what you probably already know you need to do: network hard and know your shit better for next time.

Not to demean anyone but I know plenty of people who get offers despite not knowing half as much as I do regarding the technical aspects of Finance (not to say that I know everything or even a lot, since I don't). The issue is that they don't get asked those challenging questions in the first place. If it is indeed like you suggested where I am asked more in-depth technicals purely because I have more finance-related internships on my resume, then perhaps it would have been better to not have included them on my resume. I took those internships to gain as much knowledge as I can, as early as possible, and to demonstrate my interest in Finance. That said, the first two internships I had weren't banking related so the technical skills I learned are quite different from those used in banking. As for the internship at DB, they provided accounting training but no where did we learn anything about why using beta is bad in capm, etc...

Look, I'm not trying to say that I'm not partly to blame for not getting any FT offers, because that just wouldn't be true. However, at this point, I would really appreciate any advice you guys can offer as to how to proceed from here on.

 
aznhades:
lolbaringslol:
If you can study hard enough to get a 3.9 in Economics from a target, I don't know why you wouldn't study harder for FT interviews in finance knowing you weren't going to have a FT job locked up going into senior year.

The reason they ask you those questions is probably because you have all those finance-related internships on your resume. I don't know what to tell you besides good luck and to do what you probably already know you need to do: network hard and know your shit better for next time.

Not to demean anyone but I know plenty of people who get offers despite not knowing half as much as I do regarding the technical aspects of Finance (not to say that I know everything or even a lot, since I don't). The issue is that they don't get asked those challenging questions in the first place. If it is indeed like you suggested where I am asked more in-depth technicals purely because I have more finance-related internships on my resume, then perhaps it would have been better to not have included them on my resume. I took those internships to gain as much knowledge as I can, as early as possible, and to demonstrate my interest in Finance. That said, the first two internships I had weren't banking related so the technical skills I learned are quite different from those used in banking. As for the internship at DB, they provided accounting training but no where did we learn anything about why using beta is bad in capm, etc...

Look, I'm not trying to say that I'm not partly to blame for not getting any FT offers, because that just wouldn't be true. However, at this point, I would really appreciate any advice you guys can offer as to how to proceed from here on.

I wasn't trying to be a dick. If you're posting here you've probably already beaten yourself up about not getting FT offers so sorry if it sounded like I was trying to pour salt in the wound. It's a shitty situation with the macroeconomic situation, but many people have been in your situation before and it usually comes down to networking your ass off and grinding hard for interviews, from what I've seen.

Besides that, maybe try studying for the CFA? It's a resume booster and sure to be good practice for the more in-depth technical stuff.

 
aznhades:
Not to demean anyone but I know plenty of people who get offers despite not knowing half as much as I do regarding the technical aspects of Finance (not to say that I know everything or even a lot, since I don't). The issue is that they don't get asked those challenging questions in the first place. If it is indeed like you suggested where I am asked more in-depth technicals purely because I have more finance-related internships on my resume, then perhaps it would have been better to not have included them on my resume.

Sadly that is true. I've never encountered any technical questions. Are you listing finance-related classes on your CV?

 

Have you considered an MSF and going through SA recruiting again? Puts you in the hole debtwise, but lets you stay in the states, and try to secure a SA position again, which you can hopefully convert to a FT offer. Do a search for the good programs. With a GPA like that you should have no problem, just take the GMAT now, which you should be looking into anyway.

Also gives you a better background in finance from a technical perspective, which you mentioned was why you got dinged.

 

When the interviewer asks you a question and you don't know the answer, don't answer at all. Don't BS, don't try to show him how much you know that still doesn't answer the question. Just be honest, say "I don't believe I can answer that. I haven't taken enough finance to answer that intelligently." That's it. They'll respect you 100x more.

 
NickTheRichard:
Maybe I'm misreading your OP, but it sounds like you did well enough in the interview during your junior year to land an internship. Obviously something happened during that internship that caused them to not extend a FT offer, right?

My junior internship was actually in DB's Tokyo office. Given the earthquake and tsunami disaster, deal flow really got disrupted in Japan and so they weren't very profitable for the quarter. That said, they fired about 7 senior bankers while I was there and even a few associates "left." To my understanding, they are more interested in hiring the associate interns instead of the analyst interns.

 
RonaldBacon:
people generally get asked a lot of technical questions if they act like they know everything and are very cocky...just saying. Maybe that might be the problem?

On the contrary, I try to steer the interviews toward my work experience more rather than trying to vainly impress them with my Finance knowledge. Never have I tried to act like I know everything because A) I don't know everything and B) I am well aware of the problems that would cause if I were to act cocky...

 
aznhades:
So I'm a senior at a target school with no FT job offers. Before I say anything else let me give you some of my stats:

GPA: 3.9 Major: Economics Previous Internship Experience include: Junior Summer - DB Global Banking Analyst, Sophomore Summer - JPMorgan Finance Analyst, Freshman Year - UBS PWM

At this point, most banks are done recruiting for FT so I'm left thinking that I'm pretty much screwed now. What's worse is that I was a transfer student so I can't extend my graduation to do another summer internship. Anyone have any advice on what I can do now to get a FT offer in IBD before I graduate jobless and become a NEET?

your problem is VERY obvious, given your high quality resume and experience....youre not networking and working hard enough to get FT. You should be able to get a job in your sleep.....

 
mfoste1:
aznhades:
So I'm a senior at a target school with no FT job offers. Before I say anything else let me give you some of my stats:

GPA: 3.9 Major: Economics Previous Internship Experience include: Junior Summer - DB Global Banking Analyst, Sophomore Summer - JPMorgan Finance Analyst, Freshman Year - UBS PWM

At this point, most banks are done recruiting for FT so I'm left thinking that I'm pretty much screwed now. What's worse is that I was a transfer student so I can't extend my graduation to do another summer internship. Anyone have any advice on what I can do now to get a FT offer in IBD before I graduate jobless and become a NEET?

your problem is VERY obvious, given your high quality resume and experience....youre not networking and working hard enough to get FT. You should be able to get a job in your sleep.....

Could you perhaps elaborate a little more on the specifics of networking and working harder? I've been networking for a while now and that has led to some first rounds. Typically I pass most first rounds but when it comes to super days, things just don't work out in the end. I feel like given the market conditions and the increased number of ppl looking for a job in IBD, recruiters are looking for and have the luxury of choosing those who are basically perfect in everything. So if you have even one tiny flaw or mess up even a little bit somewhere, that could very well put you at a disadvantage when compared to the other candidates. This is just how I feel though...

 
aznhades:
mfoste1:
aznhades:
So I'm a senior at a target school with no FT job offers. Before I say anything else let me give you some of my stats:

GPA: 3.9 Major: Economics Previous Internship Experience include: Junior Summer - DB Global Banking Analyst, Sophomore Summer - JPMorgan Finance Analyst, Freshman Year - UBS PWM

At this point, most banks are done recruiting for FT so I'm left thinking that I'm pretty much screwed now. What's worse is that I was a transfer student so I can't extend my graduation to do another summer internship. Anyone have any advice on what I can do now to get a FT offer in IBD before I graduate jobless and become a NEET?

your problem is VERY obvious, given your high quality resume and experience....youre not networking and working hard enough to get FT. You should be able to get a job in your sleep.....

Could you perhaps elaborate a little more on the specifics of networking and working harder? I've been networking for a while now and that has led to some first rounds. Typically I pass most first rounds but when it comes to super days, things just don't work out in the end. I feel like given the market conditions and the increased number of ppl looking for a job in IBD, recruiters are looking for and have the luxury of choosing those who are basically perfect in everything. So if you have even one tiny flaw or mess up even a little bit somewhere, that could very well put you at a disadvantage when compared to the other candidates. This is just how I feel though...

Interviews are a crapshoot; there could be a variety of any number of small things that could make someone ding you, which is why you have to get as many interviews as possible to maximize your chances. Once you have an offer in hand, you can afford to be more selective with the interviews you go to. Also, don't forget that everyone else on a superday essentially starts on the same footing; everyone else is more or less in a similar position so just do your best and let everything else sort itself out. Good luck, man.

 

Hmm. My friend from a lower ivy target got an offer from Barclays ibd with a 3.4 and 1 previous internship at a BB. He was also an econ major

"Look, you're my best friend, so don't take this the wrong way. In twenty years, if you're still livin' here, comin' over to my house to watch the Patriots games, still workin' construction, I'll fuckin' kill you. That's not a threat, that's a fact.
 

How many firms have you interview with? It may be purely bad luck. With those stats, and without any job offers, this could certainly be the case. Maybe apply to more banks/more areas.

I didn't say it was your fault, I said I was blaming you.
 

I would recommend to do number 3 (aim to get Level II by December) and number 5. In addition, expand the funds to prop firms.

Wait and see what happens... number 1 could be an option but that starts in the fall...

 

Not to bust your balls but given the # of areas you have been considering have you ever thought that maybe you came off as not having any idea what you want to do to recruiters? ---- Short story is a recruiter at a top MM told me after I didn't get an offer the reason I was ding'd was because they were not sure I wanted to be in banking as opposed to S&T, at the time they were correct as I had no clue what I wanted, when I stepped back and read into what each career entails, I decided IB was right for me.....there are a lot of boutiques out there looking for candidates at this time of year, have your considered sacrificing some pay just to get your foot in the door? After a year im sure if you network and have all the credentials outlined you'd be able to transfer into a larger shop.

its one way or the other: hate me or admire.
 

