Harvard 2+2 Program---->IB/HF/PE later?
Is it possible to go through the 2+2 Program at HBS (or Stanford GSB deferred option) and go straight into IB, HF, PE, etc? I've heard that getting an MBA straight out of grad school is a disaster.
I'm currently a 2nd year econ major but I'm thinking of dropping the major and majoring in French, IR or Politics. I'm interested in international relations, but I'd still like to venture in IB in the future. Also, I kind of wrecked my freshman year GPA, I've pulled it up dramatically this semester (4.0), but I'm not sure I can pull it far enough to be competitive for IB SA positions my junior year. The best I could hope for by beginning of next year is 3.3-3.4.
However, I'm certain that majoring in an easier major, French or Politics, I could pull up my GPA in time for grad admissions. Econ is a relatively difficult major at my school (lot of grade deflation) and as much as I do enjoy my econ related courses it's been stressful trying to maintain an A in these classes to make up for my freshman year. I find that I have an easier time with my French/Politics/IR courses.
What should I do?
Do you even know what 2 + 2 is?
None of this stuff other stuff if you don't get an IB SA internship like you're planning, so let's not get ahead of yourself here.
Keep the GPA way up. Whether or not your major matters depends on your school. At an Ivy, doesn't matter too much. If you're at a non-target...probably want something quantitative. (As an aside, it's a little concerning that you think econ is "too hard"...that shit isn't anything more than calculus.) No surprise that you think Politics and International Relations is easier. I mean, those are joke majors.
Going to IB from HBS/GSB as a 2+2 wouldn't be at all difficult, but presumably you'd already have done 2 years as an analyst, so I don't know why you'd spend $150k and 2 years going to business school to get an associate position when you could just get promoted A2A. PE and HF would be much more difficult for you, however, because the people who you would be competing with for those positions would have 2 years as an analyst plus another 2 at a reputable PE firm or HF.
IMO, 2+2/deferred admission is great for MBB consultants, since they're going to business school anyway and many of them just do 3 years at their consulting firm. So there's no real disadvantage to leaving early. For IB, though? Heading to biz school without buyside experience could be a disaster.
I'm trying to be realistic here. My worry is that majoring in Economics is going to lower my GPA (and it's already not too great). I don't think I'd be able to attain any job in finance if my GPA isn't where it needs to be.
Some people are more quantitative oriented, others not so much. I'm somewhere in the middle but I think I'd do far better in a more humanities-type major. I'm thinking of the potential to have a higher GPA other than majoring in something that is more "challenging". A high gpa in Politics or IR would probably do better than a low one in econ I presume. I'm also attend a Top 20 lac but it's a non-target (w/ some reliable alumni contacts).
I'm actually also looking at management consulting so perhaps 2+2 could still be an option?
So, my plan is French/IR major-->High GPA-->Harvard 2+2 (if I'm lucky)-->IB/MBB Consulting/HF
Can't I make that work?
...IB/MBB/HF/consulting??
make up your mind? LBJ gives good advice btw. can u get a 3.7+ with econ? what's your current GPA?
are you African American and female? if so then URM goes your way and itll make things easier.
FYI getting MBB is the hardest thing to do from a non-target. even harder the top IB groups
What I'm saying is that you should be taking Econ and getting A's. You're not at MIT. C'mon.
I don't know what a "Top 20" liberal arts college is, and I'm kind of a whore about this stuff, so it sounds like your school isn't too impressive. In that case, you would definitely benefit from choosing a more challenging major and getting As in it. A 3.6 in International Relations from, I dunno, Macalaster? That's not going to impress an Ivy-educated banker. It's a joke major at a school that people will assume inflates grades. If you're "not quantitative," then I'm sorry, but you shouldn't be working in finance. Stop being a little bitch and study a little harder.
When I said that HBS 2+2 was a good program for MBB consultants, I just meant that it made sense for them because (a) a lot of MBB consultants go to business school anyway, and (b) a lot of them apply straight out of McKinsey, unlike bankers, who usually work in another role for 2-3 years before applying. So you're not lacking all this professional experience.
I think you have this backwards line of reasoning though, where you're looking at HBS as the goal and trying to figure out what the best career is to get there. And that's totally, 100% shitty logic. HBS is just a tool to advance your career. It doesn't make your career. Like if I told you that you could flip burgers for two years and then go to HBS, would you do it? No, that'd be retarded, because you'd still be a burger flipper, only you'd be down $150k and have a fancy diploma and an HBS North Face fleece.
