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12/17/10

In my opinion, the firing of Larry Summers by the politically correct liberals, was a disgraceful moment for the world's greatest university.

President Drew Faust seems to be bent on fully implementing her politically correct agenda. She recently hired Nohria as the dean of Harvard Business, who explicitly said that he wants the school to accept more women, minorities, and internationals. For those of you who read GMAT club forum or follow HBS Guru, the big PE firms got absolutely destroyed in round 1 admission at HBS this year. Firms like Blackstone, KKR, and Carlyle, which usually sends 90%+ of their pre-MBA associates to HBS did dismally. The number i heard for blackstone is that they went 0 for 4.

I totally appreciate the need to have students from different backgrounds. Business school will be awfully boring if everyone came from a banking/PE background. Nonetheless, I have a major problem when a school accepts people from certain demographics just for the sake of diversity. Once again white and asian men continue to get shafted by the liberals who are obsessed with multiculturalism and making minorities feel better about themselves.

Harvard will remain the greatest school in the world, the standard by which every other school is judged. It is sad though to see this rampant pc agenda.

Comments (135)

12/17/10

More Women ? Want
More minorities and internationals ? Do not Want

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12/17/10

Harvard has a great product, but Wharton, Booth, and Columbia will just capitalize on this. Social engineering will fail.

12/17/10

Are we really feeling sorry for Larry Summers?

Just checking.

12/17/10

This new dean is totally missing the point of business school. I hope the alumni can exert some pressure to change this.

--Meliora sequimur

12/17/10

political correctness=positive discrimination

positive discrimination=reverse racism/sexism/xenophobia, etc

reverse/racism/sexism/xenophobia, etc=racism, sexism, xenophobia, etc

12/17/10

Truer words were never spoken Midas. SB.

"Greed, in all of its forms; greed for life, for money, for love, for knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind. And greed, you mark my words, will not only save Teldar Paper, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA."

12/17/10
In reply to Midas Mulligan Magoo
12/17/10
Midas Mulligan Magoo:

political correctness=positive discrimination

positive discrimination=reverse racism/sexism/xenophobia, etc

reverse/racism/sexism/xenophobia, etc=racism, sexism, xenophobia, etc

Exactly. When liberals talk about racial and social "justice," it really means that they want to screw over whites and asians and give spots at elite schools to unqualified blacks and latinos.

12/17/10

Asian Americans are a minority in the this country. (I hate all the PC racial segregation, but Im just saying)

But no, they will be discriminated against in every step of the admissions process.

12/17/10

so following that, what about girls in PE..?

In reply to Troll
12/17/10
masterofpuppets:

Asian Americans are a minority in the this country. (I hate all the PC racial segregation, but Im just saying)

But no, they will be discriminated against in every step of the admissions process.

Exactly. Liberals only care about minorities if they're black or latino. Asians get screwed over in this country, easily the most victimized group out there.

12/17/10

I bet this new crusade doesnt help out Chinese Americans, not in the slightest, even though we are minority (heck, blacks are a majority compared to the chinese).

In reply to God of the Orient
12/17/10
Chinese Peasant:

I bet this new crusade doesnt help out Chinese Americans, not in the slightest, even though we are minority (heck, blacks are a majority compared to the chinese).

Yes, east asians, domestic or international, get screwed over. Liberals despise asians.

12/17/10

I agree 99% with the OP except on this point--Harvard will not remain the greatest school in the world--at least business school--if policies like this are implemented, remain and in fact water down the quality of candidates. Top financial, consulting and other firms will ratchet down recruiting at HBS if the quality of their candidates is diminished, e.g. less relevant experience, heavy foreign accents, VISA issues with candidates, etc.

In reply to Virginia Tech 4ever
12/17/10
Virginia Tech 4ever:

I agree 99% with the OP except on this point--Harvard will not remain the greatest school in the world--at least business school--if policies like this are implemented, remain and in fact water down the quality of candidates. Top financial, consulting and other firms will ratchet down recruiting at HBS if the quality of their candidates is diminished, e.g. less relevant experience, heavy foreign accents, VISA issues with candidates, etc.

I guess we'll wait and see. The HBS name brand is VERY powerful. I don't think them turning down some PE kids will lead to wharton or booth taking over their spot.

In reply to BigBucks
12/17/10
BigBucks:

bro who cares?

Those of us who are applying to HBS this year and are watching our likelihood of acceptance fade into the sunset.

CompBanker

12/17/10

HBS is in my opinion, a house of cards that rests too heavily on a bed of perceptions and not truth. They are still a high caliber program, but I believe their brand will diminish over time if they keep this crap up.

In reply to HerSerendipity
12/17/10
HerSerendipity:

so following that, what about girls in PE..?

I've spoken to my friends at various PE shops and everyone is getting blasted. You may have a fighting chance, but I think the ability to differentiate yourself from all the other PE folks out there is more important this year than ever before. Hope you've been doing your community service!

CompBanker

In reply to Brady4MVP
12/17/10
Brady4MVP:
Chinese Peasant:

I bet this new crusade doesnt help out Chinese Americans, not in the slightest, even though we are minority (heck, blacks are a majority compared to the chinese).

Yes, east asians, domestic or international, get screwed over. Liberals despise asians.

Does it have anything to do with Liberals' inferiority complex?

In reply to Troll
12/17/10
masterofpuppets:

Asian Americans are a minority in the this country. (I hate all the PC racial segregation, but Im just saying)

But no, they will be discriminated against in every step of the admissions process.