3) definitely do this, especially if you have nothing else on your plate. Level 1 is not difficult if you studied finance in undergrad

4) there are "random back office jobs" and there are back office jobs that offer decent opportunities for someone in your position. I wouldn't rule this option out just because of a general stereotype.

if all else fails, go be a navy seal. that can't hurt your resume.

 
ron paul revolution:
3) definitely do this, especially if you have nothing else on your plate. Level 1 is not difficult if you studied finance in undergrad

4) there are "random back office jobs" and there are back office jobs that offer decent opportunities for someone in your position. I wouldn't rule this option out just because of a general stereotype.

if all else fails, go be a navy seal. that can't hurt your resume.

Change your name immediately.

Don't do L1 its a waste of time. Especially in this environment its what everyone is turning to in order to make themselves more marketable while not realizing that that time is better spent networking, chasing down leads, and practicing your non-regional diction

 
ron paul revolution:

if all else fails, go be a navy seal. that can't hurt your resume.

If you're fine with working in NYC, military officer experience for a few years combined with target school education will get you into a top business school, and also make you a "diversity hire" target for banking and MBB. I hear this isn't the case in Europe though. You don't have to be a commando or aviator - there are plenty of infantry, surface warfare, and engineers too.

It also lets you work outside and play with cool hardware while learning to lead people. Pay is crap though.

 

Thanks for all the advice.

seabird, I don't intend to take that offer because I realized it's really different from what I want to do and not relevant at all. I don't understand what you are implying by saying that I should delete the post ?

In terms of MO roles, it was my mistake to not apply to any but at the time of recruitment I thought I had a great shot at FO, only finding out after I had already applied that many of the BBs weren't even hiring this year. Because they only let you do one application per year, this also shut me out of the MO applications.

I took extra care to make sure that all my applications to the different areas were tailored and read like I really wanted the role, so I dont think lack of focus was the issue... It simply boiled down to the fact a lot of BBs were hiring 0-5 analysts (not even exaggerating here) - I lost one of the jobs to an experienced hire and another one did not progress past first round after the headcount was lost for the position. I didn't apply to consulting this year, but it's just another option I have to explore now since as someone said, "beggars can't be choosers"

I'm not being choosy when it comes to boutiques or internships and would be perfectly happy with that, but have not had great luck with finding these either. I know doostang has a lot of posts but these are mostly in the US, which I don't have a work Visa for.

Is 1) not really a good idea? I will have to take about 10 courses to complete the diploma/certificate from a local university, and I feel like it will actually be useful for S&T and research which I'm more interested in. Also, I'm wondering if it will almost be like delaying my graduation and giving me a better shot at the next recruiting cycle?

Thanks again for all the suggestions !

 
Lily_1988:
Is 1) not really a good idea? I will have to take about 10 courses to complete the diploma/certificate from a local university, and I feel like it will actually be useful for S&T and research which I'm more interested in

why? I could perhaps make up a REALLY far-fetched argument for S&T.. but Research?

 
ragnar danneskjöld:
Raise some capital, start your own business and be your own boss.

Get you CFA or whatever you want to do to help pad your resume in the mean time...

A little entrepreneurial experience will never hurt your resume as long as you maintain your network.

what kind of business are you talking about... just curious as to what people would do if they were to actually start their business..

 

Am I missing something? She said she just finished her masters... why is everyone recommending more school? It's obviously not working out too well.

Your best bet is to talk to your finance professors first if they know anyone at boutique or MM firms. Talk to some of your friends who got offers and try to set up time to meet with them.

 
Lily_1988:
Haha

All joking aside, I can't afford more Masters degrees or an MBA right now-

Would a programming diploma not be useful for roles in market finance and make me a stronger candidate for next year? Most people don't seem to think it's a good idea.

No unless you want to be pigeonholed into being a programmer or something. Finance is in a bloodshed right now. If that's what you really want to do, keep searching and applying and do a combination of option 3 and 5 but also look for a FT consulting or something decent (option 4).

 
Lily_1988:
Haha

All joking aside, I can't afford more Masters degrees or an MBA right now-

Would a programming diploma not be useful for roles in market finance and make me a stronger candidate for next year? Most people don't seem to think it's a good idea.

I personally don't think that more school is a good idea. If you went to a target as you mentioned people would know that you didn't get a job. Studying on the side for the CFA might be good, but you still need something else. The thing about education is that you already have enough and your competition does as well. That is really not what will make or break you.Bottom line is work experience will be more valued at this point than further study. If you think you can find any decent work experience while you keep looking, great. Otherwise, go for the CFA plus some other activity and become a networking machine.

So I echo the advice given by other posters: focus on as few types of position as possible and network. And network properly. There are tons of resources online that teach you how to do it (plus you should reach out to friends, professors and mentors for advice on this). Even if you think you have a good handle on it, be humble and keep learning. Reaching out to people in the right way and presenting yourself properly will do more for you than more academic credentials. Reach out to everyone. Don't leave any stone unturned and follow up!

Acknowledge the official procedures and deadlines in your search, but ultimately you need to create your own opportunities. There must be some out there, you should get out there and try to find them.

Best of luck, man.

 
Lily_1988:
Haha

All joking aside, I can't afford more Masters degrees or an MBA right now

in Germany, Netherlands,... university is virtually free for EU citizens.

You could e.g. apply for a Master in Economics at Mannheim? They have an English track. http://master.vwl.uni-mannheim.de/

Also, while the job market in Germany has seen better days, It's actually not THAT bad. If you pick up the language in those two years you can work for Swiss banks as well.

 

You don't want back office?

Great back office doesn't want you too. As a matter of fact no body wants you. Otherwise,you would have gotten an offer.

Some people would kill to just get a job but the shit head is being capricious and he can't even afford his MBA yet.

A job is better than no job

No one would remember the Good Samaritan if he'd only had good intentions; he had money as well.
 

I understand its tough - but I can't help being pissed off by people like you who whine about lack of "luck" and being "cheated" out of a job.

My girlfriend graduated from a master at LSE and it took her 1 year to find a job in IBD - in the meantime she worked at Starbucks while networking like hell and applying to every single place in Europe, including places like Glasgow, Liverpool and Manchester. She got eventually got a 1 year placement at a BB (a few weeks short of getting kicked out of the country because of Visa status) but she didnt get an offer at the end of it. Again unemployed for 6 months. Then she got a spot at a small boutique (where I met her), later moved to a BB and 4 years on she works for the largest PE fund in Europe.

So my advice: 1. Stop whining and start behaving like a man 2. Start networking your ass off, and prepare for interviews and if you're so good as you say you are, you'll get the job you want. In the meantime, settle for something less i.e. BO or MO job, or unpaid internships in FO if you can afford it 3. Yeah its a recession but trust me it was 10x worse back in 2008, and people still managed. Stop finding excuses. 4. Tell you a secret about life - its not a box of chocolates. you can't always get want you want easily and sometimes, you will need to settle for something less glamourous or something you don't like as a first step to your dream job.

That said, good luck.

 
rastarocket:
So my advice: 1. Stop whining and start behaving like a man 2. Start networking your ass off, and prepare for interviews and if you're so good as you say you are, you'll get the job you want. In the meantime, settle for something less i.e. BO or MO job, or unpaid internships in FO if you can afford it 3. Yeah its a recession but trust me it was 10x worse back in 2008, and people still managed. Stop finding excuses. 4. Tell you a secret about life - its not a box of chocolates. you can't always get want you want easily and sometimes, you will need to settle for something less glamourous or something you don't like as a first step to your dream job.
THIS. SB. More people need to be blunt here instead of whining about the economy. You can't control the economy, it sucks, what are you going to do? Let's just keep pounding away at it, constantly improve your tactics and network -smarter- (not just -more-) do what you can to earn a living and move your way up. There's a Chinese proverb that goes, "Sometimes, you have to ride a cow in order to find a horse" - sometimes, you gotta take the less glamorous route as a temporary measure in order to achieve your end goal.

Btw, rothy's advice about the phone is major legit. Most of my interviews were through a combination of cold-emails + cold-calls. You sound much more convincing and hungry for the job when they can actually hear you as a living, breathing person on the phone than text on a screen.

Currently: future neurologist, current psychotherapist Previously: investor relations (top consulting firm), M&A consulting (Big 4), M&A banking (MM)
 
rastarocket:
I understand its tough - but I can't help being pissed off by people like you who whine about lack of "luck" and being "cheated" out of a job.

My girlfriend graduated from a master at LSE and it took her 1 year to find a job in IBD - in the meantime she worked at Starbucks while networking like hell and applying to every single place in Europe, including places like Glasgow, Liverpool and Manchester. She got eventually got a 1 year placement at a BB (a few weeks short of getting kicked out of the country because of Visa status) but she didnt get an offer at the end of it. Again unemployed for 6 months. Then she got a spot at a small boutique (where I met her), later moved to a BB and 4 years on she works for the largest PE fund in Europe.

So my advice: 1. Stop whining and start behaving like a man 2. Start networking your ass off, and prepare for interviews and if you're so good as you say you are, you'll get the job you want. In the meantime, settle for something less i.e. BO or MO job, or unpaid internships in FO if you can afford it 3. Yeah its a recession but trust me it was 10x worse back in 2008, and people still managed. Stop finding excuses. 4. Tell you a secret about life - its not a box of chocolates. you can't always get want you want easily and sometimes, you will need to settle for something less glamourous or something you don't like as a first step to your dream job.

That said, good luck.

wow. this story is amazing...