I think what might be confusing you is that an MBA is actually very different than a JD (law degree) or an MD (medical degree). With the latter two, just getting the degree basically sets your career path in motion. Like, you go to law school and when you graduate, presumably you will then begin to work as a lawyer. That's it. So like, getting a Harvard Law degree kinda equals professional success in the legal field. Everyone goes to law school, law firms generally only select people from good law schools, etc etc. Same thing (sort of?) with medicine. Once you go to the fancy school, you're going to go do fancy successful things? If that makes sense.
But an MBA isn't the same. Like, plenty of successful finance professionals never get MBAs. It's not a prerequisite for being a successful investor, or banker, or whatever. And getting an MBA early (like I said before) is a bit of a waste. And not everyone (here's the most important part) is on the same playing field when they attend! Like, if you're Mr. Harvard undergrad to BX R&R to KKR, you're going to have a very different recruiting experience than Mr. Rutgers undergrad to Ernst & Young who's got this really interesting life story that HBS really liked. Both HBS admits (and future alums), two very different professional arcs. Simply getting into HBS isn't going to make Mr. Rutgers into a future billionaire business super-star.
So I guess my point is like, figure out what you want to do professionally and go do that? Then you can apply to MBA programs and it'll all sort itself out from there.
Btw; Harvard 2+2 = Undergrad -> 2 years of work -> 2 years of HBS
Oh, I didn't realize you work 2 years before getting the MBA. I'll look more into it, however.
Thanks for all the help everyone.
...look into SEO and MLT, don't forget that. it'll be your one saving grace
Harvard 2+2 - What are they looking for? (Originally Posted: 02/01/2015)
Does anyone get accepted to this who plans to go BB IBD before matriculating? Is it impossible to get accepted as a business major going into IBD? Although they've opened it up to all majors, it seems as though they are largely STEM focused. Know anyone who got accepted and was going into IBD for the first "2?"
It's honestly for STEM, women, and minorities. The whole purpose is to attract candidates who normally wouldn't attend business school. I've only heard of one candidate going to an MBB for 2 years but she is a woman and minority as well. Others were Microsoft, Boeing, and a PhD. I've heard they don't bother with business majors and IBD unless you really are special ( but come on, everyone thinks their situation is special) because they'll get plenty of those applicants in regular admissions.
Thanks for the helpful response. That's generally what I've heard.
Anyone here apply to 2+2 and get accepted? Dinged?
Curious how the job thing works. So I understand that you apply let's say Round 1 of the 2+2 (deadline is Sep. 9, at least this year), and let's say you get accepted. What if you can't find a job after graduating? I'm sure since this is for the best of the best they won't have a problem but for fields outside of business, you never know.
I was accepted. For those who can't find jobs but do get accepted (and there are a couple) HBS does lend a hand to help them find jobs. I'm not sure exactly what that entailed as I already had an offer that I accepted but I did see some emails go out. For reference I was a pretty typical STEM applicant, not minority or female though.
It's for people who would otherwise go to Law School. Simple as that.
At least that was the rationale in the beginning.
I was accepted to the 2+2 about 2 years ago. It seems to me that HBS accepts STEM from major industries such as oil, aero, energy, and auto. Outside of this, they do accept a large quantity of traditional business types, including MBB, IB, VC, and start-ups. The traditional business types are typically from prestigious (HYPS) undergrads while the F500 STEM are not always from prestigious undergrads. Plenty of minorities and non-minorities in the mix. These are trends I've noticed and not absolutes.
For this reason, I cringe when people here say that the 2+2 program is only for STEM applicants, minorities, or for people who would traditionally go to law school. This simply is not true anymore.
My data comes from a sample size that is relatively large as the facebook group consists of 300+ members.
and obviously @"AnalyzeThat" knows what he is talking about. So I shall repeat his money quote:
Harvard 2+2 program (Originally Posted: 04/12/2011)
Theoretically, If one were to have internships from first year uni in IB and second year PE, in say the Middle East, plus they founded and successfully ran, for 2 years, a prosperous Investment club and ofcourse throw in there a great junior summer internship at a reputable IB. What are their chances at Harvard 2+2? Great grades a given..
close to 0...from what I understand the 2+2 program is SPECIFICALLY for non-finance people. therefore every single one of those internships hurts you more and more...just do a search. that program is for non-typical applicants.