Asians are a minority in name only....as far as liberals are concerned they are too smart and successful to qualify for minority status.

"Greed, in all of its forms; greed for life, for money, for love, for knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind. And greed, you mark my words, will not only save Teldar Paper, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA."

In reply to Virginia Tech 4ever
12/17/10
Virginia Tech 4ever:

I agree 99% with the OP except on this point--Harvard will not remain the greatest school in the world--at least business school--if policies like this are implemented, remain and in fact water down the quality of candidates. Top financial, consulting and other firms will ratchet down recruiting at HBS if the quality of their candidates is diminished, e.g. less relevant experience, heavy foreign accents, VISA issues with candidates, etc.

In all fairness, a large portion of International MBA students are returning home to their own countries to work nowadays.

12/17/10

It's hilarious to see some of the rampant venom spewed in this thread.

Most people do things to add days to their life. I do things to add life to my days.

Browse my blog as a WSO contributing author

In reply to CompBanker
12/17/10
CompBanker:
HerSerendipity:

so following that, what about girls in PE..?

I've spoken to my friends at various PE shops and everyone is getting blasted. You may have a fighting chance, but I think the ability to differentiate yourself from all the other PE folks out there is more important this year than ever before. Hope you've been doing your community service!

Yikes. FML.

12/17/10

Just say you are black and if they give you shit sue them saying you are a fraction black or something.

12/17/10

Could you imagine the negative PR involved in fighting a case, saying someone isn't black enough to be called black lol.

In reply to TNA
12/17/10
MSFHQ:

Just say you are black and if they give you shit sue them saying you are a fraction black or something.

Lol. I know I should've changed my name to Kwame a long time ago!

In reply to Gekko21
12/17/10
Gekko21:
masterofpuppets:

Asian Americans are a minority in the this country. (I hate all the PC racial segregation, but Im just saying)

But no, they will be discriminated against in every step of the admissions process.

Asians are a minority in name only....as far as liberals are concerned they are too smart and successful to qualify for minority status.

Liberal despise those who are self-made. They believe in government handouts and affirmative action.

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12/17/10

Brady4MVP you generalize like an idiot on one of those yahoo message boards. next you'll start using the word libtard and begin to call Obama, odumba or obummer or w.e childish insults you can come up with. Enough with the liberal generalizing, it displays a lack of intelligence. If you have an issue with the policy then take issue with it, and disagree without having to resort to unnecessary stereotypes and misconceptions.

12/17/10

I wonder if it's possible to just pretend your gay on your essays to get into Harvard. Write about how hard it has been to be successful in this industry with all of the negative stereotypes towards gays.

12/17/10

I'm laughing out loud at some of these comments. You folks do realize that English is the national language in a lot of countries. International doesn't mean mumbling IT dude who never leaves his basement. Won't comment on the minority bit because people have a myopic view of the world.

In reply to BigBucks
12/17/10
BigBucks:

Brady4MVP you generalize like an idiot on one of those yahoo message boards. next you'll start using the word libtard and begin to call Obama, odumba or obummer or w.e childish insults you can come up with. Enough with the liberal generalizing, it displays a lack of intelligence. If you have an issue with the policy then take issue with it, and disagree without having to resort to unnecessary stereotypes and misconceptions.

Are you denying that most liberals support affirmative action? Are you denying that black and hispanic applicants get into elite schools with lower credentials than their white and asian counterparts? Because there's plenty of data on the latter that supports my view.

This is a very stressful time for those of us applying to top b-schools. I don't mind getting rejected if I don't pass muster, but the notion of schools turning down qualified applicants to make room for minorities is sickening and goes against any fair conception of individual merit.

In reply to Brady4MVP
12/17/10
Brady4MVP:
Gekko21:
masterofpuppets:

Asian Americans are a minority in the this country. (I hate all the PC racial segregation, but Im just saying)

But no, they will be discriminated against in every step of the admissions process.

Asians are a minority in name only....as far as liberals are concerned they are too smart and successful to qualify for minority status.

Liberal despise those who are self-made. They believe in government handouts and affirmative action.

Worst part is that most Asians and Indians still vote Democrat for the most part, despite the fact that liberals hate them because of their work ethic and self-made success.

In reply to BigBucks
12/17/10
BigBucks:

Brady4MVP you generalize like an idiot on one of those yahoo message boards. next you'll start using the word libtard and begin to call Obama, odumba or obummer or w.e childish insults you can come up with. Enough with the liberal generalizing, it displays a lack of intelligence. If you have an issue with the policy then take issue with it, and disagree without having to resort to unnecessary stereotypes and misconceptions.

What the hell are you talking about...that stereotype is spot on. I remember having a conversation with a professor a few years ago about how kids selected classes. He thought that kids with the lowest GPAs should get to pick classes first rather than a person's number of credits. I said, I thought the system was alright the way it was,but why not give it to kids with the highest GPAs who work the hardest....he's response. "The dumb kids need more help"

Liberals discount success, but make excuses about failure.

Also, its liberal who made up the term "teabagger"...conservatives like to use the term socialist or communist...all of which are real words and do more to describe his policies. I don't know many libertarians or conservatives, if any, who are malicious enough to call people names without commenting on their policies-----leave that to the liberals.

I used to be the person who generally disregarded stereotypes, but then I worked as a bartender....Not only do ethnic groups have their unique drink choices, but Jews are indeed cheap. I'm not saying it as an insult, more of a cultural fact. You have no idea how many Jewish weddings I worked where I got paid almost nothing. There was once wedding 350 Jews, 4 bartenders, 6 hours of work, one bartender made $3 in tips..........that was IT.