 

What rothy just said is crucial because we are dealing with a work situation that is specifically against us. Networking is the one and only thing that you can control....the more people you know the more likely it is for you to make it. I have literally built a network within ms, GS, CS, JPM, and brock all from scratch....I absolutely had none to start with and now i have over 30 connections there that are all vp, ed, md status....built it all within 5 months.....the point of all this is that you need to make your own "luck" and "opportunity"

Beast
 
Angelus99:
What rothy just said is crucial because we are dealing with a work situation that is specifically against us. Networking is the one and only thing that you can control....the more people you know the more likely it is for you to make it. I have literally built a network within ms, GS, CS, JPM, and brock all from scratch....I absolutely had none to start with and now i have over 30 connections there that are all vp, ed, md status....built it all within 5 months.....the point of all this is that you need to make your own "luck" and "opportunity"

Teach me... How the hell did you do this?

 
runningcitylikediddy:
keep on looking, dont give up

He will have to give up because he will never see what he is looking for. At least not in the next six months.

He wants a FO position but no FO wants him. Now he needs to settle with a McDonald job, earn some cash instead of being a couch potato and network to get a job.

No one would remember the Good Samaritan if he'd only had good intentions; he had money as well.
 

Not trying to be an ass or anything, but you must be doing something wrong. If you go to a target school, have good grades and got interviews but didn't land a job it's your problem. You can't blame it on luck or the economic situation, because that's the same for everyone and there are plenty of people getting jobs and many of them come from worse situations than you do. So what you need to do is find out what you're doing wrong (have you asked your interviewers?) and fix it, going to school or making more applications won't help, you'll just get rejected again because of whatever you're doing wrong. Stop making excuses. BBs are only hiring 0-5 analysts? Maybe apart from the ones they already have signed after the summer internships, and the fact that you're not one of them is your fault too. And I even doubt that, otherwise I know all the new analysts and my friends are extremely lucky.

As to what to do while you fix that, I think your best bet is getting a MO/BO role (if you can) and try networking from there. Worst case scenario, you'll have to go get an MBA after a couple of years to transition to FO. Consulting would be better, but there's no way you're getting an MBB consulting gig if you can't get into banking (again, not trying to be an ass, but you seem a bit out of touch with reality)

 

Take up the offer you have on hand. Trust me, people would worry more about the gap on your resume rather than whether you worked FO/BO/MO.

I graduated three years ago and I am still unemployed. Have been supporting myself through doing various IBD placements. Took alot of networking. None of them led to an offer (for various reasons). My work permit situation didn't help either - I have to pretty much go for the large well-established firms who were in a position to sponsor me.

I can't tell you the number of sleepless nights I have worrying about my career/financial situation. I had the opportunity to work in a much less glamorous job, but I passed it on. Obviously, I wish I hadn't done that now. So, think twice about turning anything down.

I have pretty much ditched m&a, and focusing on other things now (think I have a month before I have to leave the country!). But it took awhile for me to reach that state of mind.

Good luck anyway.

rastarocket: nice ending to that story. hopefully something nice like that happens!

 

Hey thanks for the advice everyone. I realize I may have come across the wrong way - I'm not trying to sit here and whine about the economy and taking off all the blame from myself. I'm asking for suggestions on how to keep plowing on and increase my chances for next year, and I'm explaining that in a normal year I would have a much better chance based on my credentials. I've had many friends and contacts in the industry look at my resume, and they all said I'm a strong candidate but the UK market is horrible.

And some of your criticism is a little harsh and unwarranted in my opinion:

True I didn't get converted after the internship , and I have explained the reason in another post- I worked my ass off and did get good reviews and an offer but it was later withdrawn due to the market downturn. That was really difficult but I sucked it up, got back on my feet and went back into the recruiting game. Can you blame me if I attribute that to a bit of bad luck?

I'm assuming you are mostly recruiting in the US- It 's a fact that recruiting is a lot better right now in the US than the UK. It is a matter of fact that many BB FT programs are not recruiting, and even people I know with 1+ year experience are applying for INTERNSHIPS . I have heard many recruiters and job searchers in the UK echo the sentiment that this is as bad as 2008 (if you don't believe me please check efinancialcareers articles). Very few people are getting interviews/offers even from my target school this year.

It's not just me in this situation I know, so I DONT intend to just sit here feeling sorry for myself.

As I said, I went to an interview with a BB but lost the position to an experienced hire (I don't think that's a problem with my interviewing ability as the team liked me) and another one where the final round was cancelled due to the market downturn. I'm also on hold at one BB after final round because although my other interviews were strong, I just couldn't click with one of the interviewers even though I tried- this is my own fault and I'm not blaming anyone or anything else for it lol.

Many of you are saying stop whining and start acting, but that's PRECISELY what I'm trying to do do! I'm trying to get the advice on the best things I can do to fill my time and my resume from you experienced people here.

I have started cold calling. I'm definitely not whining about having to cold call or put in the extra work or work for free and I'm not gunning for just BBs! - I am NOT being a couch potato and I'm actively trying to network while also working a contract job to support msyelf (which I dont intend to put on my resume), so please don't attack me based on false conclusions. I decided not to take the offer I had (that was akin to a backoffice job) because I thought that doing more schooling + doing research +(hopefully) doing an unpaid internship at a boutique would look better in the long run and I'm willing to live very frugally and work odd part-time jobs to support myself while I do that. Some people here and my friends in FO make the BO sound like the kiss of death when it' a full-time job, which is why I was very hesitant to take that offer.

Anyways I do appreciate all the good advice! Just felt compelled to defend myself against false accusations and misunderstandings so please don't take this the wrong way. Thank you all :) I wish all of us who are still recruiting the very best of luck!

 

most times, when somebody said "we liked you but had a better candidate", its because people are being politically correct (especially in the UK). Ask them what your weaknesses were (more diplomatic way of asking why they didn't take you) and you can try to work and focus on those points. Ask them about your strengths as well to get some well needed ego boost.

For networking, in the UK, calling people doesn't work as well as sending emails - use linkedin and get introduction from friends. Also, try to talk to hedge funds in London - there are thousands of them and some of them are doing extremely well. But DO NOT mention that you are unlucky / finding a job is hard / how many calls you made because there is big chance that they've been through much worse than you.

Lots of the jobs are not on efinancials - forget efinancials, I never ever got a job through a headhunter. They are only useful for lateral moves for experienced people or for people with spotless CVs.

I talked to a kid like you 6 months ago and he settled for a BO job at MS. I think its a neat place to start your career, at least for your first year. If your background is so good, you'll end up in FO in no time. But as I said, if you can get a unpaid internship in FO, I would definitely take that over a BO job,

 
rastarocket:
most times, when somebody said "we liked you but had a better candidate", its because people are being politically correct (especially in the UK). Ask them what your weaknesses were (more diplomatic way of asking why they didn't take you) and you can try to work and focus on those points. Ask them about your strengths as well to get some well needed ego boost.

For networking, in the UK, calling people doesn't work as well as sending emails - use linkedin and get introduction from friends. Also, try to talk to hedge funds in London - there are thousands of them and some of them are doing extremely well. But DO NOT mention that you are unlucky / finding a job is hard / how many calls you made because there is big chance that they've been through much worse than you.

Lots of the jobs are not on efinancials - forget efinancials, I never ever got a job through a headhunter. They are only useful for lateral moves for experienced people or for people with spotless CVs.

I talked to a kid like you 6 months ago and he settled for a BO job at MS. I think its a neat place to start your career, at least for your first year. If your background is so good, you'll end up in FO in no time. But as I said, if you can get a unpaid internship in FO, I would definitely take that over a BO job,

Thanks ratarocket! I make it a rule to always ask for feedback after interviews, and know what my strengths are and have tried to improve upon my weaknesses. In terms of the job I lost to an experienced candidate, it was not a a graduate position but an ad-hoc role (the BB is not hiring for graduate FT roles this year), so I think that was actually the reason as I was told honestly that they were taking someone with experience instead.

My concern about BO is that people here and my friends in FO always make it seem like you will be labelled "BO" forever. It's not that I think I'm too good for the job but that is what worries me - have you not found that to be true in your experience?

Your girlfriend's story is extremely encouraging! Did she encounter any problems in terms of justifying her gaps in her CV while she was working at Starbucks when she was gunning for a BB job a year after her graduation?

 
rastarocket:
I talked to a kid like you 6 months ago and he settled for a BO job at MS. I think its a neat place to start your career, at least for your first year. If your background is so good, you'll end up in FO in no time. But as I said, if you can get a unpaid internship in FO, I would definitely take that over a BO job,
I'm not sure this is good advice. My friends who settled for BO in 08/09 found it impossible to get out. It seemed those who waited and kept trying (usually doing Masters etc) had much much better results than those with identical CVs bar the 1yr BO stint. It really is ridiculous how quickly BO pigeonholes you. The only firm that seems to give BO guys a chance in FO hiring is Citi.
Awon Eleyi Awon Eleyi Won Bad Gan:
How long can you do #2 for? Might be worth doing that and applying for grad spots again next year, while diversifying into consulting this time
OP, I posted this earlier and am surprised you (and everyone else in this thread) ignored this option completely. I actually think it's the most desirable option you have.

As for the rest of the comments, I think people are seriously underestimating how bad the hiring situation is in Europe this year. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say FO grad hiring is down 50% at the minimum. @Rasta, I think it's useful to note that while your gf's efforts at getting a job were commendable, given that she's done an IBD + PE stint since then, it sounds like she broke in before shit really hit the fan. The role luck plays in all this is tremendous, but as they say, luck is what happens when preperation meets opportunity.