//www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/harvard-mba-22-program
Damn near zilch. 2 of my close friends got it. One founded a non-profit in the congo, the other is the founder of the campus magazine/television station. Out of the ~ 100 admits, it's usually less than 5 from traditional business backgrounds.
Riddle me this: If I went to a state school, studied liberal arts, and have been working in finance for two years, is it possible / advisable to apply to this program? Aside from the two years in finance, I come from a somewhat unconventional background.
Pretty sure you apply and are accepted/rejected during undergrad
If you want to get into HBS2+2 do the following:
1) Open a factory in war-torn Sudan that makes quilts and employs local villagers and pays them a decent living wage plus benefits.
2) Start a nonprofit that helps ex sex slaves in Asia get an education.
3) Donate 50% of your earnings from the quilt factory to the nonprofit to finance its operations.
4) Go to ancestry.com and trace your family tree back to a point that links you to Native Americans, then claim NA as your ethnicity on the application.
Just do all four steps and you'll have no problem getting in.
You have to get away from a traditional "finance kid" profile. It's about 3.8+ GPA in a quantitative major, 750+ GMAT, starting at least one social venture, non-finance work experience, and even then an interview is a long shot OP, especially since (no offence) I'm pretty sure you go to MacMaster. But I mean by all means take a shot, I'm applying this October so if you have any questions about the program from the research I've done feel free to PM me.
Cheers,
does legacy have any effect?
Ok, a few things from the perspective of an HBS student.
1) You do NOT need to be a diety to get into Harvard. There are 903 students in my school, and only maybe 10-20% have done something outstanding (saving Africa), everybody else just has a habit of leadership. It's true, you see a lot of BIg-3 consultants and PE types, but there are a lot of people from non-traditional backgrounds as well.
2) HBS Admissions does not value the same things your friends do. Conventional wisdom among finance geeks is that PE is this super-amazing thing that gets you into b-school because it's so exclusive. HBS looks for LEADERSHIP, not industry - they care about what you did, not where you did it. It doesn't matter what company you worked for, the question you want to answer is did you make an impact that somebody else in that role would not have made. If you have a habit of leadership, you get in. If not, then not. This applies even for 2+2.
3) 2+2 is specifically designed into getting non-business kids into business school. Think engineers, scientists, non-profit types. Not finance types.
2+2 Threads
I applied last year... 750+ GMAT, 3.8+ GPA in quant major. I think the deal breaker was my BB IBD experience. They really aren't looking for finance kids.
Harvard 2+2 equivalent? (Originally Posted: 07/24/2009)
Are there any other top20 MBA schools that have a program similar to Harvard's 2+2 program? Unfortunately, I don't meet the specified target demographic for Harvard's 2+2 but the concept is very appealing.
I guess I'm looking for any sort of MBA program from the top20 schools that either you can apply to as an undergrad then join the program after a pre-determined period of work experience or some sort of unspecific deferment program where you apply as an undergrad but enter the program at a later point.
Ref: http://www.hbs.edu/mba/admissions/2+2/
Sorry for the butchered sentence structure. Just got done cleaning out my old apartment for 6 hours so I don't get docked $800 off my security deposit. I'm a little wiped =)
None that I'm aware of. However, some schools accept students directly out of undergrad (Yale, MIT, UChicago, Stanford, UCLA I think?) and many students who were accepted directly out of undergrad are often able to request and secure a deferral to obtain work experience before starting. MBA programs rarely grant deferrals for work reasons, but this is one of the few circumstances where they are lenient on them.
Also, I really think you need monster grades/scores (i.e. 3.8 at a top school, 750+ GMAT) in addition to very convincing essays to stand a chance at being admitted directly out of school. They're looking for raw horsepower as well as maturity above and beyond your peers.
I don't really have plans of going directly into an MBA program right out of undergrad. From everything I've read and been told the MBA is pretty much worthless without any work experience to relate to. And even more importantly, job placement is much more scarce without that previous work experience once you actually get your MBA. I'm just a paranoid individual looking to essentially secure my spot in a program 1-3 years ahead of time so it's not something I have to worry about once I enter the work force and so I can plan accordingly for it.