Irish-Italian wedding on July 4--walked away with over $300 by myself.

"Greed, in all of its forms; greed for life, for money, for love, for knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind. And greed, you mark my words, will not only save Teldar Paper, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA."

12/17/10

So as a white European... would I benefit from these changes in policy as they try to increase the number of foreign students or would me, not being part of any minority negatively overcompensate that?

12/17/10

This is going to mean more apple laptops on campus

12/17/10
In reply to Troll
12/17/10
masterofpuppets:

Asian Americans are a minority in the this country. (I hate all the PC racial segregation, but Im just saying)

But no, they will be discriminated against in every step of the admissions process.

Are you fucking shitting me? Population of Asians in the US is 4.5%. Population of Asians at Harvard is nearly 20%.
Blacks are under represented by about a third (8%vs. more representative 12%), and non-Hispanic whites are underrepresented by about a third as well (47% vs. 65% general population). Hispanics are represented proportionately.

More is good, all is better

12/17/10

Argonaut they are discriminated against, that 20% is despite not because of reverse affirmative action. If admissions was race blind asians would make up 30-40% of colleges/grad schools, if not more

In reply to Argonaut
12/17/10
Argonaut:
masterofpuppets:

Asian Americans are a minority in the this country. (I hate all the PC racial segregation, but Im just saying)

But no, they will be discriminated against in every step of the admissions process.

Are you fucking shitting me? Population of Asians in the US is 4.5%. Population of Asians at Harvard is nearly 20%.
Blacks are under represented by about a third (8%vs. more representative 12%), and non-Hispanic whites are underrepresented by about a third as well (47% vs. 65% general population). Hispanics are represented proportionately.

There aren't that many academically qualified blacks out there. Derek Bok, the former president of Harvard, said that if there were no affirmative action, there would only be a handful of blacks at Harvard undergrad.

In reply to TNA
12/17/10
MSFHQ:

Could you imagine the negative PR involved in fighting a case, saying someone isn't black enough to be called black lol.

I think the "One Drop" rule here would make it pretty tough to fight if you could find even one remote black ancestor.

12/17/10

So I'm supposed to take it as a true statement that liberals hate people for work ethic and success? Saying they support affirmative action is different from saying they hate people who work hard and become successful, for me to believe the latter would be ridiculous.

12/17/10

This is unbelievable. Considering that the KKR/Carlyle kids should have been shoo-ins even if they didn't do those 2 years in private equity (since those firms take kids with mostly top GPAs from top schools who have worked at GS/MS/McKinsey), the 0 for 4 rates in unbelievable.

12/17/10

I don't see why everyone here is complaining so much. If you're really that smart, and that dedicated, and that hard working, you're going to make it where you want to be in life, regardless of where you went to school.

The banks and private equity shops will recognize that Harvard is not producing the same caliber graduates and they will act accordingly. And if for some reason top tier firms begin to value diversity over talent, then the best and brightest will move on from financial services and stake their claim elsewhere.

This is just another example of how higher education is failing everyone; you're not special.

Fucking cry babies on this forum and in this thread in particular. Get over it.

In reply to WishYouWereHere
12/17/10
southernlovr:

This is unbelievable. Considering that the KKR/Carlyle kids should have been shoo-ins even if they didn't do those 2 years in private equity (since those firms take kids with mostly top GPAs from top schools who have worked at GS/MS/McKinsey), the 0 for 4 rates in unbelievable.

It really is unbelievable. All of my friends with TOP credentials got dinged at HBS and Stanford this week. They're all in shellshock.

Dee Leopold, the dean of admissions at HBS, said earlier this week that if they were accepting applicants based purely on credentials, the results would have been different.

12/17/10

Go apply to Wharton or Booth, who gives a shut. Do you really want to go to Harvard now that they are dilluting the punch?

The problem with this country is not AA. The issue is we have a society where people who have more options than anywhere else continue to fail and the people in power make excuses for them. I continually say it on this site, you could take an Indian kid from the streets, starving to death, missing 2 legs, an eye and 3 fingers, who speaks no english, bring them to the USA and that kid will be successful. Losers in this country can't get their act straight because the free housing we gave them wasn't up to snuff.

Whenever people accuse "white" people of racism I kindly remind them that not all white people are the same. Reverse racism is still racism.

Liberals hate people who succeed. Those that work for their money rarely enjoy seeing it stolen and given to someone else. I guess robbery is cool if you make over 50k.

In reply to restructure-this
12/17/10
restructure-this:

I'm laughing out loud at some of these comments. You folks do realize that English is the national language in a lot of countries. International doesn't mean mumbling IT dude who never leaves his basement. Won't comment on the minority bit because people have a myopic view of the world.

Yeah, it's also one of several national languages in India, too. Do you think firms are falling over themselves to hire associates who sound like they're from Mumbai rather than Minneapolis?

12/17/10

I am a European American and anyone who does not correctly call me this gets called a racist and bigot.

12/17/10

I have friends currently at top business schools who did PE stints and it's just not purely credentials. I think many of these business schools have to weigh what are the career prospects for many that enter. If they accept a class of 50% PE / finance types, lets say 400 students per year, but only have 100 job openings available for the next year, it won't make their placement numbers look so high.

Lets face it, there aren't as many finance jobs out there and especially PE jobs. B schools are changing who they're targeting as a result and that explains why a lot of these people aren't getting into business school.

Also, I find it all too common that when these students do apply it's the same story. I want to get a skill set so I can return to PE...how do you differentiate yourself from the rest of the pool even if you did do a stint at KKR? They can't take everyone from KKR, but I'm sure some got in.