 

well I started in BO, but moved out rapidly. Its true that is is very hard to break out from BO to FO, but it depends on the company. Also depends on your age and if you are young enough (IBD or Corporate Banking, Structured Finance ,etc. or even some research work with smaller places, or consulting work. Not for your teacher though, but for a proper corporate or city institution. This is a much easier sell for a S&T job later on. Another friend of mine went from big 4 audit into FX trading so also have a go at big 4. Competition is fierce and the economy is bad - so you just need to go off the beaten path. But seriously, knock on the doors of the thousands of hedge funds out there, there must be a place in need of free labour somewhere.

 

have you tried places like M&G, the London Stock Exchange (excellent graduate programme for a potential move to S&T), the Ratings Agencies, and all those brokers Marex, Numis, Charles Stanley,etc. there is an entire world besides bulge brackets and banks ... and there is always the MBA option if you can't find a great job in the short term. Even go work for Bloomberg or Mergermarket and build a finance network and a great MBA story!!!

 
rastarocket:
have you tried places like M&G, the London Stock Exchange (excellent graduate programme for a potential move to S&T), the Ratings Agencies, and all those brokers Marex, Numis, Charles Stanley,etc. there is an entire world besides bulge brackets and banks ... and there is always the MBA option if you can't find a great job in the short term. Even go work for Bloomberg or Mergermarket and build a finance network and a great MBA story!!!

Yes I've been exploring other options as well and applying whenever I have time. I am now considering IBD, IM and consulting ECM/DCM Structure Finance and whatever else since S&T recruiting has been especially bad. I'm just going to keep on sending in applications and hope that it works out! Thank you so much for all your advice. Truly appreciate it !

 
Relinquis:
Have you thought of join a relevant professional society in order to attend their conferences / talks? They are useful to keep in the loop on what's going on in the industry, to meet people and learn about firms that you have never heard of etc...

That sounds like a great idea. Can you give me an example of the types of societies I can join ?(exclding CFA since that will require me to get chartered first).

 

You should be able to join the CFA society in the UK as a "candidate" member or as an IMC member if you have done the IMC.

In real estate (my sector) there is the Investment Property Forum, but I doubt that that is useful to you. Perhaps there is an equivalent for sectors that interest you.

It might be useful to check out other conferences related to your area of interest, e.g. alternative investments, hedge funds, distressed investing, etc... These are organised by various different groups (IMN, etc...). A quick google search should show you which firms attend these. If you're not able to attend, at the very least you'll have an idea of what firms to target. Also, check out albourne.com

 

Thanks Awon,

I think I can do it for about half a year if need be, since I do have a contact. If I do this together with taking a course and studying for the CFA, would the gap on my CV be justifiable? (ie. Am I doing enough to justify that I'm not employed full time?) Laziness is not one of my faults contrary to what many people here seem to be suggesting, and I will do whatever I need to do to give my resume the maximum impact for next year.

Thanks for the unique perspective. One of my former classmates took a BO role and he already seems to have been pigeonholed in, and that scares me.

And thanks for your understanding about the situation in Europe. I'm not saying that I'm a complete victim of the market, but people who are putting me down here do not realize just how bad the situation is in Europe compared to the US where recruiting is actually happening. I essentially had one shot, since the other 2 interviews were lost causes due to the reasons mentioned above. Even this is relatively good compared to a lot of ppl who would usually be qualified but who could not land any FT interviews. Everyone is suffering in Europe.

 
Lily_1988:
Thanks Awon,

I think I can do it for about half a year if need be, since I do have a contact. If I do this together with taking a course and studying for the CFA, would the gap on my CV be justifiable? (ie. Am I doing enough to justify that I'm not employed full time?) Laziness is not one of my faults contrary to what many people here seem to be suggesting, and I will do whatever I need to do to give my resume the maximum impact for next year.

Thanks for the unique perspective. One of my former classmates took a BO role and he already seems to have been pigeonholed in, and that scares me.

And thanks for your understanding about the situation in Europe. I'm not saying that I'm a complete victim of the market, but people who are putting me down here do not realize just how bad the situation is in Europe compared to the US where recruiting is actually happening. I essentially had one shot, since the other 2 interviews were lost causes due to the reasons mentioned above. Even this is relatively good compared to a lot of ppl who would usually be qualified but who could not land any FT interviews. Everyone is suffering in Europe.

I don't see why there will be any major gap in your CV if you graduate this summer and work as the professor's assistant for 6 months till end of the year/jan 2013. That would be more than enough to qualify you for grad hiring in aug-dec. In the mean time, you can start preparing for consulting case studies as well as normal prep for the banking interviews. In the mean time, you can start reaching out to consulting alums.

Also, I think you should ignore the CFA + random other qualification comments. They won't help you at all.

 

Hi Lilly,

In terms of enhancing your ed. profile, I would recommend you take IMC exam and CFA Level 1 or ACA Level 1 thereafter. Obviously MBA is overly expensive especially considering that you have just finished uni and would therefore naturally not maximize the full MBA experience.

In terms of Work Experience, unless you have a decent contact to sort you out with a well respected job, I would suggest that you consider and business ideas in order to take advantage of London Olympics 2012 (I assume you are living in London!).

You should also keep on top of networking and perhaps consider a voluntary organisation for short period.

Finally as a word of encouragement, I can assure you that there remains adequate demand for talented graduates across banking in London, however a contact would undoubtedly speed this process up for you.

Let me know your thoughts and I hope this helps.

 

Lilly, I think that the research plus the CFA should be enough for your resume, especially if the professor is from a reputable institution. Just make sure that you will have something to show for the time spent with him. People often ignore that it is not only the where you are doing something or the general description of it, but actually your achievements that will help your recruiting efforts. Of course you need to network.

Another recommendation is to stop thinking about "next year." You should be trying to recruit off-season. If you don't achieve anything then you can prepare for the next application period. In short, don't put your professional ambitions on hold for the next round of formal recruiting. I've met plenty of people in finance that got their jobs off-season because they happened to call the right person at the right time. I am not saying that this will happen to you, but you need to try.

 
Ash_nash:
Lilly, I think that the research plus the CFA should be enough for your resume, especially if the professor is from a reputable institution. Just make sure that you will have something to show for the time spent with him. People often ignore that it is not only the where you are doing something or the general description of it, but actually your achievements that will help your recruiting efforts. Of course you also need to network.

Another recommendation is to stop thinking about "next year." You should be trying to recruit off-season. If you don't achieve anything then you can prepare for the next application period. In short, don't put your professional ambitions on hold for the next round of formal recruiting. I've met plenty of people in finance that got their jobs off-season because they happened to call the right person at the right time. I am not saying that this will happen to you, but you need to try.

 
Awon Eleyi Awon Eleyi Won Bad Gan:
No one is getting hired off-season at the moment. Banks are using a "wait and see" approach to see how things play out with Europe.

Not Europe, but recently spoke to a number of firms in Hong Kong that are also using the wait and see apprach that you describe. They said that by March, April they will have more clarity, once they see Q1 results.

I am not saying that the OP will surely succeed at getting recruited off season, rather, I am saying that he needs to attempt it. As he networks and talks to people he will understand the job market better. By better I mean at the specific firm level, which is what he needs. And you never know when an opportunity might spring up, whatever form it might take.

I agree that the OP needs to be realistic, but he/she needs to forget about recruiting statistics and go for it!

 

The UK IB market / recruiting is extremely peculiar. As London is the main European (not only EU) financial centre, there are numerous teams / functions, and it really involves lots of luck.

From the people I know, it's either a solid internship or family connections that landed them nice IB FO gigs (and yeah, undergrad interships are distributed randomly to people around). Other people have to struggle and settle for less atm. Networking is limited, I've never seen cold-calling/emailing work, people on LinkedIn either don't reply or tell BS (or I'm doing it wrong), so it's all about applications / connections introductions IMO.

A friend of mine had a solid interview with 2 MDs at a BB, and was not chosen simply because they had one or two guys from his country, and they needed another national to pigeonhole their coverage. And it's like that in London, true story. Even solid performers are sometimes ditched over specific needs of the extremely varied groups.

 

@Ash_nash and Awon- Ok it's reassuring that you both think the research experience will be sufficient to try to fill in a gap. Heeding your advice, for now what I will do is 1) do that research job 2) keep on applying 3) trying to network 4) work that contract data analysis job to support myself but dont put it on my resume (my resume only has space for 3 positions and I feel that the research one is much more market-relevant) 5) maybe CFA( one for vs one against haha)

Also, I DID hear in Sept/Oct that banks were trying to see how the Eurozone crisis resolves and how their 4Q2011 results would be before making hiring decisions and that they might unfreeze their hiring if things got better - obviously we know that Markozy still hasn't gotten a grip and this hasn't happened. Is there still a possibility that they may unfreeze FO grad headcount and do a late round of off-cycle hiring if things do actually get better after Q1 2012? (that would be awfully late for grad recruiting for sept 2012).

@Damnringo, omgosh tell me about it! I totally know what you mean about the randomness - I also feel that in Europe it's much more based on random things like what other European languages you speak and your country of origin, ESPECIALLY this year, with the grad programs essentially on hiring freeze and only ad-hoc recruiting occurring for specific desks.

The only person I know who got an FT S&T position got it because he happened to speak the 2 languages that a specific desk was looking for (this was also an ad-hoc desk-specific position at a BB that was on headcount freeze for the general grad scheme). Obviously he has other merits but I don't think he's better than the numerous other friends I know who couldn't even land interviews (in fact, many are far more qualified in terms of other skills, both technical and soft skills), so I'm not surprised something like that happened to your friend! You really do need a bit of "luck" in Europe ESPECIALLY this year, as many of the key factors in the hiring decisions (what country you're from, European languages) aren't really within your control (you can argue that you should have learned more languages, but I mean c'mon, how could any of us have known that speaking a specific language like Finnish would be a absolute must to get that job in the ONE desk that's hiring this year?)

