Group placement - How to actually "get in" to a top group at GS/MS?

It's obvious that MS M&A, GS TMT...etc is extremely competitive. But how does one actually get into such a group, given an offer at such a bank?

 

there is like a training program before you start to work

you get some grades when you complete these courses additionally there is an opportunity to network with different groups

obviously strongest groups lobby for the candidates with best performance and for those that they liked the most the decision can also be based on your previous experiences/connections at the bank - summer analyst stint for example

does this answer your question?

 
Best Response
animalz:
there is like a training program before you start to work

you get some grades when you complete these courses additionally there is an opportunity to network with different groups

obviously strongest groups lobby for the candidates with best performance and for those that they liked the most the decision can also be based on your previous experiences/connections at the bank - summer analyst stint for example

does this answer your question?

This is inaccurate given that most banks do direct placement for summer analysts (and that predicates your full-time placement, obviously). There is usually a 'sell day' sort of event where they bring in all the incoming summers in March and you get to meet guys in each group, they meet you, and each side force-ranks their top choices.

Getting into a top group typically involves a combination of: strong/proactive networking, alumni connections, prior relevant experience (i.e. tech banking at another bank as a sophomore gets you a leg up for GS TMT), and personality (if you're a stud, people will like you at that sell day).

I am permanently behind on PMs, it's not personal.
 

APAE has it right, for the most part. At some banks, however, they don't do a sell day. In those instances, the strongest candidates for certain groups are often those who take the time to go into the offices and meet with the group. I would say that 90% of the emphasis is placed on fit and 10% is actual experience in the space. For instance, GS TMT cares far more about whether you're a cool person than whether you've had tons of relevant experience in tech/telecom. At the end of the day, you're 21 years old - it's not like your relevant experience is going to count for much anyway. Really, the people who are comfortable talking about themselves and presenting a compelling story in a relaxed manner are the ones with the best shot at getting into certain groups. This also means that grades/school are relatively irrelevant at this stage in the process. So GS TMT would much rather take a kid with a 3.6 from say Georgetown who's cool to spend time with/intellectually curious rather than his more awkward counterpart from Wharton with a 3.9.

dollas
 

Depends on bank. GS has a sell day after SA and then they place you. You will return to that group if you get an offer in most cases. MS has an Associate pool where you are a generalist for your first year.

"They are all former investment bankers that were laid off in the economic collapse that Nancy Pelosi caused. They have no marketable skills, but by God they work hard."
 

MS will give you a sheet with all groups and you list your top 5. If lucky you get your first choice, dont know about M&A in the US.

In London you often interview with a specific teams at GS so it would already be predetermined where you would end up. Otherwise they might have a similar thing as MS

"too good to be true" See my WSO Blog
 

I can't speak from first hand experience, but I know that the process varies by bank.  At Bear, my friend was in the rotational program and got 2 of his top 3 choices, but the 3rd rotation was one of his middle choices.

 

Unless you are given an offer for a specific group within a bank (which not all banks will do), the process generally functions as a series of meet and greats. So, you meet a bunch of people before and while you start interviewing and start forming a view on whether or not you like what they do, and they about it you would be good in their group. Then either during, or a few months before training, the bank will have a series of networking events where you meet with all the groups and they meet with you. After this point every ranks who they want, the groups tend to just make a list of everyone they want and you will give a list of the groups you like. Some banks will let you rank your preferences, some will not.

At this point, a few people from HR initiate the black box whereby they balance ranking, how much they like a group, if the group got screwed over last year, etc,etc,etc. At the end of the day, you wind up in some completely random group, as long as you ranked it.

Personally, I got my last choice, but it ended up being a decent fit with good exit opps. Just because you didn't get the group you wanted or whatever doesn't mean anything, you have no idea what you want, or are qualified for, until about 4 months into the job.

--There are stupid questions, so think first.
 

depends on the firm.  bottom line is that you can't go wrong simply networking and meeting as many people as early as possible in your desired groups.  once you have your offer, speak to alums who are analysts to learn about groups.  ask to come down - on your own dime - to meet a few people in different groups.  stay in touch with a few.

GS/MS hired into groups.  C placed based on meet and greets, but ultimately the scores on your accounting finance test at the end of the training.  some groups literally gave winks to analysts only to say, you didn't score above a 93 which was the floor for our group - sorrrrrrrrry.  ubs has a resume book where the groups pick from based on your rankings.

 

Depends first on your own personal interests, second on the bank's strength/reputation in particular groups (GS is strong in TMT, MS is strong in Tech/Sponsors/RE, CS is strong in Sponsors, etc.), and third on the culture of the guys in the group.

These variables are not listed in order of importance, as different people will have different views on which matter the most.

 

Are you particularly interested in a certain industry? Do you have a specific exit opportunity in mind? Is your bank extraordinarily strong in a certain area?

Usually these are the three questions people ask, and then after assembling a list of groups you go in and meet people. I think it's important that you take this final step, as your third choice might shoot up to number one after you meet the people you'll be working for.

 

could someone tell me how the group selection process actually works? (UBS for me and other banks for other readers)

has anyone took part in the process of choosing incoming analysts for their group?

 

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