I've seen back office consultants get into HBS, but are they not worthy? Not quite, they'll be successful alum just in a different role and at least their story sounds more plausible than the cookie cutter finance ones.

12/17/10

Surprised it took this long. I was thinking the same after seeing these stats posted by Sandy HBS Guru.
Nearly all the Ivy League schools are super liberal, its funny how they produce so many white-bread bankers and PE guys that ultimately become pretty conservative. I guess this is the beginning of the end of that cycle. Pretty soon Harvard and all the other Ivies will be the stomping grounds for NBA and NFL recruiters.. Perhaps NHL recruiters can go to Duke or something.

12/17/10

When I start hiring for my businesses, my job postings will state at the end: "NOT an affirmative action employer".

In reply to Virginia Tech 4ever
12/17/10
Virginia Tech 4ever:

When I start hiring for my businesses, my job postings will state at the end: "NOT an affirmative action employer".

Amen. You're a great American. This country would be so much better if people like you were in charge.

In reply to Guest1655
12/17/10
Guest1655:

Pretty soon Harvard and all the other Ivies will be the stomping grounds for NBA and NFL recruiters.. Perhaps NHL recruiters can go to Duke or something.

what?

12/17/10

lol Did any of you actually go to HBS /Stanford/ Wharton or are attending? Seriously talk about hyperbole

12/17/10

No, I did not go there.

But I know one thing: Eliminate the race-based admissions in American higher education and see the proportion of Asian-Americans(including Indians) shoot up at elite institutions in America, and the proportion of Blacks and Hispanics shoot down.

Lets the results speak for themselves.

Liberals hate Asians and Asian are still idiotic enough to vote Democrat.

P.S: Liberals hate Asians because they prove the whole notion of Liberalism wrong. You can come from dire poverty from a third world country in Asia and still do well in life through hard work. This proves that the people who are not doing well right now, can do well in the future without Gov handouts. That is anathema to Liberals.

12/17/10

differences in culture are why they succeed. Africans do great as well, I am African, u know why we do well? Our parents are on our asses every day about academics, they value it greatly, especially coming from where i'm from. The problem is when you have a single mother who is being worked to the bone she doesn't have time to instill the sense in her children to highly value academics. Asians doing well does not prove anything besides the fact that with or without handouts, parents are the most important factor in a child's life. Blacks and, to a lesser extent, hispanics, are behind the proverbial 8-ball from the moment they are born into uncaring homes.

12/17/10

Can't believe KKR went 0-4.....

Is this fact?

12/17/10

Thanks for your input. I think if you look at rich / wealth / recent immigration status you'll see trends. If you've never gone to the school and are basically taking a random article versus knowing the real policy, then it might be in your best interest not to comment on such things.

I haven't heard any of my friends, other alums or firms who actually HIRE candidates from these schools complain. And I highly doubt the original article is completely factual or taken into account the entire issue, so instead of going on a tea party rampage about something you don't quite get...pick a different topic.

12/17/10

On the other hand, Bain Cap apparently got 6/8 (+2 WL) in HBS and 3/4 in GSB, while TPG got 7/10 into HBS. BX and KKR numbers look very odd.

In reply to Brady4MVP
12/17/10
Brady4MVP:
Argonaut:
masterofpuppets:

Asian Americans are a minority in the this country. (I hate all the PC racial segregation, but Im just saying)

But no, they will be discriminated against in every step of the admissions process.

Are you fucking shitting me? Population of Asians in the US is 4.5%. Population of Asians at Harvard is nearly 20%.
Blacks are under represented by about a third (8%vs. more representative 12%), and non-Hispanic whites are underrepresented by about a third as well (47% vs. 65% general population). Hispanics are represented proportionately.

There aren't that many academically qualified blacks out there. Derek Bok, the former president of Harvard, said that if there were no affirmative action, there would only be a handful of blacks at Harvard undergrad.

Ok, so let's agree for a second that blacks are under-represented because they are not qualified. Why are then whites under-represented?

More is good, all is better

In reply to Troll
12/17/10
In reply to Brady4MVP
12/17/10

Brady4MVP:
Argonaut:
masterofpuppets:
Asian Americans are a minority in the this country. (I hate all the PC racial segregation, but Im just saying)

But no, they will be discriminated against in every step of the admissions process.

Are you fucking shitting me? Population of Asians in the US is 4.5%. Population of Asians at Harvard is nearly 20%.
Blacks are under represented by about a third (8%vs. more representative 12%), and non-Hispanic whites are underrepresented by about a third as well (47% vs. 65% general population). Hispanics are represented proportionately.

There aren't that many academically qualified blacks out there. Derek Bok, the former president of Harvard, said that if there were no affirmative action, there would only be a handful of blacks at Harvard undergrad.

No, I don't think he said THAT.

What he said was:

Although over half of the black students attending these selective schools would have been rejected under a race-neutral admissions regime -- that is, if only the same proportions of black and white students had been admitted within each SAT interval -- they have done exceedingly well after college.

AND

As a group, however, the black applicants are highly qualified. Of the black applicants at five of the 28 schools for which detailed admission data were available in 1989, over 90 percent scored above the national average for black test-takers on both the verbal and math SATs, considered separately. The large majority of these black applicants handily outscored not only the average black test-taker, but also the average white test-taker. Moreover, the average SAT score for black matriculants in 1989 was slightly higher than the average SAT score for all matriculants in 1951.