Yeah, I know what you mean about the networking. I've been trying to leverage some contacts, but the most I could get was a resume-review followed by something along the lines of "I think you're a strong candidate, but honestly the market is just so bad right now... I don't even know if my own job is safe. I'll try to see if anythingn comes up but honestly I don't know... ". Someone even passed on my resume to HR, but was told there was a headcount freeze. Maybe I'm not doing it right either, so I'm wondering how i'm supposed to do it! Would really like advice from people who have been successful with their networking efforts.

@Rob, Unfortunately I'm not actually living in London (I can't afford it in my current situation) but I go there quite often. I've actually thought of a voluntary organization as well, or going abroad to do some volunteering for a month or so (it's always been a dream of mine but I've always had a pretty hectic schedule and could never find a gap for it). I feel that in addition to being a life-long dream I can also give my resume more dimension that way. What are your thoughts?

Again, thanks for some of the great advice !

 

Actually, I'm wondering if anyone can review my resume for me and tell me what I can do to improve my chances - I've already added in the academic research (since I've started on it a bit and know what I'd like to do) + CFA for now The middle work expeirence is my BB internship. My background prior to my master's is not related, so I deleted some of my prior experience that arent as relevant.

http://www.razume.com/documents/24130

I'd like you to be brutally honest. If you think I'm a lost cause, then I'll be realistic and consider other career paths.

Thanks again x

 
Lily_1988:
Actually, I'm wondering if anyone can review my resume for me and tell me what I can do to improve my chances - I've already added in the academic research (since I've started on it a bit and know what I'd like to do) + CFA for now The middle work expeirence is my BB internship. My background prior to my master's is not related, so I deleted some of my prior experience that arent as relevant.

http://www.razume.com/documents/24130

I'd like you to be brutally honest. If you think I'm a lost cause, then I'll be realistic and consider other career paths.

Thanks again x

I don't need to look at your resume (which you deleted) to know that it is good enough for a number of the jobs you want. I do encourage you to polish the wording, etc.

A lot of members of this site get a bit fixated with the "if there was X job and a Harvard and a UVA graduate applied for it then the Harvard guy would get it." Don't listen to them! Not because there is no merit in that statement, but rather because it doesn't help. EVERYONE knows that prestigious schools (which you have in your background) and prestigious internships help a LOT! However, real life is not always a prestige competition were the person with the most points gets the job.

My point is that as long as you have a good resume, no one can (or should) tell you that it is not good enough for X position. I'm not gonna list examples, but a lot of people have gotten job over people that look 100X better on paper or might actually be better in actuality. Worrying about statistical chances of X resume getting Y job is not for people in your position.

Also, have you made sure that the previous "unrelated experience" did not provide you with relevant professional skills? Maybe you became a better writer, presenter or researcher. Those are useful for many, many jobs.

It seems like you have a good plan. Now you just need to follow through with it. As for the networking you might want to look into the Mergers & Inquisitions networking guide. Best of luck, man!

 

It's hard to review a resume that has 50% of its details redacted. I understand you probably want to remain anonymous as possible but what we -can- see doesn't tell us too much. Or maybe that's just me.

One thought- third work ex section.. "in a professional and compelling manner"? That sounds extremely awkward and tool-ish to me; maybe others have differing opinions but I would definitely rephrase that. "Assisted in" is a strange idiom, change that. It sounds too wishy-washy. Actually, tbh, your entire resume sounds a bit wishy-washy to me.

Currently: future neurologist, current psychotherapist Previously: investor relations (top consulting firm), M&A consulting (Big 4), M&A banking (MM)
 

Thanks chic, haha I jus read that sentence and realized it was so awkward as well! I recently changed it without thinking too much and thought it was fine at the time but you're totally right.

Is my resume looking wishy-washy because 50% of it is covered or is there anything I can do specifically to make it less so? .. sorry I got a little paranoid as I have revealed quite a bit of info about myself here so I got carried away with the blacking-out haha . Looking at it now you can't really tell what I did at all...

 

I'd go with this :

5) cold email funds for an unpaid internship (I know this is likely the best option, but stil need something to fill up my resume until I can land one)

but don't just cold email. Contact alumni and go to conferences-ask to volunteer if they are too expensive. You need these people to meet you in person and like you. Is there anything about your background or coursework that is niche? Could you go to a regional conference ( MENA, ASIAN markets) or could you shape your story for a specific industry -energy, infrastructure, healthcare, etc...? Im going to PM you with more info

 

Still amazes me people aren't looking further afield like Australia. If Sydney's good enough for my ex-McKinsey, Harvard MBA mate, I'm sure most people would do ok there if you're really after prestige and big money roles..

"More Cowbell! I still need more Cowbell!"
 

Great advice, SodaBear. Expanding your reach geographic reach is a good idea.

Hong Kong could also be an option, but you need to be on the ground to network and pursue opportunities. You really can't network from Europe, except for setting up appointments for when you get there. I recently met 2 people that recruited off cycle in Hong Kong and told me that you absolutely have to be there. And since it is not guaranteed that you will get something it would be a tough decision.

Perhaps you can contact alumni from your school that are in these geographies and try to get a better reading of the situation. My sense from my connections there is that Hong Kong will be on a wait and see mode until Q1 results are out. Some jobs will require Mandarin and for others people that can speak Cantonese will be given preference, but there are positions (like trading) were you do not need either language.

 

Why did you not apply for Big 4 TAS?

Certain groups in Big 4 TAS are crying out for people now...my advice is to get in there for the following reasons:

  1. In london big 4 does not have the same stigma as in US...plenty of people in good finance positions have come from Big 4
  2. ACA is well respected in UK (unlike CPA in US)
  3. Some of the Big 4 do some seriously interesting legit work...you will learn a lot and will likely get some things that look good on a CV

Ok so its not Goldman TMT but the upside is so much higher than BO (even MO)..you get good finance exeprience, interesting work and a well respected qualification while your netowrking.,....if you get something better in the mean time great but if not at least your not stuck in a dead end job with the clock ticking...your working towards something rather than worrying about spending too long in a bad job.

 
Bernankey:
Anyone else lol at "consulting (MBB)"? How about looking at a slightly lower tier consulting firm?
This. I'd say it's too late for second-tier firms like OWFS/Accenture too. Look at boutique strategy consulting firms, they tend to be more informal with interviews too (just had one last week and another this week).
Currently: future neurologist, current psychotherapist Previously: investor relations (top consulting firm), M&A consulting (Big 4), M&A banking (MM)
 

Thanks for the suggestions. I should make it clear, during recruitment this year I was primarily focused on S&T and so options like Big 4 and consultancies didn't seem relevant to me at the time at all (again I was foolish enough to think that I had a good shot at FT S&T. But you have to understand this naive confidence came from the fact that friends who had similar credentials as me - same school, 1 bb internship, similar extracurricular involvement - in the previous recruiting cycles were able to secure interviews at virtually all the BBs and all land jobs ). Obviously now I've revised my expectations and am open to a lot more things.

Consulting is actually my least favorite option out of things I listed (I've interviewed with McKinsey and made it to final round a few years ago but didn't personally love what I had learned of the work and the culture in the process) , so I'd like to put it off for now until I finish getting through some applications that interest me more (just found like 6 ER postings, and asset fund and PE internships on my school career portal this week).

 

also a question re: cold calling : I seem to have been having much better luck with applying to postings on my school's career portal - Had only applied to about 10 jobs on it and had one first round( but then got screened out due to lack of work Visa for the location since the company doesn't sponsor) and one offer (which I turned down because it was actually a lot less relevant than what the description on the posting claimed) . My cold calling attempts have meanwhile been dismal to be honest and are no where close to a 20% interview yield.

Is this normal? I mean it makes sense to me, because companies who post are actively looking to hire whereas when you coldemail, many places don't even want an unpaid intern whose usefulness is questionable and who may just "get in the way". If this is the case shouldn't I focus more on applying to the postings rather than cold calling?

 

Cold-calling is challenging so if applications are working better for you, that's great. But I think you need to put networking with alumni or whoever first. You aren't go to hear back from everyone and some will take a week or two to schedule a call with you, so email a bunch now, schedule the calls or meetings, and then start preparing for those while you do apps/cold calls on the side.

You could get a job through any of these modes. But in a tough market, personal relationships will help you to find the unadvertised openings and put you ahead of others who only submit resumes. I was recently working at a top boutique investment bank and they were reviewing 100+ resumes for one position. But anyone with a personal connection got top consideration as long as they met threshold requirements (admittedly high but my point is that it's not merit after a certain level of qualification)- even if they didn't have a banking background at all. They were prioritized over solid top mba applicants with a bit more relevant experience.

Also, if you get a good network going, that will help you transition in case you take a job 'for now' and want to move in a few years.

 

Hi all,

I am new to the website and would like to reAeach more about the treasury sales program specially atari JPMorgan. I have been offered a position within their sales analyst sum program and would like any sort of input about the sort of work I might be getting expose to and the expectations specially if tis not a investment banking but e treasury services line of business. I would also like to ask if there are exit opportunities to like other desks like quitties or fx or commodities within the firm. If possible could someone also give me some insight about the starting base salaries and sort of bonuses to expect. I eally would like to learn about TSS as not a lot of website talk about it and to me it seems an interesting side of the business to start the career in finance.