From a pure admissions perspective, you're actually at a disadvantage if you apply as an undergrad, in my opinion. Your essays will not show the maturity and seasoning of someone who has real work experience. If you can, get the GMAT out of the way right now and knock it out of the park -- that's much easier to take care of while you're an undergrad and your score is valid for 5 years.
From a job/recruiting perspective, you'll be fine with 1-3 years of work experience if you plan to recruit for banking or consulting. These employers are fine with the young guys (as long as they have superstar grades/scores). If you plan to recruit for private equity or Fortune 500 general management -- yes, it's better to have 4 years+ of work experience.
Harvard 2+2: Best path? (Originally Posted: 07/19/2012)
I am a (incoming) sophomore Engineering major at a well-known state school. (top 10, at least for my major).
I believe that the Harvard 2+2 would be a good fit for me, but talking to a couple of my friends who are interested in b-school, and IB, I've noticed an apparent problem.
If MBA recruiters (especially for IB, PE), recruit on the basis of what the recruit did PRE-MBA, would it be better to use my summers in college doing an engineering internship or a finance internship (or is the latter even possible for an engineering major)?
Also it seems to me that the Harvard program almost "expects" applicants to spend the 2 years pre mba working in the sector of their college major- at least, thats the most logical path, however that conflicts with hiring standards in some post mba fields.
I will definitely take some time to speak to my college's business program advisors during the year, but I'm a bit confused and I'd definitely appreciate any help.
The 2+2 program openly states on their site that the program is not intended for business majors. Rather for other majors in helping them get exposure to the business world. So with that being said, I'd say try for engineering internships.
But from what you're saying, it sounds like you're interested in IB? If that's the case you should be aiming for those finance internships. And B-school shouldn't even be on your mind right now because it wouldn't be a necessity.
Harvard 2+2 Program & TFA (Originally Posted: 10/28/2014)
Hello,
I am an Undergraduate Biology major set to graduate this May. I was thinking of getting into Medicine, but after four years, I've become disillusioned with the profession, and don't have the desire to go through 8+ more years of training. I recently found out about some graduate programs that look for science majors (UVa 1-year Comm and HBS 2+2).
I was wondering if anyone knew about the median GPA/GMAT for HBS? My GPA isn't wonderful (3.81), but I've tried my hardest to keep it up, just one annoying C+ in an Organic Chemistry II class. Also, I've been studying for the GMAT, and my practice tests have been around 680-720 range.
My main question is a bit specific...so if anyone could help me in answering it, that would be wonderful. I know HBS 2+2 requires 2 years of "work" before entering business school. However, I don't want to go into finance. Not that I never want to go into Finance, but I recently got accepted for a teaching position in Hawaii and I really want to do it. On the HBS 2+2 website it says you can do anything related to "leadership experience." Could I do Teach for America with my 2 years? Or would a finance job be much preferred?
Thank you!
http://www.hbs.edu/mba/admissions/application-process/Pages/student-app…
See the above link. In regards to your second question, you can do anything for the 2 years between undergrad and business school. Doesn't have to be finance specific -- Teach for America would set you up very well.
Your GPA is very good, especially given your STEM major. And TFA would be one of the best experiences that Harvard loves. The 2+2 program is extremely competitive, so I would try to get at least a 730. Given that you are a girl (assuming because of your username), I think you have a great chance if you can show some great leadership in extracurriculars.
To answer your question, I believe the median GMAT/GPA is 730/3.75 if you are too lazy to click Island's link.
Based on my conversations about the 2+2 program, it is very much geared toward women, and they love TFA.
Harvard 2+2 program: thoughts on program? (Originally Posted: 08/25/2008)
Any thoughts on this program? Would it be a useful experience, or do you guys think it is too early?
not too early...apply in jr year of college...work 2 years post-grad, then attend hbs. they target non-business majors though...
Would it be a useful experience?
If you think an MBA from HBS would be a useful experience, then yes...
I can imagine all of those times when a Harvard MBA would prove disadvantageous..... Kind of a stupid question....sorry
do you have to be a current Harvard student for this program?
No, anyone can apply in the summer after their junior year. Note, however, that this program targets people on a non-traditional business track (whatever that means -- this is the first year of the program, so everything is still kind of vague at this point).