And his general sentiment is that "affirmative action" has been actually very successful:

Indeed, the data in our study prove what I have observed for years through experience -- that diversity is valued and that "learning through diversity" actually occurs. Our study indicates that diversity is a benefit for all students, minorities and nonminorities alike. Moreover, the data overwhelmingly demonstrate that minority students admitted to selective schools had strong academic credentials, graduated in large numbers and did very well after leaving college. By every measure of success graduation, attainment of professional degrees, employment, earnings, civic participation, and overall satisfaction), the more selective the school, the more blacks achieved (holding constant their initial test scores and grades).

Moreover, his definition of "merit" is very different from yours:

Our findings also clarify the much misunderstood concept of merit in college admission. Many people suppose that all students with especially high grades and test scores "deserve" to be admitted and that it is unfair to reject them in favor of minority applicants with lower grades and test scores. But selective colleges do not automatically offer admission as a reward for past performance to anyone. Nor should they. For any institution, choosing fairly, "on the merits," means selecting applicants by criteria that are reasonably related to the purposes of the organization. For colleges and universities, this means choosing academically qualified applicants who not only give promise of doing well academically, but who also can enlarge the understanding of other students and contribute after graduation to their professions and communities. Though clearly relevant, grades and test scores are by no means all that matter.
Past performance does not guarantee future results :)

Source: http://www.vpcomm.umich.edu/admissions/legal/exper...

More is good, all is better

In reply to WishYouWereHere
12/17/10

southernlovr:
Argonaut they are discriminated against, that 20% is despite not because of reverse affirmative action. If admissions was race blind asians would make up 30-40% of colleges/grad schools, if not more

So let's analyze this statement.
Assumption 1. Asians are over-represented due to their intellectual superiority
Assumption 2. Merit-wise they are under-represented by about 50% (20% vs. 40% that they *should get*)
Fact 1. Asians are over-represented by 300% (that is 4 times their share in the population)
Fact 2. Whites are under-represented by 30% (that is 2/3 of the share of the population)

Conclusion 1 (incorporating only the Assumption 1): Asians, as a population, are 6 times smarter than whites [4/(2/3)]
Conclusion 2 (incorporating both assumptions): Asians, as a population, are TWELVE times as smart as whites.

You know what, maybe there's some truth to that. Maybe Asians are smarter than everyone. I mean you got white people rallying on behalf of "poor oppressed" asians, trying to knock blacks and latinos for measly couple of % here and there, all meanwhile if the 15% by which asians are over-represented could be re-distributed to other races, it could either *completely* close the under-representation gap for blacks and *significantly even out the disparity for whites as well - from (47%/65% = 72%) to (58%/65% = 89%), OR give the blacks 1%, thus increasing their representation by about 12% (1% / 8%) and keeping them happy, and close the gap for whites - in either of cases having a more balanced representation of races, which would actually lead to phasing out of Affirmative Action and similar programs.

More is good, all is better

12/17/10

I am a white south african, been living in America for about 10 years... any way this can help me in MBA apps?

12/17/10

In my opinion, Summers needed to go, but not because of his comments regarding women. Rather, his cover-up for the criminal Andrei Shleifer.

Long story short, Schleifer conducted massive insider trading while advising the Russian government. Courts ruled that Harvard was not liable, but that Schleifer was liable for up to $100 million+ if convicted. In stead, Summers worked out a deal where Harvard paid approx $27 million and Schliefer got away with a slap on the wrist ($2 million)....Summers was good friends with Schleifer, of course...

They did strip him of his honorary title, at least...

Also, I agree the PC bullshit and the anti-finance bullshit needs to stop...

In reply to Gekko21
12/17/10
Gekko21:

What the hell are you talking about...that stereotype is spot on.

You must be the arbiter of stereotypes and their accuracy.

I am not cocky, I am confident, and when you tell me I am the best it is a compliment.
-Styles P

12/17/10
In reply to eokpar02
12/17/10
eokpar02:
Gekko21:

What the hell are you talking about...that stereotype is spot on.

You must be the arbiter of stereotypes and their accuracy.

Yea because you never make any 'unsubstantiated' claims based on personal experience...

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

In reply to happypantsmcgee
12/17/10
happypantsmcgee:
eokpar02:
Gekko21:

What the hell are you talking about...that stereotype is spot on.

You must be the arbiter of stereotypes and their accuracy.

Yea because you never make any 'unsubstantiated' claims based on personal experience...

Really, please name these ""unsubstantiated"" claims. If there were any I would think you would have augmented your original post with them.

I am not cocky, I am confident, and when you tell me I am the best it is a compliment.
-Styles P

In reply to eokpar02
12/17/10
eokpar02:
happypantsmcgee:
eokpar02:
Gekko21:

What the hell are you talking about...that stereotype is spot on.

You must be the arbiter of stereotypes and their accuracy.

Yea because you never make any 'unsubstantiated' claims based on personal experience...

Really, please name these ""unsubstantiated"" claims. If there were any I would think you would have augmented your original post with them.

No, I think your reputation here is pretty established and to that end, I see no reason to prove my point with any additional 'augmentation'.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

In reply to happypantsmcgee
12/17/10
happypantsmcgee:
eokpar02:
happypantsmcgee:
eokpar02:
Gekko21:

What the hell are you talking about...that stereotype is spot on.

You must be the arbiter of stereotypes and their accuracy.

Yea because you never make any 'unsubstantiated' claims based on personal experience...

Really, please name these ""unsubstantiated"" claims. If there were any I would think you would have augmented your original post with them.