Thanks

 
Sikandar89:
Hi all,

I am new to the website and would like to reAeach more about the treasury sales program specially atari JPMorgan. I have been offered a position within their sales analyst sum program and would like any sort of input about the sort of work I might be getting expose to and the expectations specially if tis not a investment banking but e treasury services line of business. I would also like to ask if there are exit opportunities to like other desks like quitties or fx or commodities within the firm. If possible could someone also give me some insight about the starting base salaries and sort of bonuses to expect. I eally would like to learn about TSS as not a lot of website talk about it and to me it seems an interesting side of the business to start the career in finance.

Thanks

Get your own fucking thread.

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Maybe the first thing to do is step back and figure out exactly what job function you want; learn exactly what that job entails. From your posts, it doesn't seem as if you have a precise idea of what you want. That was one of my biggest flaws in the beginning too. I actually interviewed with a firm that said, "Yeah, we thought you were an amazing candidate and we would have taken you because one of the MDs really liked you, but the rest of us just weren't sure if IB was exactly what you wanted."

Lily_1988:
I'm not so picky anymore about the exact job function anymore , but I know I want a challenging high-pressure high-reward job: I am looking at everything from S&T, IBD, Research, ECM/DCM, IM and Consulting (MBB).
I hope that's not what you tell people when you network with them...! There's a reason why we're instructed never to answer with "I'm also considering consulting" during banking interviews, haha. Either way, I think step one is to figure out exactly where you want to be and focus your energies on ventures that will improve your chances for that area. Beggars can't be choosers, but if you focus on one or two specific areas, you can go for depth rather than breadth... which is always more impressive than a jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none ordeal.
Currently: future neurologist, current psychotherapist Previously: investor relations (top consulting firm), M&A consulting (Big 4), M&A banking (MM)
 

Chic, while I do appreciate your advice on this, please rest assured that I am not that naive! haha I do make sure I tailor all my applications and networking emails to sound as if whatever I'm applying for is the only thing I want to do with my life (as pathetic as that sounds lol ). I would also never give any indication that I'm considering anything else but the role being discussed for in my interviews - I do have a pitch prepared for every one of those roles.

the reason why I'm being so broad with my career choice is well.. I learned from my mistake of being too specific , and really need to broaden my horizons. I'm mainly focused on research (equity and FICC), sales and trading and IBD, but will start to apply to the other jobs if none of these pan out. I felt that reserach, s &T, ibd and ECM/DCM were all kind of interrelated at this point in my (non)career. For example research S&T, IBD ER, S&TDCM/ECMIBD etc Whatever works out for me at the moment will be the direction I go in from here on.

Also, one thing I realized is that we won't really know whether or not we would love something without having tried it first. I was dead-set on equity research before I did my internship this summer. However, it was a really humbling experience as I got exposure to many different roles and securities (sales, trading, ecm/dcm, structuring and fixed income research) through work shadowing and networking during my internship. What I learned was that while ER is great, it's actually not my first choice anymore. many of these roles are really exciting and stimulating in their own ways and I feel that I would be happy in them.

I actually have a BB off-cycle, hedge fund, and ER interview lined up, so hopefully one of these will pan out ...

 

Lily,

I am a bit surprised no-one else has pointed this out before, but programming skills can be helpful but please remember that they are a tool and not a goal in their own right. Programming skills will be helpful for some jobs but hardly beneficial for many others.

Programming can be valuable in trading, research or structuring and is invaluable for quant positions. Mastery of C is often desired for quants or algo traders, but for most other positions I'd suggest you'd stick with VBA. Its is not elegant or efficient but it is easy to learn and integrates with your Excel spreadsheets without any pain. For those reasons, VBA is the most commonly used language on most (trading) desks.

Generally speaking, programming skills would help you the most if you are after a trading position. They have some application on certain research desks (mostly FICC or macro) and structuring desks but don't count for much in sales.

If you want to learn how to program, first carefully think what your ideal position, or asset class, would be and learn how to produce models or applications that are relevant for that job. For rates trading you could write and calibrate the LIBOR or Hull-White model in its basic form, for credit trading you could look into the KMVmodel, learn how to price digital options through replication and model if you're after equity derivatives, etc.

Is it worth getting an official certification? Not really, it is your relevant skills that matter and nothing else. A candidate who understands pricing models and can put these into sloppy code will be viewed more favorably than a candidate who writes fantastic code but has limited understanding of the model.

With the risk of rubbing you the wrong way, I would strongly recommend to narrow down your search and focus on one or two specific areas that really get your heart going. IBD, ER, DCM, and FX trading might be interrelated in theory but their every-day reality differs tremendously and few people would be equally happy in all of them. No matter how well you tailor your pitch to each application, you cannot fake genuine enthousiasm and interest. It may not be conscious, but interviewers will pick up on the fact that one qualified applicant would quite literally give an arm and a leg for the position while the other would just as well equally happy with very different job across the street.

In any case, good luck with your search!

 

Viscio I really appreciate the insight regarding the usefulness of programming on certain desks. The purpose of getting the certification was merely to maintain my "student/new grad" status and qualify for new grad recruiting next year, Ive now realized that BBs in the UK take new analysts even a year out of school, so I'm most likely scratching that idea.

I know it sounds like I have no clear idea of what I want to do - and to a certain extent that is true. I really like the markets as well as financial modelling and valuation, so I feel I would genuinely be happy with a variety of roles including sales, research, ecm/dcm, ibd.

After getting completely killed in recruitment this year in S&T(which took even less than ibd), I really regretted not applying to a bigger variety of roles. For example, I completely ruled out consulting because I wanted to streamline my recruiting and feel like I missed some good opportunities in hindsight - I actually would have had a decent shot of getting invited to the test with McKinsey ( I had interviewed with them in the past before my Master's and got to final round and made some connections there - got some good reviews and was told to apply back after my Master's). I felt that should start playing it safe from now on and diversifying into ECM/DCM and IBD applications at the very least.

On a related note, I do have my first ever IBD interview coming up, and was wondering if anyone knew how advanced the valuations and accounting questions would be. For example, if I review the vault guide and looked through all the questions on ibankingfaq.com, would that be enough? Should I also have a good idea of current high-profile transactions, and what would be a good source for those apart from the FT?

 
Lily_1988:
Viscio I really appreciate the insight regarding the usefulness of programming on certain desks. The purpose of getting the certification was merely to maintain my "student/new grad" status and qualify for new grad recruiting next year, Ive now realized that BBs in the UK take new analysts even a year out of school, so I'm most likely scratching that idea.

I know it sounds like I have no clear idea of what I want to do - and to a certain extent that is true. I really like the markets as well as financial modelling and valuation, so I feel I would genuinely be happy with a variety of roles including sales, research, ecm/dcm, ibd.

After getting completely killed in recruitment this year in S&T(which took even less than ibd), I really regretted not applying to a bigger variety of roles. For example, I completely ruled out consulting because I wanted to streamline my recruiting and feel like I missed some good opportunities in hindsight - I actually would have had a decent shot of getting invited to the test with McKinsey ( I had interviewed with them in the past before my Master's and got to final round and made some connections there - got some good reviews and was told to apply back after my Master's). I felt that should start playing it safe from now on and diversifying into ECM/DCM and IBD applications at the very least.

On a related note, I do have my first ever IBD interview coming up, and was wondering if anyone knew how advanced the valuations and accounting questions would be. For example, if I review the vault guide and looked through all the questions on ibankingfaq.com, would that be enough? Should I also have a good idea of current high-profile transactions, and what would be a good source for those apart from the FT?

If you don't mind my asking who's interviewing at the moment? (London based yaa?)

"After you work on Wall Street it’s a choice, would you rather work at McDonalds or on the sell-side? I would choose McDonalds over the sell-side.” - David Tepper
 

Get the BIWS guide. Seriously, it was the best thing I bought for interview prep. Check the firm's website, they usually post about their recent transactions, which is something you should definitely know about.

Currently: future neurologist, current psychotherapist Previously: investor relations (top consulting firm), M&A consulting (Big 4), M&A banking (MM)
 
chicandtoughness:
Get the BIWS guide. Seriously, it was the best thing I bought for interview prep. Check the firm's website, they usually post about their recent transactions, which is something you should definitely know about.

Thanks Chic. Are you talking about the $95 guide? In terms of the recent transactions, I've already gone through what was on their site, but is such a superficial understanding enough? (should I try to dig out more information by going through what I can find on google news, etc?)

 
Lily_1988:
I don't want to reveal the exact bank but there a number BBs offer off-cycle internships for London

No problem. Roths are still interview etc but have unfortunately filled their 2012 grad allowance. Good luck.

"After you work on Wall Street it’s a choice, would you rather work at McDonalds or on the sell-side? I would choose McDonalds over the sell-side.” - David Tepper
 

A lot of people are being mean.

My recommendation is to take a BO job until you truly decide on what you want to do. You said you read a description on IB and that's what you want to do. Well, there are kids who've completed two or three internships in IB departments. So guess what, they get priority. It sounds like you haven't applied yourself much when it comes to getting internships.

Here's what I would do in your position: 1. Take the BO. 2. Network, join some business/finance clubs, find the IB department, hopefully it is in the same building as your BO position. 3. Reach out to friends who are in IB, ask them for resources/books/video etc for training. 4. Apply for a position once you think you've learned enough to be able to land a position.

Many BB have a policy for their university recruiters. They're only allowed to recruit those who are college students. You can no longer rely on your campus OCR. You have to reach out now to get a spot in IB. So that means, NETWORK.

As a BO employee at a BB, you atleast have the ability to walk around the office and talk to people. You see someone standing and not doing anything. "Hi, I'm Jane, What department is on this floor?" "Oh great, I'd like to hear more about what you do sometime. Here is my card, do you have one available?"

It is not about the title that you have, it is about how much money that you have.
 