More information: http://www.hbs.edu/news/releases/091307_2plus2.html
well, i don't know. I don't assume that it will be a good experience just because it is Harvard. I think it is important to be able to make the most out of it, and I am not sure if that would be the case with only 2 years of experience. That's why I'm asking. I would appreciate to hear experiences of people who have been to business school.
Do they acccept non-women or non-minorities?
Someone knowledgeable about HBS admissions procedure:
I had heard (or possibly read on another thread) that you are unlikely to be admitted to HBS if previously rejected (this was in the context of someone considering applying late (e.g. third round of admission when there are apparently few spots left] and people were telling him/ her that he/she would be better off waiting for the following year). If it is in fact the case that the HBS 2+2 program targets non-business majors (from what I had heard, they frequently look to entrepreneurs and the like) then as a finance major going into finance, would I (and others in my shoes) be better off waiting to apply through normal routes, rather than applying now and risking rejection (e.g. would rejection now negatively impact my chances later)?
The FAQ for 2+2 specifically states rejection won't harm your admission chances. HBS does look unfavorably on reapplicants UNLESS they applied for 2+2 or as college seniors. In those two situations, they would encourage you to reapply
anyone else applying this year to this program?
deadline was yesterday.
Yup, I submitted it yesterday.
I'm still wondering if it is worth the almost $200,000 investment(including living expenses) to do an MBA, especially after this whole crisis. Especially considering I am an international student. There is no way I can pay back those loans if I can't get a job in the US that will pay 100K+. Did anyone have an experience like that?
That's a tough decision you need to make. Remember you can't take out the entire loan amount in the US. You probably will have to take out a good chunk of the loan in your country of origination. The rates on foreign loans especially in certain EM countries can be a lot higher. If you can save up some good money in the next few years, you could probably pull it off.
Harvard 2+2 Program. (Originally Posted: 12/26/2009)
Anyone familiar with this? Highly competitive and mainly for those without a business background (science majors and engineering). Did any of you apply?
I'm thinking about it but it seems to me like it's only worth it if you are absolutely positive that you want to go get an MBA after working for only two years. So I probably won't apply
Yeah, only if you're 100% certain that you will go for MBA after 2 years of experience. That assumes a lot of uncertainties though. (job, recurring summer visits to HBS, etc)
Couldn't you just decline later on down the road if you decided you didn't want to get your MBA at that time anyway?
But you would have to apply as a Senior, which is very hard to do.
I'm pretty sure you apply at end of your junior year actually.. so it takes a lot of planning to have your recs and GMAT done by that point. I know a few people that got in. Top grades and proofs of interest in business (ie. not just by taking a class). Not sure what they're doing after graduation but hey, at least they are set 2 years down the line.
Can you actually decline/rescind? What would be the consequences if you do?
I always thought business experience was what they weren't looking for. (for 2+2)
Quite honestly, the kids I do know that applied and got in really surprised me. I'm from a top target and they took around 8-10 people, none of which really stood out either academically or extracurricularly. Makes me question whether MBA, especially there, is the path for me.
2+2 is a rather interesting program that was created to 1) get more younger HBS students, and 2) go after non-traditional applicants. The people who get into 2+2 in general are engineers or have other non-traditional backgrounds. There's actually a bias AGAINST the typical econ/finance major banker/consultant. Also, I don't think it's particularly selective, especially compared to regular HBS admissions. Most of the people from my school who were accepted are not particularly special. That being said, it's a great way to get into HBS early, but the caveat is that you can only work for 2 years, which is dangerous if you want to go into PE long-term, for example.
Can second the above 2 posters' opinion based on personal experience. A friend from my department got accepted, and she couldn't get a job for love nor money.
That said, the hbs.edu/mba/profiles/classprofile_2+2.html">statistics
for the class of 2014 do seem impressive.
Agreed. It's true that the people they took were were not from traditional econ/finance/business backgrounds (though some were), but so far many of these people went through IB/ST/consulting interviews and still don't have jobs (only know of one 2+2 accept who does have a job). If it was so easy to get it, I kind of wish I'd known about it to apply.
Is this a bad program to apply for if you think you want to go into PE?
I'd like to re-raise the question of what the consequences might be if you end up blowing them off 2 years later?
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