No, I think your reputation here is pretty established and to that end, I see no reason to prove my point with any additional 'augmentation'.

Whatever, you might as well STFU if you don't want to defend your statements.

I am not cocky, I am confident, and when you tell me I am the best it is a compliment.
-Styles P

In reply to Argonaut
12/17/10
Argonaut:
southernlovr:

Argonaut they are discriminated against, that 20% is despite not because of reverse affirmative action. If admissions was race blind asians would make up 30-40% of colleges/grad schools, if not more

So let's analyze this statement.
Assumption 1. Asians are over-represented due to their intellectual superiority
Assumption 2. Merit-wise they are under-represented by about 50% (20% vs. 40% that they *should get*)
Fact 1. Asians are over-represented by 300% (that is 4 times their share in the population)
Fact 2. Whites are under-represented by 30% (that is 2/3 of the share of the population)

Conclusion 1 (incorporating only the Assumption 1): Asians, as a population, are 6 times smarter than whites [4/(2/3)]
Conclusion 2 (incorporating both assumptions): Asians, as a population, are TWELVE times as smart as whites.

You know what, maybe there's some truth to that. Maybe Asians are smarter than everyone. I mean you got white people rallying on behalf of "poor oppressed" asians, trying to knock blacks and latinos for measly couple of % here and there, all meanwhile if the 15% by which asians are over-represented could be re-distributed to other races, it could either *completely* close the under-representation gap for blacks and *significantly even out the disparity for whites as well - from (47%/65% = 72%) to (58%/65% = 89%), OR give the blacks 1%, thus increasing their representation by about 12% (1% / 8%) and keeping them happy, and close the gap for whites - in either of cases having a more balanced representation of races, which would actually lead to phasing out of Affirmative Action and similar programs.

Great post.

I am not cocky, I am confident, and when you tell me I am the best it is a compliment.
-Styles P

In reply to eokpar02
12/17/10
eokpar02:
Argonaut:
southernlovr:

Argonaut they are discriminated against, that 20% is despite not because of reverse affirmative action. If admissions was race blind asians would make up 30-40% of colleges/grad schools, if not more

So let's analyze this statement.
Assumption 1. Asians are over-represented due to their intellectual superiority
Assumption 2. Merit-wise they are under-represented by about 50% (20% vs. 40% that they *should get*)
Fact 1. Asians are over-represented by 300% (that is 4 times their share in the population)
Fact 2. Whites are under-represented by 30% (that is 2/3 of the share of the population)

Conclusion 1 (incorporating only the Assumption 1): Asians, as a population, are 6 times smarter than whites [4/(2/3)]
Conclusion 2 (incorporating both assumptions): Asians, as a population, are TWELVE times as smart as whites.

You know what, maybe there's some truth to that. Maybe Asians are smarter than everyone. I mean you got white people rallying on behalf of "poor oppressed" asians, trying to knock blacks and latinos for measly couple of % here and there, all meanwhile if the 15% by which asians are over-represented could be re-distributed to other races, it could either *completely* close the under-representation gap for blacks and *significantly even out the disparity for whites as well - from (47%/65% = 72%) to (58%/65% = 89%), OR give the blacks 1%, thus increasing their representation by about 12% (1% / 8%) and keeping them happy, and close the gap for whites - in either of cases having a more balanced representation of races, which would actually lead to phasing out of Affirmative Action and similar programs.

Great post.

Are you serious? You can't arithmetically extrapolate figures the way he did. Utterly nonsensical post.

http://ayainsight.co/ Curating the best advice and making it actionable.

12/17/10

I'm Asian and white. Am I double fucked?

In reply to Status_Quo
12/17/10
Stratus:
eokpar02:
Argonaut:
southernlovr:

Argonaut they are discriminated against, that 20% is despite not because of reverse affirmative action. If admissions was race blind asians would make up 30-40% of colleges/grad schools, if not more

So let's analyze this statement.
Assumption 1. Asians are over-represented due to their intellectual superiority
Assumption 2. Merit-wise they are under-represented by about 50% (20% vs. 40% that they *should get*)
Fact 1. Asians are over-represented by 300% (that is 4 times their share in the population)
Fact 2. Whites are under-represented by 30% (that is 2/3 of the share of the population)

Conclusion 1 (incorporating only the Assumption 1): Asians, as a population, are 6 times smarter than whites [4/(2/3)]
Conclusion 2 (incorporating both assumptions): Asians, as a population, are TWELVE times as smart as whites.

You know what, maybe there's some truth to that. Maybe Asians are smarter than everyone. I mean you got white people rallying on behalf of "poor oppressed" asians, trying to knock blacks and latinos for measly couple of % here and there, all meanwhile if the 15% by which asians are over-represented could be re-distributed to other races, it could either *completely* close the under-representation gap for blacks and *significantly even out the disparity for whites as well - from (47%/65% = 72%) to (58%/65% = 89%), OR give the blacks 1%, thus increasing their representation by about 12% (1% / 8%) and keeping them happy, and close the gap for whites - in either of cases having a more balanced representation of races, which would actually lead to phasing out of Affirmative Action and similar programs.

Great post.

Are you serious? You can't arithmetically extrapolate figures the way he did. Utterly nonsensical post.

Please, show me the error of my ways, o wise one!

More is good, all is better

In reply to Brady4MVP
12/17/10
Brady4MVP:
Argonaut:
masterofpuppets:

Asian Americans are a minority in the this country. (I hate all the PC racial segregation, but Im just saying)

But no, they will be discriminated against in every step of the admissions process.