LWZ:

I am not completely looking just for IB jobs at this point. I am also expanding my search into tech startups who are hiring and many pay decently and can provide a better learning experience for business and entrepreneurship than IB when you first start.

Can anyone provide some advice into my job search?

if tech is so great, why didnt u do it from the beginning?

should have kept on networking - looks like u have to restart

speed boost blaze
 

A few boutiques are looking for analysts in NYC, Chicago, Philadelphia, and Boston (and I am sure many other places as well). These posts are barely advertised, if at all. The only way you could know that they are hiring is by simply calling them. Pull out a list of boutique banks from wherever possible, and start calling these places asking one question, "Are you guys still hiring analysts?"

"I do not think that there is any other quality so essential to success of any kind as the quality of perseverance. It overcomes almost everything, even nature."
 
LWZ:

Hello everyone,

I am an Economics graduating senior at a top 20 semi target with no FT offer so far. I had an AM internship my sophomore summer and ER boutique internship my junior summer. I had a 2 superdays this year, one at SunTrust for PM in ATL and one at Lazard for ECM in SF.

I put all my eggs in the Lazard basket so I stopped networking and recruiting while I was waiting for the Lazard superday and I had a bad interview and ended up not getting it.

I am not completely looking just for IB jobs at this point. I am also expanding my search into tech startups who are hiring and many pay decently and can provide a better learning experience for business and entrepreneurship than IB when you first start.

Can anyone provide some advice into my job search?

How are your grades?

I think the tough pill to swallow here is, you may not end up with a job, or a firm, that will particularly impress anyone man. You're at a good school, and you've likely had the fact that you're very smart reinforced your whole life. Even if your first FT gig isn't glamorous, if you keep working hard, you've likely got the raw ability to make great things happen in the long run.

Cast a wide net, gain some more experience, make some money, and figure out what you like to do.

 

Not trying to trash your start-up goal but I think your assesment of the job market is a bit off. There are certainly jobs available to undergrads in the start-up community---but, in-terms of comp, they will not be in the same ballpark as IB/ER/PM/Consulting. You have nothing to offer. You've never sold. You aren't a technology wizard. You have no marketing experiene. You will be hired based on likeability and need for cheap labor.

The tech firms that have competitive compensation are generally very-well established tech giants. Think facebook, google, twitter, Amazon etc These companies, if they hire undergrad business majors, will typically have a structured rotational program or use undergrads in an "account manager" esque position.

I think start-ups are awesome and a great career path--but your "I didn't get into IB so I'll go work in Tech" attitude is dangerous. They are very, very different and each has their own pros and cons that are oft debated on this forum.

 
CornTrader:

Not trying to trash your start-up goal but I think your assesment of the job market is a bit off. There are certainly jobs available to undergrads in the start-up community---but, in-terms of comp, they will not be in the same ballpark as IB/ER/PM/Consulting. You have nothing to offer. You've never sold. You aren't a technology wizard. You have no marketing experiene. You will be hired based on likeability and need for cheap labor.

The tech firms that have competitive compensation are generally very-well established tech giants. Think facebook, google, twitter, Amazon etc These companies, if they hire undergrad business majors, will typically have a structured rotational program or use undergrads in an "account manager" esque position.

I think start-ups are awesome and a great career path--but your "I didn't get into IB so I'll go work in Tech" attitude is dangerous. They are very, very different and each has their own pros and cons that are oft debated on this forum.

ur name is hilarious lol
speed boost blaze
 

Doesn't have to be your alumni from your chapter, anyone who's pledged the same fraternity as you is probably a useful contact to reach out to. I'm sure they'll be receptive as well.

 

Your chapter may be knew, but there's established chapters at other campus, who have alumni on the street I presume. Do you guys have a national LinkedIn group? Go on linkedin, hit enter in the search bar and then apply the group as a filter and then all the banks as the "current company" filter. I'm sure you'll find a few people. Definitely say you are interested in learning more about their role and what they do.

 

No I haven't gotten an offer from any place i've interviewed at. I think its when I interviewed at econ consulting, you can hear in my voice that I really was not passionate about it. I don't mind if I work at a BB or boutique, I just am really passionate about getting on a career path at least in the scope of financial services.

 

Speaking from my own experience, I graduated with no offer in my hand, but was able to score three in 4 months. And I believe this is not too uncommon in this space. Many (relatively) smaller boutique (or local) firms start their own recruiting when they happen to have an open position. I could get dozens of interviews in the 2H of the year, and I was even approached by an HR person in February for the application I submitted in the summer. I suggest you give a chance to yourself and don't delay the graduation.

 

Thanks for the responses.

hilariouspj, did you have prior FO internship experience? Also did you continue to target only FO positions at boutiques, and if you did, what exactly was your plan if things did not work out?

And as droking7 mentioned, I feel as if employers would look down on me if I graduated without an offer. Is it best to just be upfront (late interest in ER, but now committed to pursuing just this career), or would you say I need to have a stronger reasoning as to why I graduated with no job?

 

I delayed and was in exact same sich as you. I was able to land a shitty but paid internship in the summer, finished all my classes online to maintain finaid eligibility, and then busted my ass for an internship in the fall. It turned out that I was able to get a FT gig and have been in same role since.

It's a lot easier to approach people when you're a student, as oppose to a kid who graduated without an offer. If I was in same scenario again, I'd do the exact same thing over again.

 

Get that degree finished up and then HUSTLE! Set goals for networking, emails, calls, visits, etc. This will help you gauge your activity level each week and analyze it for the things you are doing that are creating the most momentum.

"Everybody needs money. That's why they call it money." - Mickey Bergman - Heist (2001)
 

A number of my friends are in this position, first and foremost go back to your alumni network and leverage the hell out of it often times alums are more than willing to be helpful. Start going to local business events things like rotary or lions club, or if you're in a major metropolitan area often times there are more focused professional organizations that you could go to, check and see if there is a local chapter of the CFA institute.

 

Also depends on your ability to live/support yourself post-graduation without a job. I was able to intern unpaid for the months that I didn't have a job through a connection of mine and lived at home with my parents helping me out until I could land something. It's definitely not the end of the world to graduate without a job as long as you are keeping busy, being proactive and don't stay unemployed for a long period of time

Array
 

What graduate programs do you have in mind? I know that masters in econ is pretty much useless to get ( you have to get a phd to be marketable) and I've looked at masters in finance programs but they seem very niche and not very common. Also, I haven't taken time to study for the GMAT or GRE so there's that as well..

 

Most internships are geared toward those with one year remaining of school, so that they can use the internship as a summer long interview process to see if you should get a full time offer or not. For you, that would mean doing a fifth year, and if you choose to do that, one way you could frame it is just that you switched majors so were a little behind others who were econ from the get go.

Also, don't discount the masters in finance program. It's expensive, but could certainly be worth exploring.

The hard thing about your current situation is that a lot of companies have switched to focus on internships aren't actively looking for FT hires at this point. That's not to say there aren't any, but you'll notice that the postings will be more geared that way, with somewhat fewer FT opps.

Regarding interviews, I think there's two things to keep in mind.

  1. It's a partial crapshoot - there's a lot of reasons you could get dinged and there aren't that many offers to go around. So keep your head up and keep grinding at it.

  2. I know you've mentioned that you think you're a good interviewer, but doesn't your experience show otherwise? Maybe it's time to take a step back and go through a practice round or two with career services to see if there's anything you can work on. At the very least, it can't hurt.

And lastly, good luck with everything.

 

To echo and perhaps summarize my thoughts, which includes some of what others have said

1) Do not do an internship. Period.

2) Find a job with a smaller company that is still in the field you’d like to work. From the positions you mentioned you interviewed for, it doesn’t seem like there is a specific area that you’ve restrained yourself to, which is good. Jobs at smaller companies are often not only easier to get, but their recruiting schedule is later and not as regimented as is the case at F500 companies.

3) I repeat what CHItizen said about your interviewing skills. 7 or 8 interviews via OCR without an offer means there is something there that needs to be examined.

Best of luck to you. The most important thing is to keep a positive attitude and don't give up. There is something out there for you, you just need to find it.

 

CHItizen and Blueapple, thanks for the advice. I have taken a look at some masters in finance programs, and my problem is that the base salaries are not much higher than most of the jobs that I'm looking at. That's not to say I'm only motivated my money, but the returns on the program is a big factor. Also, again I haven't really studied for the GMAT and I'm already late in the application process. Which leads me to my follow up question, would it be a bad thing to show a gap year between going to school? If I studied all semester for the GMAT on top of taking classes, I might be able to get a decent score, and then apply for late decisions (at UVA, Vanderbuilt, UT, ect.) . But I feel like because it's a late decision I might be at a disadvantage. Also, I'm also going to work on improving my interview skills, I know that that may be a factor and I'm doing what I can to brush up on my skills more. I'll also do some research on smaller companies that are hiring. Trying to stay positive!

 

what kind of school do you go to? what internships do you have so far? have you exhausted all alumni?

Anywho, find absolutely anything finance related EVEN if it's just an upaid internship. ANYTHING. Just need something to buy you time so you can have something on your resume while you try to find something better. An ad-hoc off cycle internship is arguably better b/c it allows more flexibility going forward as opposed to getting stuck in a shitty FT job you hate. Be careful about the MSF option - unless you get into a top one, it may not be worth it. Plus, my understanding is that it's too late to apply to most MSFs for entry this fall - maybe not the case with Nova though, which I believe has decent recruiting btw - and you can't just be unemployed for a whole year between undergad and grad school. If it gets really, really ugly and you can't find a damn thing, find anything white collar/office related, help out at a friend's business or something for a while. Geography matters here - a big city provides more places to intern/work at/meet and network with in person.

Just my two cents.

 
swagon:
what kind of school do you go to? what internships do you have so far? have you exhausted all alumni?

Anywho, find absolutely anything finance related EVEN if it's just an upaid internship. ANYTHING. Just need something to buy you time so you can have something on your resume while you try to find something better. An ad-hoc off cycle internship is arguably better b/c it allows more flexibility going forward as opposed to getting stuck in a shitty FT job you hate. Be careful about the MSF option - unless you get into a top one, it may not be worth it. Plus, my understanding is that it's too late to apply to most MSFs for entry this fall - maybe not the case with Nova though, which I believe has decent recruiting btw - and you can't just be unemployed for a whole year between undergad and grad school. If it gets really, really ugly and you can't find a damn thing, find anything white collar/office related, help out at a friend's business or something for a while. Geography matters here - a big city provides more places to intern/work at/meet and network with in person.

Just my two cents.

You are just so unpredictable...

 
ivoteforthatguy:
find a professor and volunteer as a research assistant. they might even pay you a living wage to cover basics. it is far far better than sitting on your ass in terms of resume gaps.

I can try this, but what would be the next step? Do I just keep reaching out to alumni in hopes of landing something off-cycle? And do you think this option is better than going after non-finance or BO positions?

 

Thanks for the responses guys. Grad school (or an unpaid internship) is not an option, I have to start working because of financial issues.

I transferred to a target from a CC. I have a 3.6 GPA. I have interned at BB WM and a regional boutique.

Since I transferred, I have probably reached out to 50+ alumni (plus many many other cold emails to non-alumni) not many responded, the ones that did didn't help in any substantial way. At this point, I have no connections I can tap.

Since I'm at a target, I've already applied to literally all BBs/MMs/boutiques in the area during the regular recruiting cycle, so in terms of off-cycle recruiting, how do I even approach them when they have already turned me down once?

 
theparadox:
I transferred to a target from a CC. I have a 3.6 GPA. I have interned at BB WM and a regional boutique.
So you had BB PWM and SA at a boutique and a good GPA from a target? If you don't mind my asking, were the interviews giving you trouble, or you weren't able to get interviews lined up in the first place? Understandably, it has been a hard year for everyone, even for folks at targets. Seems like you have really solid credentials and just got unlucky...sorry to hear it man, that sucks.
 

msf from a target....its really your only option at this point. with a 3.6 from a target you should be able to get in.

Correction: Just read that it isnt an option. If i were you i would go and try to see if I could get something at the same bulge bracket you worked at in PWM. Do a stellar job for about a year and get your finances together. Go through all the guides etc and try to make a lat move within the bank.

"death is nothing, but to live defeated is to die everyday" ~Napolean Bonaparte
 
allaboutthefight:
msf from a target....its really your only option at this point. with a 3.6 from a target you should be able to get in.

Correction: Just read that it isnt an option. If i were you i would go and try to see if I could get something at the same bulge bracket you worked at in PWM. Do a stellar job for about a year and get your finances together. Go through all the guides etc and try to make a lat move within the bank.

That's an option, although not a guarantee at this point, of course. But I hate the cold calling aspect (as in, I don't think I'm good at it) of starting out in the FA training program that BB has.

 

Blanditiis fuga est voluptas officia ut. Assumenda itaque quia et molestiae. Neque eveniet totam nulla libero tempore. Est eaque vel ut.

Totam impedit minus magnam autem. Corrupti ut autem qui commodi dolor atque qui. Aperiam et eum quia voluptatem odit at nemo quasi. In sunt nobis perferendis minima repellat inventore quam.

Est dolorem eos fugit dolor aliquid. Provident blanditiis quia dolorum blanditiis. Voluptates ut et optio quaerat quasi. Accusantium ad saepe aut labore consequuntur sunt aspernatur voluptatibus.

Sed quibusdam tempore animi praesentium minima libero. Magni incidunt animi voluptatem consequatur harum laudantium. Iusto aspernatur molestiae consectetur perferendis animi.

[quote]The HBS guys have MAD SWAGGER. They frequently wear their class jackets to boston bars, strutting and acting like they own the joint. They just ooze success, confidence, swagger, basically attributes of alpha males.[/quote]
 

Laborum iure numquam sit porro cum sunt. Odit sequi atque dolorem atque consequatur nihil. Quae in commodi eveniet dicta eveniet cum natus.

Quisquam architecto qui et sit consequatur et. Qui cum et eaque ea assumenda voluptatibus quam. Voluptas molestias molestias repudiandae omnis. Cupiditate id recusandae aliquid amet. Voluptates perspiciatis error dolorem rerum provident. Sed architecto dicta eligendi sunt. Recusandae nostrum aut corporis rerum beatae eligendi illum aliquid.

 

Labore atque dolorum quaerat accusamus. Qui unde ex voluptatem. Optio commodi rerum aliquam harum dolores. Tempora quaerat est in voluptates et. Sed est dolorum et occaecati accusamus autem id.

Nemo odit velit dolores suscipit itaque dolorum a. Fugit et quas minima est. Eveniet provident fuga magni ut. Consequuntur est odio dolores.

Provident ducimus eligendi quisquam alias accusantium quas harum. Quae modi quisquam aliquid molestiae. Eum eius corporis ducimus praesentium. Dolorum sunt quidem asperiores ea itaque. Et ratione et sed facilis.

 

Natus qui facilis odio autem aut quam perspiciatis. Iure harum quis fugit eos ipsum exercitationem ducimus. Et voluptatem et voluptas vel ipsam ut debitis dignissimos.

Velit accusantium consequatur assumenda qui. Quidem consectetur dolorem delectus sed expedita voluptas. Provident deserunt id quis provident id est dolor. Quisquam labore excepturi et.

Id culpa quam provident possimus vel. Nemo maxime asperiores illo voluptates. Voluptate ab tempora voluptatum. Repudiandae distinctio ipsa modi eum voluptatem animi nam qui. Eaque tenetur error eaque repudiandae ut quae accusamus. Et et asperiores asperiores.

Tempore a necessitatibus voluptates placeat ratione. Eligendi et explicabo beatae nemo voluptatibus quos id est. Nisi et vitae libero qui ut ut.

 

Rerum sit nesciunt ut sed quod magni ex. Nostrum mollitia eum est sed et. Aspernatur porro veritatis sequi aspernatur eveniet dolorem saepe. Impedit reprehenderit error ad non doloribus quibusdam aut. Ipsa consectetur est ipsam voluptate doloribus soluta accusamus autem. Aliquam enim qui sed et aut corrupti.

Inventore praesentium omnis id velit voluptatum voluptatibus voluptatibus. Aliquam id vitae maiores aspernatur quasi enim quam illo. Facilis voluptas magni et sit. Sed molestiae velit qui.

Ut doloremque temporibus et voluptate dolorem. Laborum et doloremque minima hic. Qui quam quisquam nulla aliquam. Ea tempora nisi consectetur veniam sapiente eos corrupti quia. Repellendus non possimus voluptatem repellat et sunt et sunt.

Incidunt corrupti aut cupiditate commodi doloremque. Natus aspernatur illo soluta illum quia qui dignissimos. Dolores autem in ea deleniti perferendis rerum. Et dolorem tempora voluptates et.

 

Saepe earum minima in dolor quasi doloremque. Saepe debitis cum dolor quos eos error. Et amet et necessitatibus nostrum molestiae laboriosam.

Et quam qui porro sint. Mollitia esse omnis atque. Dolor impedit enim sint deleniti quo consequatur. Id reiciendis fugiat fugit tenetur molestias eum.

Sed ratione ad facilis magnam velit velit. Omnis voluptatibus est modi aspernatur doloremque qui. Est ut tempora ut sapiente similique ea facilis.

Career Advancement Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Jefferies & Company 02 99.4%
  • Goldman Sachs 19 98.8%
  • Harris Williams & Co. (++) 98.3%
  • Lazard Freres 02 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 03 97.1%

Overall Employee Satisfaction

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Harris Williams & Co. 18 99.4%
  • JPMorgan Chase 10 98.8%
  • Lazard Freres 05 98.3%
  • Morgan Stanley 07 97.7%
  • William Blair 03 97.1%

Professional Growth Opportunities

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Lazard Freres 01 99.4%
  • Jefferies & Company 02 98.8%
  • Goldman Sachs 17 98.3%
  • Moelis & Company 07 97.7%
  • JPMorgan Chase 05 97.1%

Total Avg Compensation

March 2024 Investment Banking

  • Director/MD (5) $648
  • Vice President (19) $385
  • Associates (86) $261
  • 3rd+ Year Analyst (13) $181
  • Intern/Summer Associate (33) $170
  • 2nd Year Analyst (66) $168
  • 1st Year Analyst (202) $159
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (144) $101
notes
16 IB Interviews Notes

“... there’s no excuse to not take advantage of the resources out there available to you. Best value for your $ are the...”

Leaderboard

1
redever's picture
redever
99.2
2
Betsy Massar's picture
Betsy Massar
99.0
3
Secyh62's picture
Secyh62
99.0
4
BankonBanking's picture
BankonBanking
99.0
5
DrApeman's picture
DrApeman
98.9
6
CompBanker's picture
CompBanker
98.9
7
dosk17's picture
dosk17
98.9
8
GameTheory's picture
GameTheory
98.9
9
kanon's picture
kanon
98.9
10
Jamoldo's picture
Jamoldo
98.8
success
From 10 rejections to 1 dream investment banking internship

“... I believe it was the single biggest reason why I ended up with an offer...”