Are you fucking shitting me? Population of Asians in the US is 4.5%. Population of Asians at Harvard is nearly 20%.
Blacks are under represented by about a third (8%vs. more representative 12%), and non-Hispanic whites are underrepresented by about a third as well (47% vs. 65% general population). Hispanics are represented proportionately.

There aren't that many academically qualified blacks out there. Derek Bok, the former president of Harvard, said that if there were no affirmative action, there would only be a handful of blacks at Harvard undergrad.

What does that mean? What metric are you using? What is academically qualified? All the metrics that are used are jokes. I improved my SAT score by 500 points by self studying. Not everyone has that opportunity. And Ivy League schools are easy; I don't think a 2300 SAT scorer is better at political science than someone with a 2000.

There are people with perfect scores who get rejected and Asians and Whites with 2100s who get accepted. Should these whites and Asians give up their position? Of course not.

I love how people love to pick on black college students at good schools put pay no mind to legacies who on average receive an SAT boost of 135 points. 1/4th of everyone at Harvard has SAT scores below 2080/1300; even if every black person was below the average a significant portion of the white people would be too.

I am not cocky, I am confident, and when you tell me I am the best it is a compliment.
-Styles P

12/17/10

http://www.jbhe.com/latest/index093010.html#harvard

"This year, Harvard accepted only 8.3 percent of its black applicants. This is only a slightly higher rate than for applicants as a whole.

There are 155 black first-year students at Harvard this fall. They make up 9.3 percent of all Harvard freshmen. "

So in others words, a higher percentage of black applicants are accepted than white/asian/hispanics. Admissions in 2010 (for class of 2014) was 6.9% overall. So

.069 = .083*.093+x*(1-.083), where x is the admission rate of non-black applicants.

x works out to 6.68%. So 8.3% vs 6.68%, that's a 24% higher chance of admission. If you adjust for quantitative metrics such as GPA/SAT (which are usually lower for black applications), and compare only to whites/asians, this bonus for being black is assuredly much, much higher.

In reply to absinthe
12/17/10
absinthe:

http://www.jbhe.com/latest/index093010.html#harvard

"This year, Harvard accepted only 8.3 percent of its black applicants. This is only a slightly higher rate than for applicants as a whole.

There are 155 black first-year students at Harvard this fall. They make up 9.3 percent of all Harvard freshmen. "

So in others words, a higher percentage of black applicants are accepted than white/asian/hispanics. Admissions in 2010 (for class of 2014) was 6.9% overall. So

.069 = .083*.093+x*(1-.083), where x is the admission rate of non-black applicants.

x works out to 6.68%. So 8.3% vs 6.68%, that's a 24% higher chance of admission. If you adjust for quantitative metrics such as GPA/SAT (which are usually lower for black applications), and compare only to whites/asians, this bonus for being black is assuredly much, much higher.

No one is saying that blacks don't have lower SAT scores (I don't know how you can compare GPAs from school to school); people are just saying that the metrics themselves are garbage. Increases of 700 points on the SAT are uncommon. Look at the Harvard Scammer Adam Wheeler, he pulled off a 4.0 at Harvard and he got a 1220. The SAT doesn't measure anything.

I literally moved from being in the 50th percentile to the 10th percentile; how could the SAT be a good metric for anything? Even Harvard says the metrics are garbage. People with perfect scores get rejected. Should whites and Asians with 2100s immediately abdicate their position in their class to accommodate whites and Asians who were rejected with perfect scores?

I am not cocky, I am confident, and when you tell me I am the best it is a compliment.
-Styles P

In reply to eokpar02
12/17/10
eokpar02:

Look at the Harvard Scammer Adam Wheeler, he pulled off a 4.0 at Harvard and he got a 1220. The SAT doesn't measure anything.

Maybe SAT measures a lot, and GPA measures nothing. :P

12/17/10

I think the issue is we are focusing on race and not situation. People from the ghetto probably have lower SAT's because they have shittier teachers. Those people are not always black. Giving blacks a leg up just helps higher income blacks.

Instead of race stats, I want to see socio economic stats. If Harvard is letting in more wealthy black kids it isn't doing shit for diversity.

In reply to absinthe
12/17/10
absinthe:

In my opinion, Summers needed to go, but not because of his comments regarding women. Rather, his cover-up for the criminal Andrei Shleifer.

Long story short, Schleifer conducted massive insider trading while advising the Russian government. Courts ruled that Harvard was not liable, but that Schleifer was liable for up to $100 million+ if convicted. In stead, Summers worked out a deal where Harvard paid approx $27 million and Schliefer got away with a slap on the wrist ($2 million)....Summers was good friends with Schleifer, of course...

They did strip him of his honorary title, at least...

Also, I agree the PC bullshit and the anti-finance bullshit needs to stop...

SILVER BANANA FOR YOU!!! Summers and Schleifer fucked Russia. My wife and I (former Moscovites) nearly died when we heard that Obama appointed him for economic advice. He is a criminal and deserves to rot in Lubyanka. While he and Schliefer didn't ruin Russia, they took a country is its infancy and in the name of "constructing an emerging capital market", lied, cheated and stole every last ruble (and taxpayer dollars as well) and covered it up.
http://janinewedel.info/harvardinvestigative_InstI...

In reply to NewMountain
12/17/10
NewMountain:
absinthe:

In my opinion, Summers needed to go, but not because of his comments regarding women. Rather, his cover-up for the criminal Andrei Shleifer.

Long story short, Schleifer conducted massive insider trading while advising the Russian government. Courts ruled that Harvard was not liable, but that Schleifer was liable for up to $100 million+ if convicted. In stead, Summers worked out a deal where Harvard paid approx $27 million and Schliefer got away with a slap on the wrist ($2 million)....Summers was good friends with Schleifer, of course...

They did strip him of his honorary title, at least...

Also, I agree the PC bullshit and the anti-finance bullshit needs to stop...

SILVER BANANA FOR YOU!!! Summers and Schleifer fucked Russia. My wife and I (former Moscovites) nearly died when we heard that Obama appointed him for economic advice. He is a criminal and deserves to rot in Lubyanka. While he and Schliefer didn't ruin Russia, they took a country is its infancy and in the name of "constructing an emerging capital market", lied, cheated and stole every last ruble (and taxpayer dollars as well) and covered it up.
http://janinewedel.info/harvardinvestigative_InstI...

Thanks

I am not cocky, I am confident, and when you tell me I am the best it is a compliment.
-Styles P

12/18/10

Completely agree with MSFHQ,

All the current arguments for affirmative action apply just as well if not better to issues of socio-economics. Cut race out entirely from the equation.

It all comes down to concepts of fairness. We are brought up to know that discrimination is wrong and treatment of people based on skin color/orientation etc is wrong ( well us younger guys to a certain extent the old timers certainly didn't learn it as much). Therefore, when we see preferential treatment, especially treatment that impedes our avenues to success, it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone that we are pissed off.

As MSFHQ said, cut out the race and everybody wins

In reply to absinthe
12/18/10
absinthe:
eokpar02:

Look at the Harvard Scammer Adam Wheeler, he pulled off a 4.0 at Harvard and he got a 1220. The SAT doesn't measure anything.

Maybe SAT measures a lot, and GPA measures nothing. :P

Your statement is a tad bit too profound; could you expand on that dear sir? Are you saying a GPA at Harvard isn't worth anything?

I am not cocky, I am confident, and when you tell me I am the best it is a compliment.
-Styles P

In reply to absinthe
12/18/10
absinthe:

http://www.jbhe.com/latest/index093010.html#harvard

"This year, Harvard accepted only 8.3 percent of its black applicants. This is only a slightly higher rate than for applicants as a whole.

There are 155 black first-year students at Harvard this fall. They make up 9.3 percent of all Harvard freshmen. "

So in others words, a higher percentage of black applicants are accepted than white/asian/hispanics. Admissions in 2010 (for class of 2014) was 6.9% overall. So

.069 = .083*.093+x*(1-.083), where x is the admission rate of non-black applicants.

x works out to 6.68%. So 8.3% vs 6.68%, that's a 24% higher chance of admission. If you adjust for quantitative metrics such as GPA/SAT (which are usually lower for black applications), and compare only to whites/asians, this bonus for being black is assuredly much, much higher.

you forgot to also quote this part:

The numbers released by Harvard this year show that acceptance rates for black and white students are almost identical.

So it would mean that a higher percentage of white AND black *applicants* (2 most under-represented accepted groups, in relation to their prevalence in the general population) is being accepted, which in turn means that some *OTHER* group is applying at a rate much higher than all other applicants (in proportion to its representation in general population).

I WONDER WHICH GROUP WOULD THAT BE?....

More is good, all is better

In reply to TNA
12/18/10
MSFHQ:

I think the issue is we are focusing on race and not situation. People from the ghetto probably have lower SAT's because they have shittier teachers. Those people are not always black. Giving blacks a leg up just helps higher income blacks.

Instead of race stats, I want to see socio economic stats. If Harvard is letting in more wealthy black kids it isn't doing shit for diversity.

Good point about the socio-economic status.

More is good, all is better

In reply to NewMountain
12/18/10

Too late to clean up previous post. So much for edit.

12/18/10

Score Reports
Significant regional differences in terms of the average number of score reports sent per examinee are observed in the GMAT student pipeline. As a consequence, some citizen groups sent a greater number of score reports relative to others, despite having taken comparatively fewer exams.
Figure 2 shows the average number of score reports sent per examinee in TY 2005 and TY 2009. On average, citizens of Central and South Asia sent the greatest number of score reports in TY 2009 with 4.3 per examinee. At the other end of the spectrum, Western European examinees sent an average of only 2.1 score reports per examinee.

page 8 of http://www.gmac.com/NR/rdonlyres/D42E1C3C-DB8D-4C1...

Breakdown of Asian Countries:

http://www.gmac.com/NR/rdonlyres/CB3A83E9-521F-450... (also page 8)

More is good, all is better

12/18/10
12/18/10

I don't understand why race should have anything to do with anything.

If you think somebody has the smarts and potential to give your school a good name, let em in. If not, don't.

Accepting minorities just because they're minorities seems like, as others have said, you're just gonna dilute the quality of your school.

However, I'm pretty sure every single person on this website isn't running a program as prestigious as HBS and doesn't understand the pressures put on them to be politically correct. I'm not saying I do either, but if somebody's making stupid decisions like this, there's probably quite a bit. Either way, whoever's putting this pressure on them should stop.

If your dreams don't scare you, then they are not big enough.

"There are two types of people in this world: People who say they pee in the shower, and dirty fucking liars."-Louis C.K.

In reply to Barcadia
12/18/10
Barcadia:

I am a white south african, been living in America for about 10 years... any way this can help me in MBA apps?

The Affirmative Action in higher education in America is so stupid, that YES: In their eyes, you are an African American. Play the game to your advantage now.

I know a guy who immigrated from Egypt and got into an Ivy because he is "African."

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